Post by: rosscrazyelk on June 12, 2014, 09:03:51 PM
I cannot promise I can devote a ton of time since I have my own tag to worry about but I would like to help in anyway I can.
Post by: brianb231 on June 12, 2014, 09:11:28 PM
Post by: swanny on June 13, 2014, 12:25:09 PM
Post by: kentrek on June 13, 2014, 12:30:11 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on June 13, 2014, 12:40:28 PM
Thank you for the offer!!! :tup: :tup: I am jacked to have drawn this tag :IBCOOL: My hunting partner Brian B will be my caller and my cousin, Throphyhunt will be helping me scout and learn the area. He knows it well and I am excited to have him along!!
With that said, I am up for any help, ideas, thoughts, suggestions, etc.. that I can get! I have spent the last 25 years or so hunting the Peaches area, so right now my knowledge of the White River needs work.
I live in Sumner and hope to get out and start learning the area soon including placing several trail cams to try and locate a good bull.
Thanks again for the offer! I look forward to talking with you. :tup: :tup:
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2014, 12:47:01 PM
Post by: gutsnthegrass on June 13, 2014, 02:13:15 PM
Post by: notellumcreek on June 13, 2014, 02:25:53 PM
Post by: kentrek on June 13, 2014, 02:34:23 PM
Post by: deltaops on June 13, 2014, 02:41:07 PM
Post by: notellumcreek on June 13, 2014, 02:42:38 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2014, 03:06:15 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on June 13, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
Hey Ross,I live in sumner...trophy knows were I live. . I will kick your butt by the way trophy. Lol
Thank you for the offer!!! :tup: :tup: I am jacked to have drawn this tag :IBCOOL: My hunting partner Brian B will be my caller and my cousin, Throphyhunt will be helping me scout and learn the area. He knows it well and I am excited to have him along!!
With that said, I am up for any help, ideas, thoughts, suggestions, etc.. that I can get! I have spent the last 25 years or so hunting the Peaches area, so right now my knowledge of the White River needs work.
I live in Sumner and hope to get out and start learning the area soon including placing several trail cams to try and locate a good bull.
Thanks again for the offer! I look forward to talking with you. :tup: :tup:
Should not be to hard to bs sometime
Post by: notellumcreek on June 13, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
You guys are awesome, once again these members show there are still kick azz people in this state! Notellumcreek, you calling me an old fart!! :chuckle:
Haha not quite, I am just saying with me at 25 years young I am sure most of you guys are older than that, but not necessarily an "old fart" :chuckle:
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2014, 03:35:18 PM
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Post by: notellumcreek on June 13, 2014, 04:22:18 PM
Oh I'm old, 45 in a month. I remember being 25 and hiking all over that unit, especially the back country. At 25 do everything you can. It goes fast
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If only I had the same hunting regulations to follow up here as you did when you were 25 :chuckle: I would be all over the place!
Post by: daybreak on June 13, 2014, 08:49:42 PM
Post by: Tbar on June 17, 2014, 08:14:01 PM
Post by: YoterHunter on June 17, 2014, 08:53:41 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on June 18, 2014, 06:30:29 AM
I think I mentioned before that I am an archery hunter by heart. In fact, I have not ever even shot a muzzy. I am curious what you guys think about me just using my bow? I am solid at 60yrds or less and try to shoot at least 3-4 days a week, so my confidence level with my bow is high. Having the muzzy tag now opens up other options, but also brings about potential hurdles - mostly, how long will it take me to be confident shooting it and once I am, what will be my effective range? 80 yards ?? 100 yards ?? :dunno: Additionally, I want to spend my time focused on scouting the area and continuing to get in shape.
So, is the additional time and effort worth the additional 20 - 40 yard increase in range?
Last question (for now :chuckle: ), I will have two great callers / helpers with me. Will the bulls come into archery range Oct 4-10 like they do during the archery season?
Thanks for your input! :tup:
Brian C.
Post by: Harbor_hunter on June 18, 2014, 07:32:23 AM
Post by: tgray on June 18, 2014, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on June 18, 2014, 03:10:20 PM
I was told by WDFW that you can not use a bow with a muzzle loader special permit, general season is ok to do so. Don't understand why it would be like this but it's what they said. If I was you I would call to make sure.I would call too because to my knowledge you can use a lesser weapon per said season. Archery for muzzy and modern and archery and muzzy in a modern . If that makes sense
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2014, 03:19:17 PM
Post by: Tbar on June 18, 2014, 03:28:32 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on June 18, 2014, 03:47:26 PM
Just talked to enforcement, using lesser weapons is only legal if you have a modern firearm tag. It does not apply to muzzy tags!!
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Well, I guess that settles it ... time to start working on the Muzzy!! :tup:
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 04:04:52 PM
Just talked to enforcement, using lesser weapons is only legal if you have a modern firearm tag. It does not apply to muzzy tags!!
I'm 99% sure that is wrong. Look in the reg's, page 48, upper left. It's in blue. You can't always believe law enforcement. They often don't know the laws they are supposed to enforce.
I would use a bow if you want. Without even asking anybody else. It's plainly spelled out in the law that you can do so.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2014, 04:14:34 PM
Post by: deltaops on June 18, 2014, 04:21:31 PM
Hunting Method:
Muzzleloader tag holders can hunt only
during the muzzleloader seasons and
must hunt with muzzleloader or archery
equipment. Hunting equipment must
meet regulations on page 78-79.
ELK SPECIAL PERMITS:
Notes: You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag. Hunters can expect lower than average hunter densities, greater potential for success, or good hunt timing during these hunts.
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 04:36:19 PM
It's 100% clear what it means, luckily. Often that's not the case, but this time, there should be no doubt about it.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2014, 04:43:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 04:52:24 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on June 18, 2014, 04:58:46 PM
Just talked to enforcement, using lesser weapons is only legal if you have a modern firearm tag. It does not apply to muzzy tags!!
I'm 99% sure that is wrong. Look in the reg's, page 48, upper left. It's in blue. You can't always believe law enforcement. They often don't know the laws they are supposed to enforce.
I would use a bow if you want. Without even asking anybody else. It's plainly spelled out in the law that you can do so.
I agree that the advice would be wrong for a general season. I am not so sure about a permit.
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 05:08:33 PM
Besides, like I already said, it plainly says in the reg's that it's legal. (Look at page 48 ) If you read it differently, you're drastically overthinking this. Again, WHY would it be that way?
Post by: billythekidrock on June 18, 2014, 05:16:20 PM
Why would the legal methods for a tag not be the same for a general season or a permit season? That makes no sense. None. A bow would be a handicap over using a muzzleloader. They changed the law a couple of years ago to allow the use of a bow with a muzzleloader tag. I can't believe there's even a question about this. With a modern tag and a special permit hunt, you can still use a bow.
Besides, like I already said, it plainly says in the reg's that it's legal. (Look at page 48 ) If you read it differently, you're drastically overthinking this. Again, WHY would it be that way?
I agree with everything above, BUT I would be worried that enforcement would take it too literal.
Post by: grundy53 on June 18, 2014, 05:42:30 PM
Why would the legal methods for a tag not be the same for a general season or a permit season? That makes no sense. None. A bow would be a handicap over using a muzzleloader. They changed the law a couple of years ago to allow the use of a bow with a muzzleloader tag. I can't believe there's even a question about this. With a modern tag and a special permit hunt, you can still use a bow.
Besides, like I already said, it plainly says in the reg's that it's legal. (Look at page 48 ) If you read it differently, you're drastically overthinking this. Again, WHY would it be that way?
:yeah: I read it the same way :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on June 18, 2014, 05:53:06 PM
I don't read it that way. Archery IS in compliance with the muzzleloader tag.+1
Post by: arrowflinger on June 18, 2014, 05:55:44 PM
+2I don't read it that way. Archery IS in compliance with the muzzleloader tag.+1
Post by: bigtex on June 18, 2014, 06:08:35 PM
Here's the answer.
Yes, you can use a lesser weapon for general season, BUT NOT for special permit seasons. You must use the actual weapon that was issued for the permit. So if I am hunting the general rifle elk season I can use a rifle, bow, or muzzleloader. But if I am hunting the White River sept 22-26 rifle special permit tag I can ONLY use a rifle.
Lets look at how the WAC's are written:
WAC 232-28-358 general elk season: for rifle
Hunting Method: May use modern firearm, bow and arrow, or muzzleloader, but only during modern firearm seasons.
WAC 232-28-360 special elk tags
Hunters drawn for a special permit hunt must comply with weapon restrictions, dates, and other conditions listed for the hunt.
So realistically if you were hunting in a regular season rifle any bull unit but had a rifle cow tag you could legally shoot the bull with a bow, but it would be unlawful to shoot the cow with a bow.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2014, 06:19:38 PM
So who's ready to be mad at WDFW for bad regs???:chuckle: kneel suckers!!!
Here's the answer.
Yes, you can use a lesser weapon for general season, BUT NOT for special permit seasons. You must use the actual weapon that was issued for the permit. So if I am hunting the general rifle elk season I can use a rifle, bow, or muzzleloader. But if I am hunting the White River sept 22-26 rifle special permit tag I can ONLY use a rifle.
Lets look at how the WAC's are written:
WAC 232-28-358 general elk season: for rifle
Hunting Method: May use modern firearm, bow and arrow, or muzzleloader, but only during modern firearm seasons.
WAC 232-28-360 special elk tags
Hunters drawn for a special permit hunt must comply with weapon restrictions, dates, and other conditions listed for the hunt.
So realistically if you were hunting in a regular season rifle any bull unit but had a rifle cow tag you could legally shoot the bull with a bow, but it would be unlawful to shoot the cow with a bow.
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 06:22:26 PM
Was the intent to only allow muzzleloaders during special permit muzzleloader hunts? If so, why?
If it really is as you say, bigtex, then it needs to be made much more clear in the regulations.
Post by: tgray on June 18, 2014, 07:37:38 PM
So who's ready to be mad at WDFW for bad regs???
Here's the answer.
Yes, you can use a lesser weapon for general season, BUT NOT for special permit seasons. You must use the actual weapon that was issued for the permit. So if I am hunting the general rifle elk season I can use a rifle, bow, or muzzleloader. But if I am hunting the White River sept 22-26 rifle special permit tag I can ONLY use a rifle.
Lets look at how the WAC's are written:
WAC 232-28-358 general elk season: for rifle
Hunting Method: May use modern firearm, bow and arrow, or muzzleloader, but only during modern firearm seasons.
WAC 232-28-360 special elk tags
Hunters drawn for a special permit hunt must comply with weapon restrictions, dates, and other conditions listed for the hunt.
So realistically if you were hunting in a regular season rifle any bull unit but had a rifle cow tag you could legally shoot the bull with a bow, but it would be unlawful to shoot the cow with a bow.
Exactly what they told me on the phone
Post by: rosscrazyelk on June 18, 2014, 08:07:03 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2014, 08:12:21 PM
That's stupid. If someone wants to hunt a special modern elk hunt with a bow they should. What does it matter if you are using a lesser weapon? Good griefi agree, they let you do it if its a regular tag but not if its a special permit? It really doesn't make sense.
Post by: bobcat on June 18, 2014, 08:30:44 PM
Post by: tgray on June 18, 2014, 08:50:09 PM
Post by: bigtex on June 18, 2014, 09:36:31 PM
It especially doesn't make sense when the law was written specifically so you could use a lesser weapon. But apparently some in the WDFW choose to interpret it in a way in which it was not intended, and for what? So they can write tickets to people who are doing nothing wrong? Even if nobody has been cited for this it's wrong to be telling people that they can't do it. This is the kind of thing that is making the WDFW less and less popular with the public. Myself included. :bash:The law you are mentioning is WAC 232-28-358 for elk. It is the only rule that states you can use a bow during rifle season (or other lesser weapons), nowhere else in the WAC or RCW does it state that for elk. Now 232-28-358 only applies for general season. WAC 232-28-360 is the law that spells out the legalities of elk special permits and that is where it is says you can only use the weapon on the permit.
So what would need to happen in order for something to change? Basically the language that is in 232-28-358 would have to also be in 232-28-360. Until that happens there is no such thing of legally using lesser weapons for the special permit hunt.
Post by: Tbar on June 18, 2014, 10:03:32 PM
Post by: liljozie495 on June 23, 2014, 08:11:52 AM
You guys are awesome, once again these members show there are still kick azz people in this state! Notellumcreek, you calling me an old fart!! :chuckle:
Haha not quite, I am just saying with me at 25 years young I am sure most of you guys are older than that, but not necessarily an "old fart" :chuckle:
I'd say old fart... Lol but I'm right on board with notellum sense were hunting partners and spend basically year round planting cams everywhere in there and spending far too much gas money in there, maybe we can get lucky n draw that tag some day haha good luck to the white river tag holders. Notellum and I I'm sure can help be pack mules if needed.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 23, 2014, 08:17:39 AM
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Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on June 23, 2014, 02:17:48 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on June 23, 2014, 06:19:04 PM
You guys are awesome, once again these members show there are still kick azz people in this state! Notellumcreek, you calling me an old fart!! :chuckle:
Haha not quite, I am just saying with me at 25 years young I am sure most of you guys are older than that, but not necessarily an "old fart" :chuckle:
I'd say old fart... Lol but I'm right on board with notellum sense were hunting partners and spend basically year round planting cams everywhere in there and spending far too much gas money in there, maybe we can get lucky n draw that tag some day haha good luck to the white river tag holders. Notellum and I I'm sure can help be pack mules if needed.
By chance did you find a bushnell trophy cam in a box on the ground or hear of anyone finding one?
Post by: brianmtsinc on June 23, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
I'd say old fart... Lol but I'm right on board with notellum sense were hunting partners and spend basically year round planting cams everywhere in there and spending far too much gas money in there, maybe we can get lucky n draw that tag some day haha good luck to the white river tag holders. Notellum and I I'm sure can help be pack mules if needed.
[/quote]
Careful what you offer up :chuckle: :chuckle: We might just take you up on that :chuckle: :chuckle: Trophyhunt likes to get a long ways away from the roads - and I (AND BRIANB321) are getting ready! :tup:
Thanks for all the offer of help guys! Been running and working out4-5 days a week since the draw so I can get in shape. I can't wait!
Big thanks to Trophyhunt too for sending me the pics of his trip last weekend! Man, that placed looked PERFECT!! BEAUTIFUL!!! :tup: :tup: :drool: :drool:
Post by: liljozie495 on June 23, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Ross pm me the where abouts it was lost I'll be back up tomorrow hiking around with a pack full of weight.
Post by: notellumcreek on June 24, 2014, 01:00:28 PM
Was in the backcountry Sunday, what a day for a hike. Lots of elk sign, two yotes and a goat. I'm gonna kill me a bull back in there when I draw that muzzy tag!!
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Where did you hike trophy? I went up to Bullion Basin sunday morning for a quick hike, passed a couple people on my way up but none looked like hunters really. Lots of snow in the north facing bowls still, ran into a ton of elk sign as well.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 24, 2014, 01:04:59 PM
Post by: liljozie495 on July 07, 2014, 09:44:15 PM
Post by: swanny on July 10, 2014, 07:05:22 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 10, 2014, 08:49:52 PM
Post by: swanny on July 11, 2014, 09:55:30 AM
I will be up there saturday but I doubt you would find me. LOL
So is it worth taking bikes up there for scouting and hunting on? The little driving I've done off the 70 road I haven't noticed any gates...I'm not exactly sure what his plan is. I know he has a few guys that he knows who have had tags for there and is tapping there info for places to start.
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 11, 2014, 10:10:00 AM
I will be up there saturday but I doubt you would find me. LOL
Hey Ross,
Throphyhunt and I will be up there Sun. setting up a few trail cameras. I can't wait!! It is well past time for me to burn some boot leather up there! :tup:
Post by: lewy on July 11, 2014, 10:42:01 AM
I will be up there saturday but I doubt you would find me. LOL
So is it worth taking bikes up there for scouting and hunting on? The little driving I've done off the 70 road I haven't noticed any gates...I'm not exactly sure what his plan is. I know he has a few guys that he knows who have had tags for there and is tapping there info for places to start.
If you plan on biking into Hancock ground (muck now) you will need a permit, most Fs gates will be open and you probably won't need a bike. I don't know what tag you have but its looking like there's a good chance of Hancock closing for fire hazard at least in archery season. There are plenty of elk off the tree farm but if you can swing it having access to Hancock opens up lots of opportunity.
Post by: swanny on July 11, 2014, 11:51:02 AM
I will be up there saturday but I doubt you would find me. LOL
So is it worth taking bikes up there for scouting and hunting on? The little driving I've done off the 70 road I haven't noticed any gates...I'm not exactly sure what his plan is. I know he has a few guys that he knows who have had tags for there and is tapping there info for places to start.
If you plan on biking into Hancock ground (muck now) you will need a permit, most Fs gates will be open and you probably won't need a bike. I don't know what tag you have but its looking like there's a good chance of Hancock closing for fire hazard at least in archery season. There are plenty of elk off the tree farm but if you can swing it having access to Hancock opens up lots of opportunity.
Thanks! It's the modern bull tag that my buddy has. No Hancock passes for either of us so we will be sticking to the FS lands.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 11, 2014, 12:02:20 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 11, 2014, 12:21:20 PM
Yeah I tried to get him to go on Sat but that's ok.I will be up there saturday but I doubt you would find me. LOL
Hey Ross,
Throphyhunt and I will be up there Sun. setting up a few trail cameras. I can't wait!! It is well past time for me to burn some boot leather up there! :tup:
Still lots of time have fun and stay cool its gonna be hot
Post by: lewy on July 12, 2014, 06:25:32 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 12, 2014, 07:14:23 AM
Ross- did you draw WR?No I drew a different tag. This is where I go to get my exercise :chuckle:
Post by: Shane54 on July 12, 2014, 10:54:07 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 15, 2014, 09:47:54 PM
My new muzzy arrives tomorrow :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: I am so excited for this hunt and loving it already! :tup:
Post by: bowpredator on July 16, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 16, 2014, 09:50:58 AM
Post by: lewy on July 16, 2014, 10:14:51 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 16, 2014, 05:02:33 PM
FYI for you WR tag holders, crystal gets hunted hard, you may not see many people when your scouting but come hunting season theres plenty. Including horse camps. Not trying to discourage, just letting you know so that you don't put all your eggs in one basket and have a couple of back up plans....Best of luck :tup:
Unless I am missing something, there are only 6 muzzy tags for the full unit :dunno: ... if I am correct, I have to assume that a few will be on Hancock land :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on July 16, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Maybe by the Indians? :dunno:
Post by: billythekidrock on July 16, 2014, 05:53:03 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 16, 2014, 07:59:25 PM
Do me a favor and ask your buddy that hunted WR last year if he saw any/many people up there.
Thanks! :tup:
Brian C.
Post by: westside bull on July 17, 2014, 07:21:35 AM
FYI for you WR tag holders, crystal gets hunted hard, you may not see many people when your scouting but come hunting season theres plenty. Including horse camps. Not trying to discourage, just letting you know so that you don't put all your eggs in one basket and have a couple of back up plans....Best of luck :tup:There might be a few people up at Crystal but with limited tags it does'nt get hunted hard was there in 08 with a buddy sat night of the opening 60 plus elk and no hunters. With that little number of tags and big unit it will a good hunt good luck tag holders!
Post by: lewy on July 17, 2014, 08:18:51 AM
FYI for you WR tag holders, crystal gets hunted hard, you may not see many people when your scouting but come hunting season theres plenty. Including horse camps. Not trying to discourage, just letting you know so that you don't put all your eggs in one basket and have a couple of back up plans....Best of luck :tup:
Unless I am missing something, there are only 6 muzzy tags for the full unit :dunno: ... if I am correct, I have to assume that a few will be on Hancock land :dunno:
Correct, muzzy season will have the least amount of pressure but this thread isn't specifically on muzzleloading, unless im missing something.
Post by: westside bull on July 17, 2014, 09:35:20 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 17, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 17, 2014, 10:28:41 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 17, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
I have been helping guys all over white river in all seasons and in 20 years I have only ran into a handful of people
That is what I was hoping to hear :tup: :tup: Thanks Ross!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 17, 2014, 01:49:26 PM
Thanks
Curtis
Post by: Falcon on July 19, 2014, 10:36:44 AM
Hey Rog,
Do me a favor and ask your buddy that hunted WR last year if he saw any/many people up there.
Thanks! :tup:
Brian C.
Pm sent
Post by: Hooked On Chrome Guide Service on July 20, 2014, 08:02:51 AM
Post by: Ccortez on July 20, 2014, 08:44:52 AM
Post by: liljozie495 on July 20, 2014, 01:52:14 PM
You guys are awesome, once again these members show there are still kick azz people in this state! Notellumcreek, you calling me an old fart!! :chuckle:
Haha not quite, I am just saying with me at 25 years young I am sure most of you guys are older than that, but not necessarily an "old fart" :chuckle:
I'd say old fart... Lol but I'm right on board with notellum sense were hunting partners and spend basically year round planting cams everywhere in there and spending far too much gas money in there, maybe we can get lucky n draw that tag some day haha good luck to the white river tag holders. Notellum and I I'm sure can help be pack mules if needed.
Nice meeting you guys today! Hope the rest of your guys hike went well, can't believe you didn't call me out on my old fart comments trophy :chuckle: haha. Let me know next hike I'd be more then down to go!
Post by: brianb231 on July 20, 2014, 10:23:44 PM
You guys are awesome, once again these members show there are still kick azz people in this state! Notellumcreek, you calling me an old fart!! :chuckle:
Haha not quite, I am just saying with me at 25 years young I am sure most of you guys are older than that, but not necessarily an "old fart" :chuckle:
I'd say old fart... Lol but I'm right on board with notellum sense were hunting partners and spend basically year round planting cams everywhere in there and spending far too much gas money in there, maybe we can get lucky n draw that tag some day haha good luck to the white river tag holders. Notellum and I I'm sure can help be pack mules if needed.
Nice meeting you guys today! Hope the rest of your guys hike went well, can't believe you didn't call me out on my old fart comments trophy :chuckle: haha. Let me know next hike I'd be more then down to go!
Hey there,
IT was good meeting you as well. Always nice to put a name to a face with the HW members! Probably see you up there again. LOL.
Good Luck,
Brianb231
Post by: trophyhunt on July 21, 2014, 05:32:28 AM
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Post by: liljozie495 on July 21, 2014, 05:59:53 AM
Post by: Falcon on July 21, 2014, 04:25:02 PM
It's was good to meet you, completely forgot about the old guy comment, must be my old guy memory! It's cool to meet huntwa members out in the field, you don't know how many times I ask people when I see them on the trail if their members.
Jerry<
I have met you in person, and yes you are OLD :chuckle:
Post by: trophyhunt on July 21, 2014, 04:26:56 PM
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Post by: Falcon on July 21, 2014, 04:31:40 PM
You have taken down more bulls then I ever will even in my dreams :chuckle:
Hopefully we can team up someday with a great tag and you can show me how its done :tup:
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on July 29, 2014, 12:24:10 AM
Post by: scoutdog346 on July 29, 2014, 01:02:49 AM
Post by: ElaphusElatus on July 29, 2014, 06:37:42 AM
Post by: liljozie495 on August 04, 2014, 05:41:01 AM
With all of the apparently good bull opportunity maybe this unit should be open to general season? Success would likely decline, but more folks could hunt it, although it would surely be more crowded and more competitive. Not sure what the state has in store for the next 3 years.
Maybe a few more quality tags would be cool, or better yet a few cow tags. :dunno:
Post by: trophyhunt on August 04, 2014, 06:09:38 AM
Post by: scoutdog346 on August 10, 2014, 08:38:02 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on September 25, 2014, 11:23:17 AM
Many days of scouting are ahead - 9 days to go and counting!!!!
BrianB has located a good one we will target if he sticks around :tup: :tup: Maybe he will post up a pic :dunno: :chuckle:
Big thanks to those that have offered up advice and PM'd me. Myself, BrianB, and Throphyhunt are preparing to work our tails off to find a good one and make this a hunt to remember!! :tup:
Post by: trophyhunt on September 25, 2014, 11:37:18 AM
Well, I am returning from a business trip today and am switching into HUNT MODE! :tup:damn straight! Should be a blast, can't friggin wait. Best part for me is, as soon as he kills his bull, I'm off to Idaho to find an elk for myself to kill! Man I love this time of year!!
Many days of scouting are ahead - 9 days to go and counting!!!!
BrianB has located a good one we will target if he sticks around :tup: :tup: Maybe he will post up a pic :dunno: :chuckle:
Big thanks to those that have offered up advice and PM'd me. Myself, BrianB, and Throphyhunt are preparing to work our tails off to find a good one and make this a hunt to remember!! :tup:
Post by: _TONY_ on September 25, 2014, 11:42:21 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on September 25, 2014, 02:06:10 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on September 25, 2014, 03:04:04 PM
Post by: YoterHunter on September 25, 2014, 06:38:39 PM
n
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 05, 2014, 08:34:02 AM
More later on this ... :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
Now it's time to wake camp up and figure out how to get this guy out of the woods :yike:
Thx so much to all that offered advice :tup: :tup:
Post by: Falcon on October 05, 2014, 08:35:48 AM
Looking forward to the story and pics.
Awesome job!!!!!!
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 05, 2014, 11:24:13 AM
Post by: iRem on October 05, 2014, 11:29:44 AM
Tag!X2
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Post by: _TONY_ on October 05, 2014, 11:34:57 AM
Post by: clearwater on October 05, 2014, 12:09:10 PM
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Post by: clearwater on October 05, 2014, 12:09:23 PM
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Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 08:50:58 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 08:58:32 PM
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Post by: BENCHLEG on October 05, 2014, 09:00:06 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 09:02:33 PM
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Post by: PlateauNDN on October 05, 2014, 09:08:41 PM
Post by: BENCHLEG on October 05, 2014, 09:10:48 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 09:11:10 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 05, 2014, 09:20:13 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 09:29:47 PM
Post by: _TONY_ on October 05, 2014, 09:30:30 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2014, 09:46:45 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 05, 2014, 09:52:43 PM
Post by: kentrek on October 05, 2014, 10:00:10 PM
Post by: liljozie495 on October 06, 2014, 04:12:05 AM
Post by: jackmaster on October 06, 2014, 06:40:24 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on October 06, 2014, 07:24:17 PM
Post by: zdirtymax on October 06, 2014, 07:43:07 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 06, 2014, 09:26:40 PM
Post by: brianb231 on October 06, 2014, 09:49:21 PM
Well, there was much anticipation and preparation put into this hunt from our crew (East Side Elk Mafia). Partly due to having to leave the comforts of the East Side that we have hunted Elk for the past 20 odd years. The West side was going to be an adventure. After several scouting trips by Trophyhunt, BrianMTSinc and Myself (Brianb231) we felt pretty good that we were going to be into bugling bulls from day one. :IBCOOL: We had several located. Opening morning the 3 of us and Mike, BrianMTSinc's son and pack mule headed up the mountain with a plan. As you know those plans usually get thrown out the window within 10 minutes due to something. . The wind :bash: was as usual not cooperative but the only way was up and side hill from the get go. We heard several bulls and chose to hunt the one with best wind. Me an Mike were doing the calling and Trophy and BrianMTS were up front. Obviously Brian had the tag. The muzzleloader was a new weapon and Brian had experienced issues during sighting in of his cap not going off so the was some concern for that. :yike: We got setup on our first bull and he was a nice 5x5 that came to within 50 yards of Brian and Trophy. But we got separated during the heat of the battle and ended up calling him into 10 yards of me (the Caller) on the same trail in a stare down. Busted. :drool: So day one was starting out fun as we had expected. I am not sure Brian would have shot that bull anyway but he was pretty nice. So we all met up across the ravine and sat back for a little break taking in some snack and rest for a couple min. It was already about noon. We had only rested about 10 min when I hear a bull going crazy above us.. :chuckle: But damn I was tired from the first hill climb. Fat guys get the least amount of rest cause they are usually the last up the hill. :bdid: But onward and upward we go.!!!! So we climb through a rock face chute and get on top to where the bulls were going at it. We set up and we have 3 bulls coming from 3 directions. 2 of the bulls eventually flakes off but a nice 5x5 and a cow came in at 40 yards. Then the wind... ? :bash: . So hi ho hi ho its off to the next ridge we go! :IBCOOL: We decide to get all the way on top and we find the "BedRoom". I think that describes it well enough. We start calling in there and we had at a minimum of 6 bulls going in there at the same time. Problem was from the callers perspective is that I was not sure which bulls trophy and Brian were passing on and which bugle they wanted to pull in because they were coming in from all angles. It was like Jurassic Fricken Park! :drool: Good problem to have. So they head down the trail a bit and bump a nice bull down the draw away from us. They pass on a smaller 5x5. And me and Mike have two bulls within 60 yards of us back where we were calling from. It was complete mayhem. We ran into some radio trouble so that kind of complicated things as well. So Brian and Trophy lay eyes on a 7x7 and some cows and its off to the races again. :hello: Well as we make our way up and around the next ridge we do not see them. They are gone. :bash: Its now about 5:30PM and we are a good couple hours hike back to camp. But old Trophyhunt always wants to know whats behind that next ridge :o so against better judgment we head farther and say to hell with the sun! Bring on the night!. And what a great idea that turned into. We just start to crest around the ridge and this Monster 5x5 screams at us from across the canyon. Me and Mike back out of sight and Trophy and BrianMTS get ready with the sticks and are ready. We are just Estrus calling and this bull is going berserk with moans and growls like he has larengitis! Make the hair stand up on your neck. Then all of a sudden from below me in the same canyon another big sounding bull decides he wants a piece of me as well. So now these bulls are in a race to see who can get to us first. The 5x5 finally breaks and forgets all senses (accept for one ) and comes in screaming. Brianmts has a frontal shot on him at 50 yards. As the bull turned I thought BrianMTS was going to shoot him, but I know Brian really wanted a nice 6 pt so he was hesitant even though this was a very mature 5 point. All of a sudden Trophy whispers to BrianMTS with his OUTSIDE voice" Don't shoot, Don't Shoot!, Big bull to your left on the trail! So now BrianMTS in is on his sticks facing the wrong way and the big bull has got eyes on him now from 70 Yards. BrianMTS has no choice but to lift his guns and let the sticks fall and put the bead on him and shoot free handed. KABOOOOOOOOM!!!. :tup: Me and Mike as the callers thought he actually shot at the 5x5. But I see the smoke going a different direction and the 5x5 bugles back at us after the shot. We catch up to them and it was a brief moment of excitement, uncertainty, then certainty....then we hope so...... You know how that goes. The bull had run off and we could hear him give some really heavy breaths as he disappeared in the trees. After some time we all go down and find him piled up in a thicket of trees. IT turns out he is a Heavy 6x7 with crowns on both sides. :IBCOOL: Let the celebration begin!!!!! And then end quickly when we realized what was next. How in the hell are we going to get this pig out of here. :bdid: The drainage we were in was so steep we just pushed him and he free rolled down to the creek bottom and we hung up the quarters and bagged everything up. It was now about 9:30. We got down and back to camp in the dark with the head at about 12:30 AM. It was a brutal hike straight down and even a more brutal hike straight back up in the morning to retrieve him. 1800 vertical feet in elevation change in just a third of a mile. Once at the bottom we all took a shot of Fireball out of his crown just like a large shot glass. It was something I wont soon forget. The bullet he used was a 300 grain 50 cal Powerbelt Aerolite with 100 grains of Triple F powder. The bullet went through the ribs on one side through both lungs and broke the rib on the other side and was just inside the hide on the far side. One hell of a shot.! Big thanks to the entire East Side Elk Mafia Crew and others that gave advice and helped out at camp. It made for a very memorable hunt! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: brianb231 on October 06, 2014, 09:52:45 PM
Post by: notellumcreek on October 06, 2014, 10:01:05 PM
Post by: _TONY_ on October 06, 2014, 10:10:36 PM
Post by: MLBowhunting on October 06, 2014, 10:34:26 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 06, 2014, 10:42:52 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 06, 2014, 11:12:00 PM
Post by: Falcon on October 07, 2014, 02:13:05 AM
First off congrats on a really great bull. I had the rifle tag last year and I know from personnel
Experience it is steep and deep in many places that hold the Bulls. What a great experience to have with a great group of guys. Trophy Hunt is truly an elk Assasin and you were fortunate to have him as part of your dream team.
Enjoy the memories of a hunt of a lifetime :tup:
Post by: rosscrazyelk on October 07, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 07, 2014, 07:22:14 AM
Why do I not see Jerry in a pic?cause I'm wearing kuiu gear!! :chuckle: I'm in 4 of the pics, I put some grey fur on my chin for the hunting season.
Post by: BENCHLEG on October 07, 2014, 08:02:39 AM
Post by: Tbar on October 07, 2014, 08:11:29 AM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on October 07, 2014, 08:52:54 AM
Post by: wamuledeer on October 07, 2014, 09:03:26 AM
Post by: brianb231 on October 07, 2014, 09:49:52 AM
Post by: elkoholic1 on October 07, 2014, 10:10:29 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 07, 2014, 10:29:36 AM
My story …. (sorry for the length- believe it or not, I left a lot out) ..
I think Jerry said it best when he said this was an “EPIC HUNT”. Although it only lasted 1 day, I had more bulls around me in a single day than I have had in maybe the last several years combined! It was unbelievable!! If I remember right, I cocked the hammer back 7 times!! One of my goals has always been to pass on a bull. As many of you big bull killers have told me, you can’t kill a big one if you shoot the first thing to come in. However, due to other plans (an Oregon deer hunt we leave for tomorrow) I only had about 4 days to get this done. With that in mind, I told myself and the guys that I was going to only shoot a 6 pt or better on day one OR possibly a BIG 5 of it would hit the 300 mark. After that, I would take any branched bull.
Opening morning started off with great anticipation and excitement as the bulls were sounding off like crazy – like Jurassic Park! We set up on a growler at first light but he wouldn’t come in. So, we tried going to him. Straight up! We never got to him, but that began a day of almost CONSTANT bugling elk, and many close encounters! One bull almost fell early as BrianB and Mike were set up behind us calling and Trophy was with me upfront with a camera over my shoulder. This bull was going nuts listening to the beautiful cow and estrus calls from the guys behind us but unfortunately came out in a thicket of vine maples and presented no shot. He then went uphill and circled out of my range and went right to Brian and Mike. Ugh! :bash: You can imagine the frustration, but the sound of other bulls kept the excitement running high and pushed us further up that mountain.
After stopping for a quick break, Brian B walks of this ridge line about 20 yards away and starts waving us over –“Hurry up! They are screaming over here!!” Packs back on, and UP we go to set up again. This time we set up in between 3-4 different bulls. A nice, wide 6 point showed himself, but was out of range, so Throphy and I moved forward a bit to position ourselves in between that one and the other bulls. As soon as we set up again, a cow walked about 10 yards in front of us, and was soon followed by a bull! The bull froze up in the trees only showing bits of his rack, but we think he was a small 5pt. These bulls eventually got quiet and once again Throphy says, “let’s just get to the top” (as if there is ever really a TOP) … so up we go. As we “crest” the next ridgeline, we hear this beautiful, amazing, ANGRY bull, screaming at the estrus call. We set up a bit, but the bull was not moving, so we decide to sneak in on him. After pushing through some very thick stuff, we break through into this bedroom of criss cross trails, full of beds and rubs. Once we entered that, the woods lit up!!! :drool: We had at least 6 bulls going nuts! And I don’t mean the type of bugle where someone says’ “Did you hear that ?” These bulls were CLOSE and all getting closer! The big screamer did not want to move, but we held tight as another was clearly coming right to us! I heard some braches breaking to my right when Trophy says “I see him!” I look right and there are antlers coming through the trees right to us. It is a nice 5 pt that Brian and Mike brought in to 20 yards broadside! (Brian B is a MASTER caller, and Mike is quickly learning the ropes and doing well at his side) I cocked the hammer, thought quickly and decided not to shoot. I can’t describe the feeling and physical shaking that overtook me after passing that bull. It was strange and awesome all at the same time. I wondered if I had just made a big mistake when the screamer reminded me that I went up that mountain for a 6 pt or 300 class bull.
There were so many bulls screaming, we didn’t know which to pursue, but the screamer kept us focused on him and Trophy finally got eyes on him! He was a beautiful bull (a big 7pt I think???) – but of course he was up the hill…. So we continued up… We ended up getting within about 30 yards of this guy, but he never presented a shot.
The 4 of us meet up and discuss what to do next, and of course Trophy says, “ lets just go to the top” … we remind him that it is now 4:30 ish and we don’t have a lot of time if we are going to get off the mountain in the light. He says, ” I just have to look over the ridge”, so up we go…. As we get close, Brian B lets out a sweet estrus call and a bull screams back! I look across the next ridge and here comes a beautiful 5 pt RUNNING to us! I pulled up my binos and immediately told Trophy, “He’s a shooter!” So we set up on him knowing he was going to come in above us. I set the sticks the best I could on this steep hill and prepared while this bull crossed 300- 400 yards of canyon pushing his one cow. All this time another bull was screaming below us and was getting closer. I tell Trophy to keep an eye out for him and I was staying focused on the 5pt up hill. All the sudden the 5 pt is in the trees at 120 yards. He holds up a bit looking for the cows he thinks he is about to hook up with. Trophy advises – “don’t shoot – too far and he’s coming”. So I wait. He gets to about 75 and he says, “wait…” so I wait. He moves into about 50 yards and presents a frontal shot. I dial in and am about to pull the trigger when Trophy says “Big bull, left.” I look over and instantly know I am not going to shoot the 5pt! This bull is beautiful and standing at about 75 yards broadside! BUT, my new Accura V2 was pointed uphill on my shooting sticks and I knew if I lifted up my muzzy, the sticks would fall and probably scare the bull. I decided I had no choice, so I raised my gun, the sticks fell, the bull stayed still, I dialed in and squeezed the trigger! BOOM!! White smoke filled the air! Trophy asks’ Did you hit it?” I say, “I’m pretty sure” when all of the sudden I hear that sound – the one you hear when you get a good lung hit …. and then the hugs began. We stayed cautious in our excitement though until we found blood and shortly thereafter this beautiful 7x6 piled up. I was in shock and disbelief at what had just happened. I am not a rifle guy. I shoot bows, not guns. So to land that 75 yard off hand shot, standing at a steep angle – I can only say that was a gift from God.
I am so grateful for the experience, the friendships, and the bond that we all shared. We all pushed ourselves beyond our limits (except Trophy – that guy is a BEAST!! :chuckle: :chuckle:) And were rewarded with blisters, cuts, scrapes, bruises, raw toes, AND a beautiful bull with memories to last a lifetime! Thank you guys! :tup: :tup: :tup:
Finally, a sincere thank you to those of you here on HuntWa that offered up help, advice and intel for this hunt. I won’t name any names because most help was offered via PM’s and I want to respect that privacy, but you know who you are. THANK YOU!! :tup:
Brian C.
Here are a couple more pics .,...
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 07, 2014, 10:35:03 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 07, 2014, 10:36:15 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 07, 2014, 10:38:54 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 07, 2014, 10:43:34 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on October 07, 2014, 10:45:23 AM
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Post by: Harbor_hunter on October 07, 2014, 11:34:50 AM
Post by: jackmaster on October 07, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
Other side(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F10%2F08%2Fyjedu2ej.jpg&hash=e7363b5bd0e4de3c926718b7307c4af73011c43b)is that a good thing or a bad thing yaffa? dude that looks like some stee a$$ country :yike:hows the bones feeling duude :chuckle:
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Post by: trophyhunt on October 07, 2014, 01:39:08 PM
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Post by: westside bull on October 07, 2014, 02:01:29 PM
Post by: mkcj on October 07, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Post by: brianb231 on October 07, 2014, 06:47:59 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 22, 2014, 10:24:10 AM
True Joy... This is my story,
For months all I could hear my dad (BrianMTSinc) say is how excited he was for this hunt… “Finally going to get a monster!”.
I serve as a Corpsman in the US Navy (previously stationed on the east coast) and I was extremely disappointed that I couldn't make it for the early archery season. :'( The time of year that I look forward to more than any other. It is the one time of year that for two weeks, it is just myself, my dad, a few good friends, and archery elk hunting. I can’t tell you how appreciative I am for all the memories that I have with my dad that I will hold onto forever. So you can imagine how excited I was to find out that I picked up orders to Kitsap Naval base just in time to finally go up in the elk woods!! :IBCOOL:
The excitement woke my dad up at 0445. After having a cup of coffee, we finally rolled out of camp around 6 o’clock. There were so many elk the day before, the hardest part was to decided which direction to head. Finally deciding which way to start our hunt we took off. Our first play of the morning was a screamer from the night before. He would come in, we would set up, then he must’ve winding us because he ran up hill. So we chased him. We repositioned, set up and yet again he would head up hill. TrophyHunt said, “He’s just right up there” (400 yards and a 800 ft elevation change.) !! :yike: . You can guess what we did next…
BrianB and myself were calling. Finally we were closing the distance! We thought that BrianMTS and Trophy were in parallel to us on the hill and we were pulling the bull on a string. Next thing I noticed some movement in the tress. There standing sixty yards away on the other side of the draw, probably the biggest bull I’ve ever seen up close. But he didn’t stop there. He crossed the draw right to us!! All I saw was the whites of his rack at 10 yards from the other side of this finger. He spooked, and just walked up the hill away from us. :bash: :bash: We finally made contact w/ Trophyhunt and BrianMTS and told them to get up the hill as fast as they could. When they finally got up the hill, we could hear the bull scream again from just a few hundred yards away, but they were tired and we took a quick break.
20 minutes later and a candy bar split 3 ways we took off after TrophyHunts curiosity for "what’s over the next ridge". We climb another few hundred yards and get into another 3/4 bulls. It’s the same play- set up and pull them in. It didn’t happen then, so again we took off following TrophyHunt up. :yike:
It was something like a dream. The bedroom. BrianMTS and Trophy hunter go out 40 yards down the trail and BrianB and I stay back to call. There were so many elk all around us!!! Brian and I counted 6-7 bulls and all sounded like there within 200 yards from us. Just to our right up through a thicket we can hear a bull breathing and crunching of sticks under his feet. BrianB and I didn’t know what to do. Do we keep calling? What bull did they decide to go for? I never thought that I would get frustrated as a caller when 7 bulls are screaming at each other! Almost an hour goes by and we decide to meet up again and regroup. We learn that BrianMTS passed on a 5 pt and that they got eyes on a big bull...
We decided to continue down a highway of a game trail toward a bull that sounded like a monster, but we couldn’t make anything happen. I remember asking my dad what time it was “5:30 pm” he said. There was about another 45 minutes left before we needed to head down the mountain…. Again we were at a cross roads, what bull do we go after?
Yet again, we chase TrophyHunts desire to know what’s over the next ridge. :yike: Thankfully we did! After climbing another 100 yards, BrianB blows a couple estrus calls and this bull just let off this angry, raspy bugle. My dad sees him on the other side of the draw, pulls out his binos, “he’s a shooter!!” its Game time! BrianB calls this huge 5x5 right in on a string! As this 5x5 is literally running to the call, another bull is coming up from below with us as the epicenter!!! I can see over this little tree I’m standing in behind and there was the 5x5 just standing there less than 100 yards away from me! I knew my dad must’ve had the shot.. Shoot… shoot…I am thinking… why aren’t you shooting?!?!’ :dunno: :dunno: This great 5x5 walked away…. ‘how could he have passed on that bull?!’ BrianB interrupted my thought, “big bull on our left!… Don’t move!.. “ he whispered! BOOM!!! The cloud of white smoke filled the air! A squeal of excitement came from my dad just on the other side of the ridge. :IBCOOL:
‘Did you get him?!’
“I think so.. Yeah, I got him!!!”
It was a 70 yard shot, on an incline that would make most mothers sick, off shoulder without sticks and he laced him!!! It was an amazing shot!!!!
Just after any shot, every minute seems like hours!!! The track job was easy. We found him just 50 yards away!!! After some pictures, we thought we would drag him whole down the hill, we made it a few hundred yards right into a creek bed… thats where we decided to take care of business. Mind you, the sun was just setting, we had 2 head lights, an expensive flashlight, and a cheap flashlight (that I obviously got stuck with) :bash: :bash: :chuckle:. The head came out with us that night and we left everything else for the morning. “10:23pm” my dad said and off we went back down this mountain we just climbed. TrophyHunt is a beast!!! That is no joke! :yike: :yike: I thought I could run up the elk woods better than most but not like this man! He led the trail out guiding us away from cliffs and picking the right path to get out in one piece. Only after BrianMTS falling about 5 times... BrainMTS, BrianB, TrophyHunt and myself finally hit the road two hours later. We were met at the road by family and friends. The celebrations can finally begin!! The picture of my dad and I, "True joy" my dad describes it... I couldn't have said it better... True Joy.
I couldn’t have asked for a better experience! My dad and I have talked about going high country elk hunting for as long as I can remember. A check off the bucket list. :IBCOOL: A memory that I won’t ever forget! A huge thank you to all those who helped my dad accomplish a dream of his. Thank you TrophyHunt for having the desire and passion to see “what is over the next hill”. BrianB thank you for letting me call with you, teaching me the ropes, and sharpening my calling skills. BrianMTS, my dad, thank you for all the memories from when I was a kid and fighting me to get out of bed at 5 in the morning, the patience of teaching me how to be a skilled hunter, and all the money you’ve spent over the years buying new bows for me and all the lost arrows. lol :chuckle: :chuckle: Your passion for the sport is contagious! This is one memory that I will forever cherished. Words can’t express how thankful I am. :tup:
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 22, 2014, 05:16:32 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 22, 2014, 08:30:20 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 23, 2014, 07:47:29 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 23, 2014, 07:25:35 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on October 23, 2014, 10:33:35 PM
Very respectful kid you have there Brian, you should be damn proud! And you should be proud of yourself for being a great parent and someone who your kids look up too! :tup:
Thanks Jerry! It almost 3 weeks later and I am still in amazement of it all..... here is a pic of My son Mike and I with our bull! ... it is so great to have him back home! :tup:
Post by: Hawgdawg on October 23, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on October 24, 2014, 07:24:16 AM
Post by: scoutdog346 on November 21, 2014, 01:38:41 AM
Post by: jackmaster on November 26, 2014, 12:02:06 PM
U can't use a boe for gen muzz seasonu can't use bow for a spell. Perm muzzdo what?? :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 26, 2014, 12:20:32 PM