Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2014, 12:21:17 PM

Title: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2014, 12:21:17 PM: Hey guys,

Just a quick question for you pros out there. I'm shooting 300 grain sabots right now, is that sufficient for elk? I'm open to switching bullets, but I want to make sure that by July I am shooting what I will be shooting in October.

Thanks!

Curtis
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: RG on June 25, 2014, 12:30:32 PM: Yep, as long as they are pretty accurate in your gun.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2014, 12:32:03 PM: I plan on spending July and August testing 3-5 different brands of 300-325ish and see what groups the best. I've got a 1" group at 50 yards (2" at 100) with .223 grain, so I know the gun and I can pull it off.

Curtis
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 12:37:04 PM: I use 295 grain with 15o grains of pellets and have never had a problem.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2014, 12:39:14 PM: 150?? Wow! I've been using 95 on granular!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 12:41:18 PM: Yes three 50 grain pellets. 150 grains with a 295 grain SST sabot.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HntnFsh on June 25, 2014, 01:40:53 PM: Quote from: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 12:41:18 PM
Yes three 50 grain pellets. 150 grains with a 295 grain SST sabot.

Waste of powder!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 01:56:12 PM: How is that a waste of powder if my gun shoots that load the best? I would shoot only 120 grains if they were 60 grain pellets but their not. There are five guys in our camp and we all shoot the same load. When the freezers are full of meat I can handle a little waste of powder :tup:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2014, 02:02:12 PM: Quote from: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
How is that a waste of powder if my gun shoots that load the best? I would shoot only 120 grains if they were 60 grain pellets but their not. There are five guys in our camp and we all shoot the same load. When the freezers are full of meat I can handle a little waste of powder :tup:

Well I am certainly not going to argue with someone who obviously has had success!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Labs07 on June 25, 2014, 02:06:12 PM: I used 250 gr barns bullet with 120 gr pyrodex. I took a bull and a cow in 2012 and a deer in 2011 with this combo. None of the animals took more than two steps.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 02:14:27 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: RG on June 25, 2014, 04:23:36 PM: Quote from: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 12:37:04 PM
I use 295 grain with 15o grains of pellets and have never had a problem.

Wow, kaboom!! 90 grains is enough in my gun.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Beargravy on June 25, 2014, 04:34:56 PM: I have done a lot of experiments with bullets, powders, caps, ect.For me a 310 knight lead sabot, 3 50gr. pyrodex pellets and a cci musket cap have performed well.That 3rd pellet really makes a difference in my experience.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: SnakeEyes on June 25, 2014, 04:39:22 PM: I have been told somewhere along the line that it takes more pellets to have the same effect as powder. My gun shot really well with 3 - 50 grain Triple 7 pellets and the velocity was quite a bit better than when I shot 2 - pellets. I have now switched to powder because quicker more reliable ignition. There is a lag sometimes with the ignition when using pellets. I think I am using the 290 grain Barnes bullet.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Beargravy on June 25, 2014, 04:50:17 PM: The pyrodex pellets always go boom for me and 3 pellets definetly has more punch.A friend and I both used the load I described and had no trouble dispatching two giant Nooksack bulls last season.When u are shaking like crazy pellets way easier to reload.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: SnakeEyes on June 25, 2014, 06:18:07 PM: Quote from: Beargravy on June 25, 2014, 04:50:17 PM
The pyrodex pellets always go boom for me and 3 pellets definetly has more punch.A friend and I both used the load I described and had no trouble dispatching two giant Nooksack bulls last season.When u are shaking like crazy pellets way easier to reload.

I still dropped my pellets reloading after first shot. Couldnt stop shaking.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: RG on June 25, 2014, 07:26:54 PM: Quote from: SnakeEyes on June 25, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Beargravy on June 25, 2014, 04:50:17 PM
The pyrodex pellets always go boom for me and 3 pellets definetly has more punch.A friend and I both used the load I described and had no trouble dispatching two giant Nooksack bulls last season.When u are shaking like crazy pellets way easier to reload.

I still dropped my pellets reloading after first shot. Couldnt stop shaking.

I've poured loose powder on my boot watching an animal I had just shot as it was getting ready to fall. Thought I had Parkinson's disease. Ha, isn't hunting great!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: bobcat on June 25, 2014, 07:30:41 PM: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HntnFsh on June 25, 2014, 07:42:20 PM: Quote from: HUNT-HARD on June 25, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
How is that a waste of powder if my gun shoots that load the best? I would shoot only 120 grains if they were 60 grain pellets but their not. There are five guys in our camp and we all shoot the same load. When the freezers are full of meat I can handle a little waste of powder :tup:

If it works, it works. But from what Ive read your probably only burning about 120 grains of powder and blowing 30 grains out the end of the barrel or leaving it as residue. Myself,I'm not a fan of pellets. I dont feel they are as reliable or adjustable as loose powder. Theres a lot of weapons out there that arent designed for 150 grains, and a few older ones that say they are. But they arent safe to shoot it in them due to inferior barrels.

Sounds to me like you already realize that when you say you would shoot 120 grains but cant get them in 60 grain pellets.

Like I said. Its a waste of powder. But thats a small price to pay when your putting meat in the freezer.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: grundy53 on June 25, 2014, 07:42:29 PM: Quote from: SnakeEyes on June 25, 2014, 04:39:22 PM
I have been told somewhere along the line that it takes more pellets to have the same effect as powder. My gun shot really well with 3 - 50 grain Triple 7 pellets and the velocity was quite a bit better than when I shot 2 - pellets. I have now switched to powder because quicker more reliable ignition. There is a lag sometimes with the ignition when using pellets. I think I am using the 290 grain Barnes bullet.
I've heard the same thing. I also use three pellets. I use them under a 250 grain sst. But I have only hunted deer with mine. I'm going to try out the bloodlines this weekend.

sent from my typewriter
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: oneshot12 on June 25, 2014, 07:44:26 PM: :whoo: :whoo: IT Sure IS :chuckle:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ghosthunter on June 25, 2014, 08:04:24 PM: This spike ran 100 feet after I shot him at end of muzzel with Prodex pellets 2, 50 grain and a 310 sabot.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: pd on June 25, 2014, 08:15:41 PM: Quote from: ghosthunter on June 25, 2014, 08:04:24 PM
This spike ran 100 feet after I shot him at end of muzzel with Prodex pellets 2, 50 grain and a 310 sabot.

Now that is a massive spike!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Whitelightning on June 25, 2014, 08:18:34 PM: I use Loose only in any of my Muzzle loaders, whether it is a .410, .451 or .504 cal rifle. Pellets as stated can and will have a longer lag between cap ignition and powder ignition this is proven over and over.

I use 75-85gr T7 in my .504's with either a 495gr or 510gr lead conical. I get 1" groups at 100 yards constantly with either of these combinations. The Bear in my avatar I took at 75 yards with the 510 grain conical over 85gr T7ffg powder. The Bear did not take a step DRT (dead rite there) and the bullet was a complete pass through. I can shoot 150 grains in my .504's however there is no gain in accuracy and just beats my shoulder up. :twocents:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: pd on June 25, 2014, 08:18:41 PM: Quote from: ghosthunter on June 25, 2014, 08:04:24 PM
This spike ran 100 feet after I shot him at end of muzzel with Prodex pellets 2, 50 grain and a 310 sabot.

Now that is a massive spike!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Lefty315 on June 25, 2014, 10:36:42 PM: For what it's worth, I did a little test using a chronograph about two years ago. I first fired a 300 Grain SST and a 350 grain FPB using TWO 50 grain pellets. I then shot the same bullets with 100 grains of loose powder in 777 ff.

The 300 SST picked up 230 fps using 777 and the 350 FPB picked up 240 fps with 777. This was out of a TC Black Diamond with a 22 inch barrel.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Dan-o on June 25, 2014, 10:40:44 PM: Quote from: ghosthunter on June 25, 2014, 08:04:24 PM
This spike ran 100 feet after I shot him at end of muzzel with Prodex pellets 2, 50 grain and a 310 sabot.

Next time use a 3rd pellet and you'll drop him right in his tracks.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: Dan-o on June 25, 2014, 10:43:00 PM: By the way, that was a joke.......

I do shoot 3 pellets behind a 400 grain Harvester hard cast lead saboted bullet. Elk hate them. I've never seen such devastating wound channels.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 26, 2014, 06:15:56 AM: :jacked:

Hahaha sorry couldn't help myself

:chuckle:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: huntnnw on June 26, 2014, 06:28:22 AM: In WA where 209 are not legal there is no way your burning all 150. I will never use pellets again in a muzzy...I have had more hangfires in a year than in my whole life with loose. I use 90gr of Triple 7 and 300gr Barnes bullets.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: zike on June 26, 2014, 11:09:05 AM: A pellet uses a binder to hold the pellet together, so a 50 gr pellet isn't all powder. Its 40gr powder and 10 gr of binder. So a 150gr load of pellets is only 120grs of powder and 2 pellets is 80gr of powder. The binder is what causes the crud ring.

I shot a 160gr of loose powder thru my 54 cal. TC one time the gun handled it fine. But it was the first time i heard the crack as the bullet broke the sound barrier and it kicked like a mule. LOL
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 26, 2014, 11:11:31 AM: Zike, do you have a source for that info? Not that I don't believe you but that's really good info for me to have in the future!!

Curtis
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: zike on June 26, 2014, 11:41:55 AM: Ok you got me I made it up, just kidding. . I know I read it somewhere but its been a number of years, it could have been a site called Smokepole by a dude called Greybeard. The other thing is my manual said max load of three 50gr pellets or 120gr of loose powder.
Besides you got to know that they are using something to hold the pellets together or you'd have loose powder.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 26, 2014, 12:02:21 PM: Totally agree with you on that!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: HUNT-HARD on June 26, 2014, 12:07:06 PM: Burning it all or not its what shoots best out of my gun and I will keep using three :tup:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader for elk
Post by: zike on June 26, 2014, 12:18:05 PM: Did a quick search and found this article called:

Powder pellets for dummies

http://www.chuckhawks.com/pellets_dummies.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/pellets_dummies.htm)

So all you dummies check it out, also the product reviews are a good read and will answer your question

Another site: www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm)

Check it out.