Post by: Sportfury on December 02, 2008, 08:39:21 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2008, 08:46:08 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 02, 2008, 10:00:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2008, 10:13:58 PM
I'm not aware of anything the WDFW does for upland birds, at all. I guess they figure setting aside a couple tracts of land, often *censored*ty habitat, will help our birds.
Well, they HAVE purchased a lot of land to provide habitat for the endangered sage and sharptail grouse. Some of this is also good for huntable upland birds such as huns, quail, and chukar. But for pheasants, I'm not sure. They may have something to do with the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) which is the best thing for wild pheasants that we have.
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2008, 10:37:05 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/water/pheasant_workshop.pdf
Post by: shorthair-on-point on December 03, 2008, 08:09:12 AM
Post by: Intruder on December 03, 2008, 08:22:10 AM
Here's an interesting read I just came across on the WDFW site:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/water/pheasant_workshop.pdf
Back several months ago when wdfw was doing their traveling public presentations I got a chance to talk w/ one of wdfw's upland bioligists about this study and their plans. I found it pretty interesting and was somewhat encouraged by the initial work being done. However, I will say that from a $ perspective I didn't get the sense that they were putting a significant enough emphasis on this.
On a side note: I think the harvest numbers that they publish are total BS. They show Whitman county pheasant harvest at 15000 + birds. That means on average there are a 165 birds a day killed throughout the season. Put another way that means 50+ guys a day have to shoot their limits every day of the season. There's no way. Apart from opening weekend, Thanksgiving weekend, and parents weekend at WSU I'd be shocked if their are 50 guys even hunting on most weekend days.... let alone all shooting limits or hunting during the week. Their harvest reports are full of crap.
Post by: Intruder on December 03, 2008, 08:26:58 AM
In the 1960's WA pheasant harvest was equal to or greater than the Dakotas. Even in the late 70's there was a harvest of over 500,000 birds. Now the harvest numbers include all the released birds but most estimated WILD BIRD harvest is around 50,000. Facts are facts. If they are managing for wild birds then they hardly could be doing a worse job of it.Couldn't agree more.
I lived in Colfax in the 70s and I remember hunting w/ my dad and his friends and we'd see hundreds upon hundreds of pheasants. It wasn't anything to put up 300 or 400 hundred birds a day in addition to several coveys of huns and quail. Today pales in comparison to then.
Post by: high country on December 03, 2008, 08:42:44 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on December 03, 2008, 08:48:06 AM
Game bird chicks depend on bugs and insects for their first couple weeks of life. Pesticides eliminate their food source,seen it happen all over this state :(
Post by: luvtohnt on December 03, 2008, 08:50:12 AM
Brandon
Post by: Intruder on December 03, 2008, 09:15:52 AM
Very good point. I read somewhere, cant remember the article or magazine, that in 2005 there was some 5-600,000 acres of crp that was lost throughout America. Everyone wanted to replant the land with wheat because of the price. That is alot of habitat.
Brandon
The Bio-fuel BS is also playing a large role in loss of habitat. I don't have any problem w/ alternate fuels but the American public has been fed a line of crap in respect to the viability of Bio-fuels making a real difference in oil consumption. When you start looking at the other impacts (like habitat loss and high food prices) and couple it with the fact that there's no way to produce enough bio-fuel to come close to sustaining our fuel needs it's a real shame (or maybe more accurately... sham). Sorry didn't mean to :jacked:.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 03, 2008, 09:18:23 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 03, 2008, 09:24:40 AM
Post by: Intruder on December 03, 2008, 09:32:00 AM
I read the study, and it does seem promising. Does anybody know of the WDFW working with any farmers via the Farm Bill or anything of that sort? I have never heard of any in the Yakima Valley, but my experience is limited to there only. I have hunted some public CRP ground on the Snake, very over-hunted, very few birds. I think the Yakama Reservation has two great factors working for its pheasants still: they farm the old way, watering via ditches that provide cover; and the "Feel Free To Hunt" lands that they set aside to let go provide great cover. They seem to work best when they are next to a food source... corn, asparagas, etc. If this was implemented state-wide, we would have more birds. Our farmers would just have to care about pheasants, like they do in the Dakotas.I know there has been some work w/ farmers in Whitman county but much of it has been slowed down due to price increases in crops. Farmers are hesitant to devote lands to habitat when they can get 10 bucks a bushell for wheat or put their land into bio-fuel crops. There may be some relief w/ oil prices down and wheat prices around 5 bucks.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 03, 2008, 10:46:40 AM
Post by: shorthair-on-point on December 03, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
On a side note: I think the harvest numbers that they publish are total BS. They show Whitman county pheasant harvest at 15000 + birds. That means on average there are a 165 birds a day killed throughout the season. Put another way that means 50+ guys a day have to shoot their limits every day of the season. There's no way. Apart from opening weekend, Thanksgiving weekend, and parents weekend at WSU I'd be shocked if their are 50 guys even hunting on most weekend days.... let alone all shooting limits or hunting during the week. Their harvest reports are full of crap.Intruder
I agree. The numbers are BS now. Those of us that hunt them know how bad it really has become. Those numbers include released birds and private game farm birds now. The state released birds alone account for over 25,000 pheasants state wide.
Post by: shorthair-on-point on December 03, 2008, 02:36:07 PM
Post by: jjhunter on December 03, 2008, 03:50:48 PM
Post by: Gamblin Guy on December 03, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
From the conversations I've had with the farmer who lets us hunt his place, JJ's got it right.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 03, 2008, 04:45:22 PM
Post by: hornhunter on December 03, 2008, 08:05:56 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 03, 2008, 08:08:23 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 03, 2008, 08:26:31 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 03, 2008, 08:31:37 PM
Post by: yelp on December 03, 2008, 08:40:33 PM
Another comment on the pheasant releases...The legislature voted to purchase pheasants for hunters via the small game license. $10.00 per small game license goes to purchase pheasants. The WDFW really was forced to get back into the game farm/pheasant release issue. Habitat is the key not game farm birds. Also WDFW used to have pheasant farms all over the state the cost was about $15.00/bird from egg to release. Now the State Prisons and a few remaining game farms raise the pheasants you see released. It would be nice to see that money purchase habitat or enhancements instead of pheasants. I think it would be a wiser investment. :twocents:
Post by: yelp on December 03, 2008, 08:42:05 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 04, 2008, 12:10:22 AM
Value your opinion, but totally disagree. But this isn't the place for that on this forum. I'm going to start a topic on the elk forum. Check it out.
And habitat is the key. Period.
Post by: hornhunter on December 04, 2008, 08:28:57 AM
A few places For now Ill say mostly wildlife areas up and down the Columbia river frow the Wahluke North ( I havnt hunted much S or E) All the feeders seem to be un used, I realize They are used outside of the hunting seasons, but some were filled with bushes and there is NO way they could be used anytime. Some were OK and some are run down.
You dont know much about sustaining a good Elk heard do you bobcat.........dont feed them = dont hunt them.
Post by: shorthair-on-point on December 04, 2008, 09:04:48 AM
The feed stations for elk are more about keeping the elk out of farmers fields in the winter than keeping elk alive that would starve without the feed stations.
Post by: Intruder on December 04, 2008, 09:42:52 AM
Growing up in Colfax and belonging to a farming family, I would have to strongly disagree with lack of habitat, 10 dollar wheat, etc as exuses for lack of birds in Whitman. In 1994, there was very little CRP in Whitman county - the amount of CRP cover that we have today is 10 fold what we had 10 or 11 years ago. We had 10 dollar wheat for one year - have you looked at recent wheat prices???? I can also tell you that very little CRP came out to plant crop! Farmers could barely afford to plant the fall crop this year with inflated diesel and fertilizer costs. The harsh winter and wet spring are the reasons you are not seeing birds. Three years ago was the best pheasant year we ever had. You would see 500 birds a day easy on our place. This year you will be lucky to see 40. This is not from overhunting or lack of habitat - we allow very limited hunting and the habitat was outstanding this year with the wet spring. My :twocents:Your facts are spot on correct in respect to the amount of CRP and certainly the market influences on farming. However, there is one aspect to the whole CRP scenario that I've seen in Eastern WA, it is by and large very poor quality habitat for pheasant nesting and wintering. Also, the quality of CRP varies drastically state by state. There also seems to be major differences in how it is managed. CRP fields that aren't managed tend to hold fewer and fewer birds year after year. Those that have regular management maintain their levels.
For pheasants, the wintering and nesting habitat is where the rubber meets the road and that's why there's such inconsistencies in E. WA. When you compare habitat in the states that have huge numbers of pheasants like MT and SD, the abundance of thick heavy wintering/nesting habitat is astounding. Couple that with higher quality CRP and the effects are easy to see.
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2008, 06:44:31 PM
You dont know much about sustaining a good Elk heard do you bobcat.........dont feed them = dont hunt them.
Sure I do. If they had good habitat and good winter range that man hadn't converted to housing and crops, then they wouldn't need to be fed. Do you realize not all states have to feed their elk? How do you think elk survived the winters before we got here?
Post by: 270Shooter on December 04, 2008, 06:54:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2008, 07:02:30 PM
Post by: hornhunter on December 04, 2008, 09:46:01 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 04, 2008, 11:03:53 PM
By just volunteering to manage a feeder or two, the state should give you feed. My dad and I help manage a feeder for turkeys outside of yakima, and all we do is drop by the game dept to pick up the 50lb sack. Give it a try.
Post by: hornhunter on December 06, 2008, 08:02:36 AM
I think that sounds like a great idea. I will look into that. Ill continue to look for hurting feeders the rest of the season. ;)
Post by: guyg on December 06, 2008, 08:06:31 AM
For habitat, in dryland areas, things are worse than the 60's-early 70's, when all the fencerows were in. Things are better than the late 80's-90's, when everybody plowed and farmed everything.
In irrigated ground, frankly, given the chemigation programs and the practices of industrial agriculture, it's amazing anything is alive.
Wild bird production went gunnybag the year the idiout legislator from Gig Harbor decided that pheasant release as practiced on the west side should be done statewide. After that, all the funding left the wild bird program, and now they release prison raised birds. In western WA, so be it. In eastern WA, it feeds the coyotes and the hawks.
We could have both, but we won't because there isn't enough money for both and the majority of W.Washington hunters want release programs in Eastern Wa. Look at where they are. Yes, they are exactly like planted trout programs, and it is easy to measure performance: raised x birds, deployed x birds, observed y hunters, = x/y birds per hunter. Success.
Promote habitat, access and wild birds through chick raising programs in 4H and other civic clubs along with limited feeding programs, promote ethical hunting and tourism, and all of a sudden it works, the populations become able to naturally survive down condition years, but success is difficult to measure precisely. See turkeys. Promote hucking chickens out of the back of the truck so prisoners have something to do, and you have what we have.
Promote wild fish and the values that create them, and you have a sustainable fishery. Promote hatcheries, you have what we have. Can't wait until they try to fix the "mule deer problem".
I think to fix this minds need to change in the public, the legislature, and the department.
Post by: Intruder on December 08, 2008, 08:22:51 AM
Post by: yelp on December 08, 2008, 05:55:08 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on December 08, 2008, 06:09:36 PM
For nesting and reproduction, some years are good, some years are bad. This year, not so good.You are right on guyg,but the only problem with it is it just makes too much sense.
For habitat, in dryland areas, things are worse than the 60's-early 70's, when all the fencerows were in. Things are better than the late 80's-90's, when everybody plowed and farmed everything.
In irrigated ground, frankly, given the chemigation programs and the practices of industrial agriculture, it's amazing anything is alive.
Wild bird production went gunnybag the year the idiout legislator from Gig Harbor decided that pheasant release as practiced on the west side should be done statewide. After that, all the funding left the wild bird program, and now they release prison raised birds. In western WA, so be it. In eastern WA, it feeds the coyotes and the hawks.
We could have both, but we won't because there isn't enough money for both and the majority of W.Washington hunters want release programs in Eastern Wa. Look at where they are. Yes, they are exactly like planted trout programs, and it is easy to measure performance: raised x birds, deployed x birds, observed y hunters, = x/y birds per hunter. Success.
Promote habitat, access and wild birds through chick raising programs in 4H and other civic clubs along with limited feeding programs, promote ethical hunting and tourism, and all of a sudden it works, the populations become able to naturally survive down condition years, but success is difficult to measure precisely. See turkeys. Promote hucking chickens out of the back of the truck so prisoners have something to do, and you have what we have.
Promote wild fish and the values that create them, and you have a sustainable fishery. Promote hatcheries, you have what we have. Can't wait until they try to fix the "mule deer problem".
I think to fix this minds need to change in the public, the legislature, and the department.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 08, 2008, 10:32:04 PM