Post by: Tbob on June 27, 2014, 09:52:05 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 27, 2014, 10:08:52 AM
Post by: grundy53 on June 27, 2014, 10:10:53 AM
Just curious for all the wetside elk hunters out there, if you happen to shoot a hoff-Rot elk, will you eat it? Do you feel it's safe enough to feed to your family and friends?I won't intentionally shoot one. But if I inadvertently kill one it would depend on how bad it is.
sent from my typewriter
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 27, 2014, 10:19:00 AM
in all seriousness the elk I have dealt woth that had hoof rot had a noticeably smaller quarter on the infected hoof but didnt smell or taste any different.. texture has always been normal etc. I have heard stories on here of hoof rot with basically no muscle left but mine haven't been that bad.
Post by: Pacific on June 27, 2014, 10:20:59 AM
Post by: kentrek on June 27, 2014, 10:46:05 AM
You wont get a solid answer on if its safe because they dont know what it is...
Lots of these elk have been ate tho...so short term it doesn't appear to cause any problems
Post by: elkhunter00 on June 27, 2014, 10:47:54 AM
Post by: Big6bull on June 27, 2014, 11:10:15 AM
Very bad business ethic if you ask me...
Post by: bobcat on June 27, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F28%2Fu7y2ejuj.jpg&hash=f4c9ea976852bb23e079ac4801055a9b19834bad)
Post by: Bob33 on June 27, 2014, 11:18:17 AM
Post by: Mike450r on June 27, 2014, 11:27:48 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on June 27, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on June 27, 2014, 12:01:54 PM
Post by: Johnb317 on June 27, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
Beef is graded after the animal is slaughtered and skinned.
In other words I'd look at, and smell the meat.
I think of it as human toenail fungus gone crazy. :yike:
Post by: Stizz on June 27, 2014, 01:59:20 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on June 27, 2014, 02:10:05 PM
Post by: snowpack on June 27, 2014, 02:12:02 PM
Post by: TheHunt on June 27, 2014, 02:12:50 PM
Post by: hirshey on June 27, 2014, 02:20:54 PM
They were all consumed with no incident to the persons, though. :dunno:
Post by: PolarBear on June 27, 2014, 02:23:04 PM
Post by: RadSav on June 27, 2014, 02:23:47 PM
Post by: Bob33 on June 27, 2014, 02:39:23 PM
I highly doubt they would say it is safe to eat, and give it away to food banks if they considered the risk to be of any significance.
Post by: Eli346 on June 27, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Post by: JJB11B on June 27, 2014, 03:34:32 PM
Theres alot of different levels of hoof rot...if its bad enough yo make ya think twice then call fish and game and request for your tag back.... it may be just rumour but ive heard this is a possibilityI know of two people last year who shot animals with some sort of disease and the game dept. traded the bad animal for a new tag. FWIW
You wont get a solid answer on if its safe because they dont know what it is...
Lots of these elk have been ate tho...so short term it doesn't appear to cause any problems
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 27, 2014, 03:55:36 PM
Post by: Goldeneye on June 27, 2014, 04:03:13 PM
My stomach has been hurting , I best go see the doctor :yike:
Showing any signs of foot rot?
Post by: Mudman on June 27, 2014, 04:22:26 PM
Post by: gaddy on June 27, 2014, 04:31:49 PM
Post by: RadSav on June 27, 2014, 04:58:59 PM
after seeing the recent studies that this is caused by chemicals I would say no ( a lot have been posted on this site). what are the levels? the state gives guidelines as to the amount of fish that can be consumed from our rivers by giving results to study's conducted on levels of contamination. can they do the same for wild game ?
What studies would that be?
I'm one that has not come to a preliminary conclusion as the cause or diagnosis of the hoof rot issue. Though I have been trying to read as many things as I can get my hands on from both WDFW and other sources. In none of these have I seen a study that shows hoof rot is caused by chemicals. I have seen more than one semi-scientific theory that claims the chemicals have lowered the immune system to a point of allowing the affliction to occur. And I find one of those theories to be the most logical and practical at this time. But not enough to get me to form an opinion yet. And it is definitely not a strong enough argument to get me to give up eating westside elk. Even if I do suffer from athletes foot each summer ;)
In regards to limiting intake of fish that generally has to do with elevated levels of mercury in bottom feeders like cat fish and sturgeon. Though it is strange that many also include tuna in that category which is about as far away from a bottom feeder as it gets!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 27, 2014, 07:12:12 PM
Not here ...we just have tribal rot ;)My stomach has been hurting , I best go see the doctor :yike:
Showing any signs of foot rot?
Post by: mtman on June 27, 2014, 07:17:41 PM
Post by: steen on June 27, 2014, 07:19:58 PM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on June 30, 2014, 09:51:11 PM
Post by: hillbillyhunting on July 01, 2014, 08:55:54 PM
Post by: chester on July 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 02, 2014, 07:48:41 AM
If the animal looks healthy aside from the hoof ... I'd eat it.
Beef is graded after the animal is slaughtered and skinned.
In other words I'd look at, and smell the meat.
I think of it as human toenail fungus gone crazy. :yike:
The condition is being compared to hoof rot in domestic animals. I have seen no compelling evidence to suggest that it's the same disease. The WDFW tells us that they know what's causing this, but even a USDA scientist expressed her doubts as to whether this is the same disease. Personally, I would not eat these animals. If the disease they have is in fact leptospirosis, it can be transferred to humans and, in some cases, causes sever organ damage and even death. I kind of liken it to eating wild mushrooms. No free mushroom is worth dying for. If you don't know what it is, leave it in the woods. I feel the same about the affected animals.
Post by: headshot5 on July 02, 2014, 08:17:27 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 02, 2014, 08:21:37 AM
I've eaten a few. They were in early stages of hoof rot. You can usually gauge how bad off an elk is by general overall appearance. If their eyes are sunk in and ribs sticking out I would pass. I agree also on the smell and look of the meat. I'm not afraid of a little hoof rot. The problem is what else the infected elk has picked up after months of hobbling around getting weaker. Piano, if you only saw some of the animals that go to slaughter...
I'm not doubting the safety of eating domestic animals with hoof rot, although there are lots of practices with the meat we buy that are really disturbing. I'm doubting that it's the same disease with elk. :dunno: If it isn't, and I don't know that for sure, eating them could be a real health risk.
Post by: headshot5 on July 02, 2014, 08:48:10 AM
Quote
If it isn't, and I don't know that for sure, eating them could be a real health risk.
Everybody has to die of something, and it generally isn't happiness! What I meant is I trust my judgement on suitable meat, but some of the animals that I have seen get sent to slaughter, I wouldn't feed my dog. So, I'm skeptical of slaughterhouse's judement. There are risks anytime you eat wild game. I grew up on a farm, so I am comfortable making a judgement call based off of a short observation of the animal.
I won't judge anyone for passing on a limping elk. Everyone has to make a choice based on what they are comfortable with. I'd prefer to kill non-limping elk myself.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 02, 2014, 09:26:20 AM
QuoteIf it isn't, and I don't know that for sure, eating them could be a real health risk.
Everybody has to die of something, and it generally isn't happiness! What I meant is I trust my judgement on suitable meat, but some of the animals that I have seen get sent to slaughter, I wouldn't feed my dog. So, I'm skeptical of slaughterhouse's judement. There are risks anytime you eat wild game. I grew up on a farm, so I am comfortable making a judgement call based off of a short observation of the animal.
I won't judge anyone for passing on a limping elk. Everyone has to make a choice based on what they are comfortable with. I'd prefer to kill non-limping elk myself.
You're implying that your experience with domestic animals qualifies you to make the judgement call on affected elk. I would agree with this were I confident that it's the same disease. I'm not, however. You can't make a judgement call on something you can't see. If the disease is actually leptospirosis, the symptoms of the disease are quite similar to domestic hoof rot - the hooves grow more rapidly and become deformed or fall of. But the disease is quite different. Zoonoses are diseases which can be contracted from animals by humans. Leptospirosis is one of these diseases. Domestic hoof disease is not. One of the objections from the USDA scientist at the June 3rd meeting is that if this IS the same disease, it seems to be manifesting differently. Whereas domestic hoof disease doesn't create atrophy of the muscle tissue, elk hoof disease does. This may be due to the ability to treat the hooves with antibiotic baths. But because the WDFW has no plans to capture and treat live affected animals as has been requested by Dr. Boone Mora, we'll apparently never know.
Yes, you do have to die from something. Does that mean that you should put a 220V wire in your mouth to find out if it's going to hurt you? If your answer is yes, then you should feel fine doing the same with affected elk meat.
Post by: jongosch on July 02, 2014, 09:43:17 AM
Now check this out. From the National Center for Biotechnology Information:
"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/)
I don't see any reason why elk would be safer than cattle in this regard. And it's not likely that you're going to immediately feel sick if you eat meat that's full of herbicides, but in the long run they may make you more susceptible to all sorts of health problems. As much as I love elk meat, I'm personally going to error on the side of caution and I think all hunters should have access to as much information as possible so they can make intelligent, informed decisions. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of reliable information about how these herbicides get passed up the food chain. Why not??? And what are we going to do to fix this problem?
Post by: Tilley Rd on July 02, 2014, 09:51:05 AM
Nobody knows for sure what it is !
Most likely and probably safe.
Not good enough.
Post by: headshot5 on July 02, 2014, 10:33:25 AM
Quote
Yes, you do have to die from something. Does that mean that you should put a 220V wire in your mouth to find out if it's going to hurt you? If your answer is yes, then you should feel fine doing the same with affected elk meat.
Like I said everyone has to make calls based on their comfort level. Leptospirosis is also pretty well documented in almost all domestic animals. That being said abosolutely anything can kill you. Weigh the risks and decide whether or not to put the bubble-boy suit on. Do I target hoof rot elk for eating... No. Will I eat an animal that I think will make me sick... No. I try to take every precaution (I'm and engineer its in my nature). I could switch to a vegetarian diet, but you still have to worry about salmonella and so on... There is no sure fire way to keep from getting sick so every individual has to choose what risk level they take in life. I've chosen mine, and so far it has kept me alive. I don't run around willy nilly licking every hoof/or missing hoof of every dead elk I find. I know is hard to judge someone by a few sentences on the internet and thus the default is to judge harshly. Luckily, I'm confident with my decisions, and I have a healthy level of fear that helps me make solid decisions and take necessary precautions. Oh and my tongue is definitely a volt/amp/ohm meter. That is why my eyes sparkle and I don't have much nose hair.
I'm more scared of the level of STD's out there than sick elk. That my friend is a gamble. I'm not planning on giving up hunting so I guess I'm a risk taker.
Post by: boomstick on July 02, 2014, 11:24:40 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on July 02, 2014, 11:32:47 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 02, 2014, 11:43:36 AM
If you did, how was it?
Did you notice any odd taste or smells while it was cooking?
How about general quality, was it tougher than "normal" or stringy or anything that made if different from any other elk you have cooked?
Did you or your family have any issues after eating any of the meat, like upset stomaches, or such?
Thanks for sharing the picture, it really shows a good example of what folks have been describing.
Post by: throttlejocky20 on July 02, 2014, 03:23:46 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on July 02, 2014, 06:18:22 PM
A buddy shot one in the Winston and the whole thing stunk. While trying to process the meat the closer to the bone the more it stunk. The bones were actually a greenish color. The meat was a complete wast and he was not able to get another tag. If i know the animal had hoof rot i would pass for sure.
That sounds like bone sour and has nothing to do with hoof rot.
Post by: Curly on July 02, 2014, 06:43:27 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on July 02, 2014, 07:39:23 PM
Post by: mtman on July 02, 2014, 07:51:19 PM
Post by: yorketransport on July 02, 2014, 08:34:22 PM
I certainly wouldn't target an infected animal, but I wouldn't walk away from a downed animal just because it had the rot.
Andrew
Post by: Curly on July 02, 2014, 09:19:51 PM
Who said anything about right after kill, he said he was processing it. We don't know the facts about his kill but it sounds kust like bone sour. I have seen bone sour start in as little as 8 hours after a gut shot kill that wasn't found till the next morning even though it was 26 degrees out.Well hopefully throttlejocky will clarify; I guess I was assuming he knows his way around butchering game. I've read stories about elk so far gone that they stunk when the hunter went up to them. But you are right it does sound like bone sour. I've also herd stories of a couple elk being put out of their misery when they could barely hold their head up......I would imagine that those elk might have a fowl smell to their meat?
Post by: throttlejocky20 on August 14, 2014, 08:21:59 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2014, 08:31:29 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 14, 2014, 08:40:29 AM
I've read stories about elk so far gone that they stunk when the hunter went up to them.
:chuckle: I've never been close to an elk that didn't stink.
Post by: Big6bull on August 14, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
Post by: Carnivore on August 14, 2014, 12:35:42 PM
Post by: Mudman on August 14, 2014, 12:47:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 14, 2014, 01:03:51 PM
Everything in life is not the government's fault.
Post by: headshot5 on August 14, 2014, 01:19:59 PM
Quote
Funny, everyone criticizing the WDFW for telling us the meat is safe to eat. If you don't believe them, and you don't feel the meat is safe, then don't hunt elk in SW Washington.
Everything in life is not the government's fault.
I'm with you on this Bobcat. It really is up to the person who is going to eat the animal and their comfort level. As I have mentioned before, I have no problem evaluating elk meat and deciding if it is fit for me to consume. All wild meat should be evaluated this way, not just elk with hoof disease.
Post by: Mudman on August 14, 2014, 09:25:01 PM
Post by: Axle on August 14, 2014, 09:29:46 PM
Quote
:chuckle: I've never been close to an elk that didn't stink.
Ya - but it's a good stink :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: BiggLuke on August 14, 2014, 09:58:05 PM
Just curious for all the wetside elk hunters out there, if you happen to shoot a hoff-Rot elk, will you eat it? Do you feel it's safe enough to feed to your family and friends?
Unless your family has hoofs... shouldn't be a concern
I willing to bet a large portion of all the fast food beef you eat has some hoof rot
Post by: Mudman on August 14, 2014, 10:40:20 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 15, 2014, 05:26:20 AM
Funny, everyone criticizing the WDFW for telling us the meat is safe to eat. If you don't believe them, and you don't feel the meat is safe, then don't hunt elk in SW Washington.
Everything in life is not the government's fault.
No one said that everything is the government's fault. No one has ever said hoof disease is the government's fault. But, if the meat is in fact unsafe to eat and people consume it because they believe it's safe - that IS the government's fault. Knowing the disease has been around for 20 years and not doing anything about it until 2008 - that's the government's fault. Hiding the fact that the disease actually exists in other parts of the Northwest even after they've been questioned about it publicly - that's the government's fault.
Post by: TheHunt on August 15, 2014, 06:21:57 AM
Post by: headshot5 on August 15, 2014, 06:47:25 AM
Quote
My elk did not have hoof rot but it was really skinny and obviously something wrong. I got 25 lbs of weird tasting meat back from the butcher. Butcher said it was worste he has ever seen and wdfw have reissued tags for less. We have been eating it and havnt been sick or anything but I am pretty unsure about the whole thing. Wdfw was not helpful and they made me never want to support them ever again...
I definitely wouldn't eat the meat if it is weird tasting. The butcher also said it was the worst he had seen! That is a red flag to me.
Post by: Big6bull on August 15, 2014, 02:36:23 PM
QuoteMy elk did not have hoof rot but it was really skinny and obviously something wrong. I got 25 lbs of weird tasting meat back from the butcher. Butcher said it was worste he has ever seen and wdfw have reissued tags for less. We have been eating it and havnt been sick or anything but I am pretty unsure about the whole thing. Wdfw was not helpful and they made me never want to support them ever again...
I definitely wouldn't eat the meat if it is weird tasting. The butcher also said it was the worst he had seen! That is a red flag to me.
Butcher said is was safe and wdfw. What got me mad was wdfw were not even gonna look at it to begin with. And when I asked about possibly getting my points back they said they aren't doing that this year... Waited 6 years to draw that cow tag. If I knew the animal was sick I would not have shot it.
Post by: Mudman on August 15, 2014, 08:47:13 PM
Post by: Wiley on August 16, 2014, 08:37:16 PM