Post by: Bob33 on June 30, 2014, 12:03:11 PM
Two weeks later, I am still without a functional muzzleloader. A few days after purchasing the rifle, I blocked out an afternoon to begin load development at a local range. I invited an experienced muzzleloader shooter to accompany me. He blocked out his afternoon. After getting targets and equipment set up, I put a cap on to ensure the gun would fire. It would not. We tried different caps of various types with different nipples. Nothing ignited. A wasted afternoon.
I called Sportsmen’s Warehouse to see if I could exchange or return the rifle. The manager told that their policy does not allow a firearm to be returned under any circumstances. I told him it was defective and had never been fired. “Too bad – deal with Knight.”
I called Knight the following Monday morning. The recorded message said “This is our off-season. We will be back in the fall. Please leave a message.” Off season, three months before the start of hunting seasons? What’s up with that, Knight?
I left a voice message. About three days later I finally got an email from a Knight representative. I replied and explained what the issues were. I didn’t get a reply for more than 24 hours so I emailed him again. I finally got a reply that told me to back out the breech plug and try again. After backing out the breech plug a full ½ turn, I was able to ignite a primer. I’m not an expert, but the thought of hunting with a breech plug that isn’t fully engaged all the way and is free to move doesn’t seem like an appropriate solution for a new gun. The Knight rep agreed to send me a new breech plug. That was last week. I’ve yet to receive one.
In addition, the bolt on this rifle is so tight that it nearly takes two hands to lift and cock. I’ve been told by another member on here (he can chime in if he wishes) that he’s seen this symptom on some other new Knight rifles as well, and considers it to be a quality issue.
My conclusions: as for Knight - the company that “inspects and tests” their rifles before shipping but still sells rifles that won't ignite a primer, the company which has an “off season” when hunters are getting ready for the fall? Their quality and customer service do not match their rhetoric. I’d be hard pressed to buy another Knight product, or to recommend it to friends.
Sportsmen’s Warehouse - I will never buy another firearm from them unless they have a change in policy. Any company that sells defective merchandise and won’t take care of its customers does not deserve my business.
Post by: Bean Counter on June 30, 2014, 12:07:24 PM
Post by: jackelope on June 30, 2014, 12:15:44 PM
Maybe Sabotloader has a contact at Knight Rifles he can reach out to.
:dunno:
Post by: MountainDevil54 on June 30, 2014, 12:25:41 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 30, 2014, 12:27:22 PM
Post by: Mfowl on June 30, 2014, 12:40:59 PM
P.S. I would not feel comfortable shooting with my breech plug backed out at all! Hope this all works out for you!
Post by: bobcat on June 30, 2014, 03:28:48 PM
I just recently became aware of some of the rifles CVA is producing that are legal here in Washington. I was never interested in CVA before but they've got my attention now.
If you can get refunded on that Knight, try this one: http://www.cva.com/CVA-Store-View.php?id=628 (http://www.cva.com/CVA-Store-View.php?id=628)
The cost is less than half of what you paid for the Knight.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 30, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Post by: MarkyMark on June 30, 2014, 03:40:12 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on June 30, 2014, 03:48:28 PM
The off season thing is absolute BS.
Post by: MountainDevil54 on June 30, 2014, 04:08:24 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on June 30, 2014, 04:54:17 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 30, 2014, 05:04:28 PM
Post by: The100Road on June 30, 2014, 05:18:26 PM
Post by: grundy53 on June 30, 2014, 06:54:01 PM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Bob33 on June 30, 2014, 07:18:36 PM
Off season??? That ridiculous.For a hunting equipment company, it sure is. Add to that a retailer that hides behind a policy and ignores customer satisfaction, and it makes for a bad combination.
sent from my typewriter
Post by: bear hunter on June 30, 2014, 09:09:07 PM
Post by: swift on June 30, 2014, 09:54:54 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on July 02, 2014, 07:18:30 AM
I share his concerns, in fact at the same time he got his new Ultra-Lite I got one also with the same problems. I was able to work through the problems because I was able to easily understand what the problems were.
Bob and I really had two problem...
1. This run of breech plug was manufactured to short. The manufacture of the breech plug calls for a plug that is 1.35" long. The new BP that Knight received were 1.2+". This is not long enough for the hammer to reach the nipple post. Knight was unaware of the problem until Bob identified his problems.
2. The hammer shroud or the Western Bolt - either one does or could have a tolerance problem also that can effect the smooth operation of the bolt. And again I believe these were new parts received from the sub-contractor. I am hoping that Knight responds to the problem and get them corrected quickly.
The off season thing... bugs the heck out of me and I believe even some people within Knight. It comes down to the cost of operation. I believe they are trying to save money by cutting back staff in what they call the 'Off Season'. Again my personal belief is there is no 'off season' when it comes to service.
I really do hope Bob or anyone else that gets these problems from the current run of Knight Western Edition ML's gets the problems fixed promptly.
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2014, 07:48:48 AM
I really do hope Bob or anyone else that gets these problems from the current run of Knight Western Edition ML's gets the problems fixed promptly.
Sounds like promptly isn't going to happen because it's the "off-season".
:dunno:
It would almost make more sense for the Knight people to call their off-season during hunting season...when guys aren't preparing for hunting season by shooting their rifles, load development, etc. That is when their problems are going to be discovered.
This thread has dissolved any interest I had in buying a Knight rifle. I'll stick with my T/C until they get these issues resolved.
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 02, 2014, 08:23:16 AM
So sorry to hear of your problems, but I THANK YOU for posting this. I am an archery hunter that drew a muzzy tag this year and am only days away from buying a complete set up. I was leaning towards the CVA until I started reading threads on here about how "superior" KNIGHT is. :dunno: :dunno:
You have convinced me that I will not be doing any business with Knight.
Any company that has to close down their Customer Service to save costs, is a company on it's way to closing their doors or restructuring their business.... not good. :twocents:
Thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. :tup:
Brian
Post by: The100Road on July 02, 2014, 08:26:03 AM
Bob,
So sorry to hear of your problems, but I THANK YOU for posting this. I am an archery hunter that drew a muzzy tag this year and am only days away from buying a complete set up. I was leaning towards the CVA until I started reading threads on here about how "superior" KNIGHT is. :dunno: :dunno:
You have convinced me that I will not be doing any business with Knight.
Any company that has to close down their Customer Service to save costs, is a company on it's way to closing their doors or restructuring their business.... not good. :twocents:
Thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. :tup:
Brian
Im sure most have some sort of flaw. Might want to check with CVA as well. I had a elkhorn that the safety worked whenever it wanted to.
Post by: Sabotloader on July 02, 2014, 11:29:24 AM
Bob,
So sorry to hear of your problems, but I THANK YOU for posting this. I am an archery hunter that drew a muzzy tag this year and am only days away from buying a complete set up. I was leaning towards the CVA until I started reading threads on here about how "superior" KNIGHT is. :dunno: :dunno:
You have convinced me that I will not be doing any business with Knight.
Any company that has to close down their Customer Service to save costs, is a company on it's way to closing their doors or restructuring their business.... not good. :twocents:
Thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. :tup:
Brian
Brian, that is part of the problem - this new Knight company is recovering the previous owners possible mistakes and now they are rebuilding under new ownership. In that effort I believe they are trying to be frugal and reduce costs while maintaining a quality product. That statement does not sound that good right now but the Knight Rifle is a quality rifle and these bumps will be worked out - in fact I am positive one of the two problems has been corrected and the second one is being addressed.
I have complete faith in the Knight rifles that I have and the two news ones that I just received. Because of my experiences with the new Knight I would still recommend then to most other products.
Like most new companies - I really hope they work through the bumps and continue to offer Knight rifles.
Post by: birddogdad on July 02, 2014, 11:49:25 AM
the squeeky wheel often works. thanks for this info, i for one, will use as a reference in my future blackpowder decisions....
Post by: Bob33 on July 02, 2014, 12:05:03 PM
Yesterday I spoke with the manager at the Sportsmens Warehouse, and he agreed to exchange the gun for me. Good for them.
This morning I finally (two weeks after having purchased a defective product) received a call from someone at Knight willing and able to assist me. He asked me to not return the gun to the store, but rather return it directly to Knight. He promised that he is shipping me a new rifle directly from Knight, and it should arrive in 5 business days. I should have a tracking number by tomorrow. If I do, and if the gun ships as promised, and if the gun is not defective when it arrives, then my loss is three weeks of test time, which is not insignificant.
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
We shall see.
Post by: Sabotloader on July 02, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
UPDATE. "The wheels of justice turn slowly".
Yesterday I spoke with the manager at the Sportsmens Warehouse, and he agreed to exchange the gun for me. Good for them.
This morning I finally (two weeks after having purchased a defective product) received a call from someone at Knight willing and able to assist me. He asked me to not return the gun to the store, but rather return it directly to Knight. He promised that he is shipping me a new rifle directly from Knight, and it should arrive in 5 business days. I should have a tracking number by tomorrow. If I do, and if the gun ships as promised, and if the gun is not defective when it arrives, then my loss is three weeks of test time, which is not insignificant.
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
We shall see.
Bob... Knight should have exercised this option in the first place - we both know that! I would bet you a dime to a dollar that one guy in the Knight organization knows that also - just wish he was the owner sometimes. Although I can not bad mouth the new owners that much because they did rescue Knight after the bottom fell out.
When this is all worked out I am sure that you will like the rifle, the way it shoots and handles.
mike
Post by: bearpaw on July 02, 2014, 12:22:12 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2014, 12:22:58 PM
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
Novel concept.
Glad to hear you're making some headway.
Post by: HntnFsh on July 02, 2014, 12:33:25 PM
I feel that things like this are bound to happen. Its how they are taken care of that defines a business. They are taking a step in the right direction to redeem themselves. But with the amount of time it took. They aren't accomplishing that 100 percent.
I'm still a Knight diehard!
Post by: trophyhunt on July 02, 2014, 12:34:50 PM
Bob,Hey Bri, let me know when you order that gun. I'm really interested in the CVA also, very nice looking gun and I love the small holes in the breech!
So sorry to hear of your problems, but I THANK YOU for posting this. I am an archery hunter that drew a muzzy tag this year and am only days away from buying a complete set up. I was leaning towards the CVA until I started reading threads on here about how "superior" KNIGHT is. :dunno: :dunno:
You have convinced me that I will not be doing any business with Knight.
Any company that has to close down their Customer Service to save costs, is a company on it's way to closing their doors or restructuring their business.... not good. :twocents:
Thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. :tup:
Brian
Post by: gunnarnewt on July 02, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 02, 2014, 12:40:01 PM
I asked why they didn't before. He said some customers complained about receiving a dirty gun. I've purchased lots and lots of centerfires, and to the best of my knowledge every one was actually tested fired - not just primers but real bullets down the barrel. It never bothered med. Muzzleloader guys must be weird. :hunter:
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
Novel concept.
Glad to hear you're making some headway.
Post by: whacker1 on July 02, 2014, 12:44:41 PM
I asked why they didn't before. He said some customers complained about receiving a dirty gun. I've purchased lots and lots of centerfires, and to the best of my knowledge every one was actually tested fired - not just primers but real bullets down the barrel. It never bothered med. Muzzleloader guys must be weird. :hunter:
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
Novel concept.
Glad to hear you're making some headway.
not wierd, muzzleloaders are very hard to get clean in comparison to a rifle. Most muzzleloader manufacturers don't like to clean them after test firing as they have added time and cost with each weapon. It is much more cumbersome than cleaning a centerfire rifle. Also muzzleloader powder(s) are much more corrosive than smokeless powder if they don't do a good job cleaining them. I am not saying the test policy isn't flawed, but I would bet that Traditions and CVA don't test fire all their weapons either. Should they "yes", but I don't think they do.
Post by: Bob33 on July 02, 2014, 12:47:37 PM
Just to fire a cap?I asked why they didn't before. He said some customers complained about receiving a dirty gun. I've purchased lots and lots of centerfires, and to the best of my knowledge every one was actually tested fired - not just primers but real bullets down the barrel. It never bothered med. Muzzleloader guys must be weird. :hunter:
He said that Knight just started actually test firing their muzzleloaders to ensure they work before shipping.
Novel concept.
Glad to hear you're making some headway.
not wierd, muzzleloaders are very hard to get clean in comparison to a rifle. Most muzzleloader manufacturers don't like to clean them after test firing as they have added time and cost with each weapon. It is much more cumbersome than cleaning a centerfire rifle. Also muzzleloader powder(s) are much more corrosive than smokeless powder if they don't do a good job cleaining them. I am not saying the test policy isn't flawed, but I would bet that Traditions and CVA don't test fire all their weapons either. Should they "yes", but I don't think they do.
Post by: Sabotloader on July 02, 2014, 02:58:51 PM
I did get mine setup and ready to shoot - now I just need the weather to cooperate and cool off - 90's is just to hot...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520ULite%2520%2520-14%2FP1010007.jpg&hash=32a16a5d4181f3040757587b18ee1b3d3819878d) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20ULite%20%20-14/P1010007.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520ULite%2520%2520-14%2FP1010008.jpg&hash=fe9adcf5f9cdba605e4206c8dcb71dc630e4ce83) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20ULite%20%20-14/P1010008.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520ULite%2520%2520-14%2FP1010009.jpg&hash=db8d877324dcdf48cb1347088156e6fd1882eace) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20ULite%20%20-14/P1010009.jpg.html)
One reason they do not fire them might be the barrels are treated with Bore Coat before shipping. It requires a drying time then shooting time to cure the chemicals. Cleaning them prematurely 'could' effect the effects of the bore coat.
I know they use to shoot every #?? number of rifles that they assembled. I do not know if they still do that or not...
Personally and this is just me... I do not want a pre-fired ML - I want to do my thing before the rifle is fired or even elect to not fire it all so that it qualifies as a NIB - never fired - muzzle loader - they command a but much better price than a fired muzzleloader in the resale market. Very few people trust others cleaning abilities when it come to black powder and black powder substitutes.
Post by: Bob33 on July 02, 2014, 03:06:33 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on July 02, 2014, 04:25:47 PM
If they had put a cap on the nipple and pulled the trigger, it would have saved me three lost weeks and a big black eye for Knight. Does that really require cleaning?
I totally agree... but you would not believe the mess one cap can make with the bore coat in the barrel. Of course the bore coat is non-corrosive. Just out of curiosity have you ran a patch down the bore? You might be surprised yourself right now if you were to run a damp patch down the bore. It will come out looking something terrible - then add the carbon from a cap and it gets worse. That is why the companies and almost everyone says to thoroughly clean a ML before shooting. The preservatives that companies put to protect the new bore can sometimes be really thick.
These were the first patches out of my new TC Triumph when cleaning it. TC was using some form of copper protection...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FDSCN0852.jpg&hash=e8b835566bbc43a599185b53806b9780139f9bc9) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/DSCN0852.jpg.html)
In reality - if the person assembling the rifle had looked at the closed bolt in the fired position you would see that it would not work - same for the pressure that was need to close the bolt. So Knight is still on the hook for the assembly of a non-functional rifle.
In my case I did fire 3 caps then started cleaning the bore - I really wish I had taken pictures of those patches. They were a deep dark black and it took 10 or so patches to start to see the end... But one thing for sure if that rifle had set in Sportsman's Warehouse for years the bore would have been protected.
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 02, 2014, 09:55:09 PM
Bob,Hey Bri, let me know when you order that gun. I'm really interested in the CVA also, very nice looking gun and I love the small holes in the breech!
So sorry to hear of your problems, but I THANK YOU for posting this. I am an archery hunter that drew a muzzy tag this year and am only days away from buying a complete set up. I was leaning towards the CVA until I started reading threads on here about how "superior" KNIGHT is. :dunno: :dunno:
You have convinced me that I will not be doing any business with Knight.
Any company that has to close down their Customer Service to save costs, is a company on it's way to closing their doors or restructuring their business.... not good. :twocents:
Thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. :tup:
Brian
If time allows, I will be ordering this one in the morning. Considering that I have never even fired a muzzy before, I want to get their Customer Service on the phone first and make sure I order everything a rookie will need to kill a great White River Bull :chuckle:
http://www.cva.com/CVA-Store-View.php?video=watch&id=625 (http://www.cva.com/CVA-Store-View.php?video=watch&id=625)
Post by: SeaRun1 on July 02, 2014, 10:10:46 PM
All this being said the three Knights I have are all really accurate shooting guns. Not condoning how Knight treated the OP just saying don't give up on them for this the guns themselves are great.
SR1
Post by: Jburke on July 03, 2014, 01:30:32 AM
Glad they are making an attempt to make it right for you though. :tup:
Post by: MountainDevil54 on July 03, 2014, 08:43:31 AM
Post by: usmc74 on July 03, 2014, 06:26:02 PM
It wouldn't fire, just like yours. He called Knight, described the issue, and they said they would send him a new breach plug. It was a known issue.
He had it within a week and happy ever since.
Post by: Bob33 on July 04, 2014, 07:06:03 AM
My co-worked bought a Knight ultra lite in Jan.If Knight knew in January, why are they stil having the same issues six months later?
It wouldn't fire, just like yours. He called Knight, described the issue, and they said they would send him a new breach plug. It was a known issue.
He had it within a week and happy ever since.
Post by: Sabotloader on July 04, 2014, 10:17:33 AM
My co-worked bought a Knight ultra lite in Jan.If Knight knew in January, why are they stil having the same issues six months later?
It wouldn't fire, just like yours. He called Knight, described the issue, and they said they would send him a new breach plug. It was a known issue.
He had it within a week and happy ever since.
That is what prompted Knight to order the new breech plugs at 1.349... But the purchase order processed by the front office and they attached the old print for the original BP... I guess that verifies the old saying 'if you want something done right you have to do it yourself' not saying that is the way it is suppose to be... but... "IN A PERFECT WORLD" things would be so much different.
Post by: usmc74 on July 04, 2014, 02:45:43 PM
My co-worked bought a Knight ultra lite in Jan.If Knight knew in January, why are they stil having the same issues six months later?
It wouldn't fire, just like yours. He called Knight, described the issue, and they said they would send him a new breach plug. It was a known issue.
He had it within a week and happy ever since.
He also bought his at Federal Way Sportsmans. They probably bought a large lot (the main company) of rifles with the bad breech plugs? Federal way got a few of them?
Post by: Ruttn Bulls on July 07, 2014, 06:45:21 AM
Alarming OP.
What an eye opener here on the Ultra Lite. I just ordered one from Sportsmans web page for an in store free "Ship to" pick-up. Have not heard yet about its arrival to my local (2 hrs. away) store. Going to be my first ML and really have been trying to read everything I can get my hands on about ML'ing and the Ultra lite specifically. Now I'm a little cooled off on the idea of the Ultra.
Curious If I was to go through with the deal (which if I understand it right from Sportsmans -- I can still decline upon my inspection -- as long as I don't leave the store with it!) is there a sure fire way to look at this thing when I go to get it to determine if it is a gun out of the "Bad" lot leftovers. For example, pull the BP right there in the store and whip out my calipers and measure the length of it?? Any other identification ideas? Serial #'s ect.?
This sounds like a real headache to take on willingly knowing about the situation.......as a Newbie especially!!
I am so thankful for you guys here sharing your information with all.
Post by: Bob33 on July 07, 2014, 07:49:19 AM
I'm still waiting for the correct breech plug. The first one sent that "tested OK in an Ultra-Lite barrel" was another incorrect one. The one that was "overnighted" to me on Wednesday has yet to arrive.
Post by: Ruttn Bulls on July 07, 2014, 10:40:34 AM
Post by: usmc74 on July 07, 2014, 11:14:18 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 07, 2014, 11:28:40 AM
Yea maybe I'll send "Sabot" a PM to get the proper length of the BP if he doesn't chime in here before I get the call to come in and pick it up. Wonder if Sportsman's will let me pull that out right there on their counter top to measure it?? By the way what is the socket size I need or is there actually a tool in the box to pull that thing?There is a tool in the box for removing the plug. They should let you pull the plug under the circumstances. I can caliper my defective ones tonight and post. (I have two!) I believe they are 30/1000ths of an inch short.
Post by: Ruttn Bulls on July 07, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
Post by: Ruttn Bulls on July 07, 2014, 11:40:45 AM
That would be great.
Hate to just walk away from the gun if it by chance wasn't in the "Bad" BP lot. Sure looks like a great gun other than that. Have had my mind made up for quite a while on trying one. Guess I don't know what i'd drop back and try if I pass on it. Hunting in Eastern Oregon Elk and Deer. The weight looks sooooo nice for steep ground.
Post by: Sabotloader on July 07, 2014, 12:15:06 PM
Ruttn Bulls sent me a PM and I am just going to post it and the reply here - hope that is OK with RB...
Hello Sabot....
New here but have made a couple posts on the "sportsmans and Knight" thread.
Pretty concerned here as I just bought a new Ultra Lite end of last week from Sportsmans. The wrong BP sounds like a real hassle. I'm new to ML'ing and was really wanting one of these guns for most all of the reasons you talk about in your posts. However, not looking for this kind of headach at all.
#1 I think you probably can not buy a more universal ML's you can and under normal circumstances I would say really rely on high quality... But, Knight has identified that the breech plugs in most newly built Mountaineer/Ulite rifles are to short. The BP is cut to 1.33" long to accommodate the Knight nipple. In late December Knight re=spec'ed the breech plug length to 1.349" and then issued and work order to build the correct length plug. Those plugs came in a short time back, but they were not built to new specs. Knight is scrambling to get an emergency order of the new plugs of the correct length in and out to dealers for replacement. I honestly do not know when those will be available, but Knight can build one for you of the correct length.
Quote
I appreciate your willingness to share and educate as your adventures unfold. I see you mention the "New" length of the BP to rectify this issue. I thought I might take the calipers into the store and pull the plug and measure it right there before I accept the gun and walk out with it. Is the number you suggested the true LOA or something different? I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I go in there.
A mic will let you know for sure but really there is so little difference it might be hard to get a good measurement. Another method, which is not very scientific is to visually inspect the rifle through the bolt vent. The hammer when fired should be less than a sheet of paper thickness from touching the nipple of the breech plug.
I recognize, and so does Knight this is a problem, but it really is an easily fixed problem. I really would not let that hold me up getting a rifle and then getting a new BP from Knight. Actually I might be able to make contact with Knight and find out when the new ones will be available.
Quote
Also, Is the tight bolt that big of an issue and could you please explain it to me in a little more detail. I'm not sure I understand what you said about it. How did you rectify it on yours?
It is a problem but it might not be in every rifle. Check the rifle you might get and see if the bolt closes all the way down and lifts with moderate pressure.
Quote
Apparently these things weren't all that big of a deal to you as you never mentioned them in your previous threads about the Ultra lite that you customized for yourself. (Love those threads BTW)
Never really had these problem in the other lights that I have had or seen. No that is not right the breech plug length has always been marginal to me, but Knight is so darn conservative they do not want the hammer contacting the top of the nipple and causing the nipple peen pre-maturely. I really do not care! a nipple is $4.00 after a couple hundred rounds replacing the nipple is no big deal to me,
Quote
I hate to pass on a great sounding Gun if these two issues are the only things I run into here with this gun.
I will suggest to you that the bolt problem might not be universal and the BP problem will be taken care - actually both problems Knight will fix...
Quote
It was a tough decision trying to decide between the Bighorn and Ultra. Chose the Ultra for obvious quality improvement reasons -- and how light it is. I'm wondering about dropping back to the Bighorn now. :bash:
Personally I would not do it... The ULite is a far more versatile rifle.
Quote
I would also be curious if you might have any recommendations on lighter bullet/ powder combinations you might have tried or think would be a good fit for this gun? Or at least a good starting place for me.....assuming it has the proper BP in it and it functions correctly. I have read a lot of your posts about the .503/4 460's. I'm in Oregon and will hunt both Deer and Elk with it. Wondered if a guy could get the recoil down a bit with a lighter conical that will still be sufficient for Elk and shoot good out of this gun?
Appreciate your time. Thank's Kye
You like I are limited by our states to full bore lead conicals...
Bull Shop does make a 400 grain conical that he will size to .503
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FbullshopBullets-1.jpg&hash=782ab0b7ddc1d97131fabf301d4ace2aa93aeddd) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/bullshopBullets-1.jpg.html)
Buffalo Bullets makes a very good 385 grain conical - but the 400 grain Bull Shop is what I would do..
Post by: Ruttn Bulls on July 07, 2014, 07:19:26 PM
So am I reading that right about Knight shipping you a new BP that they said they tested in the Ulite Barrel and it was still wrong? Then the over night BP sent hasn't arrived? Makes me wonder are they trying to customize one there for you or are the new ones that are the proper dimension supposed to be available. Guess we'll find out when you get the one that is on it's way. Craziness.
Post by: whacker1 on July 08, 2014, 12:30:34 PM
If they had put a cap on the nipple and pulled the trigger, it would have saved me three lost weeks and a big black eye for Knight. Does that really require cleaning?
I totally agree... but you would not believe the mess one cap can make with the bore coat in the barrel. Of course the bore coat is non-corrosive. Just out of curiosity have you ran a patch down the bore? You might be surprised yourself right now if you were to run a damp patch down the bore. It will come out looking something terrible - then add the carbon from a cap and it gets worse. That is why the companies and almost everyone says to thoroughly clean a ML before shooting. The preservatives that companies put to protect the new bore can sometimes be really thick.
These were the first patches out of my new TC Triumph when cleaning it. TC was using some form of copper protection...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FDSCN0852.jpg&hash=e8b835566bbc43a599185b53806b9780139f9bc9) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/DSCN0852.jpg.html)
In reality - if the person assembling the rifle had looked at the closed bolt in the fired position you would see that it would not work - same for the pressure that was need to close the bolt. So Knight is still on the hook for the assembly of a non-functional rifle.
In my case I did fire 3 caps then started cleaning the bore - I really wish I had taken pictures of those patches. They were a deep dark black and it took 10 or so patches to start to see the end... But one thing for sure if that rifle had set in Sportsman's Warehouse for years the bore would have been protected.
I agree I would rather clean it myself after firing a cap or two vs dealing with some commercial cleaning method. I would rather be sent an unfired muzzleloader. I understand your predicament, but it is the nature of dealing with muzzleloaders. I am sure there is a way they could have fired the bolt and pressure tested the bolt striking the nipple without firing a cap. and measure tolerances between bolt face and nipple.
Frustrating for sure
Post by: howlow on July 15, 2014, 07:22:59 PM
Post by: howlow on July 15, 2014, 07:24:25 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 15, 2014, 07:42:26 PM
Bob33,Here's my update. I received a second breech plug from Knight about one week after I purchased the rifle. The message from Knight with it was "I tested a new breech plug in a Ultra-Lite barrel tested ok". It did not work in my Knight, so it was the second breech plug that would not work.
So am I reading that right about Knight shipping you a new BP that they said they tested in the Ulite Barrel and it was still wrong? Then the over night BP sent hasn't arrived? Makes me wonder are they trying to customize one there for you or are the new ones that are the proper dimension supposed to be available. Guess we'll find out when you get the one that is on it's way. Craziness.
The"overnight" package sent on July 2 was really sent 2nd day air, so it didn't arrive until Monday July 7. It contained another (third) breech plug, and a new bolt. I tested the breech plug with my old bolt, and it worked. I tested it with the new bolt (the one that Knight said they had tested the third breech plug with), and it wouldn't fire. FYI, the three breech plugs were three different lengths: 1.323", 1.348", and 1.352".
I therefore now have a third breech plug that so far has worked with my first bolt. No other combination works.
I've only had one weekend to test the combination, and so far they have worked. My confidence in them continuing to work is low, particularly when parts are taken apart to clean and put back together.
For supposedly being one of the better muzzleloader rifle companies, I have concluded that Knight's quality assurance processes and customer service are extremely poor. I could never in good conscience recommend Knight muzzleloaders to a friend, and in fact would advise them against it until Knight gets their act together.
Post by: Mfowl on July 15, 2014, 07:58:42 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 15, 2014, 08:09:03 PM
Sorry to hear about your continued troubles with this gun! Must be a headache! I hope everything turns out well in the end and your bull makes you forget about all this!I hope so too. I'm looking for a second backup rifle to take since my confidence in Knight is low.
Post by: Mfowl on July 15, 2014, 08:23:14 PM
Sorry to hear about your continued troubles with this gun! Must be a headache! I hope everything turns out well in the end and your bull makes you forget about all this!I hope so too. I'm looking for a second backup rifle to take since my confidence in Knight is low.
If you can find one the CVA Elkhorn Pro is a decent gun for about $200. One of my hunting partners has one and I was impressed with its accuracy. It also came with all 3 ignition systems. He has yet to actually take an animal with it though. Good luck! We're pullin for ya!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 18, 2014, 12:38:43 PM
I'm REALLY sorry you're going through this Bob. Thank you very much for posting this though - I truly hope that Knight as a company sees this review and starts taking a second look at their QA.
Curtis
Post by: Sabotloader on July 18, 2014, 02:18:15 PM
It's really shocking to hear about this. My Knight Bighorn has never been a problem, but these issues you're pointing out are making me nervous for the day that it does. It's a little nervewracking to know that if I need a new BP, I may not get the same size as I had before. The fact that they are so far off makes me wonder who the heck is manufacturing these things. Most of the local machine shops are dealing in fractions of thousandths, so how they can be off by as much as 4 thousandths on the "newer" design?
I'm REALLY sorry you're going through this Bob. Thank you very much for posting this though - I truly hope that Knight as a company sees this review and starts taking a second look at their QA.
Curtis
This problem does not exist in the Big Horn - the breech plugs are not even the same size. A 'plunger gun' like to Big Horn the length of the breech plug is not really a consideration.
The problem is much more critical in a bolt action rifle that the hammer only moves out of the bolt a few thousands of an inch.