Post by: packmule on July 01, 2014, 08:47:26 AM
(1) Is a 20 gauge or 12 gauge preferred?
(2) Is a pump, autoloader, SxS, or O/U preferred?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Post by: jackson7 on July 01, 2014, 09:37:04 AM
Weight is a concern when one is hiking 5-10 miles per day.
Post by: birddogdad on July 01, 2014, 09:44:45 AM
1) what you shoot accurately (most important)
2) weight, you are shagging steep hills
3) 2 shots vs 3, if your fast, you can pull off a tripple. Also 2 barrels allows for choke tube differences if you feel the need. (mod/full)
having said this, i have all 3 guns available, perfer my 12 o/u but have 20 o/u and benelli light 20 semi. All work, and yes have wished i carried the semi with that 3rd shot on occasion!
the upland "purist' would say only sbs or o/u other wise your cheating....
Post by: bobcat on July 01, 2014, 10:11:40 AM
Post by: Dave Workman on July 01, 2014, 12:02:53 PM
I'm curious what the chukar experts think:
(1) Is a 20 gauge or 12 gauge preferred?
(2) Is a pump, autoloader, SxS, or O/U preferred?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Since I do this sort of thing as part of my living :chuckle: ;)
My preference is for the double-barrel, in either 12- or 20, but I think the 20 is a bit more practical because of the size of the bird. Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance. I own a double 12 and two 20s, one an S/S and the other an O/U.
Use 6 or 7 1/2 shot, with modified and full or modified and I/C, depending upon whether you have a good dog and can get close. Chukars will hold for a good dog. For a lousy dog, they'll boogie and you'll be lucky to get a decent shot in maybe two or three flushes, and in that case, you'll definitely want the M/F setup.
Having a third shot is often superflous because by the time you get that one off, the birds have gone far enough out that you won't get an effective shot pattern. Chukar, if you hunt them over on the Snake River or Columbia breaks where it is steep terrain, will almost always get up and then head straight down hill to pick up speed and create distance from the threat. They are a remarkably fast bird, but they don't frighten the ¢r@p out of you like a grouse can in cover.
Pumps and autoloaders are nice for goose pits and duck blinds; places where you don't have to do a lot of walking. After a half-day lugging around a pump or auto with its longer receiver and firing mechanism, you could have some tired arms.
I hunt almost exclusively with double guns. Learned a long time ago the additional weight was not worth the additional shot.
Bear in mind, that a S/S double is regulated differently to put the patterns in the general same spot at either 25 or 40 yards, so you need to pattern the gun at those distances.
The O/U shotgun I also regulated, and you will want to pattern your gun at those distances, too.
Good luck!
Post by: AspenBud on July 01, 2014, 12:11:18 PM
Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance.
How does that work? My understanding is the powder charge doesn't change between shells, just the number of pellets. They should all fall at about the same distance regardless of whether they are 2 3/4 inch shells or magnum 3 1/2's. Or are you looking for maximum pellet density as the pattern spreads out? That would make more sense.
Sorry, I'm just curious. I'm always surprised at how many people don't realize that magnum means something entirely different with shot shells than pistol and rifle ammo.
Post by: Bob33 on July 01, 2014, 12:16:46 PM
A 3" shell has room for more powder, more shot, or both. More powder means higher velocity which translates to greater energy per pellet. More shot means greater pattern density. At 40 yards instead of 3 or 4 pellets hitting a target, 4 or 5 pellets hit the target.Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance.
How does that work? My understanding is the powder charge doesn't change between shells, just the number of pellets. They should all fall at about the same distance regardless of whether they are 2 3/4 inch shells or magnum 3 1/2's. Or are you looking for maximum pellet density as the pattern spreads out? That would make more sense.
Sorry, I'm just curious. I'm always surprised at how many people don't realize that magnum means something entirely different with shot shells than pistol and rifle ammo.
Post by: AspenBud on July 01, 2014, 12:44:03 PM
A 3" shell has room for more powder, more shot, or both. More powder means higher velocity which translates to greater energy per pellet. More shot means greater pattern density. At 40 yards instead of 3 or 4 pellets hitting a target, 4 or 5 pellets hit the target.Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance.
How does that work? My understanding is the powder charge doesn't change between shells, just the number of pellets. They should all fall at about the same distance regardless of whether they are 2 3/4 inch shells or magnum 3 1/2's. Or are you looking for maximum pellet density as the pattern spreads out? That would make more sense.
Sorry, I'm just curious. I'm always surprised at how many people don't realize that magnum means something entirely different with shot shells than pistol and rifle ammo.
Apparently you're right, I learn something new every day.
But at the end of it I would think that most shells would pattern similarly at about 40 yards so I'm guessing the expectation then is to have more lead on target at that range, not increased range resulting from more powder. You're still at the mercy of your choice of choke.
Post by: birddogdad on July 01, 2014, 01:06:25 PM
A 3" shell has room for more powder, more shot, or both. More powder means higher velocity which translates to greater energy per pellet. More shot means greater pattern density. At 40 yards instead of 3 or 4 pellets hitting a target, 4 or 5 pellets hit the target.Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance.
How does that work? My understanding is the powder charge doesn't change between shells, just the number of pellets. They should all fall at about the same distance regardless of whether they are 2 3/4 inch shells or magnum 3 1/2's. Or are you looking for maximum pellet density as the pattern spreads out? That would make more sense.
Bob, if you arent tied to steel shot based areas hunting, you can load your own screaming 2 3/4 loads to reach out and touch them if your gun doesnt accept 3" as well... Also Dave, the Benelli ultralight autoloader is only 6 #, which makes for a nice all day carry....
Sorry, I'm just curious. I'm always surprised at how many people don't realize that magnum means something entirely different with shot shells than pistol and rifle ammo.
Post by: AspenBud on July 01, 2014, 01:42:25 PM
A 3" shell has room for more powder, more shot, or both. More powder means higher velocity which translates to greater energy per pellet. More shot means greater pattern density. At 40 yards instead of 3 or 4 pellets hitting a target, 4 or 5 pellets hit the target.Use 3-inch shells for chukar for the extra distance.
How does that work? My understanding is the powder charge doesn't change between shells, just the number of pellets. They should all fall at about the same distance regardless of whether they are 2 3/4 inch shells or magnum 3 1/2's. Or are you looking for maximum pellet density as the pattern spreads out? That would make more sense.
Bob, if you arent tied to steel shot based areas hunting, you can load your own screaming 2 3/4 loads to reach out and touch them if your gun doesnt accept 3" as well... Also Dave, the Benelli ultralight autoloader is only 6 #, which makes for a nice all day carry....
Sorry, I'm just curious. I'm always surprised at how many people don't realize that magnum means something entirely different with shot shells than pistol and rifle ammo.
The ultralight isn't for everyone. If you're used to shooting a heavier gun that light weight can screw with your aim.
That said, if I had the cash I'd suffer the consequences and take the lighter weight.
Post by: bobcat on July 01, 2014, 02:17:09 PM
Post by: AWS on July 01, 2014, 09:04:16 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on July 01, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
Post by: packmule on July 01, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
Thanks for the information. This has been really helpful. I appreciate it!
Post by: joe_dumy on July 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Post by: merkelman on July 02, 2014, 08:04:48 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 02, 2014, 08:30:26 AM
I don't like having to sort through several guns, so my go-to has always been my 870 express that yes, I also use on ducks/geese. For backup I have a beaten up Mossberg 500. I've always appreciated the beauty of double barrels, but have never purchased as I can't justify the cost.
My Express was down all season last year and I ended up killing a lot of birds with my Mossberg. I love that gun.
My wife typically carries a 20 pump and she also seems to do fine.
Curtis
Post by: AspenBud on July 02, 2014, 10:19:13 AM
I come from a big game background that was followed by a military background, so I have never really cared about carrying a gun all day. It's kind of just part of the game. Generally speaking, I feel that my arms will outlast the dogs so I haven't had issues. However, I am humble enough to admit that I am not in as good shape as I used to be, so maybe as I get older my mind will change.
I don't like having to sort through several guns, so my go-to has always been my 870 express that yes, I also use on ducks/geese. For backup I have a beaten up Mossberg 500. I've always appreciated the beauty of double barrels, but have never purchased as I can't justify the cost.
My Express was down all season last year and I ended up killing a lot of birds with my Mossberg. I love that gun.
My wife typically carries a 20 pump and she also seems to do fine.
Curtis
For all around durability you can't beat a pump gun, and considering the abuse a gun can take when chukar hunting that means something.
Thinking about it, a Browning BPS Upland Special in 16 gauge with 26" barrels would probably not be a bad option either. Carries like a 20 gauge, hits like a 12.
Post by: jackson7 on July 02, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
Kind of like the fly fisherman using hardware. Just don't tell anyone.
I remind them that the pump is an American classic!
Post by: Fishnfowler on July 02, 2014, 11:48:42 PM
As to the idea of being a purist, hunt with what blows your hair back. As to the magical 3rd shot, that is a bunch of BS. If someone thinks they can shoot as fast with an autoloader or pump as I can with my SxS, I challenge them to a contest of "fastest 25 shots."
At the end of the day it is always the quality of the hunt that counts, not the number in the bag.
Rob.
Post by: wildweeds on July 02, 2014, 11:56:57 PM
Post by: merkelman on July 03, 2014, 07:30:16 AM
I've been shooting chukar for 36 years. For me it is a 12 gauge SxS. With that in mind, I will upon occasion drag a 20 up the hills, but I prefer a light 12 gauge game gun. My favorite is the one in my avatar, a 12 gauge Ugartechea that weighs 6-1/2 pounds. I went the route of the Ithaca 37. Even when hunting Idaho, where I could stuff 5 shells in the gun, it never made a difference in my bag. I can miss as well with 2 barrels as I can with one.a little wisdom... Happy 4th to all!
As to the idea of being a purist, hunt with what blows your hair back. As to the magical 3rd shot, that is a bunch of BS. If someone thinks they can shoot as fast with an autoloader or pump as I can with my SxS, I challenge them to a contest of "fastest 25 shots."
At the end of the day it is always the quality of the hunt that counts, not the number in the bag.
Rob.
Post by: nwwanderer on July 03, 2014, 07:40:31 AM
Post by: Curly on July 03, 2014, 08:36:21 AM
Post by: huntingfool7 on July 03, 2014, 12:54:13 PM
I'd comment that it's whatever you shoot well and............ don't care to much if it gets dinged,dented or scratched,guarantee that there will be a little bit of behind end time on the ground.
:yeah:
Something that won't have you staring at the ceiling, late at night, thinking about that scratch and dent.
Post by: beninchelan on July 03, 2014, 11:47:16 PM
Cheep 2 3/4 #6 shells. Or #4 in the snow ..
the best gun is the one that you shoot the best, remember those birds don't always give the best shots & falls are hard on nice guns. I have a few that are testimony to that. Also plan on carrying the gun for 8 hr so lighter is good.
Post by: fethrduster on July 04, 2014, 08:24:20 PM
Post by: Lee Root on July 06, 2014, 05:00:25 PM
I also have three very good chukar dogs, one retired, one in the prime, a young male that is making the hunting really fun. Next season I will be taking out another pup who is going to be six months old in a couple of days. The dogs make the difference in my hunts.
Since we are dating ourselves: I shot my first chukar in the fall of 1974.
Post by: packmule on July 07, 2014, 10:30:52 AM
What are your recommendations, if any, for good side-by-side shotguns in the $500-$1000 price range?
Post by: huntingfool7 on July 07, 2014, 12:15:26 PM
Again, thanks for all the input!Older and used with a couple triggers. Good single selective triggers don't translate well to cheap.
What are your recommendations, if any, for good side-by-side shotguns in the $500-$1000 price range?
Post by: CP on July 07, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
Again, thanks for all the input!
What are your recommendations, if any, for good side-by-side shotguns in the $500-$1000 price range?
Take a look at the CZ Bobwhite -
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-bobwhite-12-26-5-choke-tubes/ (http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-bobwhite-12-26-5-choke-tubes/)
Post by: fethrduster on July 07, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
Again, thanks for all the input!
What are your recommendations, if any, for good side-by-side shotguns in the $500-$1000 price range?
Lots of good guns out there in that price range. Older and used, with double triggers, indeed. I just bought a 1910 Lefever 16ga sxs today in that price range that will hopefully be my go-to chukar gun. Just get on gunbroker and do a sxs search. I have an ffl and buy/sell often also.
Post by: jackson7 on July 07, 2014, 10:46:02 PM
be careful on older sxs as many have more drop on their stocks which will affect your shooting. Restocking is an expensive proposition. hit some of the used gun stores to get a feel for what you like.
Post by: Dave Workman on July 12, 2014, 06:33:37 AM
Yep, there are lots of lightweight autoloaders. My Remington 1100 LT 20 gauge is about as light as a feather. I also have a Franchi 12 gauge autoloader that must only be a couple of ounces more. The recoil isn't light, however, but for chukar hunting it doesn't matter. I only noticed it when I tried using it for trap shooting once. :o
That's pretty common. One rarely feels recoil when shooting at a live target. It's at the range where recoil becomes the bugaboo, because the target really isn't getting away and you're not at risk of losing something for the bag. (Who ever ate a clay disk?)
I cannot recall having ever felt recoil when shooting at live game, whether birds or bucks or bunnies...
Post by: Dave Workman on July 12, 2014, 06:40:01 AM
Then one day about 10 yrs ago I happened on a little 6lb belgian 16ga sxs, and on my first chukar hunt with it that fall, I got a triple and a double. I've never looked back since, and my hits increased by going to a sxs vs a pump and o/u. I don't have big hands, and I like the smaller, shallower frame of a 16 sxs in my hands. It feels very instinctive. 16's hit like a 12, without having to resort to 3" magnums at longer ranges like you might in a 20.
HA! My first shotgun was an old single shot 16 H&R exposed hammer gun that didn't have a front bead. My dad swapped some guy a .380 Beretta Model 1934 pistol for that gun (today I wish he'd kept the Beretta, it was a dandy) and I killed several grouse with it before buying my first double, the 12-gauge Beretta.
I'm surprised the 16-gauge doesn't get more attention because it is a hell of a round. As you suggest, a great "compromise" between the 12- and 20. The "sweet 16" is something of an anachronism because it was never offered in a 3-inch version like the 12- and 20- but in the right hands, as you have discovered, it is hell on wheels for upland birds.
Post by: jetjockey on July 13, 2014, 06:11:44 AM
Post by: merkelman on July 13, 2014, 09:25:27 AM
Post by: AWS on July 13, 2014, 03:36:18 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FMT2013lastday012_zps80330d23.jpg&hash=e16759fcbcea213f537556e5873ec347cc3566e6) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/MT2013lastday012_zps80330d23.jpg.html)
Post by: Dave Workman on July 17, 2014, 05:45:11 PM
This is a nice little Bernardelli BLE 12 ga. that comes in at 5#15oz. I usually run 2 1/2"(it does have 2 3/4" chambers but most of my guns are 2 1/2") 1oz of 6's for pheasant, huns and sharptail. I picked it up off of GB in your price range.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FMT2013lastday012_zps80330d23.jpg&hash=e16759fcbcea213f537556e5873ec347cc3566e6) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/MT2013lastday012_zps80330d23.jpg.html)
CRIPES! That almost looks like my Beretta! I think Bernardelli was one of their off-shoots. My gun has a monte carlo comb, straight grip, nickel silver receiver, double triggers...similar wood.
Post by: chukar hunter on July 20, 2014, 02:51:27 PM
Leave the fancy gun at home a light semi auto 12 &
Cheep 2 3/4 #6 shells. Or #4 in the snow ..
Best advice so far! You don't want to be worrying about the finish on your nice gun when your sidehilling 60 degree frozen slopes pushing to the next rock outcropping or cover. Been rocking Pump Rem 870 for years and have killed dozens of chukar. I'd rather go heavy on the lead than worry about winging one and watch it lock it's wings and sail down a 1000 vertical feet.