Post by: Alchase on July 14, 2014, 06:36:26 AM
The Army wants to retire its supply of 9mm handguns and replace it with a more accurate and user-friendly model that also will provide soldiers with more “knock-down” power.
Army officials say their inventory of more than 200,000 semi-automatic Beretta M9 and Sig Sauer M11 pistols has become outdated, worn out and needs to be replaced with an updated model that also offers more reliability and durability.
They also are considering new ammunition, which has sparked considerable debate among military and civilian weapons experts, too.
“Advancements in firearms have taken place since the M9 was adopted nearly 30 years ago, and it is our intent to take advantage of these advancements,” a military spokesperson told FoxNews.com on Friday. “The Army is seeking to replace the M9 and M11 pistols with a handgun that is more accurate, ergonomic, reliable and durable than the current pistol.”
Officials seem opposed to an update version of the Beretta M9, despite the company offering to make changes.
"We have submitted numerous changes or product improvements that really address a lot of the shortcomings that are either perceived or real," Beretta development manager Gabe Bailey recently told Military.com.
The Army has been considering a change for several years and on July 29 will hold a so-called “industry day” to brief gun manufacturers about the competition requirements for a winning proposal.
The Defense Department will reportedly buy more than 400,000 new pistols if and when officials agree on a new model.
Beyond the 9mm’s durability issues, which Army officials says are costing them too much in repairs, soldiers also say the pistol needs a more ergonomic grip, its safety device too often locks inadvertently and its open-slide bullet chamber allows in too much dirty, which results in jamming.
Still, the other big issue appears to be about the caliber of the new ammunition, considering most experts argue a person must be hit with several 9 mm rounds to be killed.
“We are not dictating a caliber during the competition,” the spokesperson said. “A vendor may submit multiple calibers of ammunition. However, the ammunition must exceed the performance of the current M882 9mm round.”
Among those likely to be considered in the Modular Handgun System competition are the .40 and .45 caliber rounds.
The argument against the .40 caliber round is that its heavier weight and stronger recoil causes excessive wear on a 9 mm pistol.
There have been no reports on how much the new weapons will cost, amid budget concerns. However, in September 2012, Beretta received a 5-year, $64 million firm-fixed-price contract for up to 100,000 of its M9 9mm pistols, according to Defense Industry Daily.
Following industry day, the Army will release a draft Request for Proposal, which seeks input from manufacturers.
The Army will then consider the manufacturers’ comments and modify the request, if necessary. It will then hold a final industry day before issuing a final proposal before the end of the year.
The next phase will essentially be a tryout and elimination process, which officials say will be based on technical results and will rely “heavily” on soldier feedback.
“One of the primary requirements for this weapon system is to provide the soldier with increased terminal performance,” the spokesperson said. “Feedback from soldiers in the field is that they want increased ‘knock-down power.’ And the MHS program will evaluate commercially available weapons that meet that requirement.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/12/army-to-replace-mm-pistol-with-more-reliable-gun-packing-better-knock-down/?intcmp=trending (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/12/army-to-replace-mm-pistol-with-more-reliable-gun-packing-better-knock-down/?intcmp=trending)
(lets forget they even mentioned knockdown power, LOL)
The biggest problem with achieving "increased terminal performance" is as long as the insist on using solid "ball ammo" the gains made from going away from a 9mm to a .40, and .45 are nominal.
Without changing the bullet type and going to a expandible (hollow Point) type bullet, all they left with is maintainability and reliability.
Post by: HawkCreek on July 14, 2014, 12:31:59 PM
Won't be a .40 until NATO standardizes the round.
Won't be a glock until they make.one with an external safety.
Military is being downsized, this is a waste of time and money.
Post by: NW-GSP on July 14, 2014, 02:47:29 PM
Post by: JJB11B on July 14, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 14, 2014, 04:07:25 PM
Just another money dump. They couldn't get a new pistol adopted when Iraq and Afghan were big and they had huge budgets. That's where the HK45 came from, they tried this just a few years ago.
Won't be a .40 until NATO standardizes the round.
Won't be a glock until they make.one with an external safety.
Military is being downsized, this is a waste of time and money.
Spot on right there.
On a side note, I wonder where all that 9mm hollow point ammo the government purchased went? :dunno:
Post by: Bofire on July 14, 2014, 04:09:21 PM
What is "knock down power"? a fat flat nose bullet at pistol velocity? a wiz bang speedster hollow point going fast?? a base ball bat?? How about a 1956 Caddy at 100mph????
Carl
Post by: huntnphool on July 14, 2014, 04:13:21 PM
:) I am a little confused as to "knock down power" are we talking about whacking em in the head with a heavy gun or shooting them?? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
What is "knock down power"? a fat flat nose bullet at pistol velocity? a wiz bang speedster hollow point going fast?? a base ball bat?? How about a 1956 Caddy at 100mph????
Carl
I'd like to see the stats on how many military are engaged using handguns, I've certainly never seen any personnel walking around with a 9mm in their hands on the news, every single one of them has been carrying some form of long gun.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 14, 2014, 04:25:22 PM
Post by: JJB11B on July 21, 2014, 04:36:38 PM
Post by: Bofire on July 21, 2014, 08:14:07 PM
Carl
Post by: JJB11B on July 21, 2014, 08:19:45 PM
:) :) I know!!!! a 1911 in 45 acp!!!!!!!!!!!!Hell no! Did you see how much the Marine Corps was going to spend on their new 1911s? Yes I love the 1911 Platform. But because of todays manufacturing process 1911s are hit and miss. Yes there are some great 1911s out there. I believe to gaurantee a quality 1911 you need to go with a high end manufacturer or a custom shop, which is not feasible nor fiscally responsible. I would rather have a Glock or a Sig.
Carl
Post by: TheHunt on July 21, 2014, 08:25:49 PM
Post by: JJB11B on July 21, 2014, 08:40:33 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 22, 2014, 06:44:21 AM
Post by: Bofire on July 22, 2014, 10:36:43 AM
"I know!!!! a 1911 in 45 acp!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carl"
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:geeez its a joke, it would be just like the real Govt. to go back to the gun they left!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have owned 2 Sigs, sold both. I have a Glock, its my truck pistol, because it works, is ugly, is cheap, so If stolen I aint out much, and I do not care how much I abuse it.
What ever they pick some will like some won't, and the reasons will be weird.
Carl
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 22, 2014, 10:53:59 AM
Just another money dump. They couldn't get a new pistol adopted when Iraq and Afghan were big and they had huge budgets. That's where the HK45 came from, they tried this just a few years ago.
Won't be a .40 until NATO standardizes the round.
Won't be a glock until they make.one with an external safety.
Military is being downsized, this is a waste of time and money.
FYI Glock 22/23's are in service right now