Post by: 7mmfan on July 19, 2014, 04:40:54 PM
Is there any value to this thought? I took the barrel out and looked at the stock. I sanded it down a bit and made the hump smaller, but there is still contact. Before I get to serious about this I want to make sure I'm not going to screw something up by keeping on with the sanding.
I also noticed when I took the barrel out today, that one of the little shims that goes between the action and the stock is missing, causing the gun to tighten down odd. Should I try to track down another shim or just eliminate the one I have so everytihng sits appropriately.
Gun is Model 700 Mountain Rifle, 7mm-08. I love this little gun and really want it to be a shooter, so any help you guys can pass my way would be appreciated.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 19, 2014, 04:46:56 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 19, 2014, 05:09:18 PM
Conventional wisdom is that light barrels need fore end pressure to shoot well. In my opinion, that's often true but necessarily so. Every gun is different. I prefer free floated barrels because they will shoot more consistently.
You can free float the barrel by sanding down any portions of the stock that touch. You literally need just a "paper thin" gap. If the gun shoots well free floated, you're golden. If not, try adding a business card or two under the fore end. If that makes the gun shoot well, you can add back a bit of pressure with glass bedding compound.
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 19, 2014, 05:20:24 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 19, 2014, 05:26:22 PM
Floating the barrel seems to be everyone on the internets favorite accuracy tip. Float, float, float and more float seems the common end all answer of internet experts. But in most cases the gun manufacturer put that pressure point in there for a reason. That being that it was one heck of a lot cheaper to add a pressure point than to bed the rifle properly. Especially on todays cheap flexible plastic stocks and light weight barrels. Free float a barrel and not address the bedding issue and your bound to have a gun just as bad. Though if it shoots like a shotgun now what do you have to lose :dunno:
I have never seen much improvement to simply removing the pressure point and nothing else. In fact, with Rugers I almost always see groups get worse when doing so. As a result I never remove someones barrel pressure band without also bedding the action too. Say what you will about floating, trigger creep, trigger pull weight and blue printing the action. But, in my opinion the foundation of all great shooting rifles is a good bedding job and works out from there. Without that solid foundation pressure points are quite often a necessary evil.
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 19, 2014, 05:51:50 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 19, 2014, 06:13:04 PM
If this doesn't work, I guess I will have to address the bedding issue next. Don't really have the money to make substantial investments into a new stock or smithing at this point, so hopefully sanding it works!
Post by: RadSav on July 19, 2014, 06:46:25 PM
I hate to replace the stock, as its a beautiful laminate stock. I am going to try sanding down the pressure point first. As was said, what do I have to lose, it already groups like crap!
If this doesn't work, I guess I will have to address the bedding issue next. Don't really have the money to make substantial investments into a new stock or smithing at this point, so hopefully sanding it works!
If it is a laminated stock I'd certainly go for it. Might be the best wood stock Remington makes so I agree...keep it! Use the method Biggerhammer mentioned. It's easy enough to add it back if you need to. Be sure to seal the stock in the area where you remove the hump. Inside the barrel channel just about any urethane type coating will do.
I also noticed when I took the barrel out today, that one of the little shims that goes between the action and the stock is missing, causing the gun to tighten down odd. Should I try to track down another shim or just eliminate the one I have so everytihng sits appropriately.
I've had a few Mountain rifles and I do not remember action shims. Maybe Biggerhammer can answer whether they now install shims from the factory. Seems odd to me unless they knew the inletting was screwed up to begin with. Are you the first owner of this rifle or did you buy it second hand?
I have a new Ruger stock coming for an RL I bought from a H-W member. Seems "Ultra Light" wasn't good enough for him. So it was drilled full of holes and the forearm hollowed out. They attempted to bed the action, but instead bedded every thing except the load bearing part of the lug. :dunno: :bash: And he said the work was done by a smith :chuckle:
Anyway, I mention this since when this new stock gets here I will be adding pillars and bedding the action. Might not make it until after this years hunting season. But, I could probably do both this one and yours at the same time for not much more than the one as long as I'm not under a time crunch. I do have a set of 700 pillars that have been sitting around here for about 10 years (last time I owned a Remington). You could have those for free.
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 19, 2014, 07:05:29 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 19, 2014, 07:24:19 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 19, 2014, 07:46:54 PM
Post by: brokenvet on July 20, 2014, 07:46:26 AM
Your ammo are they store bought or hand loads? What weight, are they flat base or boat tails? Barrel twist?
Barrel twist makes a difference in the type of bullet and weight. I will assume that your shooting a 120 & 140 grain bullets and that your barrel twist is a 1-9".
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 08:16:53 AM
I understand that part of this is the light weight barrel heating up very fast. However, yesterday I was letting it sit 10 minutes between shots and running a patch through it before each shot, to no avail. There are many threads out there where people have had great success sanding out the pressure point and bedding the action.
I know for a fact the scope mounts are good, but I do feel there is a possibility the action is loose. I'm really leaning towards bedding the action on this gun. Its something that I have absolutely no experience and am not set up to do at home, but also don't have the funds to have a gunsmith do it for me. Anyone that can offer some insite would be appreciated. I watched several youtube videos last night, it doesn't look to difficult, but the last thing I want is this being done halfass
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2014, 08:53:18 AM
The majority of your hunting rifles will string the third shot in a group. Even many of the well floated barrels do this. Oddly enough the only lightweight barreled guns I own that do not do this a little bit are the ones with carbon stocks and full length barrel bedding - One a NULA the other a Kimber.
Pressure point guns do make that third shot string higher than floated barrels. Though I'd hope in a hunting situation I've made those first two shots count :o That is a great stock, but I do think what you said about an action shim missing is contributing to your troubles. You could always sell me that gun for cheap and I'd take care of it for you :chuckle:
One of the things I didn't see you mention is what groups you are currently getting. Most of the stock Mountain rifles I've played with are about 1.5" guns with the first two rounds and then a third round going high by an additional inch or more. Similar to the Ruger RL which would be there equivalent rifle in that brand. All but one of those after full action bedding and floating improved at least 50% with factory ammo. One that did not improve was taken to the machine shop and shortened just enough to recut the crown. After that is was a tack driving SOB!
One other thing you need to watch on the RL, Model 7 and Mountain rifles is where you place the stock on the bag. None shoot well with a bipod and bags should be placed within 4-5" of the magazine. That thin fore end is just too flexible to place the bags out front...even on the laminate stock! When trying to get these guns to group I like to place a piece of electrical tape on the stock and place the bag in the exact some place each time. When floating these guns I like to leave almost excess amounts of space in the barrel channel. The normal dollar bill or folded dollar bill doesn't seem enough when you rush a shot and don't get the stock placed on your pack or a rock just right.
You will notice Tikka, Sako and Ruger have floated the barrels on the new Tupperware stocks with huge gaps between barrel and stock. I expect for similar reason.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 09:27:18 AM
I agree that the missing shim is probably attributing to the problem, so I would like to find a replacement, but wonder if eliminating the one thats there would also work. The shims go in underneath on either end of the trigger assembly, between it and the stock. They aren't directly affecting the seating of the action on top of the stock. If they are eliminated completely, I can't imagine it making that large of a difference. My gut tells me they were there to strengthen that connection and put less stress on the stock at those points.
Your comment about the only two lightweight rifles that DON'T stray a third shot are full length bedded makes me wonder if the lighterweight/flexible stock will perform better when "stiffened" so to speak by glass bedding. This would also eliminate inconsistent contact with the barrel?
It really sounds like if I want this gun to be the tackdriver I know it can be, I need to float the barrel and glassbed the action, or potentially glassbed the whole thing. I am all about doing this myself, but don't want to feel my way around and screw something up. If someone is willing to mentor/supervise and make sure I do this right, I would love to get together and take care of this. I probably have the funds to purchase the materials to do it, but not to pay someone to do it for me.
Post by: brokenvet on July 20, 2014, 09:28:19 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2283647161/devcon-plastic-steel-bedding-compound?cm_vc=ProductFinding (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2283647161/devcon-plastic-steel-bedding-compound?cm_vc=ProductFinding)
I've used the putty of this product, used Min floor wax generously as a release agent & masking tape.
The 1-9" twist with 139's should give you at least 1" groups at 100 yards. It maybe a factory defective barrel plus the stock issue.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 20, 2014, 09:33:30 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 20, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
If a gun puts the first shot in the same place, with or without an adequate support that you would use hunting (bipod, etc.) then it is a keeper.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 09:50:14 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 20, 2014, 09:53:40 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2014, 10:02:11 AM
Your comment about the only two lightweight rifles that DON'T stray a third shot are full length bedded makes me wonder if the lighterweight/flexible stock will perform better when "stiffened" so to speak by glass bedding. This would also eliminate inconsistent contact with the barrel?
It really sounds like if I want this gun to be the tackdriver I know it can be, I need to float the barrel and glassbed the action, or potentially glassbed the whole thing. I am all about doing this myself, but don't want to feel my way around and screw something up. If someone is willing to mentor/supervise and make sure I do this right, I would love to get together and take care of this. I probably have the funds to purchase the materials to do it, but not to pay someone to do it for me.
Both the NULA and the Montana have extremely stiff stocks. I'm not so sure I'd be overly eager to full length bed the barrel on either the RL, 7 or Mtn rifles due to the thin fore arm. That would be a method of last resort with those models if they were mine. And then if I did full length bed the barrel I'd install graphite stiffeners from the lug forward.
My plan of attach on that gun would be to first figure out what that dang shim thing is all about. Still makes no sense to me unless the action is just sloppy as heck. And even then it's a bandaide and not a solution! Since the action would get bedded on pillars I would float the barrel leaving 1/16" to 3/32" if clearance. Seems extreme but it will allow the shooter to place the stock wherever you want on a rock or a pack or on a shooting stick without worry of the stock flexing into the barrel oscillation. Then if it still doesn't group it would get chucked up in the lathe and the crown would be trued.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 10:06:49 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Grouping wise, there really is none. Last year with handloads I was averaging a 2" group or so. Have not been able to find powder until yesterday for this load, so I bought Hornaday Superformance rounds, and literally had bullets in a 6" circle with no pattern at all.
I've tried the Superformance rounds in a 1.25" 7rm, a 1.5" .308 and a .5" Bob. I've never been able to get better than a 3" group with the stuff. I;ve read of others having good luck with it, but I'll ever waste the money again!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 20, 2014, 10:10:27 AM
I agree that multiple shots should not have to be counted on. Nearly every animal I've ever killed has been a one shot kill. At this point I don't have the confidence to hunt with this gun, which is frustrating. I will not take a gun into the woods with a 2"+ group, let alone what I'm dealing with right now.You are more than welcome to come and see me sometime since your so close ..We can try working up a load and head out the back door to shoot it until we find what it likes ..Heck the load I just loaded for my wife's 7mm-08 just might work ..again a lot of time spent at the table and at the range ...I do not make offers like that much ... :chuckle:
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 10:16:15 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 10:17:30 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 20, 2014, 10:21:52 AM
As I'm getting ready to start sanding the barrel channel, I want to confirm how far up you sand. You can see sharpied in the picture, a very deliberate stock design. The barrel definitely rests in this "V" in front of the recoil lug. Would you sand this out completely as well?This takes time too ..just like BOB stated ..use a dollar bill and sand just enough to where the barrel is not touching wood ,,this means sanding and putting the barrel back on the gun with the screws snug and sliding a dollar bill down until you find the spot it is touching ..sand a little and repeat until it is free from touching the stock ..not to cut in on conversion but I am bored ... :chuckle:
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 10:25:40 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2014, 12:45:44 PM
I think from that picture you can see what the shim was for. And if that is the case there would have only been one shim. To me it looks like they cut the inletting crooked. So the shim may very well be to keep the action straight and the barrel inline with the pressure point. I'm afraid if you take out the chamber inletting the action is just going to walk all over the place. So I would keep that V there until you are ready to bed the action. Or at least bed the lug better than that rubbery stuff the manufacture put in there before removing the V. I'm not too optimistic the floating is going to do much good. But give it a try and see.
I'll see how long it will take to get some good bedding compound that I might be able to match the stock color. I normally just do black/grey on everything. But that beechnut stock is so pretty would be nice to match color closely. Don't think one would absolutely need to use Acraglas Gel so I'll see if any of my old smith buddies have had any luck with brown coloring and Brownell Steel Bed. Might be the best compromise between Acraglas and the grey Devcon & MarineTex. I've been meaning to look at this for the wife's new build anyway.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 06:31:38 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2014, 06:40:46 PM
The front end I feel like I'm sanding and sanding and sanding and not getting anywhere...
I have a similar stock on a 7mm. I felt I wasn't getting anywhere. Then put the action back in the stock and :yike: I had removed more than I thought. Now I use a barrel channel tool instead :chuckle: However, I think with that stock going a little too much isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 20, 2014, 07:40:43 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 03:34:56 AM
I once had a guy with a model 700 who had used shims alongside the trigger assembly to straighten the action in the inletting. His thought was that by applying pressure to the assembly would place the barrel in the stock properly without creating a flex point in the action. Of course that caused all kinds of problems. And is probably why my mind went that direction instead of paying more attention to your photo. I cooked up some homemade chili yesterday and perhaps that's the source of my brain fart :dunno: :chuckle:
I have placed shims/spacers between the bottom metal and stock a number of times when dealing with after market stocks and hinged floor plates. Easier to place a spacer in there than to sand the bottom of the stock and then refinish. Sometimes a simple spacer is all that is required to get the floor plate to work properly and not bind. Almost every laminated aftermarket stock I've gotten from Stockystocks has had hinged floor plate issues because of bottom metal inletting being too deep. Takes only a minute to cut spacers and eliminate the problem. And it's a whole lot easier than bedding the bottom metal which I have done a number of times too...BIG PITA!
Unless you have action screws that are too long having the spacers or not having the spacers should not effect accuracy. That is unless not having the spacer causes pinching of the magazine box against the action which does happen when Remington, Ruger and Howa inletting is too deep. One of the more common mistakes inexperienced and hobby smiths make when bedding the action. When that happens the choices are to either skim bed the action, add shim/spacers to the bottom metal or grind the magazine box. As you can imagine the easiest is definitely to add the spacers. When fitted properly you should be able to wiggle the magazine box slightly after all action screws are tightened and the floor plate is released. Pinched magazine boxes can and do effect accuracy!
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 04:06:16 AM
For clarities sake...In school we mostly played with flat bottom actions. So my Remington experience is limited to maybe only eight or ten pieces. Someone like Biggerhammer has obviously had much more hands on experience with the 700 action than I have. So when he says that removing the hump has helped time and time again I would probably lend more credit to his experience than mine. Hopefully following his lead and floating to the lug will result in the accuracy you are looking for!
Be sure to let us know how she shoots next time you hit the range. I am hoping all will be resolved! However, if you do not see improvement or not enough improvement I will do what I can to help. Might be another good H-W "cookies for labor" exchange or something like that.
Or of course you could donate it to my wife's 7-08 build I have planned for next year :chuckle:
Post by: 7mmfan on July 21, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
I sanded and sanded and sanded some more last night, and I am now to the point that I can run a bill from the end of the stock all the way to the recoil lug. I just need to touch it up a little bit and then load a few rounds and take it out to shoot. I do think that if I'm going to go this far, I may as well bed the action as well. If I can get it to huntable standards, I will probably do that this winter.
Rad you mentioned that it looked like there was a problem with the lug not sitting in the inletting square... what is leading you to that? When everything is put together, the recoil lug is definitely sitting down in there. Are you thinking its not far enough down in there or what?
Thank you for all the insite and help, I greatly appreciate it.
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 11:50:00 AM
Rad you mentioned that it looked like there was a problem with the lug not sitting in the inletting square... what is leading you to that? When everything is put together, the recoil lug is definitely sitting down in there. Are you thinking its not far enough down in there or what?
I'm actually thinking the inletting or the action is not square. I think I am seeing the recoil lug recess cut further to the right side of the channel than the left side. While that doesn't normally mean much it could because of what I think is factory bedding goo on the left side of the recess/groove. If that really is the almost worthless rubbery goo factories consider bedding I would assume there would be more on the over cut side than the typical cut side if the lug contact was flush with the inletting. And even a larger concern is that it seems the goo is located and squirting up behind the lug instead of in front of the lug like you would want. Makes me believe the lug is not making even contact with the more solid wood.
Then again, I just might be seeing something that isn't really there. Might just be some dirt :dunno:
Post by: 7mmfan on July 21, 2014, 12:14:56 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 12:29:24 PM
BTW - ClatterTads...NICE :tup:
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 05:19:16 PM
But if you wanted to save a couple bucks I know guys that have used JB weld with Kiwi shoe polish for a releasing agent.
Always use Kiwi neutral. Best release agent there is IMO.
I bought a gun off a guy who needed some money badly. Gun was a huge pile of pitted Smith & Wesson trash, but he wouldn't take my money unless I took something in trade. Bore was good so I decided to do a home brew bluing and a quick bed job to get it useful enough to donate to someone in need at the church. Took it to the range with some 300 WM 180 Core-Lokts. As expected the groups were about 3.5"
I figured all I could expect was to get serviceable accuracy out of the gun. So I wasn't going to spend much money on it. That meant taking the extra time to use up some slow rust bluing I had laying around since school, JB Weld, and some Linseed Oil I used on my drift boat.
Once the rifle stock was stripped of all the flaking varnish I relieved the appropriate surfaces and bedded with the JB Weld. Then I replaced the crown with a target style crown. Stripped the old bluing and while the four week process of bluing took place I worked on sanding, truing up the checkering and rubbing down the stock. After nearly three months of slowly working on the gun little by little it looked pretty dang nice for being thrown together with elbow grease and bargain supplies. The old Weaver scope looked out of place on the nice blued action but heck...someone was going to get it for free :chuckle:
Fishing was picking up so I didn't get it sighted in until my parents told some guy from the church that I probably had a gun he could borrow for elk season. I said, "I sure do, but I'm not sure how she is going to shoot. Lets hit the range together." The darn gun shot 1.125" groups with the factory Remington ammo and that old Weaver scope!
Ten years later I'm now living in Seattle and I get a call from some guy named Richard. "Sorry" I say, "I don't know anyone named Richard ******". He tells me I gave him a gun after his wife left him years ago so he could go elk hunting with his father. He wanted to call and tell me he was still shooting the gun, had just put a Leupold scope on it and had a friend work up a hand load. Gun was shooting .750" groups!...fast forward another 8 or 10 years to my folks wedding vow renewal goofball thing... I run into the Richard character and he tells me the gun is still shooting 3/4" groups with his hunting rounds and the year previous he had handed the gun down to his son who had just taken his first bull with it.
Point to the story :dunno: JB Weld is actually pretty dang good stuff when you need a bargain bedding :chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on July 21, 2014, 05:32:28 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 21, 2014, 05:39:00 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 21, 2014, 07:54:03 PM
I cleaned it 1st ..then put three down range ..I waited a few minutes on the 1st three and then waited until it cooled down and shot the next 4 about 6 to 10 minutes apart ....Once I clean it I do not clean again until I put it away for the year ...Here ya go ..Just tuned in my .270 since Bear season starts in a few days ...I cleaned the barrel and started fresh ..Here is the results with a 140 gr hornaday interlock loaded with 54.3 gr IMR 4831 ...Note: the 4 shot group is letting the barrel cool down about 6 to 10 minutes ..Mountain rifle is very touchy ..it takes time to wait but if you want bullets to hit each other out of a gun like a mountain rifle this is what I recommend :twocents: :chuckle:
So just to clarify how did that go? Did you shoot and clean after each shot on the clean shot ones? Or did you shoot the first three out of a clean barrel without cleaning between each shot?
Post by: 7mmfan on July 22, 2014, 07:27:12 AM
BOWHUNTER, I've heard of people doing what you're saying you do, not cleaning the gun all season. I've never been able to convince myself this is a good idea, (i'm kind of a neat freak when it comes to my firearms).
Do other people out there do this as well? I'm very curious about it.
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 07:59:50 AM
I do run tape over the end of the barrel if it is raining. If I forget tape and spend a day out in the nasty stuff I will clean as soon as I return home. Nice thing about having back up guns ready to go. If I do not have time to fowl the barrel again I grab the next rifle in the bag for the following day. Usually with my #1 gun in the truck just in case I find a safe and non-intrusive spot to drop three more rounds into the dirt.
My old girl friend whose father was the old Marine sniper would have us write down our fowling shots and our hot string shots. That way if we needed to hunt with a clean gun we knew where to adjust our first shot aim and our hot barrel aim if we needed one. Seemed to work rather well. But I haven't bothered to keep doing this since I find it easier to just carry a dirty gun and have a backup. I've thought about doing it a gain. But I guess I'm lazy.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 22, 2014, 08:25:01 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 22, 2014, 08:28:34 AM
Is it possible to effectively pillar mount after I bed the action?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 22, 2014, 09:10:50 AM
here is what I loaded in my wife's 7mm-08 about a 1/2 to 3/4 group ! 139gr Horn. Interlock / 45.5 gr IMR 4350 / SEAT 2.770 C.O.L
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 09:15:29 AM
I have a feeling I'll be stopping at Cabelas on my way home though to check out bedding kits.
Is it possible to effectively pillar mount after I bed the action?
Yes it is possible to Pillar bed after you bed the action. But, generally speaking it is either done at the same time as the bedding or prior to bedding. Not sure there would be much benefit to doing it afterward and the risk of messing up your bedding job runs high.
I would not be so eager to get a bedding kit from Cabela's! Do more research on-line and buy over the internet. That Gilbert Bed kit and the AcraGlas kits are mediocre at best IMO.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 22, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
Started with a three shot group out of a cold/clean barrel (no pic) that was 2" left of center and 8" low, in about a 2" group.
I made a scope adjustment and waited about 10 minutes and fired my first shot (far left)
Made my next adjustment, waited 10 minutes, fired my next shot, (center)
Made one more adjustment, 10 minutes, (far right shot).
At this point I was out of time, so I waited a few minutes, no adjustment, and fired the shot just under the far right shot.
Those 2 shots are probably the 2 best consecutive shots I've ever gotten out of that rifle. I think that with a little more tuning of the load, I'll have her dialed in to hunt this season. This winter I will take your advice Radsav and do a quality bedding and pillar job on the action to solidify everything. As it stands now, I am MILES ahead of where I was before.
Thanks for the advice, it has helped tremendously.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 22, 2014, 02:00:57 PM
This load was 45gr of H380 with 139 Hornaday Interlock.
I have a 45.5gr H380 load that I am going to shoot next time. Not sure how much .5 gr will make, but I figured bumping up the load in .5gr increments isn't a bad idea.
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 02:45:04 PM
I'd also encourage you to ditch the single spot target and go to a five spot for working up groups. A lot of free printable downloadable on the net. Or by a stack at the gun store. Hornady Lock-n-load is one of my favorites. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to group when your not trying to hit the center of a small round dot.
Post by: RadSav on July 26, 2014, 12:06:10 PM
I have a Ruger M77 varmint rifle that has a problem with an inletting high point. It is actually inletted quite nicely, but a combination of time and over torqueing the action screws has created an off center high spot of uneven pressure on the action and seems to be effecting accuracy. Normally I would just add pillars, remove 1/16" of material in all appropriate spots and do a complete bed. But, this rifle is quite unique and I was hoping to accomplish a good result while keeping the rifle as close to original as possible.
I coated the bottom of the action well with powder foot spray and assembled the gun with a very minimal torque on the action screws. Then removed the action and reviewed the powder transfer to the stock. Then with a very small sharp wood chisel I removed about .005 to .010" of wood at the contact points I wanted to avoid. I then reassembled and repeated the process until the powder transferred only to the areas I wanted.
You can see from the pictures how the powder transfers well with no mess. You can also see that after eliminating the high mid point contact the action dropped far enough that the bolt release lever started making contact as well. So about .015" of wood was relieved from the side of the stock where the lever made contact. I also had to remove about .010" from the bottom/front of the magazine box to eliminate a pinch created when the action dropped.
You need extremely sharp tools and smooth steady strokes. And I could probably have bedded the action in nearly the same amount of time. But results can be very effective if you have good inletting to start with. I'll take it to the range tomorrow and see if the 1.75" groups have gotten any better. I'm pretty confident they will!
Post by: RadSav on July 30, 2014, 12:08:21 AM
I'll certainly accept the result though! Looks to have improved group size by nearly an inch. Sometimes it just doesn't take much to get that rifle to fall into it's groove.
Three shot 100 yard group. Plus one single after four clicks to the west.
Post by: 7mmfan on August 04, 2014, 08:56:14 PM
So I was finally able to get back out and shoot this gun again. The last time I shot I had walked it into about where I wanted it and then had to leave without finishing the job. I was thrilled to find that my first group was right where I'd left the last one. :tup:
First 3 shots were a 3/4" group just right of center. Made one small adjustment and put 2 rounds 1.5" high and dead center 3/4" apart. I'd say floating the barrel made a difference!
Load: 45 gr H380
139 gr Hornady Interlocks
Magnum primer
Shot out of a dirty barrel, not cleaned after last time out.
VERY happy this gun is shooting now. Thanks to everyone who offered knowledge a suggestions. I learned a lot through this process.
Post by: RadSav on August 04, 2014, 09:06:17 PM
Maybe next time run a five shot string and let us know what that looks like. I'd be very interested to find out!
Post by: huntnphool on August 04, 2014, 09:17:19 PM
Impatience sometimes does not allow a full story to develop. After getting the inletting sealed I headed to the range to see what difference it made. Problem was my impatience led me to try a new load at the same time as checking what improvements were met in the bedding work. Not sure which had the biggest impact :dunno:
I'll certainly accept the result though! Looks to have improved group size by nearly an inch. Sometimes it just doesn't take much to get that rifle to fall into it's groove.
Three shot 100 yard group. Plus one single after four clicks to the west.
I've got the same M77 that has about the same accuracy. :tup:
Post by: 7mmfan on September 12, 2014, 09:01:07 AM
I realized this morning that I forgot to reseal the stock where I sanded. I know alot of people use polyurethane, but I've also heard people use Tru-oil as a sealer. I'm assuming the polyurethane is tougher but is there any pros/cons to using one or the other?
Post by: RadSav on September 12, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
I personally use a "hand wipe" poly-U on all my laminated stock guns. It is super thin and really gets into every pore without having to be applied very thick. Just be sure to give it a complete 24 hours before assembly!
Post by: 7mmfan on September 12, 2014, 08:51:14 PM
I'm very glad that I put the effort into making this gun shoot. My nephew who was on the fence about hunting this year has decided that he wants to go, so starting next week we will be in intensive training a couple times a week behind the rifle until the opener. I would so love to have him drop his first buck with this gun!