Post by: Tbob on July 22, 2014, 02:40:51 PM
Could some please explain to me what "a cold calling session" is and when you use this tactic? I'll be archery hunting the sept season on the west end and was wondering if this is a tactic that I should have in my bag of techniques? I will be with my brother so there will be two of us. Thanks for the insight!
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 22, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
How long to stay in one place? I would say 15 minutes at a minimum, but, up to an hour if you feel there is a good chance that there are elk in the area. I have a hard time sitting still so my sessions range from ten minutes up to 30 minutes. It seems like every year, I have at least an elk or two stealth in on me and not show him/herself until I stand up and get ready to move. Patience is paramount in cold calling.
What sounds to use? You’ll get different recommendations from different hunters for sure. I like to start with some casual herd talk (cow/calf noises) and some light brush rubbing (not smashing) to simulate a grazing group of elk. I will mix in a short scream and light chuckles (simulating a bull calling the cows to him) and will also throw in some actual brush/tree raking (simulating a bull advertising for the cows). I don’t think there is a good or bad script for this, as long as it sounds pretty natural (ask yourself when making your noises/movements, “would I think that is a group of elk if I heard it”?). Realism of sounds in addition to the area chosen to launch a cold calling session is important.
What normally comes in? This method is notorious for calling cows, spikes, and young rag horns your way. Yes, I’ve called in some big ones too but for the most part, cold calling will pick up cows, spikes, and little dudes looking for a place to hang their hat so to speak. They’re lonely and you’re inviting them over for dinner in a sense ;)
Setups? As terrain is different in the various states/areas we hunt, you’ll need to work with what you have to maximize your opportunities for a shot. I would say stay clear of large opening set ups as elk do not like having to cross meadows, parks, etc., to come see what’s making the racket. Be aware of natural funnels in the area you set up (blow down, trails, walls of alder, uprooted stumps, deep ravines, water, etc.) that can be used to your advantage to guide an incoming elk to where you or your partner may have a shot opportunity. This entails some forethought and a bit of luck.. oftentimes you’ll only be guessing where you think an elk may come in from; but as we know, elk have their own schedule and plans most of the time. You’ll need to study the thermals/wind very close when choosing your initial setup, and, throughout the session. Yes, you want to try and set up so an elk is “forced” by the natural terrain features to come in upwind from your position but this is not always the ultimate end state of these sessions. Elk will oftentimes do their best to try to get the scent of whatever is making the elk racket so be prepared for them to come in from almost any direction, particularly downwind of your position.
Oh, and yes, I think this method is a valuable tool to have available in our elk kit bags for the early WA archery elk season. Good luck to you and your brother this fall Tbob!
Post by: Tbob on July 22, 2014, 03:38:54 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on July 23, 2014, 05:51:05 PM
Post by: Eli346 on July 23, 2014, 06:47:13 PM
Post by: MattySuto on July 23, 2014, 10:23:20 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 24, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
So do you think it's smart to set up a ground blind In an area were elk constantly travel to and from there beds to fields to eat an sit in there for hours and just constantly cow call/ calf call with an occasional bugle? Even at the peek of the day or more towards the evenings? Great write by the way....I basically sit up off a creek and field where I know the elk come to feed but time of day is what I'm really asking...
I fully believe ground blinds and tree stand hunting are deadly ways to hunt elk if deployed properly. I think that calling (for the most part) from either of these types of setups can significantly decrease the element of surprise for the hunter. I'm not saying that an occasional cow call to create interest in a elk passing a bit away from your stand location is not a good thing, but for the most part, you've chosen your spot for a reason (good funnel/pinch point) and calling may alert something to your location "before" they pass by which may divert them. Cold calling is more moving, stopping, setting up, and seeing if anything is within earshot. Sounds like you have a good spot picked out to ground blind hunt (perhaps a main trail or intersecting trails going from feed to bed and vice versa). If the elk are using this route to go to water from their beds, I'd say you have an opportunity to see an elk any time of the day. If it's just a feed/bed route, then I'd be there for the last hour of daylight in the evening, and, in your blind prior to daylight to try to intercept the wapiti as they move through your area.
Post by: Little Fish on July 24, 2014, 01:26:00 PM
I am not very patient so have a hard sitting in one spot for 30-45 minutes calling and waiting. For this reason I try and cold-call while I eat lunch. It is the only way I can prevent myself from calling too much + give the routine enough time to work.
LF
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 24, 2014, 01:56:36 PM
I am not very patient so have a hard sitting in one spot for 30-45 minutes calling and waiting. For this reason I try and cold-call while I eat lunch. It is the only way I can prevent myself from calling too much + give the routine enough time to work. LF
Man I hear ya brother. Just off the to of my head, here are three times when I cold called during lunch break and the results were, well, less than desireable (grin).
1. Late 80s, NW Montana. Late morning, sitting above a shale rock slide snacking on sands with my buddy. I said "you never know" and threw a locator down the mountain side. I was rudely shocked back into why I was out there when a nice 5 point yelped at me from 20 feet up above us in the timber. That's the first time I probably heard a nervous/popping grunt. Needless to say, no chance at a shot for the two bozos sitting in the open above the rock slide. I chalk this one up to being young :)
2. Fast forward to around 2002ish, sitting on elk trails in 6 foot tall huckleberry bushes in the XXXX wilderness area in WA. My buddy and I at least had the presence of mind to split up a bit and have our lunch (I knew there were elk near by; they're always in there). So, I let out a few soft cow calls and within a few minutes, I was nearly ran over by a "HUGE" 2X3 bull (grin). Did it again.
3. The other time that comes to mind is about 5 or 6 years ago in a remote WA area. I had taken an Alaskan transplant under my wing and taken him elk hunting. Long story short, mid day lunch, sitting by a log with packs off/bows laying around, I gave a small spike squeal cuz my buddy asked what a spike sounded like; I probably threw in a few soft cow calls also. Back to snacking, talking, sun bathing, etc., when I looked down into the small open draw below us and "here he came". A very, very nice mature 6X was strolling up to see where the racket came from. No chance to get the "30 yard shot" as our scrambling for a bow was pretty much out in the open and he decided he didn't want to have lunch with us. It seems that this herd bull was bedded down below us no more than 50 or 60 yards with his small group of cows. Uggggh, I seem to have these impatient moments/episodes at least a time or two every year.
Post by: Tbob on July 25, 2014, 01:38:44 PM
I have two different spots that you have described. My #1 spot is way off the road way down a steep hillside and at the bottom is a nice wet area with a very big chewed up trail with lots of drainages and trails coming off the hillside that intersect it. I've got a few good bulls on camera down there ( actually I was there this past Sunday checking my cameras, it was 12:30 in the afternoon and here come two nice bulls down the hill and hit my trail and headed the opposite direction. At this point I just pulledy camera and figure no sense in going down there any more smelling up the place. This is where I plan on being opening morning in a tree stand and really quiet.. As for the cold calling technique, I've scouted an old overgrown road and it goes a good three miles before it dead ends. Ive looked around and can't really see any major trail systems off the road into the timber, but there's always poop on the road. That big clumpy kind. So I though this road would be perfect for the call, sit, move and repeat for a day or two and see if I couldn't make something happen? Thanks again for the great advise ! You guys are a wealth of hard learned knowledge for some of us newbie self taught hunters..
Post by: bowhuntersd on July 26, 2014, 05:49:14 PM
Cold calling or blind calling as some call this method, is generally used when elk are not being very vocal. This normally (but not always) coincides with early season elk hunting. A hunter, or hunters, will set up in an area that they have either seen/heard elk before, or, by merely choosing a set up spot in an area that has fresh sign will oftentimes answer the mail. Setup is important, more on that later. What the hunters are trying to do with cold calling is create “interest” from other elk and lure them in their direction for a possible close encounter/shot opportunity. Since we’ve decided to set up and cold call, we have already determined that the elk are not being very vocal (obviously, if they’re being vocal.... we’d just get closer to them without saying a peep and see how things develop). This said, more often than not, elk will come in silent to cold calling and the hunter/hunters must plan for and be prepared for this. Elk can be very, very quiet for such large animals. Yes, sometimes a cow or bull will spout off vocally when coming in to a cold calling set but don’t count on that occurring the majority of the time.
How long to stay in one place? I would say 15 minutes at a minimum, but, up to an hour if you feel there is a good chance that there are elk in the area. I have a hard time sitting still so my sessions range from ten minutes up to 30 minutes. It seems like every year, I have at least an elk or two stealth in on me and not show him/herself until I stand up and get ready to move. Patience is paramount in cold calling.
What sounds to use? You’ll get different recommendations from different hunters for sure. I like to start with some casual herd talk (cow/calf noises) and some light brush rubbing (not smashing) to simulate a grazing group of elk. I will mix in a short scream and light chuckles (simulating a bull calling the cows to him) and will also throw in some actual brush/tree raking (simulating a bull advertising for the cows). I don’t think there is a good or bad script for this, as long as it sounds pretty natural (ask yourself when making your noises/movements, “would I think that is a group of elk if I heard it”?). Realism of sounds in addition to the area chosen to launch a cold calling session is important.
What normally comes in? This method is notorious for calling cows, spikes, and young rag horns your way. Yes, I’ve called in some big ones too but for the most part, cold calling will pick up cows, spikes, and little dudes looking for a place to hang their hat so to speak. They’re lonely and you’re inviting them over for dinner in a sense ;)
Setups? As terrain is different in the various states/areas we hunt, you’ll need to work with what you have to maximize your opportunities for a shot. I would say stay clear of large opening set ups as elk do not like having to cross meadows, parks, etc., to come see what’s making the racket. Be aware of natural funnels in the area you set up (blow down, trails, walls of alder, uprooted stumps, deep ravines, water, etc.) that can be used to your advantage to guide an incoming elk to where you or your partner may have a shot opportunity. This entails some forethought and a bit of luck.. oftentimes you’ll only be guessing where you think an elk may come in from; but as we know, elk have their own schedule and plans most of the time. You’ll need to study the thermals/wind very close when choosing your initial setup, and, throughout the session. Yes, you want to try and set up so an elk is “forced” by the natural terrain features to come in upwind from your position but this is not always the ultimate end state of these sessions. Elk will oftentimes do their best to try to get the scent of whatever is making the elk racket so be prepared for them to come in from almost any direction, particularly downwind of your position.
Oh, and yes, I think this method is a valuable tool to have available in our elk kit bags for the early WA archery elk season. Good luck to you and your brother this fall Tbob!
Now this is what this site is all about. THANK YOU ... Willingness to share your knowledge and giving an explaination for those who may or may not need it is GREAT. For those that are new, RETAIN this info and for those that are seasoned it is nice to confirm our techniques with other.
GREAT JOB and THANK YOU :tup:
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 26, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
OK, picture time 8)
I've tried to create a graphic representation of a possible cold calling situation. Let's say it's late morning and you find yourself on a bench that you have encounted elk traffic in the past, and, there is fresh sign in the area. It's early in the year and so far, the elk have been very, very quiet. Take what you see from the picture and decide where you may set up the caller and shooter for a possible cold calling set up here. In addition to placing your caller and shooter (scribble an "S" for shooter and a "C" for caller when you mark up my fine work of art) for the optimum setup considering what you see/know, and, what do you think may happen that is not in the "expected" column? Now we're having some fun campers...the elkwoods are calling and it's getting close!
Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open it up in "paint", you can mark it up however you wish. Looking for placement for the caller and shooter for this scenario.
Post by: returnofsid on July 28, 2014, 08:43:31 AM
I'd really like some feedback on my choices, if possible!
Post by: Tbob on July 28, 2014, 09:24:26 AM
Post by: Netminder01 on July 28, 2014, 09:39:13 AM
Post by: lamrith on July 28, 2014, 10:23:44 AM
Set-up to make the most use of the one pinch point I see. Shooter upwind at pinch on backside of the trees. Depending on bulls entrance it should provide at most a 50yrd shot and bulls attention past him on the caller. Caller and maybe a decoy if possible set @ C and D respectively. Hoping the shooter can also call, he starts by sending out a few cow/calf calls, turning to make them sound trailing away toward the caller. Caller then can follow later with more calls. Keeping caller high in area so lead the bull close to shooter rather than chance the bull going thru the entrance trees toward a deeper set calling layout.
Post by: Shawn Ryan on July 28, 2014, 11:17:59 AM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 28, 2014, 06:58:19 PM
I have my shooter up close to where the bull is expected and in front of the trees/brush so he has no obstructions and my caller in a more concealed area where he can better move, if necessary. Either way, I want my shooter further into the wind or off to the side. I might expect the bull to come from the upper right, but I also expect him to want to gain wind advantage on the caller, so maybe he comes in from the upper left, given the wind direction.
Yes sir, here ya go guys! Try to set up so you will have the wind in your favor and big stinky at a disadvantage (hoping he's hot enough or curious enough to throw caution to the wind, so to speak, and just come in to your sounds) but be prepared for the elk to work quietly, and sometimes quickly, to a spot where he has your wind. This occurs many times during these setups, particularly as you get deeper into the season. What SR mentioned about setting the shooter up "in front" of cover is key... Camo blended against a good backdrop is money. If you're a shooter behind something, you're probably not in the best location for many reasons. The caller should also be in a position to blend in with his/her surroundings... after all, that's what the elk is coming in for/after, yes?. If you're upstairs in your bedroom and somebody drops a glass on your kitchen floor, you know where the sound came from. Amplify that meager understanding of a human's surroundings X 10 and you have Mr. or Mrs. Elk. They know their terroritory intimately. The other setups aren't bad at all, you cats are tuned in, but again, ensure you use cover/concealment "behind" you to your advantage. Never hunker down behind a tree, HB bush, blowdown, etc., or it may result in an unfavorable outcome. I do like Lamrith's introduction of a decoy into the mix. What kind of decoy are you thinking of packing with you sir?
Now, on to the next phase of this topic (thanks for getting it rolling Tbob). How does, and when does, the shooter become the caller? Please provide a scenario when the shooter realizes that he/she "now" needs to become the caller and possibly stop old bullwinkle in his tracks with a nervous/popping grunt to seal the deal for the original caller? Team effort, right ;)
Post by: lamrith on July 28, 2014, 08:12:05 PM
Maybe a Montana Miss September Feeding Cow Elk Decoy. Thinking there is that qtr away head down feeding is a relaxed posture, for a visual, "all is well, you like what you see?"
Phase 2.
Assume both parties are in front of cover with good backdrop. :chuckle:
So Mr Stinky is all fired up and blows right past the original shooter, who is :cryriver: as he had no chance to draw and was so close he could have stuck an arrow in him by hand..
Couple paths here with different needs. Pink is original shooter is shot taker. Black is no-mans land (crossfire). Blue is caller is hunter and original shooter is support. Green free for all, caller stays primary unless bull busts straight down.
- GREEN: If he cuts down immediately (improbable because he would try to keep wind to his advantage?) then the original caller will need to bring him back on course. If the bull continues down, both will have to call and see who gets lucky. Teamwork and knowing each other will be crucial to weave a storyline for mr stinky. Shooter would call once stinky reaches the blue line area.
- BLUE: Hopefully he continues on top path. Either path he takes after that then the grunt would be about at the X or just before. Deep in callers comfortable shot range, 50yrd MAX? We are all hunting bow right?... Hopefully the bull will at worst stop and look back, at best maybe turn and provide a broadside to qtr away so caller can draw while the bull is distracted and thread the needle. :archery_smiley:
Post by: hntrspud on July 28, 2014, 08:20:14 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on July 28, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
Post by: elk247 on July 28, 2014, 08:37:28 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 28, 2014, 09:09:10 PM
OK, moving on. How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup? In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling. Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on?
Post by: elk247 on July 28, 2014, 10:20:18 PM
Post by: lamrith on July 29, 2014, 06:00:30 AM
Thanks elk247. Only a handfull of weeks left till we're all out there, and make no mistake, the bug has hit me as much as my Hunt WA brothers/sisters ;). Lamrith, I'm with you brother and like your thinking on your last post. I'm not familiar with the decoy you mentioned? Is it something realtively easy to pack (more than conveniently collapsible) and pack with you as you move through the elk woods between setups? Is there perhaps something better a guy could use when running/gunning using cold calling setups? Just asking as I know what I have in my elk tool bag for this fall.
OK, moving on. How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup? In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling. Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on?
The decoy mentioned is one of the fabric ones with flexible rods on the outside. Twist and tuck and it folds up, there is a fold up video on the cabelas site: Montana Miss September Feeding Cow Elk Decoy (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Decoys/Big-Game-Decoys|/pc/104791680/c/104714280/sc/104213880/Montana-Miss-September-Feeding-Cow-Elk-Decoy/727298.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FBig-Game-Decoys%2F104213880.uts%3FWT.srch%3D1%26WT.tsrc%3DPPC%26rid%3D20%26WT.mc_id%3DGOOGLE|Hun_Big%2BGame_Confidence%2BDecoys_Montana%2BCow|USA%26WT.z_mc_id1%3D43700005049503654%26gclid%3DCjwKEAjwjN2eBRDbyPWl0JLY5lYSJACPo0Ui-uQ0u4yh_LHbtNJumltL9Bz8IxnZJLMi-hmMKcWSkBoC52vw_wcB%26gclsrc%3Daw.ds&WTz_l=PPC%3Bcat104213880)
They do cost some weight, but are pretty thin in storage format. Nate Simmons is a bigtime High country extreme solo bow hunter just used one on last episode to call in a nice bull, and keep it's attention. If he was willing to pack the weight on a deep back-country hunt that really says allot about the utility of having one along.
I think I know what one you are talking about and it looks very interesting for sure. http://www.poisonarrowgear.com (http://www.poisonarrowgear.com) I debated that for this scenario, but the concern would be if the shooter had that up from the start then the bull would get fixated and Hang. May not be able to be brought all the way into the ambush point and likely never get to the caller as a backup shooting option. I would rather suck him all the way in and get him between the two people, if he does not totally bust them but spooks, some cow calls might give him pause with one of the pair in position to take a shot still unless he busts straight down and out low left. It would be usefull for both parties to have them though. Maybe the caller have his deployed from the start as further bait. The Shooter if time allowed could deploy his before he makes his stop grunt which will give the bull something to look at.
As for time to move on.. Hard to say, I have heard of guys using other calls like crow, so as not to foul up any elk talk that is already out there, but that again is more to pack along. The real key is having the plan and communication program set-up before you separate. Scouting makes a good time to practice these comms skills if the pair scouts together as well.
Post by: elkmtngear on July 29, 2014, 07:46:36 AM
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There is another option. The SLIP System provides the full size decoy, with an umbrella-type frame that is more effective in windy conditions, and allows the user to move ahead and quickly stake the unit into the ground. Stretchable Slipcovers allow the hunter to change the presentation (for example camo, elk butt, elk profile) according to his needs, so it can be used for hunting multiple game species.
This unit also will provide shelter in a storm, and folds up into a very durable trekking pole. If walking with the unit, it can be deployed nearly instantly.
Here is a demo I created specifically for elk hunting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4hElifR9E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4hElifR9E)
We are HWF Sponsors, and discount coupons are available if you send me a PM.
Post by: elk247 on July 29, 2014, 10:01:48 AM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 29, 2014, 10:07:11 AM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 29, 2014, 10:46:30 AM
OK, moving on. How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup? In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling. Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on?
Lamrith quote: "As for time to move on.. Hard to say, I have heard of guys using other calls like crow, so as not to foul up any elk talk that is already out there, but that again is more to pack along. The real key is having the plan and communication program set-up before you separate. Scouting makes a good time to practice these comms skills if the pair scouts together as well."
Yes sir, it's very important for caller/shooter to be practiced on how to communicate without being in line of sight of each other (and certainly, both of them relatively proficient with their calling). Here's a typical partner situation where both are on the same sheet. This is after you've been at your cold call location for what you feel is long enough (20 minutes up to an hour) and have completed several calling sequences with no luck; as the primary caller, you feel nobody is home and call to your partner to see if they are ready to move on. Caller gives three short cow sounds (mew, mew, mew); obviously, this is not done in conjunction with the normal rhythm of your cold calls to avoid confusion. Partner responds with (mew, mew, mew)... yep, partner agrees that nobody wants to play and it's time to move on. Move towards each other and off you go. Now, what happens if the shooter does not respond? This signals the caller that their may be elk afoot that he hasn't seen/heard and it's time to continue this setup with some additional calling. Differerent hunters have their methods for communicating when it's time to move on, that's just the way I normally do it. I'd be interested to hear how other hunters work the "hey, are you ready to move" action.