Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 06:47:09 PM

Title: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 06:47:09 PM: at the range right now by myself with my new wolf. first time shooting a muzzleloader. pyrodex powder 100 grains, great plains 385 gr, RWS caps. should there be a slight delay between the cap going off and the shot fired?
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Mark Brenckle on August 15, 2014, 06:55:43 PM: Shot ours for the 1st time a few weeks ago, people have asked about a delay but honestly I didn't notice any delay at all. We have a Knight disc extreme and an ultra light.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Timberstalker on August 15, 2014, 07:33:49 PM: When the hammer drops that gun should go off. No noticeable delay. Something's askew. Take it apart , clean it and re-try.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 07:38:47 PM: Gonna call it a night. Groups are all over the place still has a bad hang fire been cleaning nipple and barrel after each shot. :bash: Just gonna start over tomorrow
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Mark Brenckle on August 15, 2014, 07:44:29 PM: Not sure about the hang-fire but that's probably the reason for being all over the target. Make sure your caps are tight on the nipple and there's nothing clogged up. We were shooting 2 or 3 before cleaning. Was everything good and dry?
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 07:50:32 PM: Ya everything was dry. Those great plains were super hard starting also. :dunno:
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: tjthebest on August 15, 2014, 08:03:35 PM: When I put the powder in I tap the Butt of the gun on the ground to try and settle the powder. Then just push the bullet down nice and snug. Are you Making sure everything is completely dry after cleaning? No left over oil/residue in the nipple or breach?
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 15, 2014, 08:04:29 PM: Hammer fall-gun go boom. Something's wrong if that's not what happens. :twocents:
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Sabotloader on August 15, 2014, 08:13:40 PM: Quote from: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
at the range right now by myself with my new wolf. first time shooting a muzzleloader. pyrodex powder 100 grains, great plains 385 gr, RWS caps. should there be a slight delay between the cap going off and the shot fired?

Absolutely not...
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: bobcat on August 15, 2014, 08:14:45 PM: How big of a delay are we talking? A muzzleloader will always be slightly slower in ignition than a modern rifle. You might not always notice it, but I think it's pretty normal. Maybe more so for a sidelock than an inline.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 08:17:06 PM: I was using Windex and a q-tip to clean the nipple after each shot so there might have been a little moisture
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 15, 2014, 08:24:49 PM: Quote from: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 08:17:06 PM
I was using Windex and a q-tip to clean the nipple after each shot so there might have been a little moisture

Stop doing that! No need. It's doing more harm than good...
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: barracuda163 on August 15, 2014, 08:30:30 PM: Should be able to shoot at least half dozen rounds before things get gummed up. I've shot a couple dozen just to see if I could. Knight bighorn, pyrodex pellets, rws musket caps.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Soady on August 15, 2014, 09:45:22 PM: Quote from: grousefether on August 15, 2014, 08:17:06 PM
I was using Windex and a q-tip to clean the nipple after each shot so there might have been a little moisture
Forget the Q-tip routine you are getting to much moisture on the nipple and delaying the cap spark. When swabbing with a patch squeeze the excess moisture out of the patch and use it twice for the next shot after flipping it to the other side. You are getting everything too wet thus the delay or hang fire. Use a nipple pick after a miss fire and keep the ignition dry.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: Sabotloader on August 16, 2014, 01:56:28 PM: grousefether

Making your own pre-moistened patches...

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FWinPatch.jpg&hash=4c2a517d56eef6ed628baa068de5faef57d93973) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/WinPatch.jpg.html)
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: LDennis24 on August 16, 2014, 03:13:26 PM: Are you using no.11 caps? 1047 or whatever they are? Only use magnum no.11 caps and don't clean your barrel for 2-3 shot's. I never use any wet cleaner on my nipple when actively shooting. Just pick it clean or replace it with a spare while you soak the other one. Always have a spare! I carry 2 no.11 nipples, one is bored out a little more than the other, and I carry a musket nipple as well. What F rating is the powder? FWIW I don't use Pyrodex pellet's because they don't burn as well as free flowing powder in my opinion. I use pre-measured powder and really it doesn't take any longer to load than pellet's with a little practice and experience. I never use bore butter unless it's already on the bullet. Maxi-balls come to mind. I use sabot's and I keep a small amount of 4F powder for misfires and put a little dab in before I replace the nipple if I can't get the gun to fire. Pretty much work's every time. Never buy CCI primer's!
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: LDennis24 on August 16, 2014, 03:19:28 PM: I meant 1075 caps from RWS. I've always had good luck with Remington Magnum no.11 caps as well.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 17, 2014, 10:29:13 AM: Yeah RWS 1075. Ill be chasin brrr after work all week :IBCOOL: so next weekend im gonna try again without the q tip routine. These muzzloaders are about as finicky as a bow. Everything has to be right. Also im using pyrodex rs.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: d.winsor on August 17, 2014, 10:48:31 AM: I don't think muzzleloaders are that finicky, something is going on with your setup. Did you run a nipple pick thru your nipple as suggested, I would think that your gun and are nipple is new, but I had my .54 renegade after years of shooting all of a sudden messing up like that when firing. I looked thru the nipple and there was an oblong flash hole. I replaced the nipple and the problem was gone. Try replacing the nipple, maybe you have a bad one, maybe the hole is too big or off in some way.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: ctwiggs1 on August 19, 2014, 08:10:31 AM: I had the same problem with my Bighorn.

I switched to loose powder and didn't have any more problems after that. It's super simple and worth trying.

I wouldn't worry about your groups right now. You're all over the map because of the delay. You'd have to have ice veins to be able to hold steady with that kind of delay.

Curtis
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: CP on August 19, 2014, 08:49:34 AM: There should be no perceptible delay.

With 100g of powder and a 385gr great plains I’m guessing that you have a bit of a flinch going on. Any flinch combined with a delay = a messy group.

After you clean, run a clean dry patch down the barrel, leave it there and pop a cap into the dry patch. Remove the patch and load the rifle.

Popping the cap will dry out any moisture and the patch will prevent the cap from fouling the barrel.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: grousefether on August 19, 2014, 09:11:28 AM: Quote from: CP on August 19, 2014, 08:49:34 AM
There should be no perceptible delay.

With 100g of powder and a 385gr great plains I’m guessing that you have a bit of a flinch going on. Any flinch combined with a delay = a messy group.

After you clean, run a clean dry patch down the barrel, leave it there and pop a cap into the dry patch. Remove the patch and load the rifle.

Popping the cap will dry out any moisture and the patch will prevent the cap from fouling the barrel.
that's a good idea. Anybody have any opinions on those great plains 385's im sure they hit like a train but should I have high expectations as far as accuracy
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: dscubame on August 19, 2014, 09:22:35 AM: As others have stated, try different caps. I had the same issue and once I found what cap the rifle liked the problem was solved. One item in the troubleshooting list to try anyway.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: hooker on August 19, 2014, 06:48:44 PM: Quote from: grousefether on August 19, 2014, 09:11:28 AM
Quote from: CP on August 19, 2014, 08:49:34 AM
There should be no perceptible delay.

With 100g of powder and a 385gr great plains I’m guessing that you have a bit of a flinch going on. Any flinch combined with a delay = a messy group.

After you clean, run a clean dry patch down the barrel, leave it there and pop a cap into the dry patch. Remove the patch and load the rifle.

Popping the cap will dry out any moisture and the patch will prevent the cap from fouling the barrel.
that's a good idea. Anybody have any opinions on those great plains 385's im sure they hit like a train but should I have high expectations as far as accuracy

Find a different bullet that loads easier. Power belts load easy in everything I've owned and in my Thompson I'll easily get 8-9 shots before use a spit patch.

If you must use a windex patch make sure you follow with a dry patch and then fire a #11 or Musket cap with NO powder or bullet to get rid of any moisture...
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: hooker on August 19, 2014, 06:53:15 PM: I used to shoot the 385 great plains bullets but that was in rifles with like a 1 in 48 twist. They were Accurate but why bother? Waxy mess shoved down your barrel, hard to load even after multiple shots.

I use a Peep sight on my front stuffers. I cant hit a pie plate with a peep sight at 100yds. Easily shoot 3" or less groups at a 100yd with a peepsight.
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: CP on August 20, 2014, 06:50:48 AM: Here's a couple 3 shot groups:
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: oneshot12 on August 21, 2014, 03:15:33 PM: not bad shooting
Title: Re: noob at the range right now gettin frustrated
Post by: lucky7 on August 23, 2014, 10:01:06 PM: Once you get the ignition problem rectified, I would suggest getting some .490 round balls and some pre-lubed .11 patches and go to the range and run at least 40 rounds through it to season the barrel. The above ball and patch are for a .50 cal if that is what your shootin. I will probably open a can of worms about seasoning newer in-line smoke poles, but my son and I did it with our stainless Bighorns and it settled them out. After seasoning, clean and re-assemble, and fire for effect with what you will hunt with. I would replace nipples or at least check for elongation. Do not put any oil in that barrel. Are you using to much breech plug grease? Like the other guy said, after cleaning put a patch on your ramrod and run it all the way in, back it up an inch and bust a couple caps in it after cleaning. Have fun!!!!