Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 18, 2014, 10:22:52 AM
I have been pretty dissatisfied with some of their practices of recommending/replacing parts that are not necessary (while we're in there type stuff), their insane (IMO) markup on parts and fluids, and their seeming readiness to skirt the ethics of repair/replacement in the face of their customers' ignorance (not mine - based on observations with wife and overhearing interactions with other customers).
First off, I get it. It's a business whose purpose is to make money. And I don't even mind paying a premium for expert diagnostic and service done right the first time, which is not at issue here. That aside, here are some things I am wondering about:
1.) How do such shops procure parts? Do they pay retail (I don't think so), or do they pay wholesale? What is a typical percentage difference from wholesale and what you would pay for the same part at a parts store (not dealer parts)? Do such chain shops typically have a warehouse that they store the parts in climate-controlled conditions, resting on gold-plated shelves, bathed in 24-hour soothing music?
2.) Is it typical practice to recommend/replace parts that are not defective solely for the reason that you are already in the system and there would be no added labor costs? Think idler pulley.
3.) What are reasonable parts mark up rates on shop provided parts? 20/50/100/150/200/300%? I tend to think 20% over retail is excessive, but I have no basis for comparison other than retail.
Here are some data points.
Part/Shop Quote/Retail/Percentage of Retail
New AC Compressor/$650/$470/138%
AC Dryer/$114/$27/422%
AC idler pulley/$76/$38/200%
Ujoint/$95/$33/288%
And the retail prices above are not for the bottom of the barrel parts (think Dana/Spicer ujoint; think retail for new parts pricing).
4.) Do you have any recommendations for reasonable and honest repair shops in S. King or N. Pierce counties?
5.) What is a fair labor hourly rate to expect for a job well done? I am not looking to starve anybody, here. But I don't want to have to walk away from the shop all funny either.
Thanks.
Post by: b23 on August 18, 2014, 02:12:55 PM
I've been lucky, one of my best buddies from high school is a cert. mechanic and he has saved me and my family a lot of $$$$$ over the last 28yrs.
I wouldn't have a clue where to go on the wet side of the Mtns. but maybe there I someone on this site that owns a shop or can help you find someone.
Best of luck to you though.
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 07:07:40 AM
Post by: whacker1 on August 20, 2014, 07:22:55 AM
I can tell you that guys that have mechanics that do side work often get a sloppy rushed job , most mechanics don't understand the business side of things and by the time there done with there week they are looking to get yours done as fast as possible. I own a shop in north Seattle and can tell you the over head in this business is crazy . I go by flat rate manuals and will often give a discount on multiple jobs at the same time like front end or service work . it saves the costumer time and money and saves me the time to create another visit and paper work process. it drives me nuts to see shops double dipping on labor and gives mechanic a bad rap. I also recommend a shop that knows your type of vehicle , often you will pay 2-3 times more labor for a guy to diagnose and repair your car while he learns . I see this all the time with drivability problems and electrical. as far as parts on factory parts I charge suggested list price that way when ever you get checked on price your not a bad guy, I see dealerships and production shops charge 10% or more over list price and I just don't get it(list should be list on factory parts)and I have seen dealerships change the list prices to different shops this is BS. on parts from the aftermarket most reputable shops will use a matrix scale and most data systems have it built in . the lower cost parts have a higher mark up and the more the part costs the scale slides down for instance if I buy a part for $5.00 wholesale it will list for $10.00 if I buy a part for $2000.00 it will list for $2400.00. of course older folks and students or people down on there luck often get a break because I'm still human. always try to get the best parts you can for the money and don't get to hung up on the bottom line say if a shop charges $100 per hour and does good work charges you and hour and the hack down the street charges you 70 per hour and bills you for two hours witch is the better deal ? I don't know to many guys in your neck of the woods but I suggest that you give Seattle automotive Dist a call and ask for ted or paul . they can give you a recommendation for a good shop in your area.1 (800)932-3500 will get you to there warehouse. good luck.
Yes, many people don't understand the cost of doing business and where all the overhead comes from
- Insurance
- Rent
- health insurance
- payroll
- payroll taxes
- heat/Power
- water/sewer
- garbage
- oil/grease disposal
- taxes
- equipment updating/maintenance costs
- training
These are just a tip of the ice berg when it comes to operational costs, but I couldn't say it any better than coach. Finding a mechanic/or shop that you trust is a method of trial and error. I found two in spokane that worked for a large franchise shop. When the owner closed the franchise, they bought the equipment and leased a space a mile a way and opened their own shop. We have an ongoing relationship and they take very good care of me, but they also know that they get all my work unless i break down out of town.
Post by: scottcrb on August 20, 2014, 07:52:16 AM
Post by: rtspring on August 20, 2014, 07:57:34 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 20, 2014, 09:12:01 AM
It just irks me that the shop in the OP seems to charge these markup rates over cost of RETAIL aftermarket parts, not WHOLESALE, and I suspect the guy is not being upfront about them paying retail for these parts. I don't mind paying a reasonable rate for quality service and parts, but I don't like being lied to cover the fact that you may be charging excessive markup to cover your non-market-competive overhead.
N Seattle is a bit far for me, but it might work for the wife who works in Seattle. Please do list the name of your shop or PM me and Scott the information if you don't want to list it here.
I received a recommendation for Greg's Auto in Tacoma (253.535.5035). Anyone have any thing pro or con to say about their experiences with them?
As another aside, if you have a Subaru that needs work, there is a guy 'roundabout Colville, who goes by the name Subaru Guru. We had him do head gaskets for less than half the cost of what the shop in the OP quoted. I would take the wife's car back in a heartbeat, and the FIL uses him all the time. I don't have any contact info for him, but I could probably get it if anyone is interested.
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 09:49:49 AM
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 10:01:31 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 10:03:18 AM
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 10:11:47 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
Post by: jackelope on August 20, 2014, 11:30:32 AM
Disclaimer...I'm at a domestic shop and do very few timing belt jobs so my example may not be totally accurate, but you get the idea.
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 11:32:46 AM
That is exactly how I sell timing belt jobs.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 20, 2014, 11:48:03 AM
I can't add anything that Coach didn't already say except for the part about adding other parts because you're already there. I'd use the timing belt job as a good example. While you're in there replacing the timing belt, let's replace the tensioner and the idler and the cam seals for example. My reasoning for this is as follows...if you're already in there doing all the labor, why wouldn't you spend a few more bucks on those parts while it's apart? 6 months from now if that tensioner breaks, throws the timing belt, valves smack pistons and ruins your engine, you're an owner. If the cam seals start leaking oil, you do all the labor again to fix it 6 months from now...There is no warranty on anything. Why not have that added insurance?
Disclaimer...I'm at a domestic shop and do very few timing belt jobs so my example may not be totally accurate, but you get the idea.
Agreed in this context. I have, myself, had a water pump replaced when doing the timing belt, even when it was working fine. I think the justification is sound in the abstract. In application, I get the sense the shop in the OP abuses the philosophy and their parts markup a bit indiscriminately and always in the shop's favor, if that makes sense.
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 12:11:09 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 20, 2014, 12:39:36 PM
I would just say that if you have a question on something like that just send a pm to one of the shop guys on here. I have been service writing for a day or 2. I am happy to answer any questions I can based on what I do here.
Ditto. Happy to help, I have access to labor time guides, etc and if there's ever a question just ask. If it's any consolation, I haven't seen shops sell parts at MSRP price in a while. Matrix is the new way.
Post by: h20hunter on August 20, 2014, 12:45:58 PM
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 01:29:47 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 20, 2014, 02:16:13 PM
As those boys said timing belt jobs are a full meal for me , I'm not willing to hang my rep on a job that doesn't get the full kit , they only make sense. as well as wear items on jobs like ls lifter guides. the other thing I always do is head gaskets in pairs we never do one side . the other area where I do the while your at it is when i'm in a transmission as far as shift solenoids and pwm solenoids
A lot of things like that make sense. Sometimes it doesn't and that's what you've got to be on the watch for.
Coach is in the pits doing this stuff too, I'm just a desk jockey.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 20, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
Post by: Johnb317 on August 20, 2014, 02:27:32 PM
Coil pack for Lexus....
Lexus dealership. 120.00
Toyota dealership. 85.00
Same part number.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 20, 2014, 02:29:39 PM
My shop Is called Automotive Inc. 931 N . 96th Seattle 98103 (206)522-6100 Corey . With this raffle tag you may not see me many Mondays and Fridays , but I should be working late into the night every other day. Feel free to give me a call , if you guys have any questions or need referral's in the north end . often it's better to know who not to go to .
Are you near 85th and Aurora by chance ? I have a friend who used to own a shop on 85th ish and he was from Thailand. He went by the name ' Mike " but his real name was Krit Muangjinda. Does that ring a bell ?
Post by: jackelope on August 20, 2014, 02:36:27 PM
Pricing parts is interesting too:
Coil pack for Lexus....
Lexus dealership. 120.00
Toyota dealership. 85.00
Same part number.
I guarantee you you'd get 2 different prices at 2 different Toyota dealers too.
Post by: h20hunter on August 20, 2014, 02:39:05 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on August 20, 2014, 02:39:52 PM
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 02:49:05 PM
Yeah i'm on 96th. was your buddys place mikes Japanese auto? if so he was a good guy. I'm pretty sure I've helped him on some caddy stuff.My shop Is called Automotive Inc. 931 N . 96th Seattle 98103 (206)522-6100 Corey . With this raffle tag you may not see me many Mondays and Fridays , but I should be working late into the night every other day. Feel free to give me a call , if you guys have any questions or need referral's in the north end . often it's better to know who not to go to .
Are you near 85th and Aurora by chance ? I have a friend who used to own a shop on 85th ish and he was from Thailand. He went by the name ' Mike " but his real name was Krit Muangjinda. Does that ring a bell ?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 20, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Yeah i'm on 96th. was your buddys place mikes Japanese auto? if so he was a good guy. I'm pretty sure I've helped him on some caddy stuff.My shop Is called Automotive Inc. 931 N . 96th Seattle 98103 (206)522-6100 Corey . With this raffle tag you may not see me many Mondays and Fridays , but I should be working late into the night every other day. Feel free to give me a call , if you guys have any questions or need referral's in the north end . often it's better to know who not to go to .
Are you near 85th and Aurora by chance ? I have a friend who used to own a shop on 85th ish and he was from Thailand. He went by the name ' Mike " but his real name was Krit Muangjinda. Does that ring a bell ?
Yes it was. Is his still there ? I haven't seen him since the late 70's.
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 04:06:34 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 20, 2014, 04:28:26 PM
yes I believe he is . I haven't seen him for a few months.
If you see him, tell him, Steve, from High School says hi. Just tell him the guy that lived next to the " Weldings ". He'll know............Thanks
Post by: Buckmark on August 20, 2014, 04:34:58 PM
You could post up one with all identifying information removed or fax/email one to say me..
*
Something good like a t-belt service or mileage service etc...
If you have a recent estimate that you would like a comparable estimate i would be glad to do that also, ie: like a timing belt service,
Post by: runamuk on August 20, 2014, 04:46:01 PM
and 85th and Aurora was my high school days hangout ..well actually a basement a couple blocks up 85th off Aurora. Beer drinking, football watching, and fixing cars.... :)
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 04:46:37 PM
will doyes I believe he is . I haven't seen him for a few months.
If you see him, tell him, Steve, from High School says hi. Just tell him the guy that lived next to the " Weldings ". He'll know............Thanks
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2014, 04:51:48 PM
Post by: runamuk on August 20, 2014, 04:57:26 PM
I just wish I had been better informed on the inner workings of my clutch....my guy now would have said do master and slave and all the rest... he got to do cleanup on aisle 6 when about 6 months down the road the unreplaced slave went titsup :bash: :bash:
Post by: gunrinwa on September 16, 2014, 04:40:45 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on September 16, 2014, 07:17:04 PM