Post by: kbrowne14 on August 27, 2014, 10:44:29 PM
I have yet to shoot the thing. I just purchased a scope base yesterday. I should have a Nightforce 1 piece 20 moa rail coming on tuesday. After that, I will put my father in laws Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24 scope on it so I can start shooting and getting a load made. I am going to put a Vortex Viper PST 4-16 ffp Mrad, but I have a work a few overtimes to get it. I will try and give some range reports on the rifle. My father in law has a Sendero in 300 win mag so I am going to start at or below his load and see where I am at and then go from there. I'll be shooting 200 gr. Accubonds.
Post by: fish-on37 on August 27, 2014, 11:34:48 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on August 28, 2014, 05:39:22 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on August 28, 2014, 09:17:08 AM
Post by: kbrowne14 on August 28, 2014, 05:55:13 PM
I do want to do a 20 moa rail. There will be times that I have the opportunity to shoot further than 1100 yards. I don't think I would ever consider shooting an animal that far, but steel definitely.
Post by: kbrowne14 on September 02, 2014, 11:22:23 PM
I loaded some rounds for it a few days ago. I also attempted to measure the distance to the rifling in the bore. I took a fired case a put a 200 grain accubond in the mouth and slowly chambered the cartridge. I did this about 15 times until I started getting the exact same number within about .005 inches about 5 times. That length to the end of the Accubond was 3.560 inches. My load will be as follows.
200 Gr. Accubond,
77 gr. H1000,
CCI mag rifle primers,
lake city Brass
seated to 3.510.
This is the exact load my father in law uses in his 300 win mag Sendero which is essentially the same gun. This is a middle of the road load, it is not really low, nor is it really high. I estimated the load at being around 2900 fps because that is what his is shooting.
I will post some more pictures when I am able to go shoot the gun. I will give a range report, however, this will be mostly a break in type of day, but we will see what the groups look like. I don't expect much yet. I will keep it updated the best I can with range reports, and pictures to go along with it.
Post by: ELKBURGER on September 03, 2014, 06:18:41 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 04, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on September 04, 2014, 05:05:20 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on September 28, 2014, 09:40:33 PM
So I did a light break in of the rifle, I started out shooting 10 rounds and cleaning in between each round. After the first 10, I cleaned every 3 rounds until I was done shooting, 25 rounds. My load as mentioned earlier in the thread was 200 gr. Accubond, 77 grains H1000, loaded to about 3.510. The first thing I noticed was how brutal it was to shoot. It kicked hard and the trigger had to be muscled. I had a lot of trouble holding groups, granted I wasn't that worried about it because I was breaking in the gun. I was pretty much all over the target. My average groups were around 1.5 to 2 inches during the break in, with the occasional sub moa group.
After the first day of shooting, I wasn't so sure. I absolutely hate the trigger, it is a solid 6-7 lb pull, not 3.5 as advertised. The set screw on the XMP trigger sticks out when you try to dial down the pull weight, and I can feel it on my finger when I shoot. Also, I noticed some pressure signs on my case head. I could see the ejector stamp, a slight extractor mark, and a slightly flattened primer.
Shooting day #2
I dropped my load down a little bit to 76.5 grains H1000. I went back to Kenmore. This time I didn't do any cleaning, I just shot. Again, the gun was all over the place, 1.5 inch groups average for the first 15 rounds. But the gun started to really settle down after that, I was able to get numerous groups in the 5/8-3/4 inch range. I don't think I was doing anything different for the last 15 rounds, so I think the gun is starting to settle down. I will continue to tweak the load further as I think I can get better accuracy out of it. But this is all very preliminary and is not an end all range report of the capabilities of this gun. I have a lot more shooting to do. But this is very promising because I haven't even really begun to develop a load, I just rushed this load to get shooting before hunting season. I will shoot a couple more times before the season starts.
I was also able to get my hands on a Magneto Speed Chrony. My 6 shot string was pretty consistent, within 30 fps. My average speed was 2840 fps with no present pressure signs.
Right off the bat, this gun absolutely needs muzzle brake to tame this recoil. Shooting off the benches at Kenmore gun range, you have to sit off to the side of the gun and you can't get right behind it, so the recoil can kind of turn your body a bit. It is not an optimal shooting position. The XMP trigger from the factory is terrible. The pull is so heavy I could not even figure out when the gun would go off, which obviously effects accuracy greatly. A trigger alone would make this gun shootable.
I think I am going to love this gun after a little bit of work to it, nothing major. A brake and a trigger job is all it needs.
Post by: ELKBURGER on September 29, 2014, 10:47:00 AM
I agree about the recoil. I took my .300 WM 700 out yesterday and still feel some soreness in my shoulder today. I plan on putting a brake, trigger and better optics someday when funds allow.
Good luck on dailing in your baby :tup:
Post by: b23 on September 29, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
I know a guy over on LRH dot com that could best be described as the 300 Win Mag whisperer. I think those 300 winnies very well could talk to him. His screen name is Broz and before he switched to a new toy, his 300win mag was nearly legendary. Not only did he take multiple animals with it but he loaned it out to friends and family and they all took their critters with it too. If you have any interest in stretching the legs out on your 300 Winnie, Broz would be an excellent resource for you because of the 20 or so animals in 2yrs his 300win took down, I think the closest shot was around 300ish yards and I believe most were in the 400-1000yds range, all were taken cleanly using 215 Bergers and I know he's a HUGE fan of H1000.
Post by: ELKBURGER on September 30, 2014, 07:57:28 AM
First off, very nice looking rifle, you had me at Remington 700. :tup:Thanks for the info :tup:
I know a guy over on LRH dot com that could best be described as the 300 Win Mag whisperer. I think those 300 winnies very well could talk to him. His screen name is Broz and before he switched to a new toy, his 300win mag was nearly legendary. Not only did he take multiple animals with it but he loaned it out to friends and family and they all took their critters with it too. If you have any interest in stretching the legs out on your 300 Winnie, Broz would be an excellent resource for you because of the 20 or so animals in 2yrs his 300win took down, I think the closest shot was around 300ish yards and I believe most were in the 400-1000yds range, all were taken cleanly using 215 Bergers and I know he's a HUGE fan of H1000.
Post by: Blacklab on October 01, 2014, 06:37:43 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 01, 2014, 06:16:35 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on October 08, 2014, 02:47:30 PM
So anyways, I took it out to a 500 yard steel target I had in the woods. When I shot at it, my calculator was saying it should be 9 moa of elevation adjustment, I was off target by quite a bit. Maybe 6 or 7 inches. So I began to adjust down, I came down to 8.0 moa and i was dead on. I had a 14 x 16" steel target with a 6 inch swinging circle in the center of it. I was able to hit this circle repeatedly, and I was able to hit the target the whole target easily. I do not if I was more stable at this target because it was a different shooting area and I may have had a better position, but I was able to see my target impact most of the time. I was also very consistent on hitting the target. I did a velocity adjustment on my bullet because I was hitting high at 500 yards, do you guys think it is possible to have a magneto speed, be off by over 100 fps? The magneto speed was reading an average of 2840 from that load but my ballistics were behaving as though the bullet was traveling 2970. Do you think the difference is due to the velocity, or do you think my zero was high initially by 1 moa?
Post by: b23 on October 08, 2014, 03:49:08 PM
I won't say your Magnetospeed is infallible but I'd probably lean more toward the information you're giving your ballistics calculator is off not the FPS you're plugging into it.
Post by: coop2424 on October 08, 2014, 04:01:16 PM
Post by: b23 on October 08, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
Good idea coop2424.
Post by: kbrowne14 on October 08, 2014, 09:42:42 PM
I think I have determined what went wrong. When I began chasing my zero, I didn't see that I was trending high. So when I went to shoot the 500 yard target and got into a better shooting position, I stopped chasing and became more consistent. My App said 9 MOA up at 500 yards. When I shot, I missed high by quite a bit. So I slowly dialed back until I hit 8 MOA which seemed to be the right dope for 500. I adjusted my velocity in the app and kept shooting. I cam home, and started thinking and did some research on Magneto speeds. This was not my chrony, I borrowed it from a guy that said it always worked perfect for him for long range competitions. They don't vary that much. Not 130 FPS. So I began to think about my zero and determined that I was trending high, along with my Father in laws shots being high. I brought my speed back down, and adjusted my zero height in my app from 0 to 1". Which appears to be about how high the shots were trending, outside my thrown shots. It then gave me the exact same 8 MOA dope that I had at 500 yards. So, for hunting season, this is as good as its going to get. I think I am pretty much dead on at this point, I don't see any other reason for my shots to be an MOA high.
Post by: jaymark6655 on October 09, 2014, 07:19:12 AM
Also sometimes preloading the bipod can cause the stock to twist which would open up groups size. I was getting over 3MOA on a 700 with the cheap plastic stocks until I switched. I can still twist the solid stock I have now so I make sure not to preload too much or use a level on the scope to make sure I am not twisting. The rifle not being held level will only be magnified at longer ranges.
Post by: kbrowne14 on October 09, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on October 16, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Post by: longrangekiller on November 04, 2014, 02:23:58 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on November 04, 2014, 02:57:38 PM
Post by: Bofire on November 04, 2014, 03:36:10 PM
Carl
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 02, 2015, 07:34:38 PM
I replaced the trigger with a Timney 510 and set it to 2.5 lbs. That really seemed to help. I am saving for a muzzle brake at the moment. I really think this gun will group nicely once I can keep the muzzle under control. But for all you guys "thinking about picking one up," know that the recoil on 300wm is pretty significant, not that it hurts, but it causes the gun to move around to much and messes with your follow through. When I pull the trigger, no matter what I do, I come off my target a bit with the recoil, and more importantly, I come of my target differently every time.
I will say, that at least for my gun, I have not been able to say that this gun is an accurate gun. However, I watched my father in law shoot a Sendero in 300wm, and had the same problem. He put a trigger and brake on it, and he was sub moa all day long, same load, same everything, just a trigger job and brake.
I am not giving up on the gun yet, but I am not going to shoot it again until I put a brake on it, waste of time and ammo. I'm trying to give whoever is reading this as complete and unbiased review as I can. I will update again, after i get a brake.
Post by: jackelope on April 02, 2015, 07:40:07 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 02, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Post by: coop2424 on April 02, 2015, 08:24:00 PM
Post by: iusmc2002 on April 02, 2015, 08:25:38 PM
If YOU are getting worse results than someone else firing the same rifle/load, I would say your fundamentals are going down the toilet because of felt recoil, and possibly the anticipation of the coming kick. With my current rifle, if I have my stuff wired tight, my rifle recoils right, and up. If I mess my fundamentals up at all, the rifle is recoiling wherever it feels like going.
Personally, I'm ready for something different, so I have a 280 Rem barrel enroute. I'll put another QD brake on that, and should be able to bore myself with shooting before I start screwing up my fundies because of recoil.
Good luck, have fun
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 02, 2015, 08:41:59 PM
Basically line up on target and close your eyes then take a breath and let out and then open your eyes. If you arent on target you are forcing tension into your set up somewhere. Readjust and try again. This ensures your body and head is naturally pointed where the target is.
Another thing you could try to check for flinch is to have your buddy load (or not load) your rifle. You just set up behind it and switch safety off and you dont know if there is actually a round in the gun and shoot. This will show a flinch if one exists.
Post by: mountainman on April 02, 2015, 09:29:42 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 02, 2015, 10:02:13 PM
When you shoot are you getting a natural point of aim at the target? With my 375 i really need to be good with natural point of aim or i dont shoot real consistently.great advise
Basically line up on target and close your eyes then take a breath and let out and then open your eyes. If you arent on target you are forcing tension into your set up somewhere. Readjust and try again. This ensures your body and head is naturally pointed where the target is.
Another thing you could try to check for flinch is to have your buddy load (or not load) your rifle. You just set up behind it and switch safety off and you dont know if there is actually a round in the gun and shoot. This will show a flinch if one exists.
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 02, 2015, 10:28:53 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 02, 2015, 10:36:06 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 02, 2015, 10:54:23 PM
Post by: rudysts on April 03, 2015, 06:21:23 AM
1 Jewell $250.00 1 year warranty
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/remington-700-40x-win-m70-rifle-triggers-prod27104.aspx?avs (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/remington-700-40x-win-m70-rifle-triggers-prod27104.aspx?avs)|Manufacturer_1=JEWELL TRIGGERS, INCxzzx
2 Timney trigger $109.00 lifetime warranty
http://www.swpcustom.com/timney510.html (http://www.swpcustom.com/timney510.html)
3 Changing out the spring on you factory trigger $6.95 it only takes a few minutes directions come with the spring. trigger pull will be 2.5#-3#
http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i181.html (http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i181.html)
I have done all three and I prefer timney because of the warranty I have used it and they are fast to repair or replace.
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 03, 2015, 04:10:22 PM
Apparently I am getting some resistance to the idea that heavy recoil can amplify mistakes, not cause mistakes, but amplify.
This is an example of the recoil. I have my bipod loaded and its tight on my shoulder. This video slows it down a lot.
remington 700 LR recoil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-jrwHdPDo#ws)
Post by: JJD on April 05, 2015, 10:02:13 AM
700 BDL, Leupold glass.
It does set ya back a bit when ya shoot it, but it's accurate. No sign of excessive pressure.
Where I don't have the heavy barrel, I have to take my time messing with loads as not to over heat it.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 05, 2015, 12:26:50 PM
Just curious
Post by: JJD on April 05, 2015, 12:45:34 PM
using a cheap Chrony. I figure it to be just under 3000, like 2940, something like that.
That being said, the bullet drop I am seeing out to 600 yds indicates that my velocity must be pretty close.
I also built a 30-338 some yrs ago and I may have the velocity figures between the 300 and the 30-338 confused. If so, I will repost when I get home from work.
Just remembered the load because I loaded up another 50 rds last thursday.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 05, 2015, 08:18:29 PM
Post by: JJD on April 06, 2015, 08:19:16 AM
Berger 210 VLD (not 215) 71.1 gr RE-22
You are spot on, Velocity was 2850. Your RUM should be about 100 fps faster as you figured.
I normally go by comparator figures, but measured my 300 WM COAL and its at 3.566.
It was my 30-338 with 185 VLD that was getting just under 3000 fps My bad.
Post by: Taco280AI on April 06, 2015, 08:55:41 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 06, 2015, 09:13:53 AM
Now assume for a minute that it is not a case of recoil shyness.
Have you given any thought that the scope may be bad? This is a borrowed, used scope correct?
Have you double checked all your mounting points to make sure nothing has worked loose?
Consider taking the bipod off and try shooting off a sand bag, thus removing the pre-load on the forearm.
And I believe someone else also mentioned backing off on the loads, go with a greatly reduced velocity and see if that changes any thing, less recoil, less blast, certainly could not hurt at this point.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 06, 2015, 12:50:36 PM
Why I should not rely on my memoryim really not pushing my rum hard with the 215s. Is why i was curious. I actually gained 50+ fps switching from 210 vld to 215 hybrid with same oal and powder charge.
Berger 210 VLD (not 215) 71.1 gr RE-22
You are spot on, Velocity was 2850. Your RUM should be about 100 fps faster as you figured.
I normally go by comparator figures, but measured my 300 WM COAL and its at 3.566.
It was my 30-338 with 185 VLD that was getting just under 3000 fps My bad.
Post by: Payne on April 06, 2015, 01:03:44 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 07, 2015, 11:29:41 AM
I shoot this rifle at Boomershoot in Idaho, where the shots are 375 - 700 yards and it is on target every shot.
Take the time and bed the stock and you will see the groups tighten up.
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 07, 2015, 08:44:17 PM
What works on my .308, doesn't work on my 300 wm. I will go back and check the rings and base though just so I can take those factors out of play. The scope is fine, it was used the day it was lended to me and was perfect, tracking, repeatability, everything was good. I am going try a bag though, I could be getting bounce from the bipod. I do know that I need to work on body position, I believe it is my position that is giving me the problems.
I'm actually in Wenatchee right now at designated marksmen course for the next 2 weeks, and have really been fine tuning my body positions and it has helped with consistency. I'm not shooting any better groups, the gun is lights out and is capable of sub .5 moa groups all the time (I'm not), it is, but I have far fewer "f-ed off" groups.
Post by: Bigshooter on April 07, 2015, 08:52:39 PM
I finally bought the Remington 700 LR in 300 Win Mag. I found one at West Coast Armory North in Everett. It had already been recalled, the trigger was set to a crisp 7 lb pull. My first impression was how nice it looks and how comfortable it feels. The trigger may need to be replaced or worked on if I can't adjust it down far enough. One thing I didn't notice until I brought it home was, When I lift the bolt you can see the piece on the rear of the bolt cock back, normal right? But If I don't bring the bolt back at all and just lower the bolt knob to lock the bolt down, the firing pin goes forward slowly. It won't stay cocked unless I bring the bolt backwards a little. I have heard of other remingtons doing this, some of them do it, some of them don't. I know for sure that they aren't supposed to do that, but I don't know what to do about it right now, it doesn't hinder the accuracy at all and I can't afford to fix it right now. Any Gunsmiths out there know what I am talking about? If so, how much to fix it? Other than that, the fit and finish is very nice, it really is a beautiful rifle. I think a muzzle brake is going to be necessary with how light it is. It weighs in at around 9.2 lbs
I have yet to shoot the thing. I just purchased a scope base yesterday. I should have a Nightforce 1 piece 20 moa rail coming on tuesday. After that, I will put my father in laws Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24 scope on it so I can start shooting and getting a load made. I am going to put a Vortex Viper PST 4-16 ffp Mrad, but I have a work a few overtimes to get it. I will try and give some range reports on the rifle. My father in law has a Sendero in 300 win mag so I am going to start at or below his load and see where I am at and then go from there. I'll be shooting 200 gr. Accubonds.
If it really has a 7lb trigger pull that is probably your problem.
Post by: Bango skank on April 07, 2015, 08:55:36 PM
I completely 100% agree, this is the shooters fault here. I have no quells about that's. The recoil doesn't hurt. I just think that since it is a heavy recoil rifle, every single one of my faults are amplified.
What works on my .308, doesn't work on my 300 wm. I will go back and check the rings and base though just so I can take those factors out of play. The scope is fine, it was used the day it was lended to me and was perfect, tracking, repeatability, everything was good. I am going try a bag though, I could be getting bounce from the bipod. I do know that I need to work on body position, I believe it is my position that is giving me the problems.
I'm actually in Wenatchee right now at designated marksmen course for the next 2 weeks, and have really been fine tuning my body positions and it has helped with consistency. I'm not shooting any better groups, the gun is lights out and is capable of sub .5 moa groups all the time (I'm not), it is, but I have far fewer "f-ed off" groups.
This is making me think of my savage 111 LRH .300 win mag. I cant shoot it. Other people can. Ive accepted the fact that i just dont do well with magnum rifles. I now stick with my .308s and my .300 win mag collects dust
Dont thimk that the caliber of rifle you can shoot is representative of your penis size. Shoot what works for you.
Post by: jasnt on April 08, 2015, 05:37:32 AM
Post by: RailRob on April 08, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 08, 2015, 07:49:04 PM
I finally bought the Remington 700 LR in 300 Win Mag. I found one at West Coast Armory North in Everett. It had already been recalled, the trigger was set to a crisp 7 lb pull. My first impression was how nice it looks and how comfortable it feels. The trigger may need to be replaced or worked on if I can't adjust it down far enough. One thing I didn't notice until I brought it home was, When I lift the bolt you can see the piece on the rear of the bolt cock back, normal right? But If I don't bring the bolt back at all and just lower the bolt knob to lock the bolt down, the firing pin goes forward slowly. It won't stay cocked unless I bring the bolt backwards a little. I have heard of other remingtons doing this, some of them do it, some of them don't. I know for sure that they aren't supposed to do that, but I don't know what to do about it right now, it doesn't hinder the accuracy at all and I can't afford to fix it right now. Any Gunsmiths out there know what I am talking about? If so, how much to fix it? Other than that, the fit and finish is very nice, it really is a beautiful rifle. I think a muzzle brake is going to be necessary with how light it is. It weighs in at around 9.2 lbs
I have yet to shoot the thing. I just purchased a scope base yesterday. I should have a Nightforce 1 piece 20 moa rail coming on tuesday. After that, I will put my father in laws Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24 scope on it so I can start shooting and getting a load made. I am going to put a Vortex Viper PST 4-16 ffp Mrad, but I have a work a few overtimes to get it. I will try and give some range reports on the rifle. My father in law has a Sendero in 300 win mag so I am going to start at or below his load and see where I am at and then go from there. I'll be shooting 200 gr. Accubonds.
If it really has a 7lb trigger pull that is probably your problem.
For sure :yeah: Get a timeny "think it's the 510? maybe" Drop your trigger pull 50% or more. That will help a lot and like said get a after market pad on it was well.
Post by: Windwalker on April 08, 2015, 10:29:28 PM
I didn't catch which stock you are using- if you have a niggling question in the back of your mind where the problem lies its wise to listen and act on it until convinced other wise..
From what you have written I think you are perceptive and probably know the answers to these accuracy issues...but the answers to each .010 increment of accuracy after a certain point take an over proportional sum of cash for each diminishing return.
And you look too comfortable to have your NPOA IMHO. :chuckle:
I am not criticizing BTW- more of a good-natured prod so don't take this wrong but. A belly plop isn't synonymous with the contortions and pain inflicted by a solid structural NPOA bone on bone lock.
Gotta lose the rise and fall influence of breathing by a good pretzel twist on to your side.
It sux but once you are locked in it works wonders for follow through.
Once you have established your scope and action is rock solid.
Establish NPOA, Sling it, glass bed it, get a good Trigger, loose the bipod. :tup:
I think you are correct its not flinching but the follow through with a bipod bounce from the recoil throwing the shots.
Came across this and they have some interesting observations about bipod use towards the bottom of the article that may give you some food for thought.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html (http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html)
Post by: lablover on April 13, 2015, 12:56:31 AM
As of right now it is sitting in my case waiting to have a muzzle brake put on it. I recently purchased a Tika 300 WM for hunting and am shooting 1/2 MOA with it using the 210 hunting VLD's and 71gr of RL22 with Federal 215 primers with an OAL of 3.39". I'm planning on using either RL22, or IMR7828 for the LR shooting the AMAX 208 target bullets with Remington Brass.
I ordered a "Maxi Brake" from Accuracy Systems Inc. out of Colorado. I did a lot of research on muzzle brakes and looked for a large recoil reduction from a brake and found this one to be an approximate reduction of 60%. Its going to look like a Howitzer, but then again its only going to be a target gun, not meant for hunting. So, I'll have a large fish-gill style brake with a 20 MOA Warren base. I'm putting a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44MM scope on it with lapped Vortex tactical rings. I also purchased a very cheap bipod to put on the front if I feel like shooting from it. With that set up my calculations (using iStrelok) put me out to between 1500-1600 yards.
The reason I chose this rifle is simple. I want to build a very cheap, accurate, long range rifle that an average person can afford. I don't have the money to purchase a $4,000 Rbros rifle (I wish I did) but I don't. In a perfect world I'm hoping I can get this gun to perform at the 1/2 MOA mark on a regular basis. My hunting partner (csoutfitters) also purchased the same exact rifle at the same time, and we are both setting it up nearly the same way. We will likely be using different techniques and powders to find loads, but it will be interesting to see how they perform. When I get it back from the gunsmith I will take a photo of what it looks like and post it with the brake. Its going to be ridiculous I'm sure.
Post by: kbrowne14 on April 17, 2015, 09:02:45 PM
Having said that, my inconsistencies were far less drastic than with my .300 win mag. But they were there. I still think the heavy recoil amplifies my mistakes and that a muzzle brake will help by being more forgiving. But it is not going to be a band-aid to help cover my mistakes, I will work on those.
I am going to keep this thread going because I think that this gun is good shooter, and I think that there are a lot of people out there like me that are intrigued by a remington 700 long action heavy barrel for $700. I appreciate all the help and advice from everyone. I look forward to posting again with some better results.
Post by: lablover on April 29, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
First the dislikes. The tigger is horrible. 5.25lbs out of the box when they say it is 3.5. I tried to adjust it with the "adjustment screw" on the trigger and couldn't get it below 4.75. Rediculous. I then had to do some adjustment myself. I took a pick and picked all the glue they use to cover the adjustment screws and began doing the adjustments. After about 20 minutes of playing with different combos I was able to get it to 2.5. That's as low as I could get it without tripping the bolt when closing it.
Another dislike. After doing the trigger I began loading some rounds to do break in. When I went to chamber the first one I couldn't even get it to seat in the chamber. I had to use my cleaning rod to push it out. I found a large bur that hadn't been cleared during the machining process. I then cleaned cleaned and cleaned it some more and finally got the bur out. I'm now questioning how well this rifle will perform if the manufacturing is that flawed.
My final dislike, although I'm being a little ridiculous, is the rather narrow recoil lug. I was shocked to see a lug that size for this caliber with a 26" heavy barrel. Although this is a good stock, I'm going to bed the lug at a minimum.
Now for some likes. The stock is amazing for the price. A third of the cost of the rifle is basically for the stock. What does that say about the rifle itself? Remington advertises a fully floated barrel and it is. I was very shocked that that portion of their advertising is actually true.
As you can see, I don't have a lot of likes yet because I haven't been able to shoot it. I am Hoping to go through a brief break in process this weekend or sometime next week. After that I will use Dan Newberrys "Optimal Charge Weight" (OCW) to find my load. I am going to try IMR 7828 with Remington brass using BR-2 primers pushing the Amax 208 bullets. Once I start shooting I will post the results.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 29, 2015, 06:54:25 AM
I like yours.... :tup:
Post by: Stein on April 29, 2015, 08:10:53 AM
Post by: jasnt on April 29, 2015, 10:19:42 AM
Best thing I did for my 700 was throw the stock trigger away and slap in a Timney.:yeah: other thing I did was throw that stock out the window and replaced it with an XLR chassis. I like your brake, who did it?
Post by: lablover on May 01, 2015, 07:24:17 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on May 20, 2015, 12:04:59 PM
I thought that was kind of scary that it slam fired so easily. Being that this is a review of this rifle, I thought it needed to be brought up. I will do another range report with this rifle after i get the rifle back with the muzzle brake.
Post by: mountainman on May 20, 2015, 04:16:23 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on May 20, 2015, 04:58:22 PM
Post by: lablover on May 30, 2015, 10:17:21 PM
IMR 7828
New Remington brass
CCI BR-2 primers
Hornady AMAX 208 bullets
best group was .8"
RL22
New Remington brass
CCI BR-2 primers
Hornady Amax 208 bullets
Two charges had .5" groups
From past history I know that 7828 is better performing that what it did the first time so I have loaded it again this time with magnum primers for better spark on a slower burning powder. I'm hoping I will have .5" or better with that combo. I'll post my findings when I shoot next.
Post by: haugenna on May 31, 2015, 08:16:50 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 31, 2015, 10:59:59 AM
For the looooong stuff the 230gr OTM will hang for a loooong ways.
Post by: Special T on May 31, 2015, 12:32:47 PM
The .300 Win Mag has by far been my prfered chambering for many years. RL-22 and the 165gr Accubond make for a wicked fast combo on big game. For 90% of my shooting while hunting I'll take a little speed and a quality bonded core bullet over mass, in most cases when it comes to .30 Cals. Never had a animal stay on its feet after the first hit with the the RL-22/ 165 Combo out to the mid 600 yard range.
For the looooong stuff the 230gr OTM will hang for a loooong ways.
Do you find that the 230 grain shoot great out of the same one you use for hunting? Was there a need to optimize twist for the heavier or lighter bullet?
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 31, 2015, 01:31:52 PM
Post by: jasnt on May 31, 2015, 05:51:12 PM
Both shoot well out of a 10 twist. Here in a bit I'm going to try both through a polygonal test barrel in a 9.75 twist Chambered in .300 Win Mag. The test barrel will be for a Standard shank Savage. The great thing about the .300 Win Mag's is, it is a very forgiving chambering when it comes to seating depth. The .300 Win Mag likes to be run hard/fast and it shoots just as well kissing the lands as it does jumping 50 thou in most cases.this has been my experience as well. To use my mag I needed .180" of jump with the vld's. Still shoots great even with the huge jump ( weatherby action and barrel)
Post by: lablover on June 03, 2015, 09:26:16 PM
The worst group were the three foulers at 1.06". The five 4 shot groups had the following outcomes; .35", .58", .60", .75", and .95". This is a great example of how primers can make a gun shoot or not shoot depending on the powder selection. In other threads I have seen debates on primer choice, mag or non mag even when shooting a "magnum" cartridge. My tikka 300 wm with 71gr of RL22 with a CCI BR-2 (large rifle) primer shoots @ .48". Same load with a magnum primer is over 1.25". Faster burning powders can use a large rifle and work well. Slower burning powders need the magnum primers.
Ultimately, I'm extremely pleased with how the rifle shoots. With the large brake it shoots like a .243 even when pushing a 208 grain bullet over 2900 fps. The only dislike is the trigger. It is absolute garbage. I really want to keep this a low budget gun, but getting rid of the trigger is next on my to do list. It is absolutely horrible, even at 3lbs. That being said, for $699, I'm looking at a 1/2 MOA rifle instead of spending thousands on a custom. I'll take it. :IBCOOL:
Post by: jasnt on June 03, 2015, 10:00:25 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 04, 2015, 12:30:31 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 04, 2015, 07:32:59 PM
Post by: lablover on June 09, 2015, 07:50:59 PM
The next step I will take is to load somewhere around the .6" load since they had similar points of impact and the test at 200. I've never tried the load development at longer range simply because I have never thought of it. Most reloading and accuracy books all base it off of 100 yard scenarios. I'm familiar with bullet stabilization changes at different points in flight depending on the bullet and its style. I've never really taken that into consideration when developing a load. If this load that I just came up with doesn't work, I may try doing so at 300.
Cboom,
No offense taken. Really I look at it as taking out some of the human error because I know I'm not a top tier marksman. I don't shoot from a lead sled when I do these so there is a lot more human error that can occur. To be honest, I've always done it this way. Believe me, I know there are FAR more intelligent people in this area than I, but this has always worked for me and my methods have consistently brought To accurately hitting 1000 yard targets.
Post by: kbrowne14 on June 21, 2015, 12:20:56 PM
Post by: Firedogg on June 21, 2015, 05:26:25 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on June 21, 2015, 10:54:54 PM
Post by: Firedogg on June 21, 2015, 11:55:57 PM
I am also a believer in holding the forend of the rifle when shooting to control the muzzle flip, especially on the .300 with the jump it gives. Seeing your video of you shooting that was the first thought in my mind. Watching the link to the article posted confirmed reasons why I like it. It's the way I shoot my Browning and I am right at .75 groups with Remington 180grn factory loads.
Post by: thinkingman on June 22, 2015, 07:55:20 AM
My rifle is still at Benchmark Barrels. They called me and told me that they have the muzzle brake on, however, the slam fire issue was due to my bolt or something being too far out of spec. They said that the only thing that would fix it right without cause a bad trigger pull would be to replace the bolt with a PTG bolt. Which is 300 dollars. Damn. What to do?That sucks. I'm sorry you are in that situation.
This is why I tell anyone who will listen that a Rem 700 project is a crapshoot at best.
Best of luck.
Post by: kbrowne14 on August 03, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on August 03, 2015, 01:04:29 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on September 20, 2015, 04:19:17 PM
I have never had this kind of consistency with this gun. I am really excited right now. And all it took was a different powder. I feel kind of dumb now. I can really say now, this gun is a shooter. For whatever reason, this gun did not like the 200 AB with H1000 combo. It hated the h1000. But I'm glad I figured it out. I still have to fine tune this load, and have more tests to do, but I know that I can shoot it and it can hold sub moa. That's all I want. I don't need a .25 moa gun. I just need it to be MOA or better. And it will do that. I hope this has been helpful for anyone that has considered buying one. these were the problems that I encountered. Some of them, my fault, like not doing proper load development and trying to force the powder I had on hand, some of them, like the bolt being out spec, the guns fault. But it all came together.
Post by: Taco280AI on September 20, 2015, 04:33:19 PM
Is great when you finally do get the groups you're wanting, makes range sessions enjoyable.
Post by: kbrowne14 on May 18, 2016, 08:12:37 PM
All in all, to be honest, I had to put a lot of work into this gun. The trigger, the bolt, the muzzle brake, this isn't a $700 rifle any more. I needed a gun that I can take hunting, shoot long range with, and do some precision competitions with. I also needed the 300 win mag. This does fit the bill, but I think a sendero might be a better choice. I would still need a trigger and a brake, but I don't think I would need a new bolt. I think the quality would be a little better in the sendero. I don't think that I would buy this gun again. It shoots now, it works now, but it really has been a pain. This gun can be a steal if you don't have the problems I did, but you run the risk. I think they can all be made to shoot accurately, but it may take more work than other guns. This will be my last update in this thread, I feel that 500 rounds through it should display majority of its strengths and weaknesses. I hope this has been helpful.
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 19, 2016, 06:00:37 AM
With that said.......
What would you suggest for a stock Remmy ADL? I will do a Timney and my own glass bed, but what stock, barrel and brake should be considered to make mine a LR gun?
Thanks :tup:
Post by: YukonHunter on May 19, 2016, 08:33:49 AM
Post by: kbrowne14 on May 19, 2016, 04:13:55 PM
I would give your barreled action to Benchmark, have them true it, and put on a medium palma barrel, and thread on a brake. Benchmark is a great company. I shot a 6.5 creedmoor this weekend they put together in that config. and it shot great. A medium palma is heavy enough to stay rigid with repeated firing, but light enough to move it around when you need it.
Honestly though, if you bought or have a stock that is rigid enough and just put good glass on it, you can shoot long range. You don't need a 1/2 minute gun to shot long, you need a 1 minute gun or better. Most R700's are capable of that. Buy glass,ammo and shoot.
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 20, 2016, 05:36:16 AM
I would say the best bang for the buck is going to be HS precision. I like HS Precision over bell and Carlson, I like the feel better in the HS. There are for sure, better stocks out there, like manners, McMillan, or chassis. I have a B&C, its does its job, but I think Quality Control is a little higher in HS. Muzzle brake, I went with Benchmark Barrel's Miller Brake. I can shoot my 300 win mag all day long and not complain.Thanks KBrowne. What would the palma barrel and brake roughly cost? I've never purchased an after market barrel before. As far as glass goes, you get the best you can afford....
I would give your barreled action to Benchmark, have them true it, and put on a medium palma barrel, and thread on a brake. Benchmark is a great company. I shot a 6.5 creedmoor this weekend they put together in that config. and it shot great. A medium palma is heavy enough to stay rigid with repeated firing, but light enough to move it around when you need it.
Honestly though, if you bought or have a stock that is rigid enough and just put good glass on it, you can shoot long range. You don't need a 1/2 minute gun to shot long, you need a 1 minute gun or better. Most R700's are capable of that. Buy glass,ammo and shoot.
Post by: rbros on May 20, 2016, 06:56:34 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 20, 2016, 12:02:48 PM
This seems to be the case with the Remington long ranges. I have rebarrelled a bunch of them. A guy is almost better off buying a cheap adl and building off the action. Then you know exactly what your getting and will perform under .5 moa consistently.That's where I'm coming from. I have shot a few hundred rounds through it in 17 years. with a performance barrel and brake, I would shoot 100+ a year easy. It wouldn't be cheap but it would be fun. 8)
Post by: jackelope on May 20, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
This seems to be the case with the Remington long ranges. I have rebarrelled a bunch of them. A guy is almost better off buying a cheap adl and building off the action. Then you know exactly what your getting and will perform under .5 moa consistently.I'd never think about debating rifle facts with you but I have a Rem 700LR in .25-06 and it shoots lights out for a $699 rifle. I do have a Timney trigger put in it, but that's it. First 3 shot group out of the rifle I think were about a .8" group and that was with some 20 year old handloads a friend had from another rifle. It was 2 shots to get it on paper, then I shot the group. So shots 3, 4 and 5 out of it. Do you think they mostly have problems shooting good groups? I haven't shot it since, but was assuming I'd work up a load for it and have it shooting better than that in time. I don't expect .25" groups out of it, but thought maybe I'd get down into the .5-.6" groups with a little work. I thought for a sub $1k rifle, that wasn't too bad.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160520%2Ffd3a62c834cb4d6b388fa26c051744ca.jpg&hash=46d7d397471ac1919edf1f5a06ab17d2320eb0e1)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160520%2F4d2de57e3f25ab7a2e8f4374cd4e2153.jpg&hash=7ef41f152ab44d57755d3f70474a9bf7a2b73589)
Post by: rbros on May 20, 2016, 04:14:32 PM
Remington Donor: $250
Barrel: $330 (unfluted)
B&C Stock: $299
True/Chamber: $500
Skim Bed: $75
Timney: $125
Total: $1579
You basically have a 700LR replica that you know shoots sub .5moa all the time and doesn't brake the bank vs buying a 700LR and not having it shoot.