Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 09:32:42 AM
Post by: CP on September 15, 2014, 09:35:41 AM
Post by: Crunchy on September 15, 2014, 09:39:44 AM
Post by: Odell on September 15, 2014, 09:41:14 AM
Animals respond to pressure, but these elk are being pressured into another area of pressure???
Also I think part of the goal in those areas is to have the elk leave or disperse. Or at least some of them. So if MH hunts are forcing elk out of the area I think the state would consider that a success.
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 10:09:53 AM
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
If you believe that amount of hunting "scared every elk out of those area!", then I suspect no amount of factual data would change your mind.
Post by: woodswalker on September 15, 2014, 10:23:00 AM
I think that Bob33 nailed it...no amount of factual data would change your mind
A MH in these units get’s assigned to a private landowner only after a complaint is made. After that they only can deal with the elk on the private property they are assigned to. There are no designated MHE hunts on public land in this unit.
Post by: Odell on September 15, 2014, 10:23:29 AM
Odell, the "master hunters" all know each other. They call each other and also call landowners and game dept to find exactly where the elk are. When the "master hunters" first started hunting together with the game department and local land owners they where told all the local hot spots we locals hunt during the general season elk. They hunted these areas pre general season and scared every elk out of those area! For the last four years the elk have become more and more dependent on meadowbrook as home. It has reached the point where the elk numbers in all surrounding areas are less and the only spot they are moving to is meadowbrook and snoq city limits where hunting is illegal unless your a "master hunter" that have special privileges. It's not doing anyone good except the "master hunters"
I got my MH permit 2-3 years ago. I've never had a single phone call from anyone, and never experienced any of what you are talking about. I haven't hunted your area either so I can't say whats happening or not. If it's that bad, just go get a MH permit. Its pretty easy to get, although has very few benefits.
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 10:25:52 AM
You seem to feel very strongly about this. Do you have a personal experience that has led you to this? You are putting some pretty heavy accusations that suggest a fantasy type of scheming and colluding.
Post by: CP on September 15, 2014, 10:26:57 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2014, 10:34:33 AM
My gut tells me that bustbigking isn't clear on how the MH program works.
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 10:40:03 AM
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 10:43:01 AM
Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense.
By the way....I can't vote in your poll. You need to add options for what others may think...such as leave it alone.
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 10:50:35 AM
I'm not the only one who is fed up with this. I don't know if you noticed but one of the issues up for change for 2015 is "master hunters" making local landowners mad because they are constantly chasing the elk off public land and onto private land then asking permition to hunt. And Bob I'm not just piping off random things I know nothing about. I know many landowners fed up with the "master hunters" and I know how many permits are issued, who is hunting with those permits, where they are hunting, what season they hunt, what landowners they have permition from, and when they kill elk. It's not hard to hear muzzle loader shots pre season on the golf course or polo club. I'm not grumpy at all this morning I'm actually vary happy. Just pissed that the "master hunters" are making hunting in once great elk areas now vary vary difficult and on the verge of illegal! Sorry if I ruffle your feathers.... "Master hunters" are starting ruffle the whole flock!!
Who is this whole flock that you refer to? I am not a master hunter and just harvested an elk out of 460. Public. I dont know where you are coming up with these "facts". Are you upset because you see so many elk and want to hunt wherever? Are you a member of the local Elk group, and if so, have you brought it up in meetings? I for one have not seen anyone at any of our meetings that sais anything of the like. Master hunters arent pushing the elk where others cannot hunt. You may want to explore some other areas, put in some time and find the elk that are there. Talk to landowners yourself. Beat them at there own "game". We have a meeting tonight if you wish to voice your opinion there. If it really does ruffle some feathers, then I will see you tonight. Otherwise, your just complaining. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2014, 11:00:03 AM
Post by: brutus1 on September 15, 2014, 11:02:29 AM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 11:06:54 AM
Post by: woodswalker on September 15, 2014, 11:07:57 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2014, 11:09:15 AM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 11:12:05 AM
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 11:36:36 AM
Post by: woodswalker on September 15, 2014, 11:38:41 AM
I'm not going to join a group I disagree with.
So you are saying that you wont try to learn facts if they go against your preconcieved notions? Afraid you might learn that you are not correct?
WERE you to attend you would find landowners who are NOT MH fans...but also dont like the elk eating things and tearing out fences. But then that might be a FACT...which contradicts your view.
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 11:42:04 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2014, 11:42:20 AM
I'm not going to join a group I disagree with.
Pretty sure spud is referring to the upper Snoqualmie valley elk group, not the MH group. Are you aware of that group, bustbigking?
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 11:50:27 AM
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
Thank you Steve miller. You are correct! That is exactly what they are doing and if anyone disagrees you are either one of the MH doing it or don't realize the facts! My good long time friend is a MH and has been doing do since it first came out called advanced hunter education. I know what is going on not only in 460 but 335 and 3911. If you don't know than you might want to find out and realize how it is impacting all general season elk hunting and elk habits. And Jackelope, I have witnessed and my friends and others have witnessed elk hunting areas that no one knew about except long time locals and the game wardens "from scouting us out", become hot spots for MH pre season. Me and a friend watched MH get esscorted by a known game warden into an area that only few knew about, killed a cow and asked my friend to show them how to gut and clean it!! They had no clue how to gut an animal! That was just the beginning of many issues with the MH!I dont want you to think that I agree or disagree with you I was just saying that I know that they do herd elk,Not saying that they have some ill concieved game plan to put them where they and only they hunt.I think the idea of going to a meeting with these groups would be a great idea as long as it was with an open mind.MH's dont always get the call to do a hunt most times they dont,MH's dont always fill their freezers either,They dont get privvy info that only they can get either.Anyone could get more info on where the herds are by putting boots to the ground,A phone call to another MH just wont get it done. In my op :twocents: Some times when there is a problem with a herd they dont send MH's in to kill the elk with tags,They simply go there and herd them somewhere else.Sorry if there was any confusion.
Post by: Goldeneye on September 15, 2014, 11:56:35 AM
There are 35 permits givin to MH for NorthBend. Season is from Aug 1st-march 31st....yes 8 month long season! Guess the elk get a couple months rest.. Oh and y'all thought elk season was from sep-nov.... While most of us are floating the north fork and giving the elk a break, MH are out chasing elk hunting them.. Hmmmm. O
You do realize that of those 35 permits most are not actively hunting and a good number may not get called to hunt. They can only go into the field after a landowner contacts WDFW and files a damage complaint. Then that landowner get's a MH assigned. That MH then meets with the landowner and learns the property restrictions etc. Than and only then can the MH hunt that property. The MH will never initiate contact with a landowner for hunting purposes. Their direction comes from WDFW after the property owner initiated the request. Yes, it is a long season. It is that way to address nuisance animals during times when the bulk of complaints are filed with WDFW. This is not for sport hunting.
To repeat what others have said. There are not any MH's hunting with this permit on public land. It is not valid for that.
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 11:57:59 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on September 15, 2014, 12:04:10 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 15, 2014, 12:14:22 PM
If you don't like something join the master hunter group and be a board member and change the rules to your liking. ...I don't belong to a gang as you refer to, and I dont believe in most hunts that are offered in this program. ..Most master hunters in my opinion couldn't hunt any other way. Define a true hunter and not a killer a big difference that's what this program has become..my two cents.
Ah, hunters turning on other hunters. What a great thread! :tup:
There's a big difference between the MHs and the people who administrate the program. The hunters are used in many different ways, all at the direction of the WDFW. I've not once been used as part of a large group which herds animals as described above. To make a blanket statement that MHs aren't hunters, they're only killers, shows ignorance not only of the program but of any sense of sticking together as hunters. If you don't like the program, go talk to the administration about it. But you might stop trying to throw other hunters under the bus just because someone is doing something you haven't taken the time or effort to do yourself. Anti-hunters love people like you. They just sit back and watch as we hunters chew each other apart. :bash:
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 12:32:34 PM
If you don't like something join the master hunter group and be a board member and change the rules to your liking. ...I don't belong to a gang as you refer to, and I dont believe in most hunts that are offered in this program. ..Most master hunters in my opinion couldn't hunt any other way. Define a true hunter and not a killer a big difference that's what this program has become..my two cents.
Ah, hunters turning on other hunters. What a great thread! :tup:
There's a big difference between the MHs and the people who administrate the program. The hunters are used in many different ways, all at the direction of the WDFW. I've not once been used as part of a large group which herds animals as described above. To make a blanket statement that MHs aren't hunters, they're only killers, shows ignorance not only of the program but of any sense of sticking together as hunters. If you don't like the program, go talk to the administration about it. But you might stop trying to throw other hunters under the bus just because someone is doing something you haven't taken the time or effort to do yourself. Anti-hunters love people like you. They just sit back and watch as we hunters chew each other apart. :bash:
No one said "killers"
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 12:33:54 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 15, 2014, 12:34:17 PM
I personally don't care about the tags and applied for none of them this year. When they took away the quality bull tags a couple of years ago, I had no problem with that. You have the wrong idea if you think everyone in the program is a killer and not a hunter, and doesn't care about anyone else. I know for a fact that's not the case.
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 12:38:05 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2014, 12:42:28 PM
All I can say is look at the poll. 8 of you complain that I don't know what I'm taking about and 15 have polled a change! So looks as though more agree with me than not!I voted for the option "Leave the program unchanged". Did you count that one?
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 12:45:25 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 12:51:16 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 12:58:07 PM
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 01:03:20 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 15, 2014, 01:06:17 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 01:12:53 PM
They get used after season when animals get pushed in or cause problems where they shouldnt be.
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2014, 01:17:27 PM
Going about by posting a one-sided poll on a blog really doesn't accomplish much besides alienting one hunter from another.
Your poll won't do anything constructive. Is that what you want?
If you want change, go to a USVEMG meeting and make a well prepared and reasoned presentation.
Contact the WDFW Wildlife Commission with your concerns. They are the ones who issued policy decision POL-C6005.
You may also wish to make an effort to change WAC 232-12-073 which legally authorizes the program.
http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-073 (http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-073)
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c6005.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c6005.html)
Post by: Little Dave on September 15, 2014, 01:23:56 PM
The hunt has generally been conducted on properties where the owner is suffering huge loss because of elk damage, principally the golf courses, the nursery, Christmas tree farms, and private landowners with orchards or tasty hedges. The coordinator creates a portfolio of these properties, and introduces the guy from Oak Harbor, or Kenmore, or Yakima, or Spanaway, etc. (20 new out-of-area guys every year) to these properties. They drive around town looking for an opportunity on one of the properties in the portfolio. They wear orange in their blinds, the poachers probably don't.
One can go find a 50 year old guy with a desk job that can't tell the difference between a hemlock and a maple and set him up with a Master Hunter permit in about two months time. The first Master Hunter I worked with I showed him around the property, then back at his truck he loaded his rifle on the seat of his rig (which is not legal in Washington). Generally, the department uses the program to snow landowners and get them to grant access to permit holders. There's some good guys and there are some good hunters in the program, but in my opinion there is not a good correlation between what the program portrays and what the program members are. An analogy is that the coordinator acts like a used car salesman as both could say, "Some are better than others but all have been certified."
Other factors are also affecting the elk this season including urban development, fencing, and special events held in the middle of the preserve during the general season. The group that is collaring cows would like to see the number of master hunter permits increased significantly. The game warden describes the program as a meat hunt, a success, and a model for the state.
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 01:33:39 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 15, 2014, 01:38:29 PM
PMan.
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2014, 01:48:46 PM
The first Master Hunter I worked with I showed him around the property, then back at his truck he loaded his rifle on the seat of his rig (which is not legal in Washington). Generally, the department uses the program to snow landowners and get them to grant access to permit holders. There's some good guys and there are some good hunters in the program, but in my opinion there is not a good correlation between what the program portrays and what the program members are.Unfortunately there is truth in that. If there were a way to guarantee that only ethical, proficient individuals are accepted into a program, I'm sure it would be of great value. Perhaps the "ethics" test portion could be applied to candidates for political office. ;)
The program does have a zero tolerance policy. Had you turned in the MH for having a loaded long gun in his vehicle, he would no longer be a MH.
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 01:49:50 PM
For all you haters.... Always quick to complain. So quick you have no time to notice three of the options on the poll where to keep your season just make it more reasonable. Guess hunting during the general season is too much to ask for a MH??
So far I only see one "hater" whom is quick to complain.
Three options to make the MH season more reasonable? Please. Your attempt at a poll only shows what you, one person, think is reasonalble. Why don't you open the converstation for discussion by allowing people to make suggestions then you can post the top 5 suggested changes?
You have blinders on. Everyone can see you are looking to gain sympathy to your agenda whatever that may be. I ask again, what has transpired to make you so passionate that you believe MH are pushing animals from public to private. No, the story about a warden giving a map out that included your sweet spots just isn't good enough. So far all I see is a rant against hunters that have access to the possible, not guranteed, hunt oppurunities that you do not.
Post by: WSU on September 15, 2014, 01:59:36 PM
Post by: CP on September 15, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
:beatdeadhorse:
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 02:36:53 PM
Post by: 2MANY on September 15, 2014, 02:42:40 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 15, 2014, 02:47:47 PM
Post by: CP on September 15, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 02:58:23 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 03:08:53 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 03:11:30 PM
Post by: Blackjaw on September 15, 2014, 03:21:24 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 03:23:15 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2014, 03:26:40 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2014, 03:27:54 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 03:28:32 PM
Post by: WSU on September 15, 2014, 03:35:44 PM
Post by: woodswalker on September 15, 2014, 03:36:51 PM
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 03:41:19 PM
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 03:42:50 PM
Post by: WSU on September 15, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
What are the gang colors for these MH gangs,Ill keep an eye out for them. :dunno: Seriously though I dont know you but I am getting the idea that you might not be a hunter.Like you nothing you say to me will change my mind,There are bad people in all user groups even anti hunting groups :yike:. So for you to put all MH'S in one bag sp to say is no diff. than antis from all groupos doing the same. :hello:
Camo. Mossy Oak Real Tree to be exact. It lets us sneak up on the elks to more effectively shoo them and can be had at Cabela's.
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 15, 2014, 03:54:52 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on September 15, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
They shirley have to be camo colors. Although pink is THE color of choice. Does it have to be a 4x4 quad?
"Stop calling me Shirley"
Sorry...had to...
Post by: woodswalker on September 15, 2014, 04:12:38 PM
What I have NOT seen is what you describe. I have been involved with the repair of the elk fences, involved with the Upper Valley group, worked with Hancock and a host of other things involving elk and habitat and conflict. Yeah I've even HUNTED in the Valley. Heck, I'm even one of your MH boogy-men. Folks who HAVE hunted as MH down there have posted on the process for MH to be used to move elk off of problem areas.
The more you talk and holler, the more it sounds like you are a jilted local who lost his private honey hole...
Post by: hntrspud on September 15, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
Really people! If you don't know how NB elk react and move you have no right to be talking smack about pressuring them onto private land! It is a fact and you making jokes about it just makes you look even more ignorant. You obviously know nothing about the elk in NB or you would not be saying that stuff. Anyone who is local knows the elk habits and knows what I'm talking about! Oh need an example to back up what I'm saying???? How about the fact that the elk are balled up before the early archery season even opens! Before the MH came to town they would t be balled up till mid October early November. You guys have said nothing about the positive things you do or how you help out our tradition of hunting? This poll is about "master Hunters" in north bend and if you know nothing about our town you have no business talking smack about random nothing's! Thanks:)
Actually, I DO know how elk in NB react. You arent doing anything positie to help your cause here. You really think the Elk are balled up? What is the herd count?? Do you know where the others are going? I do. Do you know what the agenda is of our group? I do. If you did, then you would attend meetings to make a change. None of our logical questions posted to you about whether or not you are actually doing something productive to fix this "problem", have been answered, only "I have seen." Do you know what the other requirments are for the MH? Why is it that you arent answering these questions? What about the native americans and how they affect the elk herd? Do they shoo the elk too?
Post by: emac on September 15, 2014, 06:48:33 PM
I got drawn for a mh tag in skagit this year. I guess i am going have to take your advice and get the few mh i know and go up there and push them on to private ground so i increase my odds at getting a phone call to shoot one. Or i will drive around and ask the landowners for "petition" as you call it. Oh wait i can't because the hunt coordinator has to call you first.
As many others have said get involved with the local organizations and do something about it if this "supposed" stuff is happening.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: BAR C3 on September 15, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
I will say that categorizing all Master Hunters as one is BS. Same to me as the Indian bashing.
The whole program does need to go in the garbage. Once again, not to say all, but I know several who have been busted poaching. Also know of several that didn't do crap to get there certification. They passed the test, had a firearms instructor go out and shoot damn near point blank, then said they did some volunteer work on there farm.
Well I was a firearm instructor and own a farm and told several to kick rocks if you thought I would lower myself to that.
The answer, do like Montana. Everyone puts in for damage hunts and you get drawn for ranking. You get certain dates. If you don't take them, move down list.
Since our state has so many hunters, limit to older, younger, or folks who did not draw.
Post by: Dan-o on September 15, 2014, 07:54:54 PM
I think it's a very worthwhile program for WDFW.
Really, it's not about a few easy antlerless tags; it's about people who love elk and elk country.
Are there some bad apples in the group? Yes
There are some bad apples in any group that size.
But, as previously mentioned, there is a zero tolerance policy and anyone caught cheating is suspended form the program even before they are convicted. How can WDFW do more than that?
I'm not sure I buy the OP's description of MH's who can't gut an elk. I suppose it could be true.... IDK.
What I know is that the MH program does a lot of good for the state in total.
I also believe that it's inadvisable to turn some of these hunts over to "general" tags. There are reasons they are MH hunts. It takes more time and effort to figure out where you can/can't hunt. Not everyone will put in the effort.
There are always haters....... too bad. It's a good program.
Post by: bullfisher on September 15, 2014, 08:13:17 PM
To disaggree with an experimental hunting program isn't self distructive at all, quit the opposite actually.
I can't speak for the OP's claims against the MH's. But the program just hasn't proven useful to me :dunno:
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 08:30:41 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 15, 2014, 08:40:02 PM
Caused by elk damage. Is Joe public gonna do that beacause they draw
A late damage tag?
Post by: Dan-o on September 15, 2014, 08:44:57 PM
I suppose I could find like minded people another way, but I have met some great folks through the MH program.
Post by: stevemiller on September 15, 2014, 08:49:01 PM
Post by: cuzsis on September 15, 2014, 10:51:20 PM
Given how expensive it is to keep a yard, I can understand why some folks would not want the elk in their yard. And I understand having someone "official" to go to, instead of putting up an ad on craigslist and hoping you get a decent hunter. Again, like any group I'm sure there are some bad apples in the MH program, but if you're a private landowner going to take a chance, someone who's been vetted by the state is going to be a more attractive option with most folks. OP may not like that, but that's probably what's going on. My :.02: anyway.
I think if OP has seen actual illegal activity he should report it to the authorities, complaining on a public forum doesn't make a lot of sense for that.
As far as the MH program in general. That's something he should take up with WDFW if he has an issue with it. They're the ones who run the program and they do take input.
Post by: Little Dave on September 15, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
There are a number of reasons why people hunt close to home. One reason is money, it can be expensive to hunt far from home. They care for a person or cannot afford time away from the day job. Then there's the fact that living locally, these are the people that keep an eye on the property when you are out of town. They know your kid's names. You see them in the store, at church, and so forth. You help them when a tree is down. When they need help finding lost stock you are there in minutes, or they need help running sandbags in a flood. So should the state move in because these guys don't have the right resources to hunt farther away from home? Should it be just a rich man's sport? Should we neglect their efforts because they have not or cannot apply for the Master Hunter permit?
Some of the property owners are completely unfamiliar and uninterested in matters of hunting sportsmanship. They just want damage relief. They will generally agree to the nice sounding concept of the master hunter program, not knowing what it means to their friend in town that has hunted there in the past. It can be an easy sell, but would take the heart of a used car salesman for the state's representative to neglect another hunter's hard earned access.
What would be the sportsmanlike way of handling this matter? Should the master hunter continue to hunt these properties during the general season? Should the state be in the business of maximizing hunting opportunity for all hunters?
Ideally the master hunt permit season should not overlap the general seasons, the general seasons extended in the damage area. As it is, if I were assigned the role of coordinator for this hunt, I would not assign permit holders during the general seasons and the one full week before the opening day of the general seasons, a sportsmanlike ethic. It is a reasonable accommodation. Other ideas?
Post by: cuzsis on September 16, 2014, 01:47:08 PM
I would assume that they cannot hunt general season unless they have permission from the land owner for that. MH and general season seem to be pretty well delineated. I know I'd be right ticked if I came home and found a hunter on my land without explicit permission for that day/time and I would put in a call to the Game Warden, MH or not!
As for the program itself, I've looked into it. The cost is only $50 and your time. You have to study to pass a written test, show you can shoot accurately and donate some volunteer hours. And it's good for...what? 5yrs if you volunteer regularly? $10/yr seems plenty reasonable, even cheap.
I personally don't have an issue with the written test as it's described. It sounds reasonable.
Shooting accurately, no one can really argue against that.
Volunteer time, this is the one that I think can trip people up the most. I know the elk group around here does MH hours for various things. And the WDFW website seems to have a few options too. So at least for around here, it seems to be less of a concern.
For the local hunter, if you have friends who are land owners, you'd have to ask yourself why would they call WDFW and not you if they wanted some help hunting on their land? It wouldn't take anything to mention it. I know I've mentioned it to friends in the past who've complained about deer on their land. They're not at the point of actually wanting a hunter there, but they know I'm available if they do. I can't see that being too big of an issue if you put in a tiny bit of effort to advertise yourself.
New land owners, or land owners who *don't* know the hunter, then yeah I can see that being an issue. But then again you're dealing with "unknown hunter" vs "state vetted hunter" and most people will risk the later. Just human nature. :twocents:
Post by: BAR C3 on September 16, 2014, 02:00:58 PM
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
Post by: CP on September 16, 2014, 02:04:52 PM
I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
Post by: h20hunter on September 16, 2014, 02:06:53 PM
Where is the OP?
Post by: Bob33 on September 16, 2014, 02:13:02 PM
In fact the program used to the called AHE - Advanced Hunter Education.I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
Most applicants study a minimum of 30 to 40 hours prior to the written the exam. Applicants can test twice. The pass rate on first attempts is less than 50 percent. It's not an easy exam.
Post by: BAR C3 on September 16, 2014, 02:13:37 PM
CP, Where did I say there was no education? I would have no issue passing any of there tests.I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
I'm not a hypocrite and will be part of something I do not support. If it was truly a certification by certified instructors, I would.
Getting educated does not make them a better hunter. As I stated, I personally know two that were "Master Hunters" that got busted for poaching. They were dealt with swiftly as said. I have heard of others, but can only report on what I know 100%.
I also what to clarify as I did on my previous post, I'm not attacking the Master Hunters individually. Only the program!
Post by: snowpack on September 16, 2014, 02:19:56 PM
I'm curious to know what is on this advanced test that gives less than 50% pass rate. Can you throw a dog a bone here with an example or few? Unless they grade for spelling and grammar, then I can see why it is so tough.In fact the program used to the called AHE - Advanced Hunter Education.I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
Most applicants study a minimum of 30 to 40 hours prior to the written the exam. Applicants can test twice. The pass rate on first attempts is less than 50 percent. It's not an easy exam.
Post by: Bob33 on September 16, 2014, 02:31:34 PM
I'm curious to know what is on this advanced test that gives less than 50% pass rate. Can you throw a dog a bone here with an example or few? Unless they grade for spelling and grammar, then I can see why it is so tough.There are quite a few materials provided to applicants that need to be studied in order to pass the exam. A lot pertains to studies done of the public's perception of hunting and related topics. It is much more than knowing how to hunt, regulations, etc. It is 100 questions and spelling/grammar are not part of the exam.
Post by: snowpack on September 16, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
Post by: CP on September 16, 2014, 02:33:28 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/masterhunter/links.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/masterhunter/links.html)
Post by: BAR C3 on September 16, 2014, 02:39:59 PM
I thought their was a section on herding.... :yike: :IBCOOL: :lol4:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 16, 2014, 02:47:54 PM
I'm curious to know what is on this advanced test that gives less than 50% pass rate. Can you throw a dog a bone here with an example or few? Unless they grade for spelling and grammar, then I can see why it is so tough.In fact the program used to the called AHE - Advanced Hunter Education.I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
Most applicants study a minimum of 30 to 40 hours prior to the written the exam. Applicants can test twice. The pass rate on first attempts is less than 50 percent. It's not an easy exam.
There's a lot of reading and comprehension. You'd be surprised at how many took Hunter Education 20 years ago and don't study it for the test - big part. Learning about conservation history and specific laws and bills other than just PR. I think a lot of the people who do fail the test do so because they underestimate the importance of studying every aspect of the course and memorizing certain stuff.
Post by: stevemiller on September 16, 2014, 03:40:30 PM
Im sorry but this is the 2nd time someone said a farmer friend can just sign it off,That just isnt true.It has to be ok buy the wdfw or dnr before any work can be done then only for the period of time ok by them.You have to have all your info to them before any volunteer time even counts.CP, Where did I say there was no education? I would have no issue passing any of there tests.I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.
It is "advanced hunter ed". They should call it that instead of master hunter. Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.
I'm not a hypocrite and will be part of something I do not support. If it was truly a certification by certified instructors, I would.
Getting educated does not make them a better hunter. As I stated, I personally know two that were "Master Hunters" that got busted for poaching. They were dealt with swiftly as said. I have heard of others, but can only report on what I know 100%.
I also what to clarify as I did on my previous post, I'm not attacking the Master Hunters individually. Only the program!
Post by: BAR C3 on September 16, 2014, 04:15:49 PM
Do you not think there are not farms enrolled with the game department?? Once again, its a hand shake with the farmer, not the game department.
There is one within five miles from my house!
Post by: super186 on September 16, 2014, 05:41:02 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on September 16, 2014, 06:08:54 PM
I hate it when people speak emotionally and not speak factually!
You've obviously come to the wrong web site.
Post by: Bob33 on September 16, 2014, 06:23:53 PM
:chuckle:I hate it when people speak emotionally and not speak factually!
You've obviously come to the wrong web site.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on September 16, 2014, 06:57:36 PM
The one thing I have learned about Hunt WA members. They do know a ton, but they don't know everything that goes on. Perhaps your argument should NOT include all MHs, as it may only be a select few giving MHs a bad name. I can see this happening, as even the most unsuspected people (such as a MH) will take advantage when the opportunity permits.
As passionate and connected as you are; I don't understand why you and the upset people you know, would not want to attend a meeting to try and solve the problem. Complaining on Hunt WA will not get anything done. All you will get here is 5 pages of opinions, and Hunt WA members acting as if only their opinion matters.
I neither agree or disagree with you, but I can see both sides of this issue being truthful.
Post by: Dan-o on September 16, 2014, 07:08:14 PM
Ok I guess I'm lying....
Do you not think there are not farms enrolled with the game department?? Once again, its a hand shake with the farmer, not the game department.
There is one within five miles from my house!
If you know this to be true, then turn them in.
That doesn't make the program bad. if it did, this state should just shut off ALL hunting and fishing.
Post by: Dan-o on September 16, 2014, 07:14:13 PM
I hate it when people speak emotionally and not speak factually!
You've obviously come to the wrong web site.
LOL.... I just spit my dinner up on my keyboard. >:(
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 17, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
Bust King
The one thing I have learned about Hunt WA members. They do know a ton, but they don't know everything that goes on. Perhaps your argument should NOT include all MHs, as it may only be a select few giving MHs a bad name. I can see this happening, as even the most unsuspected people (such as a MH) will take advantage when the opportunity permits.
As passionate and connected as you are; I don't understand why you and the upset people you know, would not want to attend a meeting to try and solve the problem. Complaining on Hunt WA will not get anything done. All you will get here is 5 pages of opinions, and Hunt WA members acting as if only their opinion matters.
I neither agree or disagree with you, but I can see both sides of this issue being truthful.
Sweeping generalizations are rarely accurate. "All hunters are drunk in the woods." "People who have guns in their homes don't care about their children." "Bearpaw doesn't bathe at all for three months in the fall." Well,... :chuckle:
Post by: hntrspud on September 17, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
Post by: bustbigking on September 17, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 17, 2014, 05:17:04 PM
Your ranting is flawed and sounding a little like you feel entitled to these animals that belong to us all?
A little editing and adding:
Can we go back to your original post please:
Homeowners and General season Hunters are becoming more and more annoyed with the "Master Hunters". They are also making the elk hunting in near by areas horrible.
It appears from the poll that this is incorrect regarding the majority that voted in regards to season hunters. I have yet to hear how they are making the elk hunting horrible.
In areas once littered with elk sign now not a single track. The "Master Hunters" are driving the elk out of public land areas and some private areas now and forcing them to go to where "Master Hunters" and only "Master Hunters" are allowed to hunt.
There are probably many many more factors that are displacing or changing the habits of elk. You claim that they are driving the elk out of public land and onto private is still unfounded and absurd.
It is also getting out of hand in many other areas in the state. Acting as a "Gang" the "Master Hunters" chase the elk almost all year round and make the general season public land hunts a joke!
You have stated that they are acting as a gang but also failed to provide any proof. As stated, they don't get to chase elk almost all year round. Yes, their season is longer if you want to consider being "on call" a longer season. Its not like they are actively hunting the entire time.
Post by: woodswalker on September 17, 2014, 07:59:53 PM
Post by: bustbigking on September 17, 2014, 08:11:42 PM
And woodswalker... Your absolutely right! But when you say honey hole you should have said lost the whole hive to a bunch of guys from out of town that probably never heard of NorthBend before but get a spoon fed tour of the area! Great deal huh? Pretty cool deal? Pretty awesome and respectful. It's like calling a list of guys on a fishing page telling them to come fish a river they know absolutely nothing about and give them a map of all the good holes. Then the next thing you know it looks like the Rieter hatchery.... Filled with people that heard about it from there buddy's online! Good deal buddy keep all them coming. By the way can you e-mail me a map and directions to your favorite honey hole? Thanks look forward to being spoon fed too!!
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 18, 2014, 04:58:42 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on September 18, 2014, 05:07:16 AM
Post by: hntrspud on September 18, 2014, 09:36:09 AM
Then go there.
You seem to act like you are educated yet, your points have been proven wrong. They were the other night also. Calling out homeowners like you knew them when they were sitting across the room from you guys. Funny how its easy to blame something on someone else. MH arent the problem with these areas. Go ask homeowners yourself, some were at the meeting. However the way things are approached they probably wouldnt allow you to hunt now. Your concerns arent with anyone but WDFW. Losing a honey hole, no matter what method can make a person upset. I get it, but go find another one. You guys seemed to know where some bulls are that arent on Private Property, your friend said it. Hunt those up.
Post by: runamuk on September 18, 2014, 09:46:48 AM
Quote
your elk" not my elk!! Meaning the true hunters
oh gosh a one true wayer....promoter of the twue way of hunting.... :chuckle: :chuckle:
ok back to your debate....
you do realize anyone can become a master hunter but you have to be willing to volunteer your time you know give back to the sport... :dunno:
Post by: h20hunter on September 18, 2014, 09:51:28 AM
Post by: wrangler on September 18, 2014, 09:56:20 PM
You stop it right now there Run....don't be going out and suggesting outlandish options about how to get involved, particapate, or even as other members have been out of line suggesting...attending a meeting to discuss and debate. We will have no fact finding, proof providing...only ranting about how HIS elk and HIS towns elk are being particle transported by hordes of Klingon master hunters from public to private land for their devilish deeds!
Unless I'm reading your post wrong (which is possible since it reads like it was written by a 2 year old) he did attend the meeting? I'm curious to follow this for the next few months as it seems he has some fairly strong convictions regarding this topic. I wouldn't be surprised if something actually comes of this. There are a lot of unsavory things going on in North Bend regarding the elk and there has been for quite some time now, the ahe guys are just a small part of it. Now whether or not anything can proven is another story. We shall see... good luck on your quest bbk!
Post by: stevemiller on September 18, 2014, 11:25:02 PM
Post by: Little Dave on September 18, 2014, 11:31:02 PM
The exam:
A true master of hunting will be able to answer about 20% of the exam just fine without studying. He will be able to know were glands are on certain critters, which bird tastes better than another, and so forth. A book is provided to help others come up to speed on this trivia before taking the test. Our hero had better study the other stuff that's provided or get a failing grade..
On a small slip of paper tucked in the package is the secret to the next 20% of the exam. It says something like the permit candidate needs to know the state laws and regulations related to hunting. This means all laws and the trivial stuff like who appoints whom and when. Another 20% of the exam is about safety and conservation, similar to the questions that are in the hunter education courses.
Much of the rest of the exam is about the material in Dr. Norton's book. The state provided me paperback copy of that book and assumed that I would read it before the exam. The general theme is ponderings about the phases a hunter goes through and the hunter/landowner relationship, conservation history and so forth.
Conclusion:
So it is a mastery of selective trivia, ability to hit a dessert-sized paper plate with an arrow at 30yds or using a rifle at 100yds, afford $50 to confirm no violations, do some volunteer work on the side for a few days, attend a seminar, and sign a pledge that makes one a Master Hunter Permit Program member. Since an ordinary hunter can get a license even if he cannot hit the side of a barn, I suppose this is an elevation of credentials of sorts, but using the term "master" is at best a gross exaggeration.
Post by: danderson on September 19, 2014, 06:12:25 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 19, 2014, 06:27:41 AM
Post by: Odell on September 19, 2014, 07:04:27 AM
Sure, the master hunter exam... it helps a discussion to know what this is about. It's one of the reasons I figure it is possible to get a guy with a desk job and completely unfamiliar with the woods a Master Hunter Permit Program certificate in one month or less.
The exam:
A true master of hunting will be able to answer about 20% of the exam just fine without studying. He will be able to know were glands are on certain critters, which bird tastes better than another, and so forth. A book is provided to help others come up to speed on this trivia before taking the test. Our hero had better study the other stuff that's provided or get a failing grade..
On a small slip of paper tucked in the package is the secret to the next 20% of the exam. It says something like the permit candidate needs to know the state laws and regulations related to hunting. This means all laws and the trivial stuff like who appoints whom and when. Another 20% of the exam is about safety and conservation, similar to the questions that are in the hunter education courses.
Much of the rest of the exam is about the material in Dr. Norton's book. The state provided me paperback copy of that book and assumed that I would read it before the exam. The general theme is ponderings about the phases a hunter goes through and the hunter/landowner relationship, conservation history and so forth.
Conclusion:
So it is a mastery of selective trivia, ability to hit a dessert-sized paper plate with an arrow at 30yds or using a rifle at 100yds, afford $50 to confirm no violations, do some volunteer work on the side for a few days, attend a seminar, and sign a pledge that makes one a Master Hunter Permit Program member. Since an ordinary hunter can get a license even if he cannot hit the side of a barn, I suppose this is an elevation of credentials of sorts, but using the term "master" is at best a gross exaggeration.
Yeah but what's your point? The state needed a way to find somewhat dedicated and responsible hunters to help with damage control hunts so they came up with this certification. The test IS hard, the volunteer hours required are significant. The only thing I'd like them to change is the marksmen test, it should be witnessed by them but that takes a lot of time and they aren't going to do that.
No one is going around like Dwight Shrute claiming Assistant Regional Manager with their Master Hunter status. Nobody thinks it makes them a 'master' of anything. Its just a name. People complaining about the name of the program are probably the same people complaining that iTunes gave them a free U2 album last week.
Post by: Little Dave on September 19, 2014, 09:04:42 AM
An accurate name for the program might be "Volunteer Hunter" or "Certified Hunter" but not "Master Hunter"
Post by: Little Dave on September 19, 2014, 09:17:11 AM
Post by: Little Dave on September 19, 2014, 09:30:18 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 19, 2014, 09:44:44 AM
The interesting part of this for me is that the basis for the program is ethics, but the very name of the program is an unethical deception of trust between the state, the hunter, and the landowner. The requirements for the program as they are do not meet the same kind of expectation someone might have for other types of masters like "master degree" or "master captain" in painting "the masters"
An accurate name for the program might be "Volunteer Hunter" or "Certified Hunter" but not "Master Hunter"
What a crock, Dave, all due respects. You're getting hung up on if the name as unethical, really? The term is reflective only of the extra work and the clean history required to attain the certification and that's all. It's indicative of someone going beyond the normal steps needed to be a hunter, that's all. It's also the same term used for that same course by almost all western states. And in light of the requirements to be a regular hunter, it is an advanced education. Hunter education might take an adult a week or two to pass at the very most. If someone works diligently on the MH course, it'll take them a minimum of a couple of months unless they don't have a day job or other responsibilities. In addition, as has been pointed out, MHs have to prove shooting proficiency, another thing not required of regular licensed hunters.
As far as deception is concerned, there's no deception. The land owners are very clear about with whom they're dealing. If a Master Hunter uses the guidelines that he's been told are the basis for our ethical behavior, both in the field and out, the title accurate as far as the certified hunter having and using those guidelines. And, if the WDFW or a hunt coordinator gives instructions which end up in a disaster (like Skagit many years ago), that's not the fault of the MH. It's the fault of the administration and their planning. The program itself is a very good one. Are there people with the MH certification who aren't always ethical? Of course there are. However, the program, especially in the last 5 years, has been concentrating on weeding out those who don't hold the ethics of their actions with high importance.
If you don't like the program (or in your case, the name of the program), don't participate and let the WDFW know about your concerns and do something positive to affect change in something you think is wrong. Otherwise, either enroll in the program and benefit from the many facets of it, or leave your sour grapes at the produce market. But at the very least, don't lay what you see as the downsides of the program at the feet of those who've done and continue to do the work. Make sure you're bringing your complaints to the right ears and aiming them at the right people.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 19, 2014, 09:49:22 AM
Some of the volunteers in the Master Hunter program do so for the spirit of volunteering. If the program didn't exist, they would still be doing a lot of the same kind of volunteer work. Some of the volunteers in the Master Hunter program are mainly interested in the opportunities to apply to hunts like the one on in North Bend for what seems like a sure thing meat hunt. If it were not for the opportunity of special hunts, it is unlikely that they would go through the work of applying for the program.
I'm glad to see that at least we're getting away from the broad strokes by using "some". Again, over the last 5 years, the emphasis of the program has been more and more about ethics, volunteerism, mentoring, interaction with non-hunters; those things important for shining a good light on hunting in general. There are still people who go through this just to get extra tag opportunities, but I think those people are less and less and the administration takes a hard view of those whose actions shed a bad light on the program, and on hunting in general.
Post by: stevemiller on September 19, 2014, 01:14:33 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 19, 2014, 01:29:04 PM
When was the last option changed?I thought it said leave the season alone now it says im a MH leave my season alone.I vote leave it alone but im not a MH yet.Deception comes to mind.
LMAO, I just saw that to. Someone is being a big cry baby. Take his toys and go home.
Post by: Goldeneye on September 19, 2014, 01:33:23 PM
When was the last option changed?I thought it said leave the season alone now it says im a MH leave my season alone.I vote leave it alone but im not a MH yet.Deception comes to mind.
I believe he knows he has been proven wrong on this thread so he's trying to twist the poll even more to sway his argument footing. Too late...
Post by: h20hunter on September 19, 2014, 01:44:53 PM
Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: stevemiller on September 19, 2014, 01:51:23 PM
Post by: h20hunter on September 19, 2014, 02:02:13 PM
Yes, it is childish. However, since the OP will only rant and not engage in meaningfull discussion what is one to do. Happy Friday folks.
Post by: Bob33 on September 19, 2014, 02:13:30 PM
Post by: returnofsid on September 19, 2014, 05:37:51 PM
When was the last option changed?I thought it said leave the season alone now it says im a MH leave my season alone.I vote leave it alone but im not a MH yet.Deception comes to mind.
Once the OP realized that the general consensus wasn't going as he'd planned, he edited the Poll Options to best suite his ideas of entitlement...I'm not surprised at all...
The OP obviously feels as if ANYONE who disagrees with his very entitled opinion, MUST be a Master Hunter. Changing the Poll Option, furthers his cause. I strongly disagree with the OP, and my vote reflects that, yet I'm not, nor ever have been, a Master Hunter, even if one in my own mind...lol
Post by: bullfisher on September 19, 2014, 08:01:15 PM
I see 60% of the poll voting for some kind of change. :dunno:
Post by: Little Dave on September 21, 2014, 06:50:09 PM
I've worked with a number of permit holders on a number of volunteer projects, even working with the state and private groups to create projects which qualify for volunteer hours. Knowing how important this program is to the participants, it can be abused so easily. This is the concern that I am leaving at the feet of my peers.
In a nutshell, I would rather see the damage mitigation in North Bend managed collaboratively with local hunters... and at no time operated like a poaching ring where the permit holder is moving from property to property looking for an opportunity.
Post by: billythekidrock on September 21, 2014, 06:53:16 PM
Dang...lots of cry babies on here besides the OP.
I see 60% of the poll voting for some kind of change. :dunno:
The poll verbiage has been changed several times.
Post by: Bob33 on September 21, 2014, 06:56:54 PM
In a nutshell, I would rather see the damage mitigation in North Bend managed collaboratively with local hunters.i believe a state managed program that differentiates and treats hunters differently based on geographical location would not be accepted as legal.
Post by: Little Dave on September 21, 2014, 09:20:35 PM
What might be possible is to create a process for hunters to register hunter/landowner agreements with the state prior to the draw, then form a special draw for that pool of hunters. The master hunter damage control hunt dates could be established before and after the general seasons using that model. As it is, the master hunter season runs concurrent with the general seasons and it causes needless friction and these sportsmanship issues that are of no concern to the landowners, the biologists, tribes, or the state.
When I was coordinator for this program a few years ago, a common concern from landowners was that they wanted to know who was going to be on their property. A description of the master hunter qualifications was helpful, but not enough. Some outright refused to place anyone on their property that they did not know, particularly someone from outside of the valley. Often, they'd like to meet the hunter in person prior to the hunt, they wanted all their neighbors to be informed and I did the work to make that happen. I did the best I could to honor the wishes of the general season hunters and segregate the master hunter assignments so that there was a bye week prior to the general hunting seasons and no assignments during the general hunting seasons.
A few of the permit holders that were on my list that year had been drawn for the permit in a prior season and worked with some other coordinator. They said that the way it was done before is that they were allowed to move between all of the properties in the portfolio and take an elk if there was an opportunity. Although this may have been an effective method of filling tags and meeting quota, I did not see it as the right image for the program as this activity of "unknown vehicle driving around" is suspicious for local residents already wary of burglary, drug exchanges, and poaching. Instead, I placed hunters on specific properties to be more inconspicuous and not in contention with other hunting that I was aware of. There was an additional problem with one of the golf course properties. The golf course did not want any hunters placed there at all. They had issues with the program from the prior year and dodged my calls for weeks. I worked with them, met their terms and restored access to the program for that season.
I don't know who is coordinating the hunt this year, but it can give some insight to the work that happens behind the scenes, the potential risk to the image of the program, and what could be done to make this work for everyone.
Post by: bigtex on September 21, 2014, 10:23:41 PM
Woodswalker, if you read my post I stated that one of the issues up for change in 2015 is the MH not being allowed to hunt public land because the landowners are getting angry because the MH are pushing the elk onto there land that once stayed on wdfw lands and DNR land. Causing damage to crops. The homeowners are also getting fed up with MH asking to hunt elk they just pushed onto there land. I know exactly what is going on and it sucks for everyoneWhat "WDFW land" were these elk on? The only "WDFW land" in 460 are boat launch sites and the pheasant release sites near Duvall, not exactly near North Bend.
As far as DNR land goes most of the DNR land in the area is on Mt. Si (not exactly great elk habitat except for the few lowland parcels, mountain goat OK). Other then that there is DNR land south of I-90 and up the Middle Fork.
In reality the only "public" land the elk could be on in this area are King County lands which are closed to hunting. There are also a good amount of elk on the Hancock lands.
Land management map for this area: http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/amp_rec_snoqualmie_rec_plan_vicinity_map.pdf (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/amp_rec_snoqualmie_rec_plan_vicinity_map.pdf)