Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Archery Gear => Topic started by: kingsalmonkllr77 on December 11, 2008, 07:39:17 PM

Title: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on December 11, 2008, 07:39:17 PM: In july I switched from shooting the field points and went to my broadheads. I had a dozen gold tip expeditions uncut from last year and took them in to be cut. I got home tuned the broadheads and out of 12 arrows only 7 would fly straight. I held out the other 5 and checked the tune and they were perfect. After heading to the archery shop to make sure my bow was still tuned I had the shop owner check the tune on the 5 and he agreed they were perfect and should shoot. I went back out and shot them again and had the same results. After 2 weeks of screwing with them (refletching, new inserts, different broadhead, everything) it didn't get any better. I spun the arrow at the nock end and the arrow was no where near straight and I just wondered if anyone else has had this problem. I switched to the easton axis nano's and have no complaints.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 12, 2008, 07:55:55 PM: Thats a shock! wait.. no its not.... I recall saying somewhere Gt suck from research I have done with them and axis are by far the best.. also from tests.. this basically makes me feel good.. I was a "know it all" when I stated this before.. this should reiterate my statements...
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Blacktail killer on December 12, 2008, 08:02:52 PM: I ALSO HAVE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH GOLD TIPS AND NO LONGER SHOOT THEM HOW EVER THEY CAN BE FIXED IF WHEN YOU CUT YOUR ARROWS YOU CUT SOME OFF BOTH SIDES HOPE IT HELPS TRAVIS. I LIKE CARBON EXPRESS WEIGHT FORWARD SHAFTS, OR EASTON
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: MuleySniper on December 12, 2008, 09:16:01 PM: What do a dozen Axis arrows run? Ive shot GT's for the last 4 or 5 years and have had good luck with them. Ya never know though, I might have to try something different next time. The price is right for the GT's though too.
MS
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Todd_ID on December 12, 2008, 11:50:23 PM: It wasn't all that long ago that the Gold Tips were some of the best arrows out there (XT Hunters included). They kept a very tight control on manufacturing, and that produced a very tight arrow. Since they moved their production to Mexico, set up brand new machinery, and batch inspect them with lasers the quality went downhill instantly, just like the price. I have a few old Gold Tips that are basically perfect on my spine checker, and a new dozen from Mexico that I bought because the price was so low, but they aren't really even fit for my wife and kids to use confidently. My 7 year old uses them in her longbow now until they get lost in the weeds, and that's about all they're good for.

The consistency of spine was far enough off (.025" or .030" in the dozen, and that's a bunch) that there was no way I was going to be able to rule out arrow flaws in grouping problems, so they were not for me. The spine consistency is more critical when shooting broadheads than straightness or weight tolerances, because to achieve a good broadhead group each arrow must flex in the same manner as the arrow begins its flight; the broadheads will steer to different points of impact if the flexing (called dynamic spine) is inconsistent. This means field points may fly good, but broadheads won't group at all.

For consistency in spine I've found that Carbon Express and Easton Axis seem to be about the best right now. My Axis arrows are within about .004", and they group broadheads just as well as field points. My wife's Carbon Express Cheetahs are even better at about .002", but she hasn't taken to hunting, yet, so she hasn't tried grouping broadheads, but I already know the results would be good.

All that said.... Gold Tips will be fine if you're hunting Roosevelt Elk and Blacktails in areas where a long shot will be 30 yards. However, hunting sage brush muleys with 50 yards being a close shot is probably not a good place to accept the possiblity that the arrow your flinging might not be up to par. Plus, when I buy a dozen arrows I fully expect to get twelve shootable arrows and not 4 or 5 that don't group with the rest.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 13, 2008, 12:17:36 AM: well said ! :yeah:
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on December 14, 2008, 12:41:01 PM: I paid 98.00 for the nano's with the 2" high profile fletchings and wish I would have found this site to read hoytstaffshooter's review when he posted. It would have saved me alot of time and effort but I did learn alot with the problem I was having and I will never shoot gt's again. The weight forward's were my first choice but I spent alot on my new bow and wanted to save a little money on arrows.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: SCRUBS on December 14, 2008, 01:03:46 PM: Quote from: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 12, 2008, 07:55:55 PM
Thats a shock! wait.. no its not.... I recall saying somewhere Gt suck from research I have done with them and axis are by far the best.. also from tests.. this basically makes me feel good.. I was a "know it all" when I stated this before.. this should reiterate my statements...

I knew i got under your skin :P :IBCOOL: I never called you a know it all, i was looking for information like Todd_ID produced, pretty simple .
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 14, 2008, 01:11:59 PM: not under my skin at all, if you did the tests I did/done and spent as much time as I do in the archery industry, and knew you were right as I did, then it really wouldnt bother you someone that is not as experienced as you made ignorant sounding statements ;) but if that was your intent you can keep trying lol obviously I dont know you or your history, im making a assumption and have no problem admiting that.. and once again GT are horrible and axis IMO are the best
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: SCRUBS on December 14, 2008, 01:13:36 PM: Quote from: Todd_ID on December 12, 2008, 11:50:23 PM
It wasn't all that long ago that the Gold Tips were some of the best arrows out there (XT Hunters included). They kept a very tight control on manufacturing, and that produced a very tight arrow. Since they moved their production to Mexico, set up brand new machinery, and batch inspect them with lasers the quality went downhill instantly, just like the price. I have a few old Gold Tips that are basically perfect on my spine checker, and a new dozen from Mexico that I bought because the price was so low, but they aren't really even fit for my wife and kids to use confidently. My 7 year old uses them in her longbow now until they get lost in the weeds, and that's about all they're good for.

The consistency of spine was far enough off (.025" or .030" in the dozen, and that's a bunch) that there was no way I was going to be able to rule out arrow flaws in grouping problems, so they were not for me. The spine consistency is more critical when shooting broadheads than straightness or weight tolerances, because to achieve a good broadhead group each arrow must flex in the same manner as the arrow begins its flight; the broadheads will steer to different points of impact if the flexing (called dynamic spine) is inconsistent. This means field points may fly good, but broadheads won't group at all.

For consistency in spine I've found that Carbon Express and Easton Axis seem to be about the best right now. My Axis arrows are within about .004", and they group broadheads just as well as field points. My wife's Carbon Express Cheetahs are even better at about .002", but she hasn't taken to hunting, yet, so she hasn't tried grouping broadheads, but I already know the results would be good.

All that said.... Gold Tips will be fine if you're hunting Roosevelt Elk and Blacktails in areas where a long shot will be 30 yards. However, hunting sage brush muleys with 50 yards being a close shot is probably not a good place to accept the possiblity that the arrow your flinging might not be up to par. Plus, when I buy a dozen arrows I fully expect to get twelve shootable arrows and not 4 or 5 that don't group with the rest.

Thanks for the great info Todd! Have you tested the Pro Hunters? If so How did they come out? I was thinking about switching to them, if i stay with archery. I have read elsewhere that they were pretty consistant with their spine and straightness???????
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: SCRUBS on December 14, 2008, 01:14:57 PM: Quote from: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 14, 2008, 01:11:59 PM
not under my skin at all, if you did the tests I did/done and spent as much time as I do in the archery industry, and knew you were right as I did, then it really wouldnt bother you someone that is not as experienced as you made ignorant sounding statements ;) but if that was your intent you can keep trying lol obviously I dont know you or your history, im making a assumption and have no problem admiting that.. and once again GT are horrible and axis IMO are the best

If i didn`t get under your skin you wouldn`t have even brought it back up!!! LOL. :chuckle::IBCOOL: I didn`t make a statement, i asked a question :chuckle: Yes indeed, you are assuming alot, but coming from you, not much of a surprise there ;)
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: dbllunger on December 15, 2008, 07:17:52 PM: I shoot 7595 XT's, and they are very accurate. I don't know what is the best arrow, broadhead, release, sight, or butt wipe. Maybe there are more accurate hunting arrows availabe, but I am going on my fourth deer with the same arrow. I just know they shoot great for me, and I seldom shoot at 30yds. Take everyones experiences try your own, and go with what works for you.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Todd_ID on December 15, 2008, 09:39:35 PM: Quote from: CARBON-ARCH on December 14, 2008, 01:13:36 PM
Thanks for the great info Todd! Have you tested the Pro Hunters? If so How did they come out? I was thinking about switching to them, if i stay with archery. I have read elsewhere that they were pretty consistant with their spine and straightness???????

Haven't put the Pro Hunters through any paces, so I can't comment on them, sorry.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 16, 2008, 12:07:33 AM: If i didn`t get under your skin you wouldn`t have even brought it back up!!! LOL. I didn`t make a statement, i asked a question Yes indeed, you are assuming alot, but coming from you, not much of a surprise there

you know me, I like to keep things fun
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: GoldTip on December 16, 2008, 08:57:10 AM: I've shot Goldtip arrows since they were the first arrow with internal components, when I first started shooting them they were not even available in this state and I ordered them directly from Goldtip, this was possible due to one of my friends in the archery industry at the time. This was probably 1994ish. Initially I had many problems with them being straight, probably 5 out of a dozen would be intolerable for long range shooting or for 3d competition, I would send back the 5 and get new ones shipped to me. They improved many things and since probably 1998 I have had no problems with goldtip arrows. I do now shoot the pro-hunters and have killed quite a few animals with them. In the mid to late 90's I was pretty fair on a 3d course as well. They shoot just fine and I would challenge anyone to shoot a hand held bow as well as an arrow can shoot. It comes down to what you have the confidence in, period. If it's not in Goldtips, then you won't shoot them well, if it's not in the Axis, then you won't shoot them well either, doesn't matter what the tolerance's are. Tune your arrows correctly and shoot the ones you have confidence in.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2008, 09:23:31 AM: Thus where your name came from, right
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: GoldTip on December 16, 2008, 11:26:45 AM: Yep, hence the name.
Title: Re: Gold tip expedition, hunter 7595 problems
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 16, 2008, 12:15:25 PM: something tells me that if you buy the lowest level of tolerance for straightness (.oo6) from any brand the results will be less than ideal. thats what the expedition hunters are. the pro are as straight as any other .oo1 tolerance arrow. the xt hunters are in between, .oo3.