Post by: huntandjeep on October 04, 2014, 07:27:35 PM
Post by: seakev on October 04, 2014, 07:50:56 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on October 04, 2014, 08:09:54 PM
I'm getting ready to work up a load using the 168gr hunting (28570). Graf's has them in stock.
Graf's ?
Post by: jasnt on October 04, 2014, 08:20:45 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on October 04, 2014, 08:55:35 PM
Post by: jasnt on October 04, 2014, 09:55:40 PM
I think the only difference is the label. I have wondered- same grain, same bc, different jacket thickness. I can't process it. How can weight and bc be the same if jacket thickness different.as a matter of fact they do not weigh the same. Check them you will see!
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 04, 2014, 10:03:09 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on October 04, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
I think the only difference is the label. I have wondered- same grain, same bc, different jacket thickness. I can't process it. How can weight and bc be the same if jacket thickness different.as a matter of fact they do not weigh the same. Check them you will see!
So a 168 grain vld target is not the same weight as a 168 grain vld hunting?
Post by: jasnt on October 04, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 04, 2014, 10:21:30 PM
I'm getting ready to work up a load using the 168gr hunting (28570). Graf's has them in stock.
Graf's ?
He means Graf and Sons. Here you go. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/25384 (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/25384)
Post by: wastickslinger on October 04, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
Still pretty sure the only difference is the label
Post by: bobcat on October 04, 2014, 11:10:43 PM
Quote
What is the difference between your bullet types? (Target/Tactical/Varmint/Hunting)
Posted March 6, 2013
Our Target and Tactical bullets are designed with thicker jackets that withstand more stress before bullet degradation occurs. A target or tactical shooter generally fires multiple rounds in a row, causing the barrel to heat up and more stress on bullet. To keep performance high, we give these bullets thicker jackets.
Our Varmint and Hunting bullets have slightly thinner jackets. This means that the bullet will expand more effectively, creating a large wound cavity that devastates the animal using hydrostatic shock. Hunters generally shoot 1-3 bullets at a time, so bullet degradation is not as much of a concern as expansion.
Read more here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/ (http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/)
Post by: wastickslinger on October 05, 2014, 12:17:22 AM
From the Berger website:QuoteWhat is the difference between your bullet types? (Target/Tactical/Varmint/Hunting)
Posted March 6, 2013
Our Target and Tactical bullets are designed with thicker jackets that withstand more stress before bullet degradation occurs. A target or tactical shooter generally fires multiple rounds in a row, causing the barrel to heat up and more stress on bullet. To keep performance high, we give these bullets thicker jackets.
Our Varmint and Hunting bullets have slightly thinner jackets. This means that the bullet will expand more effectively, creating a large wound cavity that devastates the animal using hydrostatic shock. Hunters generally shoot 1-3 bullets at a time, so bullet degradation is not as much of a concern as expansion.
Read more here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/ (http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/)
I understand they say one has a thicker jacket. The question is how do you change jacket thickness, add/take away two different types of metals, and then end up the same total weight and bc? Maybe I'm just tired but it doesn't add up. Take away copper, add lead, bullet still same size/weight/bc?
Post by: bobcat on October 05, 2014, 08:25:56 AM
Post by: jasnt on October 05, 2014, 08:58:49 AM
From the Berger website:QuoteWhat is the difference between your bullet types? (Target/Tactical/Varmint/Hunting)
Posted March 6, 2013
Our Target and Tactical bullets are designed with thicker jackets that withstand more stress before bullet degradation occurs. A target or tactical shooter generally fires multiple rounds in a row, causing the barrel to heat up and more stress on bullet. To keep performance high, we give these bullets thicker jackets.
Our Varmint and Hunting bullets have slightly thinner jackets. This means that the bullet will expand more effectively, creating a large wound cavity that devastates the animal using hydrostatic shock. Hunters generally shoot 1-3 bullets at a time, so bullet degradation is not as much of a concern as expansion.
Read more here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/ (http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/)
I understand they say one has a thicker jacket. The question is how do you change jacket thickness, add/take away two different types of metals, and then end up the same total weight and bc? Maybe I'm just tired but it doesn't add up. Take away copper, add lead, bullet still same size/weight/bc?
like I said early they are not the same! I weight sort all my bullets along with bearing surface measurement. They are slightly different. Not alot but they are. Some are longer some shorter. None of this makes any difference till your shooting over 1000 yards. Then these tiny differences will start to show.
Post by: wastickslinger on October 05, 2014, 09:13:36 AM
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
Post by: jasnt on October 05, 2014, 09:32:25 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 05, 2014, 09:46:05 AM
Well at 75 yards a 190 grain hunting vld sure acted like garbage on my bull. 3 well placed shots, bull never flinched for the first 2, I think on the third he tipped over from all the muzzle blast. Not one exit. All 3 bullets tuned to shrapnel on impact. A 12 gauge would have been better.
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
That's what they are designed to do, and my experience with them as well.
Post by: wastickslinger on October 05, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
I like bullet weight retention. The energy should carry farther than the hide on the entrance. A good hunting bullet will stay together and break bones. I will stick with accubonds.Well at 75 yards a 190 grain hunting vld sure acted like garbage on my bull. 3 well placed shots, bull never flinched for the first 2, I think on the third he tipped over from all the muzzle blast. Not one exit. All 3 bullets tuned to shrapnel on impact. A 12 gauge would have been better.
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
That's what they are designed to do, and my experience with them as well.
Post by: bobcat on October 05, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on October 05, 2014, 01:13:30 PM
Well at 75 yards a 190 grain hunting vld sure acted like garbage on my bull. 3 well placed shots, bull never flinched for the first 2, I think on the third he tipped over from all the muzzle blast. Not one exit. All 3 bullets tuned to shrapnel on impact. A 12 gauge would have been better.
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
Were you using the 300 Ultra you have for sale in the marketplace?
Post by: jasnt on October 05, 2014, 02:11:58 PM
Well at 75 yards a 190 grain hunting vld sure acted like garbage on my bull. 3 well placed shots, bull never flinched for the first 2, I think on the third he tipped over from all the muzzle blast. Not one exit. All 3 bullets tuned to shrapnel on impact. A 12 gauge would have been better.
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
Were you using the 300 Ultra you have for sale in the marketplace?
that's what I was wondering. Could be too much speed at that range. The young bear I shot last year I had used my 300win mag and a 185 vld. Tho even at 40 yards it punched threw and threw leaving a massive trama trail in its wake. Punching threw bone on both sides. This years bear was big fat sow and I shot it with my 243. And 105gr vld. It also went threw and threw. Maybe its just not a good round for busting elk shoulders. But I'm confident shooting bergers and it will be what I use in my elk rifle tho I'd rather destroy the vitals than a good elk shoulder.
I see this debate alot with bergers most agrea they shoot great but some guys have a bad experience and decided they hate 'em others rave about there performance.
I think its all about your style. Some guys prefer to bust the shoulders so its drt, others prefer a quartering away shot.
ime the guys not happy with Berger vlds love the acubonds.
different styles of bullets for different styles of hunting.
Post by: wastickslinger on October 05, 2014, 02:35:20 PM
Well at 75 yards a 190 grain hunting vld sure acted like garbage on my bull. 3 well placed shots, bull never flinched for the first 2, I think on the third he tipped over from all the muzzle blast. Not one exit. All 3 bullets tuned to shrapnel on impact. A 12 gauge would have been better.
Sorry fir the thread jack. Just providing some real life experience with the hunting vld.
Were you using the 300 Ultra you have for sale in the marketplace?
Yes I was referring to my rum that's for sale. That's not why it's for sale though.
Post by: Crunchy on October 05, 2014, 02:51:08 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on October 05, 2014, 05:32:31 PM
Post by: actionshooter on October 05, 2014, 07:47:35 PM
Guess I'll have to pick a box up and try them out. I'm not looking at using them for hunting . Just looking for a more readily available option for more trigger time at longer ranges. I've had a box of the hunting bullets on backorder for 6 months now and I'm down to 20 left on the first box so haven't been shooting as much as I want.I won a box of 500 Berger Hunting VLDs 6 months ago and am still waiting on them.
Been paying attention to this, and Its seems everytime there is a thread about the Berger Hunting bullets it goes the same, some guys say they are fine and some say they are horrible, guess I will just have to find out myself.
Post by: huntandjeep on October 06, 2014, 03:03:35 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on October 06, 2014, 03:20:28 PM
OK so I just got off the phone with my smith and he said he's cut apart 100's of the targets and hunting Bergers and he couldn't see a visual difference. He told me hes used the targets to work up loads and then switched to the hunting with no change needed. Also got an email this morning saying my backordered box has shipped :tup:
Doesn't surprise me. It's the same bullet in a different color box.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 06, 2014, 03:22:07 PM
Post by: kentrek on October 06, 2014, 03:51:49 PM
Don't quote me tho
Both the hunting and target bullets have killed thousands of elk
Post by: sirmissalot on October 06, 2014, 03:52:44 PM
This is from the opposite shoulder of a bear, burried in its hide after it busted both shoulders. What used to be a 190 grain bullet fired from 300 yards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F14%2F10%2F06%2F13c6a2443a576b9bc227705410144ded.jpg&hash=756e4b8a213d8e8324b0f75018a3019a9398c236)
I'm more of a weight retention guy, usually prefer accubond type performance. I know this thread is about Bergers but I think this goes along with the subject of fragmenting bullets.
Post by: huntandjeep on October 06, 2014, 05:14:04 PM
. That's what John Porter told my guy when he questioned him about it.OK so I just got off the phone with my smith and he said he's cut apart 100's of the targets and hunting Bergers and he couldn't see a visual difference. He told me hes used the targets to work up loads and then switched to the hunting with no change needed. Also got an email this morning saying my backordered box has shipped :tup:
Doesn't surprise me. It's the same bullet in a different color box.
Post by: yorketransport on October 06, 2014, 08:19:06 PM
OK so I just got off the phone with my smith and he said he's cut apart 100's of the targets and hunting Bergers and he couldn't see a visual difference. He told me hes used the targets to work up loads and then switched to the hunting with no change needed. Also got an email this morning saying my backordered box has shipped :tup:
Doesn't surprise me. It's the same bullet in a different color box.
In my experience this isn't the case. I've weighed both Target and Hunting VLDs of the same weight in .308 and .284 caliber and they are different. The weights are slightly different and the length from base to ogive is slightly different (but consistently different) between the two styles as well. I have to adjust my seating depth when I switch between the two.
Neither is my first choice for a hunting bullet, but I send a lot of Bergers down range when target shooting and they're hard to beat. The 168 VLD Hunting is my go to bullet in the 284 Win Striker. I'm going to try the 168 Matrix though just because they're a little easier to get. I have a box sitting here for when I get time.
Andrew
Post by: jasnt on October 06, 2014, 08:49:40 PM
OK so I just got off the phone with my smith and he said he's cut apart 100's of the targets and hunting Bergers and he couldn't see a visual difference. He told me hes used the targets to work up loads and then switched to the hunting with no change needed. Also got an email this morning saying my backordered box has shipped :tup:
Doesn't surprise me. It's the same bullet in a different color box.
In my experience this isn't the case. I've weighed both Target and Hunting VLDs of the same weight in .308 and .284 caliber and they are different. The weights are slightly different and the length from base to ogive is slightly different (but consistently different) between the two styles as well. I have to adjust my seating depth when I switch between the two.
Andrew
I second that