Post by: 30draw on October 20, 2014, 06:54:12 PM
I read all these posts from people passing on bucks, seeing 20 deer in a day.
and then there is me, in 4 years I have seen 2 does, while driving out headed home. never a bear. never a elk except one cow once.
Am i doing something wrong or hunting in the wrong places? seems i have tried it all, put it to good use, and still dont even see an animal. I know if i dont get something on the ground this year, I will never see another cooperative wife hunting season again.
:bash:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 20, 2014, 06:56:28 PM
Post by: jrebel on October 20, 2014, 07:01:51 PM
Hike in in the dark and Hike out in the dark. People that are afraid of the dark miss most of the animals as they show themselves literally minutes before end of shooting light.
Again not trying to make fun.....Are you color blind? Father in law hunted with another guy for years that could never see deer they were pointing out. Years later he told them he was color blind.....apparently he couldn't see deer to save his life. They attributed it to being color blind. :dunno:
Keep at it, if you give up you will never harvest a deer.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 20, 2014, 07:02:42 PM
Good luck pilgrim.
Post by: buckfvr on October 20, 2014, 07:04:31 PM
Post by: Revwrangler on October 20, 2014, 07:05:02 PM
I've come up empty the last 3 years, and have had some really bad experience in those 3 years, but am far from giving up. I love the hunt!
And I understand the wife issue. My wife doesn't understand why I spend the money on the tag to come home empty, but she understands I need the time, so she is good with it.
Long story short, don't give up, just learn to love putting in the time.
Post by: 30draw on October 20, 2014, 07:05:25 PM
Post by: cooltimber on October 20, 2014, 07:07:17 PM
Post by: Seahawk12 on October 20, 2014, 07:11:52 PM
I could go a decades without harvesting and I would still hunt the next year simply because I am in love with the experience of being on the hunt. Fort a short time each year being a pure predator.
A couple of pieces of advice I would give you are these:
1 ) Ask yourself if the act of hunting is pleasant to you. Looking past the frustration of not filling your tag, Does it give you joy?
If the answer is no.......... :dunno: whats the point?
2 ) Pick an animal. With that info, pick a GMU. Camp often in the summer and plan on scouting a lot. Learn as much of the area as possible. Talk to the locals at the convenience store, delis, restaurants, gas stations, etc. Make that GMU yours.
3 ) Read the stories on this forum and others like it. (because it is full of knowledge, and knowledge is power :tung:)
4 ) Relax your energy levels while in the forest. Like a dog can smell fear, prey animals like deer can smell your tension.
Just my :twocents: Hope it helps.
Post by: jason stevens on October 20, 2014, 07:12:06 PM
Post by: 30draw on October 20, 2014, 07:16:54 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 20, 2014, 07:19:19 PM
Post by: go4itlab on October 20, 2014, 07:24:54 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 20, 2014, 07:26:48 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 20, 2014, 07:27:00 PM
There is a lot of great info above, but I would also add sticking with one spot for a while and learn it like the back of your hand.
Where in Capitol Forest were you? It can be extremely tough to hunt but you should be able to see a few does up there at any time.
Post by: brew on October 20, 2014, 07:30:22 PM
brew
Post by: 30draw on October 20, 2014, 07:32:45 PM
Post by: Tbar on October 20, 2014, 07:36:36 PM
Post by: Pete112288 on October 20, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Post by: brew on October 20, 2014, 07:45:03 PM
brew
Post by: Houndhunter on October 20, 2014, 08:07:40 PM
Post by: HunterStrait on October 20, 2014, 08:23:26 PM
My dad hasn't killed a buck sense 2010 and hasn't given up.
It all depends on the location and the quality of the habitat.
Post by: Humptulips on October 20, 2014, 08:32:24 PM
long time reader, i get as high as i can when i can and I come home empty handed.
:bash:
Maybe that's your problem. :chuckle: :sry:
Seriously though I'm close to 60 and since the first deer I killed as a teen I have only once came home empty handed at the end of the season (broke my leg the day before season opened). What works for me is I walk a lot. I don't believe in sitting and glassing or taking a stand for BTs. Mostly just a slow walk and occasional stops to look over a place. There are a lot less deer then there used to be and especially now there will be a lot of land vacant of deer so you need to cover the real estate.
Watch for areas of tracks and return to those places and eliminate areas with no sign. I like to get away from people as much as possible too.
Eye sight might be a factor as some have mentioned. I never look for deer parts or brown spots. I just look and they usually just seem to appear or I catch some movement. I had a friend though that couldn't see deer for love nor money.
Hope that helps and sorry about the joke at the beginning but it struck me as so funny and couldn't help myself.
Post by: ribka on October 20, 2014, 08:36:40 PM
Hunt in off season taking pics. Research an area with good harvest stats and start scouting when season ends. Learn the area and animal movements .
Post by: hughjorgan on October 20, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
long time reader, finally registered. I started hunting 4 years ago. I have asked a million questions, read 2 books on deer for this region, and tried it all. I am good with a rifle or a bow, i have tried both season, I spot n stalk, sit n wait, sit in the same place for days on end. i have hunted capitol forest, vail area, snoqualmie, naches, greenwater, a little on the east side. I use scent killer, i dont smoke, chew, or any of that, i get as high as i can when i can and glass nonstop, basically all day, i truly get out there and i work my butt off 95% of the time. and I come home empty handed.
I read all these posts from people passing on bucks, seeing 20 deer in a day.
and then there is me, in 4 years I have seen 2 does, while driving out headed home. never a bear. never a elk except one cow once.
Am i doing something wrong or hunting in the wrong places? seems i have tried it all, put it to good use, and still dont even see an animal. I know if i dont get something on the ground this year, I will never see another cooperative wife hunting season again.
:bash:
Are you doing any pre/off season scouting of the areas you plan to hunt?
Post by: fordpowerforever on October 20, 2014, 08:47:52 PM
Post by: Hoythunter on October 20, 2014, 08:52:38 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 20, 2014, 08:54:19 PM
Post by: Westside88 on October 20, 2014, 08:55:56 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on October 20, 2014, 08:56:47 PM
Post by: elkboy on October 20, 2014, 08:57:36 PM
I recommend Louis Terkla's "Hunting Black-Tailed Deer" and Boyd Iverson's "Blacktail Trophy Tactics" for checking all aspects of your hunting method. John Higley's book on northern California blacktails has excellent tips on still-hunting them. With blacktailed deer, you cannot be too careful or too detail-oriented. They are, quite simply, very hard to hunt.
Every time I burn a tag (cook into soup), I use that experience as motivation to become a better hunter over the course of the next year; I think others on here will tell you the same thing. It will make your eventual success all the sweeter. Good luck!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 20, 2014, 09:06:28 PM
Post by: Stein on October 20, 2014, 09:11:54 PM
I recommend Louis Terkla's "Hunting Black-Tailed Deer" and Boyd Iverson's "Blacktail Trophy Tactics" for checking all aspects of your hunting method. John Higley's book on northern California blacktails has excellent tips on still-hunting them. With blacktailed deer, you cannot be too careful or too detail-oriented. They are, quite simply, very hard to hunt.
OP, I have a copy of this book I don't need, PM me if you want it.
Blacktail are not the best animal to start with, they are probably one of the hardest hunts around. Don't give up, hunting is pretty much an all or nothing gig. You can sit around for years and then, BAM, big bull dead before you even know what happened.
Post by: hughjorgan on October 20, 2014, 09:14:44 PM
You're hunting very difficult areas. Look at the harvest reports. Naches is worst in the state. Green water - 653 side? - that unit sucks.
Just stay clear of ellensburg and yakima units. They were hit hard by louse and haven't bounced back. Head to the NE corner there are a ton of white tails over there and usually has the highest deer harvest in the state.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 20, 2014, 09:18:02 PM
Hey,
Yes, went out 3 days this year. Went out for 2 in Eastern WA with just sightings and nothing close. Had a very close encounter with 2 does and a HUGE blacktail buck on the wet side the last weekend of the season. No meat in the freezer. Going to try and get out more for the late season. Never going to give up. Have been frustrated but hunting is in my blood now. It is not about the meat you bring home but the perspective that you gain that makes hunting such an amazing sport. Hope to hunt until my last breath.
Post by: pope on October 20, 2014, 09:27:20 PM
Post by: csaaphill on October 20, 2014, 11:38:37 PM
I know thefeelign though sometimes I hunt hard most the time and no deer or elk.
I got one a couple of years ago though however really lucky because I never scouted the area so was just there at the right time.
THis year scouted some but not like I'd like and nothing so ya.
But I never quit it's in my blood!
Post by: Stumps on October 21, 2014, 01:55:28 AM
Post by: RadSav on October 21, 2014, 05:02:35 AM
Don't take this the wrong way...you may want to get your vision tested. I resisted getting glasses for too long. When the half blind wife started seeing more animals than me I knew it was past time. Spotting animals like I did in my 30's now. Shooting much better too!
When I was growing up I hung out with an old carpenter who also bowhunted. When we would hunt together he would always see more animals than me. He finally said to me, "Quit wasting your time looking for animals where they are not. Focus on where they should be." He wasn't being a smart arse. He was giving me some of the best information he could give. He was right and I started seeing more animals as a result. But, only time in the woods will help you understand where those areas are!
The other bit of information I might add when hunting the westside is keep moving! Cover as much ground as possible until you start seeing animals. No sense in sitting and waiting if there are no animals working where you are. Takes time and miles to find a few good spots. But when you finally find a few, especially ones that haven't been found by 100 other people the game starts changing fast. You start to notice tends in behavior, ground cover, and ultimately you begin to understand deer. That's when the light goes on and you wonder how you could possibly have gone so long without filling a tag.
After a while you no longer will be simply looking/hunting for deer. You will be hunting "Those" deer or even "That" deer. You'll get a fleeting glimpse of a clearcut and say to yourself, "He should be there." and he will be!
The woods are a class room. Every trip should be a learning experience. Don't be the kid in the back of the room that never raises his hand to ask a question. Be the annoying kid in the front row that questions everything! Pay attention, stay positive and never quit. Quitting is for losers :o :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on October 21, 2014, 05:22:38 AM
Post by: rtspring on October 21, 2014, 06:14:10 AM
Hunting is so much more than just killing an animal. Take it all in and enjoy the outdoors...
Rtspring
Post by: Smokepole on October 21, 2014, 06:16:54 AM
Finding a good hunting spot requires either a lot of knowledge or a lot of energy & luck. The best hunters with the broadest skills go scoreless if the deer aren't around.
Study habitat. Learn what the deer like to eat. Discover their travel corridors. Find their watering holes. Deer need food, cover, and water -- and they get into a routine. Don't hunt areas unless is is cut up with sign. Cover a lot of ground until you find fresh sign, and then start hunting.
It sounds like you have the fortitude for deer hunting. Now start hunting smart. Good luck! :twocents:
Post by: coachcw on October 21, 2014, 06:28:11 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 21, 2014, 06:44:14 AM
Post by: h2ofowlr on October 21, 2014, 07:11:06 AM
Post by: Natas5150 on October 21, 2014, 07:13:59 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 21, 2014, 07:25:15 AM
Post by: James on October 21, 2014, 07:29:47 AM
The last three straight years I have put deer in the freezer, the big turnaround for me was location. I finally started finding places with adequate deer numbers to reliably see deer.
Have you thought about buying one of Bearpaws maps?
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 21, 2014, 07:44:00 AM
Post by: Kittman on October 21, 2014, 09:03:52 AM
Post by: 30draw on October 21, 2014, 09:14:02 AM
Post by: Kittman on October 21, 2014, 09:43:28 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 21, 2014, 02:32:26 PM
Post by: Odell on October 21, 2014, 03:12:08 PM
Post by: 260Rem on October 21, 2014, 04:06:45 PM
Stick with it, it's only getting better.
Post by: DP on October 21, 2014, 04:30:29 PM
Post by: csaaphill on October 21, 2014, 04:32:06 PM
It is fusterating I know it's been two years now and going on my third without one and never an elk so ya. When spot and stalk or still hunting it doesn't have to be a race and see how far back in you get some people never go more than a few hundred yards from the road/pickup and score almost every year. SOme wander back in two three miles or more and never see anything so sometimes slowdown is key. IF it was just killing I'd quit for I've gone more years without than with so ya I hnt because I enjoy the outdoors. It's always an amazing feeling to be on top and be windy as all heck but hunt down into the canyon or draw and be pretty calm down in. and notice just how things look down there instead of up on the road. Do you or have you tryed tracking?
and tell if they are fresh or several days old?
Mud and snow can be your best firend if prepared to be out a while.
Post by: billythekidrock on October 21, 2014, 05:23:15 PM
Several times it has been asked "where do you live" and even "where in Capitol Forest" but you either did not see those questions or understand why they were asked.
Knowing where you live and where you have hunted gives us more information on how to help or even if we want to take you out scouting. It does not have to be posted in the open forum but can be sent by pm.
Post by: wooltie on October 23, 2014, 05:37:05 AM
When I was growing up I hung out with an old carpenter who also bowhunted. When we would hunt together he would always see more animals than me. He finally said to me, "Quit wasting your time looking for animals where they are not. Focus on where they should be." He wasn't being a smart arse. He was giving me some of the best information he could give. He was right and I started seeing more animals as a result. But, only time in the woods will help you understand where those areas are!
This is great advice. I'm still way way new at hunting, but I've fished theses areas for salmon and steelhead for over 15 years and my experience learning how to find fish is practically the same.
The idea is to connect with the animals. Same goes with fishing. The secret to successful fishing is first finding where the fish are, then approaching them properly. I fished steelhead for 4 years alongside two veterans (who taught me everything I know) before I actually hooked my first on my own. After that, it was fish on year after year. It took that long to learn how to read the water, to assess the conditions, and to decide to fish "here" and not "there"...to look at a section of river and say "there's gotta be something there"...to walk into a line of guys on the Cascade, the Vedder, the Nooksack, and pull out a fish from under their feet...literally.
So everyday in the woods I'm always assessing my surrounds, land contour, ground cover, types of trees, sign, etc., and trying to draw conclusions, see patterns, to maybe explain why there is sign here, lots of sign there, and nothing over here.
As far as blacktails are concerned, I'm beginning to think that I NEED to seek out areas that are mostly overgrown with large vine maple, plant like, deciduous bushes---the kind that are 5-10 feet tall and leaving you with a 10-15 yard shot--if I'm looking for BT bedded during the day. The kind that are impossible to go through without making a significant amount of noise. That I need to avoid mostly open forests with minimal ground cover that offer 30-40 yard shooting lanes...
It's a process that just takes time unless your fortunately to go with someone whose figured out where they hide, who can say "look for this".
Post by: RadSav on October 23, 2014, 09:01:00 AM
As far as blacktails are concerned, I'm beginning to think that I NEED to seek out areas that are mostly overgrown with large vine maple, plant like, deciduous bushes---the kind that are 5-10 feet tall and leaving you with a 10-15 yard shot--if I'm looking for BT bedded during the day. The kind that are impossible to go through without making a significant amount of noise. That I need to avoid mostly open forests with minimal ground cover that offer 30-40 yard shooting lanes...
It's almost impossible to pick a plant or a condition where all the answers fall in line with blacktail deer. I think that is why so many have difficulty killing good blacktails every year. More than any other animal I have hunted blacktails are weather specific. Benchleg bucks are a little different, but true blacktails change habits as fast as the Western Washington weather in October - literally. Blacktail vegetation changes very little from early archery season and the late buck hunt. Berries come and go, young salal leaves come and go, but their browse changes very little. And unlike muledeer and eastern whitetail, blacktail have A LOT of choices when it comes to browse and cover.
If you pay close attention to successful blacktail hunters you will notice each hunter seems to take bucks in roughly the same vegetation at roughly the same time of year and during roughly the same weather conditions. Some guys always have deer in dry weather and sunny days, the next guy seems to kill his buck every year in a complete downpour in heavy timber while the next guy seems to always have thick necked bucks in the Christmas trees with frost on the ground. Seldom do you see a successful blacktail hunter finding success in all vegetation and during all weather variations. Once we see success we often get tunnel vision and only seek out bucks in that type of bush or terrain narrowing our window for success. While seasons dictate this to a degree it is mostly weather related. There are consistencies in regards to breaks in terraine in all weather conditions, but I find vegetation variations and knowing which ones when are key to success in all seasons.
Take the early velvet season in the first few weeks of archery season. These hot weather soft horned bucks like being close to light limbed leafy cover and often feed in more open areas. They feed in the relative open and escape the heat in the shade not far from their feed routes. Low berry bushes not too far from some acceptable water or cooling source are good bets. If rain comes they abandon the leafy stuff and often just stand in the open until the rain passes. Sometimes if heavy timber is close they stand under heavy canopy with full vision of open spaces.
Later when the rain comes more frequent and their horns get hard they seldom venture into the clearcuts during daylight. They hang tighter to the evergreens and bed on breaks and edges where vision is good. A lot of my best archery bucks were taken at this time of year during this mild rain / drizzly days. Every single one taken in the tall timber within 45 yards of a middle age clearcut edge and usually bedded in fir needles 30 to 40 yards above a vegetation or elevation break. If days get warm the deeper these bucks go into the timber. The more it rains the closer they get to the clearings. Often times venturing into these clearings before night fall when rains are heavy. North facing slopes are good producers this time of year if weather and rains are warm.
As the weather cools, the rut approaches and the rains get heavier these bucks start to become restless. They no longer will stay close to their archery season feed zones. They will no longer sleep all day in the fir needles. I like to call this time of year and weather as the Tall Timber Wandering. They are not in a rush to get anywhere as they are during the rut, but they are too restless to simply bed in the damp dirt. This time of year I like big timber, heavy canopy, low light, scattered browse and vine maples where breaks in the canopy let in more light. I also notice the bucks starting to migrate from benches and breaks to more level ground in anticipation of the upcoming rut.
The pressures of hunting season have started taking their toll as well. Less and less does their timber wandering pass close by open clear cuts. Now if close to more open spaces it's more often Christmas trees instead of low slash and berries. Mornings are colder but afternoon can still warm enough for clear changes in thermal wind direction. One of my favorite things to do this time of year is throw on the pack, the rain gear and my best pair of mucky bottom boots. I'll find an area big enough for a half days hunt. Starting from a road beneath I still hunt, zig zagging my way up and over as thermals are headed down and zig zagging my way down as thermals rise. Once at the truck I have a hot cup of soup and drive to an area I can hunt dropping in from the top. I zigzag my way down and over as the thermals are coming up and I zigzag my way back to the truck once the thermals are working down. I rarely ever step foot in the Christmas trees or alders at this time of year. This is some of the more enjoyable blacktail hunting as you are on high alert at all times with very little waste in the day.
I expect this is getting past the reasonable read time. Perhaps later I will share my approaches to the rut during wet and cold and post rut archery hunts when frosty and stable...if you would like me to.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 23, 2014, 09:08:35 AM
Quote from: RadSav link=topic=163028.msg2151284#msg2151284 date=1414080060
[i
[i
I expect this is getting past the reasonable read time. Perhaps later I will share my approaches to the rut during wet and cold and post rut archery hunts when frosty and stable...if you would like me to.[/i]
I am not alone in saying...share on!
Post by: RadSav on October 23, 2014, 09:16:46 AM
Post by: GBoyd on October 23, 2014, 09:33:58 AM
Did you catch that he mentioned not finding much deer sign? He said that he'd only rarely see poop and no tracks. It sounds like he needs to look in to different areas altogether. Personally, I don't bother to spend time glassing if I'm not at least seeing some evidence that I'm in a good spot for deer.
Post by: RadSav on October 23, 2014, 09:38:39 AM
Did you catch that he mentioned not finding much deer sign? He said that he'd only rarely see poop and no tracks. It sounds like he needs to look in to different areas altogether. Personally, I don't bother to spend time glassing if I'm not at least seeing some evidence that I'm in a good spot for deer.
Western Washington home of the monster clearcut! Can be zero sign at the top of a cut and ripped to pieces at the bottom. I always glass. If I'm there...might as well make the best of it!
My last big buck was taken during rifle season. I don't think I had seen a single track in the two hours prior. Was really just taking a mid day break looking for some Toutle elk to take a picture of. Elk spooked and jumped into some thick brush and out pops a grand daddy timber racker! He didn't know what was going on! About the time he shook loose the confusion there was an Accubond in his heart :o "Preparation meets opportunity" name of the game in blacktail country!!
Post by: sirmissalot on October 23, 2014, 09:57:39 AM
Post by: Tbob on October 23, 2014, 10:42:16 AM
Post by: snowshoes22 on October 23, 2014, 12:03:24 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 23, 2014, 05:12:20 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 23, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
Troll.
That's what I've been starting to think too. None of this makes sense.
Post by: Procomplex on October 23, 2014, 05:56:50 PM
Post by: brew on October 24, 2014, 10:05:11 PM
Post by: tgomez on October 24, 2014, 10:34:09 PM
Post by: lokidog on October 24, 2014, 10:40:15 PM
Troll.
That's what I've been starting to think too. None of this makes sense.
Starting to think that as well, PMed an offer for late season and haven't heard a word back.... :dunno:
Post by: sirmissalot on October 24, 2014, 10:53:03 PM
Pick a couple hobbies and do them right, not 100 hobbies and do them all half ass.
Hunting around here is tough but that's what makes it fun. I hunt out of state nearly every year, in a lot more game rich areas and wouldn't give up hunting blacktails for any of it. The challenge and he reward of finally killing one is well worth it to me, and what I look forward to every year. Seeing two does in four years is either a lie or you just need to get off the internet complaining and get out in the woods and figure it out.
Post by: runamuk on October 25, 2014, 12:08:59 AM
This is my 6th season me 0.... deer are jerks. :chuckle: Now that said only 2 of the 8 days of the season I did not see deer and that was in an area I discovered and the day I discovered it I walked into the middle of about 20 does and a spike. I felt good about the spot so went back the next day saw 0 deer and 0 deer on the drive in, ok I know there are deer give it one more day still a fat zero so, I returned to the area I usually hunt. I saw deer just nothing I can shoot :bash: :bash: In fact I got angry told the universe that I quit and started stomping off the ridge not halfway down bazinga herd of deer with a forked horn and a spike :bash: :bash: :bash:
Next year I am quitting sooner :chuckle:
but seriously if there is sign there are deer it took me the first couple years on the wetside to figure out even how to see those blacktails, once I did I saw lots of deer just never the ones I could shoot.
due to some unforseen issues I have an elk tag and if I can wing it I will hunt 1 day, and I have not seen elk in any of the usual spots so I am really gambling. but I wont have an attack of mood swings to fight off.
and yes it is really hard when a bunch of people who have killed animals keep saying its not about the killing uh huh ok, and actually its not, but it stings.
And I hunt almost entirely alone even if I go with someone we rarely stay together once I am out there alone I usually feel good, the sea of pumpkins has bothered me some I get sick of getting scoped. But otherwise I am slowly seeing the animals they shove around and never saw. I had to hunt around work as well so morning hunts after working evening/nights. One of these years I am gonna actually go to the woods and stay there for even 3-4 days would be awesome.
Post by: b0bbyg on October 25, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
I know some areas well from past hunting and have seen some nice bucks. Need to read the books I have collected to add some more knowledge and then get back at it during the late season.
Post by: billythekidrock on October 25, 2014, 03:41:57 AM
When you spend more time complaining about hunting on the Internet than actually hunting... Maybe you should give up.
Pick a couple hobbies and do them right, not 100 hobbies and do them all half ass.
Hunting around here is tough but that's what makes it fun. I hunt out of state nearly every year, in a lot more game rich areas and wouldn't give up hunting blacktails for any of it. The challenge and he reward of finally killing one is well worth it to me, and what I look forward to every year. Seeing two does in four years is either a lie or you just need to get off the internet complaining and get out in the woods and figure it out.
In this case agree 100%
Post by: jstokes12 on October 25, 2014, 04:38:52 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 25, 2014, 05:07:47 AM
I'm gonna have to throw the B.S. flag on this one....there is absolutely no way anyone can reasonably hunt even a few years in this state without tagging a deer. Yes i have the Vail permit this year but due to Eastern Washington archery elk hunting commitments have not been able to get out into the area until yesterday for modern rifle. I had the permit last year and hunted modern firearm as well. Went out to Vail yesterday morning and by 9:30 (without scouting this year) only relying on last years trips saw 20 deer---3 of which were spikes. hunted yesterday afternoon and saw a 2 pt and a 3 pt in the same clear cut 30 yards apart (budy"s young son couldn't get either of them in his scope). went out this morning and was blanked...dam weather broke to partly sunny and sucked for hunting...went back out around 3 this afternoon and saw deer as soon as the rain started around 4....95% of them were in what I refer to as "nuclear" clearcuts....you know the ones with no green or trees in them---just bleached wood..have absolutely no idea what they are doing in these clearcuts but that is where i've been seeing them...saw 2 more spikes just before dark
I agree and often wonder how, especially westside hunters, can go so many years without notching a tag. I have had seasons where I don't see a "shooter" buck by my standards, but have only had a few seasons in 35 that I did not have some sort of opportunity and that was mostly due to lack of effort on my part.
I get it if you are holding out for a 3pt or better, but I would never suggest that for a new hunter or someone who has not killed a deer. I believe that you need to build on your successes and to most a success in hunting is notching a tag. Killing a legal animal, regardless of size can build confidence and help with learning the skills required to handle the various situations we can encounter in the field.
To go more than a couple years without notching a tag on the westside is a foreign concept to me. Sorry, but it is almost comical to me when I hear it. I try not to judge, but often wonder who, how and why a person can't connect. I understand special circumstances, abilities, disabilities and such, but any able bodied person with an average intelligence, that puts in some effort should be able to scratch up at least one opportunity a year to harvest a legal deer. I think that effort, or lack of, is the most common answer I come up with. I am not saying that that is the case with our members who are unsuccessful, but it could be part of the issue.
Effort can be anything from researching and applying for permits, preseason scouting, internet scouting, trail cams, securing private property, learning sign and what it looks like at all stages of age, learn the human factors for your area and how to use them to your advantage, identifying locations bedding, travel and feeding locations, setting up stands or blinds, finding backup locations and even plan c locations, etc..
It also means putting in real time, record your fav tv show, miss the football game on tv, save vacation time year round and use it during the season, saving money year round and even setting other priorities aside. But it boils down to making hunting THE priority, being in the woods as often as possible during the season and making the most of the time, weather and situation that you have.
If what you are doing is not working, then change it up. Parking at the same gate? Change it up and come in from another direction. Only going out on weekends? Try mid week. Mornings only? Switch to evenings. Hunting with the same people or by yourself? Change it up. Don't carry your rifle on your shoulder while out in the woods. Don't talk with your partner about the football game while hiking in, better yet, hunt by yourself and don't distract yourself with non-hunting thoughts.
Just last night I helped a family friend blood trail her first deer in her first year of hunting. She passed HE this year and has never been in the woods alone before. She put in the effort to change what she could as far as her schedule goes and sat on a cut a few mornings and most evenings until a small buck made a mistake. This was in the CF.
My wife has only gotten out two mornings, but sits on a cut nearly every night for a couple of hours. I have taken her out on the morning trips and I meet her every night as she comes out of the woods. She has seen several does, a small buck and missed a large two point all in the CF this year.
Now my poor nephew... He is 13, in his third deer season and has not gotten off a shot. His first year he had an opportunity at a spike but couldn't get it done. Second year we saw about 25 does and not one buck. We did not make use of a second deer permit for the westside. This year he has a Skook doe permit but we could not find one within 200 yards and don't have the Vail permit. He is getting discouraged, BUT he is not putting in a lot of time. He only gets out a few hours on the weekend. He plays on two football teams and practices 5 nights a week and has two games a week. He is the star of one team and they play for the championship again this weekend.
The reason I mention my nephew is that while he has seen game and has had opportunity, he is ready to give it up because he is not having the level of success that he has in sports. BUT he is not putting the same effort into hunting as he is into sports.
Granted, the three hunters above are not doing it all themselves and have experienced hunters for mentors. Myself or my brother are doing the scouting, but again, everyone is putting in some effort. If you don't have a mentor then you need to put in the effort to find one.
Sure, sometimes you can just walk out in the woods and shoot a buck, but most of the time it requires effort.
Post by: Guy on October 25, 2014, 05:26:58 AM
So it's not at all unusual for a typical hunter to go three years or so between notching a tag. The fact that you've only even SEEN two does in four seasons afield tells me that you're likely hunting in the wrong area. Have to hunt where there's a decent population of game. That's something I learned the hard way, a long time ago. Hours and hours afield, in an area with no game, produces nothing.
Take a hard look at where and when you're going. Take a harder look at the harvest reports. Talk to a game biologist or two... Talk with successful hunters. Heck, read here about where hunters are meeting success. Don't be afraid to drive across the state to some game-rich area...
Best of luck, Guy
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 25, 2014, 09:53:17 AM
Typical WA harvest rate is what, about 25% ?
So it's not at all unusual for a typical hunter to go three years or so between notching a tag. The fact that you've only even SEEN two does in four seasons afield tells me that you're likely hunting in the wrong area. Have to hunt where there's a decent population of game. That's something I learned the hard way, a long time ago. Hours and hours afield, in an area with no game, produces nothing.
Take a hard look at where and when you're going. Take a harder look at the harvest reports. Talk to a game biologist or two... Talk with successful hunters. Heck, read here about where hunters are meeting success. Don't be afraid to drive across the state to some game-rich area...
Best of luck, Guy
I believe archery is more like 11% for elk, 15% for deer. I may be mistaken.
Post by: runamuk on October 25, 2014, 03:12:37 PM
Quote
I'm gonna have to throw the B.S. flag on this one....there is absolutely no way anyone can reasonably hunt even a few years in this state without tagging a deer
Actually make me think I should give up because obviously I am not good enough. Thus I dont deserve to hunt. I am not worthy because I am unable to fill a tag inside 2 years when anyone in this state can and if they dont they are liars.
I have tried I have done the very best I can each year based on my situation and I still have no dead animals to show for any of it. I get frustrated but for some sick unexplainable reason I keep trying but the more times I read how anyone who goes more than a couple years is basically some sort of hunting loser according to some the more I doubt myself.
thanks to those who shared more insight... maybe some year I will hunt with someone who can get me to a better spot until then I will just keep trying and doing the best I can. I like the hills like em a whole lot better when no one else is in em though.
Post by: brew on October 25, 2014, 07:19:23 PM
I have to say for myself reading comments like thishey Runamuk...in no way was i categorizing anyone who hasn't shot a deer in a couple years a "loser"...i just find it extremely hard to believe that someone has seriously hunted 14 years and not shot a deer...i understand that circumstances dictate "success" (whatever your opinion of success is). In my humble opinion if you are serious about hunting/killing deer and your tactics are not working than you should change your tactics. What is the definition of insane ? doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result....QuoteI'm gonna have to throw the B.S. flag on this one....there is absolutely no way anyone can reasonably hunt even a few years in this state without tagging a deer
Actually make me think I should give up because obviously I am not good enough. Thus I dont deserve to hunt. I am not worthy because I am unable to fill a tag inside 2 years when anyone in this state can and if they dont they are liars.
I have tried I have done the very best I can each year based on my situation and I still have no dead animals to show for any of it. I get frustrated but for some sick unexplainable reason I keep trying but the more times I read how anyone who goes more than a couple years is basically some sort of hunting loser according to some the more I doubt myself.
thanks to those who shared more insight... maybe some year I will hunt with someone who can get me to a better spot until then I will just keep trying and doing the best I can. I like the hills like em a whole lot better when no one else is in em though.
Post by: runamuk on October 26, 2014, 01:27:07 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 26, 2014, 01:37:09 AM
I have 6 seasons now 3 on the wetside and 3 on the east technically central. I change what I am doing and still cannot seem to make a forked horn magically turn into a 3 point :bash: and I choked last year on a legal buck because I just was not 100% certain about a fence. So I am not one who never see's deer I see plenty of deer just cannot seem to put it together. Oh well it will happen or it wont.
Maybe something needs to be changed that you aren't aware of? Just swapping regions or from still hunting to blind hunting might not be enough. Maybe a steady mentor that has been successful in your current hunting region with your preferred tactics.
And I wouldn't say you choked on the buck because of the fence. That is hunting and sometimes it doesn't work out.
Post by: runamuk on October 26, 2014, 12:53:02 PM
I have 6 seasons now 3 on the wetside and 3 on the east technically central. I change what I am doing and still cannot seem to make a forked horn magically turn into a 3 point :bash: and I choked last year on a legal buck because I just was not 100% certain about a fence. So I am not one who never see's deer I see plenty of deer just cannot seem to put it together. Oh well it will happen or it wont.
Maybe something needs to be changed that you aren't aware of? Just swapping regions or from still hunting to blind hunting might not be enough. Maybe a steady mentor that has been successful in your current hunting region with your preferred tactics.
And I wouldn't say you choked on the buck because of the fence. That is hunting and sometimes it doesn't work out.
Yes I am sure it would help however my bigger change from married to single has seemed to really make me not a good candidate for finding mentors. Or I am just in a bad area. I did hunt one season with someone locally and it was quite awesome I had a lot of fun but life happens and people get busy.
Its ok was just a rough crash landing on the end of this season, it is harder when you dont have mom's, dad's, grandparents, brothers, uncles, boyfriends, etc to really mentor you.
I also know I did not scout enough the woods got shut down due to fire and when they opened back up it was spend money to scout or save it so I could hunt.
Post by: SeaRun1 on October 26, 2014, 02:18:33 PM
I have 6 seasons now 3 on the wetside and 3 on the east technically central. I change what I am doing and still cannot seem to make a forked horn magically turn into a 3 point :bash: and I choked last year on a legal buck because I just was not 100% certain about a fence. So I am not one who never see's deer I see plenty of deer just cannot seem to put it together. Oh well it will happen or it wont.
Maybe something needs to be changed that you aren't aware of? Just swapping regions or from still hunting to blind hunting might not be enough. Maybe a steady mentor that has been successful in your current hunting region with your preferred tactics.
And I wouldn't say you choked on the buck because of the fence. That is hunting and sometimes it doesn't work out.
Yes I am sure it would help however my bigger change from married to single has seemed to really make me not a good candidate for finding mentors. Or I am just in a bad area. I did hunt one season with someone locally and it was quite awesome I had a lot of fun but life happens and people get busy.
Its ok was just a rough crash landing on the end of this season, it is harder when you dont have mom's, dad's, grandparents, brothers, uncles, boyfriends, etc to really mentor you.
I also know I did not scout enough the woods got shut down due to fire and when they opened back up it was spend money to scout or save it so I could hunt.
Don't get down about it. You have an entire off season to scout, read books, practice, etc...
I grew up in a non hunting family. Not a single relative hunts. That is a bummer but not a hunting death sentence. Be the first in your family to be a successful hunter. Just dedicate yourself to getting a deer and put as much effort into it as you can. It is not a matter of if but more when for you to get a deer.
My blacktail this year is 100% a result of spending a lot of time scouting and watching and gaining the confidence to be in the right place at the right time. I wasn't sure if I would get one this year but was going to keep at it until December 31st if need be. Be confident!
SR1
Post by: ghosthunter on October 26, 2014, 03:08:06 PM
You are ahead of me so far. I have killed lots of deer in my life, ducks, and a few elk. But the last five years I cannot seem to connect with anything. And I hunt with others. But they are not conecting either.
I have been trying to kill a turkey on my own for seven years. Nada, Called a big Tom in one year and missed him. Called in a dozen more and they all busted me.
Now sure, I could go over and hook up with Bearpaw like my buddy did the past two years and kill a couple of turkeys no doubt, But thats not my interest.
For me it is not the killing but the preperation ,the trip, the time in woods, running there gps, all the other stuff. Sure I want to kill a turkey but on my terms, on public land,called in by me, at a location I picked.
Sounds like you need to hook up in a camp. Where you get a little more support and something to take home when an animal isnt in the cards.
Post by: billythekidrock on October 26, 2014, 05:45:19 PM
I have 6 seasons now 3 on the wetside and 3 on the east technically central. I change what I am doing and still cannot seem to make a forked horn magically turn into a 3 point :bash: and I choked last year on a legal buck because I just was not 100% certain about a fence. So I am not one who never see's deer I see plenty of deer just cannot seem to put it together. Oh well it will happen or it wont.
Maybe something needs to be changed that you aren't aware of? Just swapping regions or from still hunting to blind hunting might not be enough. Maybe a steady mentor that has been successful in your current hunting region with your preferred tactics.
And I wouldn't say you choked on the buck because of the fence. That is hunting and sometimes it doesn't work out.
Yes I am sure it would help however my bigger change from married to single has seemed to really make me not a good candidate for finding mentors. Or I am just in a bad area. I did hunt one season with someone locally and it was quite awesome I had a lot of fun but life happens and people get busy.
Its ok was just a rough crash landing on the end of this season, it is harder when you dont have mom's, dad's, grandparents, brothers, uncles, boyfriends, etc to really mentor you.
I also know I did not scout enough the woods got shut down due to fire and when they opened back up it was spend money to scout or save it so I could hunt.
See to me a single person of the opposite sex would be an easier situation to mentor in. For me it was an odd vibe to have your husband constantly come out and hover around when we were bear hunting.
Now see, you are observant of your situation (like not scouting enough) and why (due to fire closure and money). That gives you a starting point on what to start working on and what to do different next year.
Post by: Kulimand on October 26, 2014, 06:55:59 PM
Quote
but seriously if there is sign there are deer it took me the first couple years on the wetside to figure out even how to see those blacktails, once I did I saw lots of deer just never the ones I could shoot.
I'm a newb too and I've heard a lot of talk like this about not seeing them. I've been out several times now and haven't even see does. My more experienced buddies at work seemed a little surprised by this.
Could you please elaborate about this? If I'm not seeing deer that are there, everything else I've been trying to do/change/pay attention to could be pointless.
Thanks
Post by: billythekidrock on October 26, 2014, 08:45:04 PM
Quotebut seriously if there is sign there are deer it took me the first couple years on the wetside to figure out even how to see those blacktails, once I did I saw lots of deer just never the ones I could shoot.
I'm a newb too and I've heard a lot of talk like this about not seeing them. I've been out several times now and haven't even see does. My more experienced buddies at work seemed a little surprised by this.
Could you please elaborate about this? If I'm not seeing deer that are there, everything else I've been trying to do/change/pay attention to could be pointless.
Thanks
Don't look for the whole deer. Look for an ear, a nose, a tail flick, or a lateral line (back/belly) in a vertical forest. Don't look for brown, look for shades of gray in the shadows. Don't look at or in the brush, look through it. Look beyond the first few yards and look for the small things mentioned above.
When walking look at/through the forest in front of you, to the sides and then to the ground. I call it a triangle. See what you can in front, look at it from the side as views change when you move and notice where your feet are going to be placed. Repeat. Don't forget to look behind you periodically.
Post by: runamuk on October 26, 2014, 10:17:12 PM
I have 6 seasons now 3 on the wetside and 3 on the east technically central. I change what I am doing and still cannot seem to make a forked horn magically turn into a 3 point :bash: and I choked last year on a legal buck because I just was not 100% certain about a fence. So I am not one who never see's deer I see plenty of deer just cannot seem to put it together. Oh well it will happen or it wont.
Maybe something needs to be changed that you aren't aware of? Just swapping regions or from still hunting to blind hunting might not be enough. Maybe a steady mentor that has been successful in your current hunting region with your preferred tactics.
And I wouldn't say you choked on the buck because of the fence. That is hunting and sometimes it doesn't work out.
Yes I am sure it would help however my bigger change from married to single has seemed to really make me not a good candidate for finding mentors. Or I am just in a bad area. I did hunt one season with someone locally and it was quite awesome I had a lot of fun but life happens and people get busy.
Its ok was just a rough crash landing on the end of this season, it is harder when you dont have mom's, dad's, grandparents, brothers, uncles, boyfriends, etc to really mentor you.
I also know I did not scout enough the woods got shut down due to fire and when they opened back up it was spend money to scout or save it so I could hunt.
See to me a single person of the opposite sex would be an easier situation to mentor in. For me it was an odd vibe to have your husband constantly come out and hover around when we were bear hunting.
Now see, you are observant of your situation (like not scouting enough) and why (due to fire closure and money). That gives you a starting point on what to start working on and what to do different next year.
I still remember hunting with you it was awesome I learned a lot and appreciate all of your help.
And yes it was just sort of a weird deer year for me. Hoping next year is a little more normal and I can find a few bucks before the season starts.
For the Kuilimand guy listen to what he is saying. First find sign. no point spending lots of time where there is no fresh sign. Then its look for triangles and suitcases, seriously sounds crazy but when I stopped looking for deer and started looking for geometry and movement I started seeing all sorts of deer. And slow down in fact if you are not in thick timber just stop and watch for a while. I also learned to watch the timber ahead of me before I move I look through binos for anything. I see lots of animals I get right in them I have close encounters I just havent managed to get a legal animal in sight during a legal season.
Post by: brew on October 29, 2014, 09:47:47 PM
let me first start out by saying that i am no Lee Majors (young people google it) and my eyesight is getting poorer by the year..i find my best success glassing for blackies is to look at an area with my binos and move my eyes around the entire field of view that i can see without moving my binos and identifying everything in that section...i find it easier to wear a hat and grab the binos with my thumbs and the hat brim with my fingers to steady things. I cant just pan with the binos as i miss a lot. grid the area out and check it section by section---again and again and again. as was said previous look for horizontal lines (backs of deer) alternating colors (i really notice white throat patches,butts and lower legs)..dont think that seriously glassing deer in cuts can only be done in low light conditions...i've been hunting a particular buck for a year now in a clear cut that is 300 yards wide by 300 yards deep to the top ...first time i saw him he was bedded on top at the repord line looking over his does...glassed him as he was looking at me and he stretched his neck out in his bed to avoid detection...after a minute of me looking at him in his bed he decided to walk into the timber but not after putting on a show...it was modern firearm elk season so he got out of his bed and stretched like a cat--first reaching his front legs out and dipping his head down then pushing his back legs out and pushing his rack straight up...i about crapped myself watching the display he put on. Now every time i roll past this area i stop to see if he's home. every time i see does there no matter what time of day...it may take a half hour of glassing before i see them but they are always there...bottom line is that deer will always bed/feed in what is convenient as long as it is far enough away from pressure...i usually find that to be around 250 yardsQuotebut seriously if there is sign there are deer it took me the first couple years on the wetside to figure out even how to see those blacktails, once I did I saw lots of deer just never the ones I could shoot.
I'm a newb too and I've heard a lot of talk like this about not seeing them. I've been out several times now and haven't even see does. My more experienced buddies at work seemed a little surprised by this.
Could you please elaborate about this? If I'm not seeing deer that are there, everything else I've been trying to do/change/pay attention to could be pointless.
Thanks
Post by: Odell on October 30, 2014, 08:36:11 AM
You have to identify the right kind of terrain then have confidence the deer are there, you just have to find them. That can take a VERY long time of glassing.
Personally I think most people quit too early and move too fast. I took my BIL hunting a few years ago and couldn't believe how much ground he covered. And he never saw any deer.
Be patient. They are there, just need to spot them.
Post by: whacker1 on October 30, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
Post by: irishevox on October 30, 2014, 08:45:16 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 30, 2014, 08:56:22 AM
where are you located
That seems to be the million dollar question
Post by: DoubleJ on October 30, 2014, 11:33:34 AM
Post by: irishevox on October 30, 2014, 11:46:37 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 30, 2014, 04:30:20 PM
thats what it looks like.... i offered him the option of success.....
Hahaha! Well if success is what you can provide then I bet you'll get about 3,000 PMs tonight.
Post by: irishevox on October 30, 2014, 04:54:04 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 30, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
where are you located
That seems to be the million dollar question
He is/was an active member/troll and this username is banned.
Post by: sirmissalot on October 30, 2014, 04:58:24 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 30, 2014, 05:14:52 PM
How about his other username?
Haven't looked, but the site has been free of his drama lately.
Post by: RadSav on October 30, 2014, 05:54:28 PM
Of course this is different than folks who are reaching out for help and guidance. I feel obligated to some degree to help those hunters. But, "I'm going to quit unless I get my way" to me is like a school kid saying he is taking his ball and going home. All about creating drama and throwing a fit. Make's me think of Herman Simpson - Homey don't play that! :chuckle:
Post by: Stickerbush on October 30, 2014, 10:50:23 PM
This state I think it can be hard to figure out big game especially if no one in your family taught you how. But I feel the quote of Russell Wilson "the separation is in the preparation" really pays off. There is always more you can do to prepare for a hunt, in my opinion I have yet to scratch the surface of what the future holds in terms of hunting and that really excites me. That is where I am at, greatfull of the experiences I have but hungry for more in the future. If you want instant gratification maybe small game is a better option.
Post by: GurrCentral on October 30, 2014, 10:59:12 PM
My position towards folks wanting to quit hunting due to lack of success has been changing. I used to believe that helping educate and added support was worth the effort. Figured with just a little guidance they could change their outlook. Maybe I'm becoming more cynical or people are just getting more fast food/entitlement oriented. Either way if someone starts in whining about their success and saying they are going to quit, my first reaction lately has been, "Go ahead and quit. Do you have a gun you want to sell?"
:yeah:
Post by: runamuk on October 30, 2014, 11:05:52 PM
so sure deer ended now I have even less time for elk but I am having the best time going out getting drowned like a wetsider and so far saw one cow(elk not angus). I flat dont think I can get to where they are hiding this year so may make one more run at it and then I dunno look for coyotes.
I like being out there so its never really a bad thing, deer was just frustrating this year in all sorts of new ways. I think however I have learned some more and theres always next year right :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: yeah yeah I know I quit :P
Post by: RadSav on October 31, 2014, 12:15:21 AM
yeah yeah I know I quit :P
That sounds more like playing the hand you are dealt than quitting. Wouldn't hold that against you! I think we have been out only five or six days this year. And only one small buck to show for it. But that's not quitting that's life getting in the way ;)
Post by: DoubleJ on October 31, 2014, 06:41:10 AM
Post by: irishevox on October 31, 2014, 09:43:58 AM
Post by: OutHouse on July 17, 2015, 10:41:01 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on July 17, 2015, 11:28:00 AM
Scouting is key. I scout for the entire summer. When I do that, I see bucks. If I slack on scouting, I see much fewer animals, if any at all
What drew a new guy to bring up this long forgotten topic on his second post?? :rolleyes:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 17, 2015, 11:34:14 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 17, 2015, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on July 17, 2015, 11:39:46 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 17, 2015, 11:41:58 AM
He didn't read the date of the prior post....details...details!!! :chuckle:
Or the warning that says, "dude nobody has posted here for 120 days...are your sure?"
Post by: westsidehntr on July 17, 2015, 11:42:13 AM
Scouting is key. I scout for the entire summer. When I do that, I see bucks. If I slack on scouting, I see much fewer animals, if any at all
What drew a new guy to bring up this long forgotten topic on his second post?? :rolleyes:
He probably did a search for something that popped up this thread :dunno:
Post by: MtnMuley on July 17, 2015, 11:46:17 AM
Scouting is key. I scout for the entire summer. When I do that, I see bucks. If I slack on scouting, I see much fewer animals, if any at all
What drew a new guy to bring up this long forgotten topic on his second post?? :rolleyes:
He probably did a search for something that popped up this thread :dunno:
1 post and key words "giving up"? :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on July 17, 2015, 11:46:40 AM
Post by: westsidehntr on July 17, 2015, 11:47:46 AM
Well it is somewhat interesting. It looks like 30draw maybe did give up hunting or at least posting on huntwa.
Hopefully instead of posting here he is out in the woods :tung:
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 18, 2015, 12:28:09 PM
Quote
I think we have been out only five or six days this year. And only one small buck to show for it.I remember when I could say I have only been hunting 5 or six years, and only one small buck to show for it.
It is all about paying your dues.
If you are hunting for the "success" of killing something, I hope you have $$$
Guys like me, hunt so that we do not have to pay psychiatrists or lawyers.
Spend more time in the woods as a non-consumptive sportsman/woman and you begin to fit into the cycle... Then you decide if you want to be prey, or predator.
"Vegetarian" or Carnivore...
I don't hunt for the meat, I hunt for the sustenance of my soul, this allows me to be satisfied with an afternoon of just watching a pair of bobcat kittens play and not care if I kill something.
Slow down and see what is happening around you, feel the wind... Sooner or later a whole world you have been missing opens up to you...
Next thing you know, you just throw sticks at them so you don't have to carry them out of the woods..
Post by: magnumb on July 18, 2015, 08:00:46 PM
Sooooo.....you have two strikes against you, but as has been said, you certainly are dedicated and you're doing alot of the right things. I'm thinkin' that you're just not doing the right things nearly enough.
Find clear cuts in the 2-5 year range that aren't perhaps frequented by the majority of hunters in that area. The less visited and coveted by most hunters, the better. The older clear cuts in that 2-5 year old range offer deer, especially the more mature BT's, cover all day long. Many will bed down right in that clear cut all day long. What's the point in traveling a couple hundred yards to eat when you can just lean over from your bed and munch a little between meals without ever being detected.
Detecting...........if your bino's aren't stuck to your eye sockets the vast majority of the time that you're looking over a clear cut, you might as well quit hunting. Sure, there are times when that BT buck will walk right down the road and stop at 50 yds. away and bucks that will show themselves completely in a clear cut opening, but the vast majority will not do either. If you're looking for more than an antler, an ear, a bush movin' or the white patch on the underside of their chin and neck, you're missing 95% of the deer that inhabit the area you're hunting.
Most of the BT bucks I've taken in the 40 years (this year) of hunting them have been bedded or frozen in place with little body showing for either a confirmed verification of gender or a clear and reasonable/responsible shot. There are very few alternatives in our thick, lush, blow down 'wet side' where one can move closer to a deer (after identifying it's gender) in order to either get a better or closer shot. Even though most shots don't extend over 70yds. on either side of the mountains, better than 'good' glass, IMHO, is essential as is a rifle/scope/cartridge combo that can easily reach out and leave a mark on a BT at an extended range.......as always, based on the operator doing his/her part.
"Great glass" all around, flat shooter you're proficient with, clear cuts in that age range that are off the beaten path as much as possible and has not been sprayed that season and sun-up to sundown and after if light enough to see. Not advocating hunting/shooting after legal hours, but BT, especially the bucks after opening day, tend to come out and feed when we've left the area before pitch dark. If you see one during that time period, he won't be far the very next morning. You may never see that particular buck again, but that certainly doesn't mean that he wasn't there or that another 2 bucks weren't also in that same general area.
Most of all, have patience.....lots of it. Any deer or elk can stay frozen or bedded much longer than most of us can even imagine. I watched a major bull (I got my bull on the 'opener) stay within 10 yds. of his hillside bed for the final 5 days of a general elk season. Every morning I'd take the time to see if he had left and after hours of glassin' that heavily wooded hillside, I'd catch some part of him or some off color patch that would later evolve into that same bull. I told my 6 partners in elk camp about this bull and where to glass him from. Not one of them ever saw any part of that bull.
They're there, they just aren't interested in dying......no different than you or I. If Zombies could only detect human movement, I know that I could remain pretty frozen for as long as necessary.
We are every deer and elk's Zombie. Don't give up because once you take either a deer or an elk, I can only assume that you will immediately forget about all of those days and weeks that you came home empty because now you've got that 'monkey' off of your back.
Stay positive and as we all know, 'luck' (success) happens much more to those that are truly prepared and that remain positive.
Good luck to you........ :tup:.
Post by: huntingbaldguy on July 25, 2015, 03:26:40 AM
Secondly, slow down even when scouting. If you're driving around on roads, crawl. I literally saw 8 deer and about 20 cow elk today between 10am and 11am because i was just creeping along. 4 of the deer and all the cows stuck around for a while, so i just sat and observed their feeding patterns and what they did when they didn't see movement anymore. You learn a lot by just watching them. I have hundreds of hours of scouting and hunting into this area over the last 3 years, but trust me, year one was frustrating. Just can't replace the familiarity of a spot you've spent so much time with, and after a while you start noticing brown things amongst all the green. That's why this time of year is a great time to scout, all the ferns are green, not the brown they get in the fall. If you see a fresh trail going up a north facing slope toward a saddle or bench in the morning, stop and scan the slope, the deer might still be there, it just sees you and isn't gonna move for the next 10 minutes you stand there and play where's Waldo. You will be amazed how still they can stay, and for how long. I recommend specifically targeting 3-5 year old clear cuts from a vantage point. Try to get to said vantage point early, and just sit and watch. They like that small reprod and they can hide well in it.
Post by: Tbob on July 25, 2015, 11:58:48 AM