Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 02:31:40 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on November 03, 2014, 02:33:39 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 02:36:42 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on November 03, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
Post by: stevemiller on November 03, 2014, 02:40:51 PM
Post by: X-Force on November 03, 2014, 02:41:12 PM
Letting legal deer walk is the hunters option why condemn them for putting meat on the table?
The only way to change the percent of big bucks harvested would be to go to a permit system.
Why is a sport that is having a hard time holding and recruiting members wanting to shoot itself in the foot by limiting available opportunities?
Post by: boneaddict on November 03, 2014, 02:43:56 PM
Quote
The only way to change the percent of big bucks harvested would be to go to a permit systemNo thanks! I'll take my chances on if I will see a big buck and harvest it EVERY year. I will pass on plenty though as suggested.
Post by: Ranger91298 on November 03, 2014, 02:45:46 PM
Scott
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 02:46:13 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 03, 2014, 02:47:40 PM
How many forked horn bucks have people walked up too and went "oh crap! I thought it was a 3pt" then walk off pretending they didn't find anything....
Post by: X-Force on November 03, 2014, 02:48:45 PM
QuoteThe only way to change the percent of big bucks harvested would be to go to a permit systemNo thanks! I'll take my chances on if I will see a big buck and harvest it EVERY year. I will pass on plenty though as suggested.
I was going to say that 50+% of big bucks are harvested by the same people year after year.
The quality of animals IMO has a lot to do with where and how you hunt.
Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 02:49:53 PM
Post by: buckfvr on November 03, 2014, 02:50:19 PM
Im with bone..........Ill take my chances how it is. We dont live in a perfect world and to expect it to be just because of a permit system is wrong.
Wa. cant be compared to any other state.....factor in population and public land and herd sizes and condition.....it varies from ecosystem to ecosystem..........cant paint it all with one brush.
Post by: stevemiller on November 03, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 03, 2014, 02:52:54 PM
Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 02:54:55 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 02:56:31 PM
I don't want this to improve "trophy" hunting, but to provide a more quality hunting experience. I think limiting the number of hunters would actually help in recruiting young hunters, as they would have a much better experience when they are drawn for a hunt.
Post by: Skillet on November 03, 2014, 02:58:38 PM
I don't want this to improve "trophy" hunting, but to provide a more quality hunting experience. I think limiting the number of hunters would actually help in recruiting young hunters, as they would have a much better experiencewhenif they are drawn for a hunt.
Fixed it for ya. :tup:
Given this state's trending towards drawings as a revenue-generator instead of increasing opportunity, I wouldn't trust a draw-only system at all.
Post by: Bean Counter on November 03, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on November 03, 2014, 02:59:26 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 03, 2014, 03:01:16 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 03:03:06 PM
I don't want this to improve "trophy" hunting, but to provide a more quality hunting experience. I think limiting the number of hunters would actually help in recruiting young hunters, as they would have a much better experiencewhenif they are drawn for a hunt.
Fixed it for ya. :tup:
That's always what people seem to think would happen. I don't. Look at Oregon. They're draw only for mule deer, yet kids don't have a problem drawing tags. Many units can be drawn every year and many others, every other year. Why is our state so much different that we can have unlimited numbers of deer tags, while ALL other western states do not?
Post by: buckfvr on November 03, 2014, 03:04:03 PM
Bobcat.........really.....expand your world and look at more places. There is many places that offer great experiences for those willing to hunt where the deer are. Your head is so wrapped around the western wa experience Im going to suggest close to home and on the weekends......if you want success, prepare for success and get out there and go for it for real.
It seems unfathomable to go through a deer season and fail. Maybe not kill one, but have an opportunity to, but yes, pass on a chance at a legal buck. Otherwise, you are doing something/many things wrong. :twocents:
Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on November 03, 2014, 03:08:24 PM
This wasn't about the permit system just saying that people don't have to shoot the first thing they see.
What about the people that only have a weekend to hunt, or the people that could care less about antlers and just want meat in the freezer? I think you are assuming that all hunters are trophy hunters with all this time on their hands to hunt. :bdid:
Post by: Woodchuck on November 03, 2014, 03:08:57 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 03:10:41 PM
This wasn't about the permit system just saying that people don't have to shoot the first thing they see.
Nope. Not up to you. If the animal is legal you may keep your opinion to yourself if the hunter should have filled their tag or not.
Post by: DP on November 03, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
Post by: RB on November 03, 2014, 03:11:21 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 03, 2014, 03:11:44 PM
It'll never change because that's how people's mentality are. All I'm saying is that if you let one walk maybe it grows up.
If that's how it works then I'm feeling like I've single handedly completely restored the mature mule deer population of Eastern Washington all by my self.
:dunno:
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 03:13:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 03:14:14 PM
This wasn't about the permit system just saying that people don't have to shoot the first thing they see.
In general seasons most people are going to do just that- take the first legal animal they see. I usually do. Except this year, I did pass up a spike at 50 yards during the early muzzleloader season. The only other times that I have passed up legal bucks has been during special permit hunts.
Post by: Skillet on November 03, 2014, 03:16:25 PM
I don't want this to improve "trophy" hunting, but to provide a more quality hunting experience. I think limiting the number of hunters would actually help in recruiting young hunters, as they would have a much better experiencewhenif they are drawn for a hunt.
Fixed it for ya. :tup:
That's always what people seem to think would happen. I don't. Look at Oregon. They're draw only for mule deer, yet kids don't have a problem drawing tags. Many units can be drawn every year and many others, every other year. Why is our state so much different that we can have unlimited numbers of deer tags, while ALL other western states do not?
Frankly, I no longer trust the WDFW on any level to fairly administer a draw tag system without making its primary intent of increasing quality secondary to a their desire for another revenue-generating scheme. And since the WDFW doesn't run draws in other western states, that's why it's so much different here.
Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Post by: Gutpile on November 03, 2014, 03:21:11 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 03:22:25 PM
I'm all for a permit system there would be more deer and the people who want meat would have units with large quotas. Look at all the other states with awesome hunting you want meat there's units in Wyoming with 2 or 3 cow elk tags or go shoot 2 or 3 does.
Here's my issue with you simply saying let them walk. Number one, I don't have time or $$ to make that trip. Number two, you are simply trying to dictate what others shoot. Its legal. Fill your tag if you chose. Your opinion frankly isn't worth anything to me what I hang my tag on when done legally. Now, you want to put forth some proposals on general season vs draw based on herd/harvest data based on Wa numbers then good, put that out there and we can have a discussion. However, you saying let 'em walk because that is what YOU want done...nope. Hunters like yourself are once again working (apparently) towards restricting other hunters based on your opinion. News flash, your opinion, my opinion, on what hunters hang their tag on (legally of course) isn't worth squat.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 03, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
That's always what people seem to think would happen. I don't. Look at Oregon. They're draw only for mule deer, yet kids don't have a problem drawing tags. Many units can be drawn every year and many others, every other year. Why is our state so much different that we can have unlimited numbers of deer tags, while ALL other western states do not?
Kids have trouble drawing if it's a weighted draw. They haven't been putting in for enough years to get the points amassed that it usually takes to get drawn. It's not impossible, but really the odds are against them.
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 03:24:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 03:27:37 PM
That's always what people seem to think would happen. I don't. Look at Oregon. They're draw only for mule deer, yet kids don't have a problem drawing tags. Many units can be drawn every year and many others, every other year. Why is our state so much different that we can have unlimited numbers of deer tags, while ALL other western states do not?
Kids have trouble drawing if it's a weighted draw. They haven't been putting in for enough years to get the points amassed that it usually takes to get drawn. It's not impossible, but really the odds are against them.
Like I already mentioned, in Oregon many mule deer tags can be drawn with zero or 1 point.
Post by: Fishcrazy82 on November 03, 2014, 03:41:22 PM
Post by: stevemiller on November 03, 2014, 03:44:02 PM
Post by: stevemiller on November 03, 2014, 03:45:07 PM
It's encouraging to see that there are actually a lot of people open to change.Where do you see a lot?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 03, 2014, 03:50:36 PM
My point of view is that all the other states with far better hunting control the numbers of animals killed by using a permit system. So we all both about only seeing small buck and some peoples once in a lifetime bucks that don't really need to be. All it would take is people not to kill the first leagal hair they see. Maybe that tiny 3 point will be that once in a lifetime type buck in a couple years. So maybe you go without a year or two but wouldn't it feel good to look at a big buck once in a while?
I just hunted in Idaho, which some would say has better hunting than Washington. Most whitetail deer hunting there is shoot any deer you see, spike, 5x5, does, towheads. It actually keeps balance in the herd. Then your habitat isn't just supporting a herd of does who have a few young bucks left to service them. You don't get more big bucks by killing them all. And you don't get good breeding by killing the big bucks and leaving the immature bucks to do the job. Better to spread the harvest around and save some big boys for breeding.
Some people just want to get a deer in the easiest most economical way possible, which comes down to taking the first legal animal they see. They may not have the time nor the money or even the desire to hold out for a once in a lifetime deer every year.
In the meantime, that little three point isn't guaranteed to grow into a once in a lifetime deer. First off, he may not even be genetically inclined to a huge rack. Then he may be taken out by predators or a bad winter. He may catch some deer disease like CWD or Blue Tongue. Or he may be hit by a car. There are a lot of ways for deer to die besides from a hunters gun.
Go ahead and hold out if that suits you. Just don't be thinking it suits everybody.
Post by: bobcat on November 03, 2014, 03:52:43 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Post by: Miles on November 03, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Let's see what holding out and passing on smaller bucks has done for you... Share some stories and pics with us, maybe you'll start a trend. ;)
Post by: coachcw on November 03, 2014, 03:59:04 PM
I do have to say, although in general I support the idea of a limited permit system for deer hunting, I also don't want to decrease our harvest just to have the Native American tribes increase their harvest, and in the end we would see no improvement in deer numbers.so the only way to maybe limit the harvest the tribal harvest to a 50% is to mandate a total permit system since the tribes get 50% what is the limit if we don't have a set limit. last Friday and sunday three tribal members took five bucks off the ytc. I suspect they do that most weekends . at some point enough is enough.
Post by: stevemiller on November 03, 2014, 04:01:14 PM
Post by: rover758 on November 03, 2014, 04:01:55 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2014, 04:05:17 PM
Post by: cbond3318 on November 03, 2014, 04:15:20 PM
I have passed numerous legal animals for one reason or the next, mainly because my family will not starve if I don't kill an animal and I enjoy hunting. Why do you think we are losing popularity with non hunters? Don't you think it would be easier for someone to stand behind something they may not agree with if it still portrayed as a necessity instead of what can easily be seen as undue lust?
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has no knowledge of hunting in todays world and watch 3 popular deer hunting shows. What impression of hunters and hunting be? Look at the size of this rack! I just smoked a hog daddy! 1,2,3,4 on the left 1,2,3,4,5 on the right!
By voicing an idea such as letting young animals live now so you can kill later to hang a larger set of antlers on your wall leaves a heck of an impression with the wrong crowd. :twocents:
Post by: Gutpile on November 03, 2014, 04:27:29 PM
Sometimes I read a perfect post. I totally agree.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 03, 2014, 04:32:44 PM
every discussion on this forum where a hunter tries to rally other hunters to impeed on how hunters legally harvest their game is a hunter vs hunter thread no matter how you slice it. :bdid:
Amen brother.
Post by: coachcw on November 03, 2014, 04:35:35 PM
:yeah:Really In my mind not only is a mature buck nicer to look at but he has a much larger body. if we only shot age class bucks we would get the full potential of meat from that animals , It's all a matter of how each see's it .
Sometimes I read a perfect post. I totally agree.
Post by: wannabhntr on November 03, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
It'll never change because that's how people's mentality are. All I'm saying is that if you let one walk maybe it grows up.If you let a mature one walk, maybe he breeds more does. You guys are ridiculous. Hunters are going to be the death of hunting in this state. Don't shoot small bucks, don't bait......Rifle is the only way, archery sucks...... If we don't start banding together you all are going to have a lot more to complain about than what you do now.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 03, 2014, 05:49:56 PM
If done right like take some units and split them in half or so, but be mindful not to make it that people completely loose the area/unit they hunt in. :dunno:
I don't think permit only is the answer to better quality deer to hunt. :twocents:
I wonder why Idaho has so many whitetails with such a liberal hunting rules? :dunno:
Post by: rover758 on November 03, 2014, 06:18:13 PM
cbond for president.
No, h20 ... don't have a pic of the rack. I do have an opinion that you may do better deer hunting if you didn't spend so much time in camp trying to count that 19 crib. :chuckle:
Post by: dr.derek on November 03, 2014, 06:26:18 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 03, 2014, 06:30:07 PM
Permit numbers and antler point restrictions are supposed to be based on scientific principles and game management goals for that particular unit or region. If you decide for yourself that you're going to hold yourself to a supposed higher standard and hold out for a trophy buck, that's your choice. But, all due respects, saying that everyone should do as you say for no other reason than because you say is BS. Show me your studies. Show me your reasoning for these assessments. Otherwise, you're just projecting your made up "standards" on someone else. And as a matter of fact, those standards may be working in direct opposition to the goals of the wildlife managers for that area. I shot a small buck this year and hadn't for a number of years. I hunt for meat and it was a success. Would I shoot a trophy buck if he came by? You bet. Would I enjoy eating him as much? Probably, but the wife wouldn't. You hunt your way and I'll hunt mine. I assure you that I'll support any legal way you choose to hunt and I expect the same from you.
:yeah:
I have chosen not to shoot spikes where I hunt, I encourage others not to as well. Out here, a 2 1/2 year old deer will have ten more pounds of meat on it than a 1 1/2 year old one. I hunt primarily for the meat. This year, I have seen two spikes that were 2 1/2 year old deer, almost pulled the bow trigger on one, but I had seen two bigger bucks with him the night before, and shot one of them later that evening. One of my neighbors loves to shoot spikes because "they taste better". I'm not going to tell him he can't, it's his choice. And, in the end, it really does not effect our local deer/buck population. I do find it sad when I see nubbins being shot as "bucks", but if it makes the shooter's hunt successful, good for them.
Boss300, I bet it has to do with the fact that overall elk numbers are substantially lower than deer population numbers. As far as the number of whitetails in Idaho, I would guess they just have higher numbers there due to better habitat or fewer disease vectors than us, maybe they don't consider them vermin and have more restrictions on doe harvest? I really don't know anything about Idaho though. Look as far east as WI, they kill more deer in their ten day rifle season than we probably have living in our entire state. Do they have restrictive hunting rules? Not at all, they just have different habitat. They even have wolves to deal with as well.
Post by: Gamblin Guy on November 03, 2014, 06:35:27 PM
just sayin'....
Post by: Turner89 on November 03, 2014, 07:18:48 PM
If we put restrictions on buck size, all were doing is making it harder for new hunters to be successful, and possibly losing potential fellow hunters. (we need all the allies we can get) My son is 15, and has shot 4 deer. 2- spikes, and 2- 2x2. all 4 young deer (obviously). He is hooked for life, and gets as pumped as I do when I get a mature buck. He most likely would be still looking for his first buck, if there was a point restriction. I know that his interest in hunting would not be as strong it is now.
I know that a lot of people on here complain about the amount of people in the woods. It really doesn't bother me. I enjoy talking to some of the guys I run into, and will give them honest advice if they ask. Most of them don't go far, and are just trying to figure things out. I'll even give them advice on small bucks I've seen in different cuts. Maybe they'll fill a tag , and will 1) be done hunting that area for the year, and 2) keep hunting for years to come. Anymore Restrictions on any of our hunting privileges is BAD