Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: D-Rock425 on November 07, 2014, 12:36:38 PM

Title: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 07, 2014, 12:36:38 PM: Sent to me via Facebook. Legal in a spike area yes or no.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: h2ofowlr on November 07, 2014, 12:38:11 PM: Probably not with a 8" brow tine.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: vandeman17 on November 07, 2014, 12:40:36 PM: I don't know if that brow tine comes off above or below the 4" mark but I doubt I would shoot him. I tend to live in the "rather be safe than sorry" camp
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Woodchuck on November 07, 2014, 12:41:33 PM: Yes I think it is legal as I read the reg. Not sure I would have the guts to try it.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: firefighter12 on November 07, 2014, 12:41:49 PM: If the brow tine is lower than 4 inches above where the antler attaches to the skull and there are no branches, I think it meets the legal definition.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Rick on November 07, 2014, 12:49:03 PM: You cant tell from that pic if its legal or not.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Hornseeker on November 07, 2014, 12:51:35 PM: give me a break... skirting the rules....
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Skillet on November 07, 2014, 12:52:39 PM: Quote from: firefighter12 on November 07, 2014, 12:41:49 PM
If the brow tine is lower than 4 inches above where the antler attaches to the skull and there are no branches, I think it meets the legal definition.
:yeah:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: kukusya on November 07, 2014, 12:58:48 PM: Ask stinbait, he knows
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 01:01:04 PM: If he's technically legal, good to get him out of the gene pool. I say yes.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on November 07, 2014, 01:02:43 PM: I would.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: adamR on November 07, 2014, 01:03:52 PM: From the picture it looks like it's lower than four inches from the base... I'd take him
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on November 07, 2014, 01:25:24 PM: very questionable. I can't imagine trying to judge this in the field..I'm passing
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 07, 2014, 01:29:02 PM: I really wouldn't like that conversation with the warden.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 07, 2014, 01:30:40 PM: The only question here is euro or full shoulder mount! :archery_smiley:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 07, 2014, 01:36:06 PM: Quote from: Hornseeker on November 07, 2014, 12:51:35 PM
give me a break... skirting the rules....

How? :dunno:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: KillerBeee on November 07, 2014, 01:40:45 PM: I think it's a green light if I could positively view the short side....
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: skeeter 20i on November 07, 2014, 01:48:53 PM: With all of these "is it legal" pictures lately it would be nice to get a GW to weigh in to see if we are right with our respective "assumptions"

If I can see that short side better and it looks like it isn't above the 4" and the short side doesn't split, I'm shooting. But I would want a REALLY good look first.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: brianb231 on November 07, 2014, 01:57:55 PM: Id shoot that in a second if that brow was less than 4 from the base. legal! :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: 7mmfan on November 07, 2014, 02:02:29 PM: Yep I'm with the others. If I can get a good look to confirm the brow tine originates less than 4" from the base, then that sucker is toast. Doesn't matter how long the brow tine is, as long as it originates less than 4" from the base, you're good to go.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: 7mmfan on November 07, 2014, 02:04:31 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 01:01:04 PM
If he's technically legal, good to get him out of the gene pool. I say yes.

Usually animals with horn configurations like this aren't that way because of genetics, but an injury of somekind. Thats always been my understanding anyway. I'd still shoot him!
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Hornseeker on November 07, 2014, 02:27:44 PM: I agree, thats not a genetic issue...

What is the spike only rule for??
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 07, 2014, 02:33:05 PM: I would think the Game Warden would be looking close for saw and file marks? :dunno:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Shawn Ryan on November 07, 2014, 02:44:16 PM: Legal or not--look at the amazing left side first brow tine!! :yike:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 02:49:47 PM: Quote from: 7mmfan on November 07, 2014, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 01:01:04 PM
If he's technically legal, good to get him out of the gene pool. I say yes.

Usually animals with horn configurations like this aren't that way because of genetics, but an injury of somekind. Thats always been my understanding anyway. I'd still shoot him!

I would think injury would cause disfigurement, not loss of tines. That's why i said genetics. Either way, if the elk is legal, congratulations t the hunter. :tup:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 07, 2014, 03:13:34 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: 7mmfan on November 07, 2014, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: pianoman9701 on November 07, 2014, 01:01:04 PM
If he's technically legal, good to get him out of the gene pool. I say yes.

Usually animals with horn configurations like this aren't that way because of genetics, but an injury of somekind. Thats always been my understanding anyway. I'd still shoot him!

I would think injury would cause disfigurement, not loss of tines. That's why i said genetics. Either way, if the elk is legal, congratulations t the hunter. :tup:

Injury prior to antler grow.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Bullkllr on November 07, 2014, 03:19:35 PM: Quote from: Shawn Ryan on November 07, 2014, 02:44:16 PM
Legal or not--look at the amazing left side first brow tine!! :yike:

No doubt! That thing is huge.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM: As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Rick on November 07, 2014, 03:33:04 PM: Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.

The ear has nothing to do with the legal definition in a spike only unit.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: vandeman17 on November 07, 2014, 03:38:53 PM: Quote from: Rick on November 07, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.

The ear has nothing to do with the legal definition in a spike only unit.

Ear is not in the legal definition but I have heard and read that you can use the ear as a reference for size because the top of the ear is about even with the 4" mark on a typical bull's rack. With that being said, if there was any doubt I wouldn't shoot. Not worth it.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:44:53 PM: Quote from: Rick on November 07, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.

The ear has nothing to do with the legal definition in a spike only unit.

We'll I stand corrected it states " does not branch more than 4 inches above where antler attaches to skull". I'm still shooting
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Slamadoo on November 07, 2014, 03:45:12 PM: I actually faced this dilemma two seasons ago. Had a group of bulls trot by me on opening day. One of them was a 6 point with his right antler broken off. He had 6 on the left and an eyeguard and spike on the right. I thought about it but couldn't pull the trigger. I guess I felt like all it would take was one game warden who wanted to make it an issue even though I think it is legal under the description of the regs. In reality, I had a few seconds to make a decision. Every once in a while I kick myself for not shooting him. I think I made the right choice though.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Skillet on November 07, 2014, 04:02:55 PM: I think that is a gray area too, but a darker gray. Definitely different than a natural grown "6 x 1".

If you found a game warden with a chip on his shoulder, he's going to assume you shot a big bull and busted off the antler yourself...

I would shoot the bull in the pic, but would pass like you did on the "6 x broken".
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: buddy01 on November 07, 2014, 04:14:57 PM: I hunted with a friend in Oregon, that got one just it. But we asked game dept. first. he said OK .got him next day. So I would yes. :twocents:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: blindluck on November 07, 2014, 04:46:12 PM: Looks legal to me.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Hunter Henry on November 07, 2014, 04:47:57 PM: Looks like under the 4 inch mark, I'd take him.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: 270Flat on November 07, 2014, 05:04:12 PM: Boom!
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Mike450r on November 07, 2014, 05:06:09 PM: Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: Rick on November 07, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.

The ear has nothing to do with the legal definition in a spike only unit.

We'll I stand corrected it states " does not branch more than 4 inches above where antler attaches to skull". I'm still shooting

I made the same mistake in another spike thread. So I checked where I read about the ears. That is for 3 point or better areas at least 2 points must be above the ears. As for this one, I am shooting it and getting the biggest spike in the area.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: BIGMIKE on November 07, 2014, 05:15:33 PM: I would shoot it in a heartbeat, wont even second guess! Then I'll have him mounted proudly! That's a mature bull and he is legal. Very impressive driver side brow.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Big6bull on November 07, 2014, 05:27:13 PM: If it's legal. Congrats to the hunter, heck of a bull.

But I think since spike only rule is designed to restrict the amount of mature bulls taken. I think they should be true spike only. Not a fan of "technicalities" or grey areas. Rules need to be black and white period :twocents:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: greenhead_killer on November 07, 2014, 05:44:03 PM: Be on my wall this time next year
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: jdb on November 07, 2014, 05:47:16 PM: Quote from: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 07, 2014, 02:33:05 PM
I would think the Game Warden would be looking close for saw and file marks? :dunno:
i would think the game warden could pound sand
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: jdb on November 07, 2014, 05:52:05 PM: Quote from: skeeter 20i on November 07, 2014, 01:48:53 PM
With all of these "is it legal" pictures lately it would be nice to get a GW to weigh in to see if we are right with our respective "assumptions"

If I can see that short side better and it looks like it isn't above the 4" and the short side doesn't split, I'm shooting. But I would want a REALLY good look first.
i personally do not trust the word of game wardens, they'll tell you what ever they want right or wrong
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 07, 2014, 08:13:03 PM: Quote from: jdb on November 07, 2014, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 07, 2014, 02:33:05 PM
I would think the Game Warden would be looking close for saw and file marks? :dunno:
i would think the game warden could pound sand

:tup: Last one I dealt with, I had a hard time defining him as a weasel or a ferret. All the same I guess.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 07, 2014, 08:19:10 PM: Quote from: adamR on November 07, 2014, 01:03:52 PM
From the picture it looks like it's lower than four inches from the base... I'd take him

:yeah: Most brow tines originate at the base anyway.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Watimberghost on November 07, 2014, 08:20:18 PM: What a cool bull! That's a shooter in a spike only unit, and a dream come true at that
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: 100 grain on November 07, 2014, 08:37:03 PM: YADA YADA YADA fellas :chuckle: most of you would take it quick as sh&$ :chuckle: jdb I agree with you....gw will tell you their opinion not facts at times. Had it happen before. Tried to argue his opinion on a factory installed plug on a shotgun. .......

Anyway thanks for the thread! It has taught me a lesson actually as a beginner hunter. And yeah that elk would be mine n the future according to the rules :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Rooster1981 on November 07, 2014, 09:21:31 PM: Quote from: steeleywhopper on November 07, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
As long as that eye guard branches off below his ear it's good to go. WDFW makes us shoot "needle in a haystack" spikes so that thing is down if I'm looking at it.

If you hunted spikes in the early to mid 90's branching below the ears was the old spike rule. So yes that used to be the case until the 4 inch rule came into place.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:00:12 AM: It's a legal bull since I shot it in New Mexico in 2013 on a any elk tag.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 08, 2014, 09:05:12 AM: Quote from: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:00:12 AM
It's a legal bull since I shot it in New Mexico in 2013 on a any elk tag.
really?
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:10:12 AM: Yes.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Ccortez on November 08, 2014, 09:14:44 AM: Quote from: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
Yes.
that's an awesome bull :tup:. did you do a shoulder mount or European?
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 08, 2014, 09:15:44 AM: Here, I took some of the steepness out of that hill you were climbing. :chuckle:

Nice bull!!
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: fly4fish on November 08, 2014, 09:24:17 AM: Wow, it looks bigger on your back! Awesome bull!

Now that I see that 3rd point, maybe he would not be legal in a WA spike only unit.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:25:45 AM: Here's another pic that will show the distance from the base. Although he did not have a burr at the bottom of his horn. Thanks for correcting previous pic.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:32:03 AM: I skull capped him and brought him out of the wilderness. Probably just horn mount him. His G1 is 24". If he would have matched up on both sides, given a 40" spread he would have just missed 370". Cool bull bull to look at though.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 08, 2014, 09:33:08 AM: Sweet bull.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:52:37 AM: Here's a pic of the distance from the hair line to the tine. You guys can decide if it would be legal to shoot if it were a WA bull in a spike area. Just to make sure...this bull was taken in NM.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 09:54:52 AM: Other side.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 08, 2014, 10:10:08 AM: Quote from: fly4fish on November 08, 2014, 09:24:17 AM
Wow, it looks bigger on your back! Awesome bull!

Now that I see that 3rd point, maybe he would not be legal in a WA spike only unit.

:yeah:

Seeing that little point towards the top end, compared to the bow limb next to it, would disqualify him I believe in Washington as a legal spike I'd say.

Would be darn hard to see that one at any distance in a hunting situation...
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 11:21:39 AM: That point is about 1/2". Thought the question was how far from the base does the first point branch?
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 08, 2014, 11:28:23 AM: Awesome bull in a spike, any bull, or other unit. Nice job Rubbles!
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 08, 2014, 11:46:18 AM: Quote from: RubblesPH on November 08, 2014, 11:21:39 AM
That point is about 1/2". Thought the question was how far from the base does the first point branch?

Correct about that, and the brow tine is well inside the legal limit.

The other part of the question/requirement to be legal here is Washington's definition of a countable point.

That is any "point" that is 1" or longer is considered a countable point under the law, so if it were to be 1" or longer, then as Washington currently define it, that would be a two point, not counting the brow tine.

Since it appears to be well under 1" in your follow-up picture, it would be okay, but how easy would that be to determine in a hunting situation with the live bull standing there at pretty much any hunting range?
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Mike450r on November 08, 2014, 12:18:50 PM: I have seen them measure an antler point at a check station. They start the tape where the point begins on the main beam and go to the end of the point. If you run as straight of an edge as you can on the main beam you would start the measurement where it begins to deviate from that edge. A point that looks like a half inch can become over an inch real easy with that type of measuring and impossible to tell on the fly.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: fly4fish on November 08, 2014, 06:33:26 PM: Looks like he is a WA legal spike. I'd be incredibly proud of that bull with any tag, any state!
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: RubblesPH on November 12, 2014, 01:03:47 PM: Thanks for the comments on the bull. He's unique for sure. I only got a glimpse of his good side and took the shot that was offered (50yds). He piled up after 40yards and I was initially disappointed when I walked up on him. It only took a few moments to change my opinion.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Mxracer532 on November 19, 2014, 07:16:50 PM: Quote from: RubblesPH on November 12, 2014, 01:03:47 PM
Thanks for the comments on the bull. He's unique for sure. I only got a glimpse of his good side and took the shot that was offered (50yds). He piled up after 40yards and I was initially disappointed when I walked up on him. It only took a few moments to change my opinion.
Congrates! Bada$$ bull IMO.

BUT your quiver is upside down! :chuckle:
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: Mhamil on November 20, 2014, 07:27:23 AM: That is a cool bull, but not as nice as this years, where are the pics of that bull
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: sakoshooter on November 24, 2014, 05:40:48 PM: Yep. Perfectly legal. Nothing branching above the ear on his R side.
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: gunnarnewt on November 26, 2014, 10:10:02 AM: definitely lega. He's going down IMO :o
Title: Re: who'd shoot this in a spike area.
Post by: boneaddict on November 26, 2014, 10:23:51 AM: I've seen a bull in the clock just like him on an off the last couple years. I always thought he was awesome and marveled at his success for living. Very cool trophy.