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Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Netminder01 on December 03, 2014, 03:13:31 PM


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Title: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 03, 2014, 03:13:31 PM
I don't recall ever seeing - or hearing of a doe with a rack as seen here:  [url=http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583]http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583 (http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583)[/url]

A mature doe with female parts yet a wide typical rack found on a male. I'm sure the more experienced folks on here have heard of this before, but genetically I can't think of too many other species (some) with documented examples of a unisex offspring beyond a few examples but never a mammal.

Can anyone provide context as to frequency, genetic disposition, cause, etc? Curious from a biology & wildlife perspective.

Thanks,

Net.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: h20hunter on December 03, 2014, 03:14:59 PM
There was just a thread here recently. Had a pic and the clue was "what is wrong with this deer".
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 03, 2014, 03:15:34 PM
There was just a thread here recently. Had a pic and the clue was "what is wrong with this deer".

Damn - I did a search but I probably entered the wrong string. I'll keep digging.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 03, 2014, 03:17:57 PM
There was just a thread here recently. Had a pic and the clue was "what is wrong with this deer".

Damn - I did a search but I probably entered the wrong string. I'll keep digging.

This one? Doesn't seem to be the same thing... http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,128675.msg1712007.html#msg1712007 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,128675.msg1712007.html#msg1712007)
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Igor on December 03, 2014, 03:37:05 PM
I don't recall ever seeing - or hearing of a doe with a rack as seen here: http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583. (http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583.)

A mature doe with female parts yet a wide typical rack found on a male. I'm sure the more experienced folks on here have heard of this before, but genetically I can't think of too many other species (some) with documented examples of a unisex offspring beyond a few examples but never a mammal.

Can anyone provide context as to frequency, genetic disposition, cause, etc? Curious from a biology & wildlife perspective.

Thanks,

Net.

Your link does not work, but I believe the proper term for such a deer is a "hermaphrodite".
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 03, 2014, 03:50:10 PM
I don't recall ever seeing - or hearing of a doe with a rack as seen here: http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583. (http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news-channel/hunter-bags-a-very-rare-trophy-361774659583.)

A mature doe with female parts yet a wide typical rack found on a male. I'm sure the more experienced folks on here have heard of this before, but genetically I can't think of too many other species (some) with documented examples of a unisex offspring beyond a few examples but never a mammal.

Can anyone provide context as to frequency, genetic disposition, cause, etc? Curious from a biology & wildlife perspective.

Thanks,

Net.

Your link does not work, but I believe the proper term for such a deer is a "hermaphrodite".


Fixed - thanks!


Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: LeviD1 on December 03, 2014, 11:01:19 PM
I had a doe on my cam at my parents property this past summer that had a little ball of antler on its left side. She had twins though so she's a good breaded  :tup:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on December 04, 2014, 05:05:31 AM
I heard a lot of those are running around King County :hello:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 04, 2014, 07:24:03 AM
I heard a lot of those are running around King County :hello:

All over the place on the westside for sure!
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: UptheCreek on December 04, 2014, 07:35:47 AM
i have had 3 different does on cam within the past year with antlers.   One of them is a multipointer!
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: fishnfur on December 04, 2014, 08:30:50 AM
From the Virginia Dept. of Wildlife webpage:

    There are two types of antlered does. The first are female deer with velvet-covered antlers. These animals usually have normal female reproductive tracts and are capable of bearing fawns. The second type is female deer with polished antlers. These animals are actually male pseudo-hermaphrodites. They have the external genitalia of a female, but have male sex organs internally. Antlered does are extremely rare, with probably only one or two killed annually by deer hunters in Virginia.

Google hermaphrodite - you can read all about the genetics, occurences etc.  What fun! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on December 04, 2014, 08:43:49 AM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 04, 2014, 08:48:44 AM
From the Virginia Dept. of Wildlife webpage:

    There are two types of antlered does. The first are female deer with velvet-covered antlers. These animals usually have normal female reproductive tracts and are capable of bearing fawns. The second type is female deer with polished antlers. These animals are actually male pseudo-hermaphrodites. They have the external genitalia of a female, but have male sex organs internally. Antlered does are extremely rare, with probably only one or two killed annually by deer hunters in Virginia.

Google hermaphrodite - you can read all about the genetics, occurrences etc.  What fun! :rolleyes:

Thanks Fish!

So given this, seems like the tag applied incorrectly as a doe by the DFW to the deer in the video; correct?
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: fishnfur on December 04, 2014, 09:45:23 AM
I don't think it really matters what you call it - buck or doe, it's one messed up deer !   I wonder what that thing did when it had a hot doe in front of it???? :yike:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: PA BEN on December 04, 2014, 12:30:01 PM
There was a picture of this muledeer on the wdfw web site but I can't find it.
Doe! Hunter shoots antlered mule deer lass

 November 10, 2002

 SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) — Hunting in unfamiliar territory, Joe Kiefer was thrilled to bag a 250-pound mule deer with symmetrical antlers, each with five points and 18 inches wide.

 Then, when he went to butcher the animal, excitement gave way to amazement.

 "There were no male parts down there," Kiefer said. "It looked like a male at the head end, but the undercarriage was all female."

 Kiefer, 31, of Chewelah, never expected anything like the antlered doe he shot recently in Douglas County in the central part of Washington state.

 "Most people don't believe the deer came from Eastern Washington," he joked. "They think it has to be a cross-dressing city slicker from Seattle."

 The first clue that this was no ordinary deer was that most of the velvet was still on the antlers. Bucks rub off the velvet on trees, brush and saplings at the start of the mating season in late summer.

 "I took lots more pictures because I knew no one would believe me," Kiefer said.

 Jack Reneau, record keeper for the Boone and Crockett Club in Missoula, Mont., said he had never heard of such a big-antlered doe. The club will solicit information on its Web site to try to determine whether Kiefer's kill is a world record for does.

 According to the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, antlers appear on about one in 20,000 whitetails, but information on the occurrence in mule deer is more sparse.

 Kiefer said a Washington state wildlife biologist told him a female deer occasionally sprouts one or two fuzzy spikes.

 In any event, the kill was legal. Kiefer's buck tag was valid because state hunting regulations refer to "antlered deer" and "antlerless deer," rather than to bucks and does — precisely for such situations.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Band on December 06, 2014, 10:45:57 AM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.
That's what you call an elk with 2 racks. ;)
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: robescc on December 06, 2014, 04:55:22 PM
Even though I am sure there is nothing wrong with the meat, I couldn't bring myself to eat it and I'll eat anything.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: wadu1 on December 06, 2014, 05:14:57 PM
Even though I am sure there is nothing wrong with the meat, I couldn't bring myself to eat it and I'll eat anything.
Why not --- they taste like chicken  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Netminder01 on December 07, 2014, 10:22:24 AM
Even though I am sure there is nothing wrong with the meat, I couldn't bring myself to eat it and I'll eat anything.

I would've tried it, paired with a nice whiskey!
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Bofire on December 07, 2014, 06:23:39 PM
Most of the rules are about antlered or not, not sex. which is why keeping proof of sex attached never made any sense to me. :dunno:
Carl
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 07, 2014, 06:29:57 PM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.

brings a new meaning to "true spike"   :chuckle:

Sucker's leg sure broke hard.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on December 08, 2014, 12:19:49 PM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.

brings a new meaning to "true spike"   :chuckle:

Sucker's leg sure broke hard.

Yeah, somebody was a bit shaky on a follow up shot  :chuckle:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 08, 2014, 10:10:17 PM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.

brings a new meaning to "true spike"   :chuckle:

Sucker's leg sure broke hard.

At least it wasn't the first shot   :chuckle:

Nice elk, how big was it?

Yeah, somebody was a bit shaky on a follow up shot  :chuckle:
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on December 09, 2014, 09:59:33 PM
Spike bull cow taken during early muzzleloader this year in Manastash.

brings a new meaning to "true spike"   :chuckle:

Sucker's leg sure broke hard.

At least it wasn't the first shot   :chuckle:

Nice elk, how big was it?

Yeah, somebody was a bit shaky on a follow up shot  :chuckle:

It was quite large for a spike. Had udders full of milk and a calf cow that didn't want to leave.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Tight Spin on December 10, 2014, 07:34:30 AM
My son shot a buck in velvet last year in Montana in Nov that had a pecker but no testicules
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: fish vacuum on December 12, 2014, 07:18:31 PM
My son shot a buck in velvet last year in Montana in Nov that had a pecker but no testicules
I've read that they will remain in velvet if their testicles get injured. Something about not producing the hormones that cause the velvet to stop growing and fall off.
Title: Re: A Doe / Buck hybrid
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 13, 2014, 05:17:08 PM
My son shot a buck in velvet last year in Montana in Nov that had a pecker but no testicules
I've read that they will remain in velvet if their testicles get injured. Something about not producing the hormones that cause the velvet to stop growing and fall off.

It's because when normal bucks shed velvet, their antlers are dying so they can put all testosterone into sperm generation.  When they have no testiculars, the hormones just keep on truckin with the fuzzy velvet.
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