Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 05:27:57 PM
-----------------------
I realize I should have been making this post two months ago, but I didn't get my samples until just this week. I've made a simple mesh hunter orange vest that I hope to be selling for next year's hunting season, but I'd like to get a few outside opinions on it before going into production. Is anybody still going on a hunt this year who would like a free vest for testing? I will send it to you and let you keep it, but I would just ask that you answer a few questions afterwards as to your experience with the vest. The vest size is approximately a men's large. I will have some larger sizes ready early next year.
Send me a pm with your address and what hunt you'll be wearing it on and I'll get one out to you asap.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 07, 2014, 05:32:09 PM
Seems like I have to buy new ones every few years due to poor quality stuff out there.
Pm sent
Post by: brush hunter on December 07, 2014, 05:40:51 PM
Post by: Stickerbush on December 07, 2014, 05:48:22 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 06:04:47 PM
I will further clarify some questions:
The intention of the vest is to be worn over the nice new hunting clothing that are out there. Most orange hunting vests I see are fairly robust which, to me, defeats the purpose of all the money you're spending on high-end Kuiu, Sitka, UA gear. My vest is super lightweight polyester so it will dry quickly and not be bulky. It's basic. Just orange mesh with black trim and a bit of stretch with a velcro tab on the front. But it should be fairly durable. I wore mine all season and tried to destroy it but was only able to get one small hole after tearing through some creek brush in Utah.
I definitely want to make larger sizes, but that will come later in the winter.
I don't know if it would be good for upland hunters because it has no shell or bird pockets or anything? But that is probably up to you more than me!
Here is a picture of the current version:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmsF4wnf.jpg&hash=f9b7df9dfaa7f73052d7bc260642721ede86c7cc)
Post by: bear hunter on December 07, 2014, 06:06:52 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 06:11:45 PM
I could test one for you. XXXL Going Upland bird hunting.
Thanks bear hunter, but just to clarify, right now I only have men's Large available. Hopefully I will have the larger sizes available later this winter. I know that won't be useful for hunting, but maybe I can find some people spending time outdoors and get some feedback. I'll post another note up here when those larger sizes are ready!
Post by: bear hunter on December 07, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
I could test one for you. XXXL Going Upland bird hunting.K
Thanks
Thanks bear hunter, but just to clarify, right now I only have men's Large available. Hopefully I will have the larger sizes available later this winter. I know that won't be useful for hunting, but maybe I can find some people spending time outdoors and get some feedback. I'll post another note up here when those larger sizes are ready!
Post by: GurrCentral on December 07, 2014, 06:39:59 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I will try to get vests out to everybody who has pm'ed me so far.
I will further clarify some questions:
The intention of the vest is to be worn over the nice new hunting clothing that are out there. Most orange hunting vests I see are fairly robust which, to me, defeats the purpose of all the money you're spending on high-end Kuiu, Sitka, UA gear. My vest is super lightweight polyester so it will dry quickly and not be bulky. It's basic. Just orange mesh with black trim and a bit of stretch with a velcro tab on the front. But it should be fairly durable. I wore mine all season and tried to destroy it but was only able to get one small hole after tearing through some creek brush in Utah.
I definitely want to make larger sizes, but that will come later in the winter.
I don't know if it would be good for upland hunters because it has no shell or bird pockets or anything? But that is probably up to you more than me!
Here is a picture of the current version:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmsF4wnf.jpg&hash=f9b7df9dfaa7f73052d7bc260642721ede86c7cc)
I think you are on to something with the lightweight route. Simple, gets the job done, looks to breath and dry quickly, just what is needed on the outside of a layering system. Looking forward to checking these out!
Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 06:47:02 PM
I think you are on to something with the lightweight route. Simple, gets the job done, looks to breath and dry quickly, just what is needed on the outside of a layering system. Looking forward to checking these out!
Great, thanks GurrCentral!
I'm also hoping these might appeal to non-hunters who want something easy to throw on while they are hiking in hunting country during September or October.
Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: Band on December 07, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
I'm also hoping these might appeal to non-hunters who want something easy to throw on while they are hiking in hunting country during September or October.I think you're going to need to educate the non-hunting public about the need and the timing of when they ought to wear an orange vest. Hopefully you have a good plan to figure out that piece of the puzzle.
Out of curiosity, what price point are you shooting for?
Post by: whuppinstick on December 07, 2014, 09:06:29 PM
Out of curiosity, what price point are you shooting for?
I'm hoping for somewhere in the $15-20 range, but I need to work out a lot of numbers first. I will definitely offer them to the Hunting Washington community at a reduced rate first, though.
Post by: mazama on December 08, 2014, 12:27:57 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 08, 2014, 01:45:34 PM
I have worn the same vest since Wa.required hunter orange,i can wad it up and put it in a pocket,mine looks exactly like yours.
I could've used you a few months ago before I paid a seamstress a bunch of money to make me a pattern. :) Do you know if your vest is still sold? I have looked around extensively but I haven't seen anything similar to mine on the market now.
I mailed off all of the samples today, so you field testers should be receiving them in the next day or two. I also included a somewhat lengthy questionnaire. Hopefully it won't take too long to fill out, but definitely skip any questions that are not relevant. Thank you to everybody who volunteered, I hope we can get a solid, lightweight vest on the market by next year!
Post by: MtnMuley on December 08, 2014, 02:32:21 PM
I have worn the same vest since Wa.required hunter orange,i can wad it up and put it in a pocket,mine looks exactly like yours.
I too, am in your same boat. Obviously whuppinstick came up with his own style, but it doesn't seem to differ at all from mine. Super light weight, quiet, mesh, and easily stuffs in your pocket. Wouldn't trade it for any other orange vest that I've had my hands on.
Post by: Band on December 08, 2014, 06:32:17 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 08, 2014, 06:40:00 PM
Mine also looks identical. I bought it at Walmart for $10. Whuppinstick, are you familiar with the Walmart vest and is there something that sets yours apart from it?
I'm not. I checked there last year and they only had cotton-y, ill-fitting vests. Would you mind sending me a picture of yours?
Edit: these are examples of what I saw there: http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hunting-vests (http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hunting-vests)
Post by: MtnMuley on December 08, 2014, 07:11:17 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 08, 2014, 08:04:24 PM
I'll happily mail you one of mine that is all tore up from hauling a bipod around on the rifle several hundred miles.......
You tear mine up in one season and I'll replace it for you. Take that, Wal-Mart!
Post by: MtnMuley on December 08, 2014, 08:17:41 PM
Post by: Band on December 08, 2014, 08:37:45 PM
Im glad you pressed me on this because I now see that there is an important design difference in the vest I have. The sides are cut out and the front and back are connected by elastic straps on the sides. If this design is similar to the vest you saw at Walmart, I'm guessing that this difference is at the heart of your ill fitting comment. Here is a pic of my vest.Mine also looks identical. I bought it at Walmart for $10. Whuppinstick, are you familiar with the Walmart vest and is there something that sets yours apart from it?
I'm not. I checked there last year and they only had cotton-y, ill-fitting vests. Would you mind sending me a picture of yours?
Edit: these are examples of what I saw there: http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hunting-vests (http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hunting-vests)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee465%2FDipsnort%2Fimagejpg1-4.jpg&hash=a72634e84bf9ea7464177352ae88bdc4afde87bc)
In case you're interested, it is 100% polyester and the brand name is Breaux. Made in China - no surprise there.
Edited to add: I just found my previous vest that I used for years that did look identical to yours (when new) but it's ripped up pretty badly, quite faded, and missing the tag. It's so old that I don't recall where I got it or how much I paid. I think I got my 2 vests confused in my earlier comment.
Post by: whuppinstick on December 08, 2014, 10:16:15 PM
Im glad you pressed me on this because I now see that there is an important design difference in the vest I have. The sides are cut out and the front and back are connected by elastic straps on the sides. If this design is similar to the vest you saw at Walmart, I'm guessing that this difference is at the heart of your ill fitting comment. Here is a pic of my vest.
Thanks for providing the picture! Yes, I have seen that vest before, but mine is a step or two up in quality and fit. The elastic on that vest will wear or stretch out quickly, I would think. Also, my velcro closure on the front is fairly robust.
I suppose I shouldn't talk my vest up too much until I hear back from the field testers, haha. Might have some work to do yet!
Post by: 400out on December 09, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 09, 2014, 11:56:24 AM
-Steve
Post by: Buckmark on December 09, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
I do have one that is all mesh and agree with jackofalltrades it is a branch grabber...
Post by: 400out on December 09, 2014, 01:00:09 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 09, 2014, 01:13:48 PM
In my experience, Velcro doesn't last in the field on an outer garment. Anything worn that is a mesh will get caught on brush/brambles. I have a 50/50cotton/poly/camo vest that is quite worn out. The elastic on the sides is tied in a knot and I've removed the Velcro front and sewn in two lengths of parachute cord to tie it closed. I have some 25 hunting seasons on this garment.
-Steve
Thanks for your thoughts, Steve! I am still open to ideas on the Velcro closure on the front, but I would lean towards it being simple and able to be handled with gloves rather than something that needs to be tied. Maybe I will allow special orders for those who prefer a tie?
And I agree that mesh can get caught on brush. I actually purposely did an eight-mile canyon walk in Utah this fall with my vest to see what kind of damage I could make. I did get one small hole during an especially strong plow through the brush, but it held up surprisingly well considering. BUT, my hope after I get this mesh vest off the ground is to produce a softshell vest in the future. That would probably be a better option for heavy brush hunters.
Post by: whuppinstick on December 09, 2014, 01:19:24 PM
So it's not a joke :dunno: :dunno: I have a bunch of these already that the kids wear :dunno: :dunno:
Nope, not a joke! I have seen mesh vests before, but I think my model will improve on what is currently on the market. It won't be for everybody (like those who are happy with the options at Wal-Mart), but I am hopeful that enough people will see the value in a higher quality vest. I might fail, but I am going to try.
Post by: sirmissalot on December 09, 2014, 03:27:24 PM
Post by: kevinlisa06 on December 09, 2014, 09:09:10 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Stickerbush on December 11, 2014, 12:55:19 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 12, 2014, 09:51:26 AM
-lightweight poly pro but not mesh
-closed up on the sides
-zipper or snaps for the front
-zips or snaps up to at least sternum adding more material so a smaller guys vest can meet legal requirements, that way the gamies in CO will stop giving a guy grief :chuckle:
-MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-did I mention MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would pay north of $20 bucks for a vest like this without batting an eye! Keep us all posted when when your vests become available, I will buy multiples. FWIW, I have cheapo Bi-mart vests and yoursdont appear to be that, good work!
Post by: Tbar on December 12, 2014, 11:28:31 AM
The only thing I would think of changing, and that would be purely situational, is the velcro closure. The closure on this vest is very robust (as stated). For daily hunts I feel it's an excellent design. I am not a huge fan of velcro as it is guaranteed to fail eventually, but for lack of a better option, think it's the best fit for this product. If I'm backpacking into the wilderness I would suggest an option with no closure at all (when shaving ounces). The fit and material would probably suffice as it seems to cling (which I really like) to your outer garment.
Although this was a VERY limited test, 5 hours afield and about 10 miles, I am impressed so far. I will give a final review after more punishing tests. I've attached a couple pics to give an idea of terrain and weather conditions (it was nasty yesterday).
Post by: baker5150 on December 12, 2014, 11:55:30 AM
In my experience, Velcro doesn't last in the field on an outer garment. Anything worn that is a mesh will get caught on brush/brambles. I have a 50/50cotton/poly/camo vest that is quite worn out. The elastic on the sides is tied in a knot and I've removed the Velcro front and sewn in two lengths of parachute cord to tie it closed. I have some 25 hunting seasons on this garment.
-Steve
Thanks for your thoughts, Steve! I am still open to ideas on the Velcro closure on the front, but I would lean towards it being simple and able to be handled with gloves rather than something that needs to be tied. Maybe I will allow special orders for those who prefer a tie?
And I agree that mesh can get caught on brush. I actually purposely did an eight-mile canyon walk in Utah this fall with my vest to see what kind of damage I could make. I did get one small hole during an especially strong plow through the brush, but it held up surprisingly well considering. BUT, my hope after I get this mesh vest off the ground is to produce a softshell vest in the future. That would probably be a better option for heavy brush hunters.
I would agree that Velcro is a weak link.
I have tested a lot of backcountry ski/snowboard gear for a local company, and they switched all their Velcro stuff to magnets.
It works great, two small magnets built into the garment that are reasonably high powered. Easy on and off and quiet as can be. Velcro was useless once it got full of snow or small bits of debris like moss and lycan, and loud. Don't need to hear that rip of Velcro while in a tree stand.
Post by: GurrCentral on December 12, 2014, 12:20:26 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 12, 2014, 01:17:25 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 12, 2014, 03:25:41 PM
I would agree that Velcro is a weak link.
I have tested a lot of backcountry ski/snowboard gear for a local company, and they switched all their Velcro stuff to magnets.
It works great, two small magnets built into the garment that are reasonably high powered. Easy on and off and quiet as can be. Velcro was useless once it got full of snow or small bits of debris like moss and lycan, and loud. Don't need to hear that rip of Velcro while in a tree stand.
Thanks for your thoughts, baker5150! The magnet idea is a very interesting one. I have seen that on bino harnesses but not yet clothing. I will check with my supplier and see if we can do it!
Post by: whuppinstick on December 12, 2014, 03:33:15 PM
I think your on to something here! I have NEVER had a vest that I liked! They always fit like crap! The sides are open and get twisted up and bunched up, etc. I was actually just talking to my mom about sewing me the perfect vest (she is a pro seamstress). Here is what I wanted:
-lightweight poly pro but not mesh
-closed up on the sides
-zipper or snaps for the front
-zips or snaps up to at least sternum adding more material so a smaller guys vest can meet legal requirements, that way the gamies in CO will stop giving a guy grief :chuckle:
-MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-did I mention MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would pay north of $20 bucks for a vest like this without batting an eye! Keep us all posted when when your vests become available, I will buy multiples. FWIW, I have cheapo Bi-mart vests and yoursdont appear to be that, good work!
Your thoughts are noted, BLRman! I don't think I am creating magic here, just trying to put a little effort into it and get something that complements all the expensive clothing we're buying these days. Most of the vests I have seen are either junk or way too much vest (and made of materials that are not good when wet).
I am looking into doing a non-mesh version as soon as I get the mesh one sorted out. I may do something stretchy like spandex (but not spandex)? I do also want to do some softshell material at some point.
Can I ask why you prefer a zipper or snaps for the front? Or is it just a dislike for Velcro? I have an aversion to ANYTHING that makes noise (my current bino harness makes a slight squeaking sound when I exhale and it drives me nuts) and I'm afraid zippers or snaps would tap against a rifle that is carried across the front. Though I suppose if you use a traditional rifle strap this wouldn't be an issue. What would your thoughts be on magnets?
Post by: gaddy on December 12, 2014, 03:41:03 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 12, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 12, 2014, 05:30:45 PM
I was thinking that if it was closed up more in front it would keep it from bunching and catching. For me (personal hunting style) I'm not snapping or unzipping my vest during those critical moments when noise is an issue. I'm taking my vest on and off only while stripping layers, but while this occures I'm also stripping a pack, undoing buckles on the pack to put the layers away, stripping bino's, etc. A little zip or snap isn't gonna be an issue. Gun could possibly clink on it but there is plenty of other stuff on my body that could do the same thing. If i'm close enough for a deer to hear this, he is already dead. I could see where timber hunting could be a different issue though. When I"m in the timber its chasing elk with my bow so the vest would not be worn.I think your on to something here! I have NEVER had a vest that I liked! They always fit like crap! The sides are open and get twisted up and bunched up, etc. I was actually just talking to my mom about sewing me the perfect vest (she is a pro seamstress). Here is what I wanted:
-lightweight poly pro but not mesh
-closed up on the sides
-zipper or snaps for the front
-zips or snaps up to at least sternum adding more material so a smaller guys vest can meet legal requirements, that way the gamies in CO will stop giving a guy grief :chuckle:
-MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-did I mention MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would pay north of $20 bucks for a vest like this without batting an eye! Keep us all posted when when your vests become available, I will buy multiples. FWIW, I have cheapo Bi-mart vests and yoursdont appear to be that, good work!
Your thoughts are noted, BLRman! I don't think I am creating magic here, just trying to put a little effort into it and get something that complements all the expensive clothing we're buying these days. Most of the vests I have seen are either junk or way too much vest (and made of materials that are not good when wet).
I am looking into doing a non-mesh version as soon as I get the mesh one sorted out. I may do something stretchy like spandex (but not spandex)? I do also want to do some softshell material at some point.
Can I ask why you prefer a zipper or snaps for the front? Or is it just a dislike for Velcro? I have an aversion to ANYTHING that makes noise (my current bino harness makes a slight squeaking sound when I exhale and it drives me nuts) and I'm afraid zippers or snaps would tap against a rifle that is carried across the front. Though I suppose if you use a traditional rifle strap this wouldn't be an issue. What would your thoughts be on magnets?
If you could get magnets to work that would be cool. I have had them on turkey vests in the past and they always worked well. I don't know how they would work on an article of clothing that was loose and didn't "line up" like a pocket though. On my turkey vest they were on the large front pockets. The pocket flaps were a heavier material and of course sewn in place. Pocket flap doesn't move left or right, it just goes up and down. Let the flap go and the magnet falls right into place. On a vest, you would have to line up the magnets manually, which could be a pain with gloves on. Pretty small issue in my book. Probably no more difficult than lining up a zipper, snapping a snap, or playing with Velcro.
I think material and quality of the product are most important. Smaller stuff like the closure mechanism aren't as important (at least to me). Every one of us is going to have a particular preference on what we like. Velcro is def the most cost effective way to go. I have had my mom sew new velcro on some of my vests in the past even. Cut off the old stuff and sew on some new. Velcro wouldn't stop me from buying a vest that fit well, not for a second.
Like I said before, made in America is one of my biggest priorities anymore. Its damn hard to find anything with the stars and stripes on the tag.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 12, 2014, 05:33:22 PM
Post by: GurrCentral on December 12, 2014, 05:34:41 PM
Post by: dmv9 on December 12, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Post by: whuppinstick on December 12, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
You've definitely got it figured out about absolutely nothing that makes noise, whuppinstick. The magnet might be the ticket. Velcro works good, but the attachment points (sew job) would have to be very well done. Most aren't. Something to think about: once you put it on, how many times will the importance of taking it off and on be an issue? For me, it's basically never unless I'm swapping clothes or adding a coat, and by doing that I'm not worries about a velcro noise or a second longer to tie. Spandex might be nice, and things that stretch are usually nice, but I would worry about it creeping up, much like certain kinds of elastic banded sweatshirts do. Just thoughts.
Lots of good points coming up, guys. Thanks so much for your input.
gaddy: You bring up a good thought. I will have to try and get a couple of samples with magnets and see if they stick to the gun. I use a Safari Sling so this would be a concern to me, just as having a zipper, buttons, or anything else plastic or nylon on the front would be.
MtnMuley: The velcro attachments on my current vest are very strong - probably as strong as they could be. I'll get you a sample so you can see. I agree with you regarding the noise when taking the vest off. The 'screech' of Velcro isn't such a concern to me because the only time that is happening is when I'm choosing for it to happen (i.e. adding/removing layers). Thanks for your input on spandex and thoughts on it creeping up. I have found a material that is both stretchy and somewhat loose that might work, but.. I'm not sure. Likely this will take a lot of back-and-forth with my supplier to see what is available.
BLRman: Good points on the magnets lining up. I will have to do some thinking on this and experiment with different designs. I would think that if the magnets were good all you'd have to do is get them close to each other and then they'd grab? But then if they are that strong you may encounter problems with the metal on the gun if you're using a Safari Sling?? This will just take some experimentation and testing to solve.
GurrCentral: I will check out Drake waterfowl. Thanks!
I'm producing small enough quantities and have enough flexibility with production that I don't see any reason (at least at this juncture) why I can't produce vests with a couple different closures. I think there is definitely a market for Velcro, but maybe also for just a simple string to tie together. And I'll be simultaneously working on magnets to add to the collection.
Thanks for all your input guys! I'm working on making some larger sizes while I await feedback from the field testers.
Post by: arifleman on December 13, 2014, 05:54:23 AM
BTW, I have one old mesh among several in my hunting box, and that mesh vest is always the first one grabbed.
Post by: 400out on December 13, 2014, 11:45:41 AM