Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: erk444 on December 08, 2014, 01:37:38 PM

Title: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on December 08, 2014, 01:37:38 PM: I've been wanting to get a traditional muzzy for a while now. I found a cabelas 50 cal Hawkins at a pawn shop that doesn't even look like it's been shot for $200 (negotiable). I also found a lyman plains 45 cal for the same price (firm). I think I read somewhere that the cabelas was made by lyman? I'm kinda thinking the Hawkins would be a better buy as its a 50 cal. Just throwing it out there to see what you guys think.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Harleysboss on December 08, 2014, 03:42:33 PM: You are pretty much correct on the manufacture Invest arms of Italy made rifles for cabelas and Lyman. I would go with the larger caliber for a hunting gun but they are both of similar quality. I have a Lyman trade rifle in 54 cal and it shoots great.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: oneshot12 on December 08, 2014, 03:49:32 PM: think I would go with the 50 cal have friends who have shot the very same rifle for years they have had no complaints shoot round ball real well and will hit pretty much anything they want out to 100 yards no problem shoot good tight groups .better for elk and deer I think :twocents:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on December 09, 2014, 07:49:02 PM: Well, I went with the Hawkins. Got it for $184 after tax. I feel like I got a great deal due to the condition of the gun. Now I cant wait to go shoot it and work up a round! Thanks for the info Harleysboss and oneshot12 :tup:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: bobcat on December 09, 2014, 07:55:25 PM: That should be a great muzzleloader. I know they have a pretty good reputation, and I don't believe they're available anymore. Great choice, and the price was sure right!
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Dan-o on January 04, 2015, 12:54:21 AM: I had one just like it for years. LOVED IT.

It would shoot Maxiballs into ragged one hole patterns at 75 yards.

I know some folks don't like Maxiballs, but when they go through heart/lungs the animal dies (just like other bullets).
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on January 04, 2015, 09:40:23 AM: is the bore clean? Picture of the bore looks odd for some reason.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Tree Killer on January 04, 2015, 10:11:30 AM: I have a Cabela's Hawkins .54 cal and it shoots awesome! Have had it about 20 years and have never had an issue with it. :tup:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on January 04, 2015, 03:33:57 PM: The bore is awesome, I don't think it was ever shot before. I finally got to shoot it yesterday and it was a blast! I think I'm going to put a musket nipple on it though cause it wasn't very consistent on ignition. I had misfires, hang fires, and everything in between :chuckle:. But that's part of it I guess. I used the CCI #11 magnum caps the Sabotloader likes, but it was about 50% on ignition. When I cleaned it, I got a little brown oily stuff on the first few patches as well as the gunk from the powder which makes me think it hadn't been shot before? Seemed like the stuff they put on metal to protect it from rusting? I also noticed the wooden ram rod was perfect before I shot and now it has a few scuff marks. It was pretty accurate out to around 50 yards when it went off. Maybe now that its clean it will be a little more reliable? I don't think I'll hunt with it until I can make sure its more consistent on ignition, but I would love to shoot a deer with it! I put 20 rounds through it and I only ran 2 or 3 spit patches the whole time. It was pretty easy to load every time too. I'm using .495 round balls and lubed patches, but I don't know how thick the patches are? I think a thicker patch may be better to get a tighter fit but, being new to patch and ball, I'm not quite sure? Guess I'll just have to shoot a lot more to find out :tup:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on January 04, 2015, 04:28:30 PM: thats sub powders for you. Get some real black and you'll never look back.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: wadu1 on January 04, 2015, 04:41:06 PM: I have a Cabela's Hawkins .50 cal and it shoots awesome. I use 80 GR of 2FFG with a 360 GR Buffalo bullet and RWS #11 caps and a Uncle Mikes Hot Shot Nipple and have never had a miss-fire in 20 years. Stick with real BP and good nipple cap combo. :twocents:
I also shoot a Thompson .54 Hawkins also with 2FFG, Buffalo bullets and a Uncle Mikes Hot Shot, one failure I used someone's CCI cap on a Bull Elk and the darn thing needed two hammer blows to set it off.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: usmc74 on January 04, 2015, 04:43:25 PM: Take that tiny side screw out (just below the nipple). You can make sure the flash hole into the barrel is clear. Might put a little anti-seize on it so you can get it back out again later.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on January 04, 2015, 04:53:07 PM: I tried to get that screw out, but its in there pretty good. I thought it was a set screw that held the nipple in, but sounds like its not :chuckle: Guess I got a lot to learn! I didn't try to hard cause I was still able to get the nipple out, so I'll give it another try. Thanks for the info. I use 777 FFg and have never had a misfire with my bighorn so I figured it would work with this rifle too, but maybe I'll try some real black powder.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on January 04, 2015, 05:05:08 PM: Just took that little screw out and ran a bottle brush through there. Anti seized it up and put it back in. Hopefully I can get her to go off a little better next time! Thanks for the info guys :tup:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: T-Bone on January 05, 2015, 08:27:39 AM: Use some real blackpowder or some Pyrodex RS Select.

Take the nipple out after each shooting and drop it into some super hot, mildly soapy water. I just put mine in the same large bowl as the one I am using to clean the barrel. Upon removal from the water, dry it off and look into the nipple hole; if you see light, great, lightly lube the threads with BoreButter or a similar product. Again, naver use modern, products with petroleum distalates or you get corrosion.

You had way too many misfires. I suspect the wrong powder and a blocked nipple hole. I shoot a .54 cal. T/C R. with #11 caps and Pyrodex RS Select…No misfires. At the range, a quick swipe with a patch with blackpowder solvent followed by a dry patch or two after about three shot intervals is a good idea, as well.

Tom
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on January 05, 2015, 09:12:07 AM: what causes those lymans to misfire is the fact that the powder channel is very small and Pyrodex RS, American Pioneer, Triple 7 powder is bulky and clogs up the powder channel and does not allow it to flow under the nipple. Which to a finer grade of sub powder like 3f or pyrodex P. Goex 2f has no trouble like this because its smaller in granulation and is the real stuff which goes BANG. Not pop,boom. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Gobble on January 05, 2015, 09:26:09 AM: I too have a Lyman Trade rifle in .54 cal, Its a great gun, Yours looks great!
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Sabotloader on January 05, 2015, 09:52:07 AM: Quote from: erk444 on January 04, 2015, 03:33:57 PM
The bore is awesome, I don't think it was ever shot before. I finally got to shoot it yesterday and it was a blast! I think I'm going to put a musket nipple on it though cause it wasn't very consistent on ignition. I had misfires, hang fires, and everything in between :chuckle:. But that's part of it I guess. I used the CCI #11 magnum caps the Sabotloader likes, but it was about 50% on ignition. When I cleaned it, I got a little brown oily stuff on the first few patches as well as the gunk from the powder which makes me think it hadn't been shot before? Seemed like the stuff they put on metal to protect it from rusting? I also noticed the wooden ram rod was perfect before I shot and now it has a few scuff marks. It was pretty accurate out to around 50 yards when it went off. Maybe now that its clean it will be a little more reliable? I don't think I'll hunt with it until I can make sure its more consistent on ignition, but I would love to shoot a deer with it! I put 20 rounds through it and I only ran 2 or 3 spit patches the whole time. It was pretty easy to load every time too. I'm using .495 round balls and lubed patches, but I don't know how thick the patches are? I think a thicker patch may be better to get a tighter fit but, being new to patch and ball, I'm not quite sure? Guess I'll just have to shoot a lot more to find out :tup:

Can you get the small clean-out screw in the bolster and under the nipple out? If that will come out you can get a very good look at the flash channel to the powder. Make sure that is clear.

Also when you pour the powder in - lean the rifle to favor the hammer side of the rifle and after 5-10 grains of powder are down - Tap the side of the ML on the opposite side of the hammer. This should cause some of the powder to slide out under the nipple, which will probably fix your reliability problem.

I shoot T7-3f in all of my sidle locks including my Trade Rifle - really after I stopped using Musket caps I have not had any problems.
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: C-Money on January 05, 2015, 10:14:31 AM: Nice find! looks like a great rifle for an excellent price!
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 05, 2015, 10:20:30 AM: Quote from: MountainDevil54 on January 05, 2015, 09:12:07 AM
what causes those lymans to misfire is the fact that the powder channel is very small and Pyrodex RS, American Pioneer, Triple 7 powder is bulky and clogs up the powder channel and does not allow it to flow under the nipple. Which to a finer grade of sub powder like 3f or pyrodex P. Goex 2f has no trouble like this because its smaller in granulation and is the real stuff which goes BANG. Not pop,boom. :chuckle:
:yeah: Like Sabotloader said, load powder into rifle, lean to nipple side, hit side of rifle with bullet started a few whacks to get the powder under the nipple, then load your bullet. I use RS and had some loads not go off before I starting doing this.

BTW real nice looking rifle. :tup:
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: erk444 on January 05, 2015, 05:23:13 PM: Wow, thanks for all the input guys :tup: I did get the screw out and cleaned the channel really well with a bottle brush. I think the finer powder idea is gonna make all the difference. I'll stick with the #11s and give that a try. I did start tapping my barrel and that may have helped a little, but I think the main problem is I didn't clean the gun first. I bet it will be a lot better next time with everything I've learned here. Thanks!
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on January 05, 2015, 06:34:21 PM: Yep finer grade powder like 3f WILL help you out a lot.

Lyman/Investarms breech plug design shows you why the larger granule powders clog up the bolster and do not flow under the nipple.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1331.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw581%2FFrontierMuzzleloading%2FSnapshot000001_zps19f9e683.jpg&hash=97785a327ec3980aab671b4149d3f33e9ca28746)

CVA at least with their bolster set up, created a funnel shape bolster when they drill/tap it into the barrel. This helps greatly with the powder flowing a lot more consistently.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1331.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw581%2FFrontierMuzzleloading%2FTraditional%2FSnapshot000001_zps0c767135.jpg&hash=d6806c399f5cd233013b889341bfbdf6d3b98e15)
Title: Re: Cabelas Hawkins or Lyman Plains?
Post by: Sabotloader on January 05, 2015, 06:58:15 PM: Quote from: erk444 on January 05, 2015, 05:23:13 PM
Wow, thanks for all the input guys :tup: I did get the screw out and cleaned the channel really well with a bottle brush. I think the finer powder idea is gonna make all the difference. I'll stick with the #11s and give that a try. I did start tapping my barrel and that may have helped a little, but I think the main problem is I didn't clean the gun first. I bet it will be a lot better next time with everything I've learned here. Thanks!

I am hoping you are using #11 Mag Caps not regular #11's the are a bit weak on heat and pressure. Another great alternative is the RWS 1075+