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Other Activities => Equestrian & Livestock => Topic started by: Bigshooter on December 19, 2014, 09:31:51 PM

Title: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Bigshooter on December 19, 2014, 09:31:51 PM: I have a few questions that I hope someone on here can answer for me. I have only ever raised standard market breeds for butcher. I have been doing some research on heritage breeds and everyone says that the heritage breeds are better eating. So here come my questions.

1. Has anyone ever raised and ate a heritage breed hog? Do you think it taste better than other hogs you have raised?

2. What would be a good heritage breed to buy and raise for butcher? I want a larger breed, I want it to be able to grow large enough to hang at 200lbs.

3. How slow growing are heritage breeds?

4. I am leaning toward berkshire, should I look at something else?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Whitpirate on December 19, 2014, 09:41:43 PM: I had good luck with Berkshire gains and raised a pair of Hereford hogs three years ago. Currently looking at some large black stock. Gains are slower and fat content much different from standard commercial breeds but it you utilize the whole hog and not just the big money cuts it makes for a pretty good experience. That said I've got 4 Yorkshire/Landraise hogs going now finishing in first week of March. I want a 220-250 pig if I can get then.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Bigshooter on December 19, 2014, 10:00:12 PM: Do you think the berkshire taste better? I have some hamp/york cross that are going to be ready come February. What is the difference in taste, muscle, and fat between what I have and the berkshire? Why do you want to try the large black breed?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Whitpirate on December 20, 2014, 06:53:59 AM: Berks have more intramuscular fat and are a darker color. Looking at large blacks for a ham experiment I want to do. The pigs you got are going to be great but more white meat than dark if you look at it like poultry. I do a feeding program and not a breeding one so I raise what peaks my interest.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 20, 2014, 08:39:19 AM: Hmmm bacon talk. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: nwwanderer on December 20, 2014, 08:52:29 AM: Lots of individual variation, more than from breed to breed. Berks are pretty main stream now, a little slower to start but finish will. Crosses of any background, max three breeds, will thrive better than pure bred. Breed a York/landrace sow to a berk and get a good chance at great growth, 5 months to 300# is possible, outstanding carcass, not so much fat you need three deer to use it up and a feed bill that is manageable. Recently saw a large black cross with 4.5 inches of backfat, a three square inch loin eye and a $250 feed bill, yikes!
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 20, 2014, 08:56:55 AM: I bet that made some good cracklins! :tup:
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: KFhunter on December 20, 2014, 04:26:22 PM: I'm crossing a registered/purebred large black hog sow with a purebred tamworth boar

I haven't butchered any yet, but I've got high expectations. The person I bought the sow from kept back some gilts from her and the boar she was using got injured, so I got a young proven breeding sow with 2 big litters on the ground and zero losses if the person was honest with me.

I'm thinking about keeping the LBH/Tamworth cross gilts and breeding to a berk boar.

I'm going to be eating *A LOT* of pork until I get this down juuuuust right :tup: hahah
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Whitpirate on December 21, 2014, 07:11:33 AM: What's the weight on your boar (estimated)? One of the reasons I have avoided breeding programs currently is the maintenance cost on feeding boars and lactating sows.

Also playing with a fodder growing system this spring and sprouting barley and oats.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: jasnt on December 21, 2014, 07:28:53 AM: Some of our best hogs came for berk/york or hamp /berk mothers and duroc boar. The berk/york mothers are great milk producers and often have more teats as well. The duroc are my fav for eating. The 3way cross gets them growing fast and seem more hardy. For our butcher hogs we feed ground barley and a protein /mineral supplement. Best meat we've ever grown!!
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: jasnt on December 21, 2014, 10:49:27 AM: Quote from: jasnt on December 21, 2014, 07:28:53 AM
Some of our best hogs came for berk/york or hamp /berk mothers and duroc boar. The berk/york mothers are great milk producers and often have more teats as well. The duroc are my fav for eating. The 3way cross gets them growing fast and seem more hardy. For our butcher hogs we feed ground barley and a protein /mineral supplement. Best meat we've ever grown!
the hamp /berk mothers always seemed to have the largest litters. 21 being the biggest I remember with 19 weaning.

corrected breed names above. I always forget the name duroc :dunno:
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: KFhunter on December 21, 2014, 10:39:46 PM: Quote from: Whitpirate on December 21, 2014, 07:11:33 AM
What's the weight on your boar (estimated)? One of the reasons I have avoided breeding programs currently is the maintenance cost on feeding boars and lactating sows.

Also playing with a fodder growing system this spring and sprouting barley and oats.

I figure he's 400+ but he's growing now that I have him, I can't starve a boar like other hog farmers do I guess.

He's getting one coffee can per day of feed and all the oat hay he wants. I'll use him one more time in April then he's gone, I'll either sell him or sausage him.

I've asked my bro's when they come visit if they'll help neuter him to prevent boar taint...they shake their heads and say I'm crazy wanting to tackle that boys' boy's.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Birdguy on December 21, 2014, 10:57:04 PM: If he is at all friendly it can be done pretty easy. We did several up to 800#s growing up. Dad had a piece of 3/8" cable that had loops in each end. He ran one end through the other and put it in the boars mouth behind his tusks on his top jaw while he was eating. He then took the other loop and ran a chain through it that was already hooked to a tire (no wheel) that was chained to a tree. When the boar backed up and realized he was caught he just pulled straight back on the chain. The tire provided a litte buffer for them but they stood pulling as we cut them and threw a few stitches in for good measure. It took several people to move the board forward far enough to unhook the chain. We left the cable in his mouth and it fell out after a few minutes of him walking around with no pressure on it. Primative but effective.

I later had a friend that was a vet tech that came over and gave the last board a shot to slow him down and we used the cable in the mouth just tied to a tree as we were in the field for that one.

I bet if Dad were still here he would drive all the way over to give you directions.......another thing about the guy I miss everyday.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: KFhunter on December 22, 2014, 10:27:21 AM: I've been thinking on it and it needs to be a one man operation, so I'm going to hook the cable to the tractor bucket and lift - cut - then drop and roll the bucket forward so the cable falls off the bucket with a little U latch I have.

I'll have a pair of ear muffs on and use a havalon :chuckle:

They also use this method to saw the tusks off, he's cutting my sow a little on the rumps when he's wanting to mount.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: jasnt on December 22, 2014, 10:37:26 AM: Quote from: KFhunter on December 22, 2014, 10:27:21 AM
I've been thinking on it and it needs to be a one man operation, so I'm going to hook the cable to the tractor bucket and lift - cut - then drop and roll the bucket forward so the cable falls off the bucket with a little U latch I have.

I'll have a pair of ear muffs on and use a havalon :chuckle:

They also use this method to saw the tusks off, he's cutting my sow a little on the rumps when he's wanting to mount.
we've been thinking about a building a squeeze shoot for hogs for just this reason. Those tusk's can get pretty sharp.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Whitpirate on December 22, 2014, 10:41:35 AM: What protein supplement are folks using? I'm trying to avoid soy and corn for customers and whey isn't enough....
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: jasnt on December 22, 2014, 11:39:17 AM: Quote from: Whitpirate on December 22, 2014, 10:41:35 AM
What protein supplement are folks using? I'm trying to avoid soy and corn for customers and whey isn't enough....
we use Purina hog concentrate but I believe it has some soy
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: KFhunter on December 22, 2014, 02:40:43 PM: I'm using sow & hog complete right now, $14 bucks per 50lb sack.

expensive way to go but with all the oat hay I'm feeding I can cut back some on the sacked feed.

eventually I'll have a grinder like this
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.purplewaveauction.com%2Fi%2Fa%2F2011%2F20110330ag%2F6923.JPG&hash=66f879a5a48fa1394703fe7f4dcfd949c76ca786)

it takes whole hay bales and runs it through the hammers, add grains and it'll hammer them too and then pour in a sack of supplement and you've got 100% control of the feed.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: jasnt on December 22, 2014, 03:35:14 PM: That's similar to the grinder we where looking at, we made some huge cuts last year and now down to 2 hogs. Last year we where just under 70 counting the feeder's and weaners. Year before we had a HUGE demand for our hogs that we raised. So we decided to hold back 40 weaners and raise them up to butcher and also sold a few as BBQ hogs.we knew it would be a huge over head to cover at first but we thought we could handle it fine. We grew too fast and the feed bill was as much as a truck payment. Around $500 a month. In the end it turned out well but it wore us out and was he11 on our setup. I think we'll get back up there but slower this time. We need some more hut& yard setups and eventually our own grinder.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: black hog on December 22, 2014, 05:30:58 PM: I raise purebred berkshire hogs I have my own breeding stock I have raised hundreds of different breeds of hogs abd can say Berkshires are amazing they have shorter muscle fibers and marble much better than standard breeds growth is somewhat slower 300 lbs in about 7months on good feed the fat looks different than a standard breed hog also I can pick my hogs out in the butcher shop with lots of other hanging hogs if you would like to talk more pm me and I will give you my number
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: KFhunter on December 23, 2014, 06:31:54 AM: this you?

http://lewiston.craigslist.org/grd/4773916778.html (http://lewiston.craigslist.org/grd/4773916778.html)
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: black hog on December 23, 2014, 03:32:58 PM: Not me but be careful not all of those pigs are berkshire
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Birdguy on December 23, 2014, 09:17:45 PM: Quote from: black hog on December 23, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
Not me but be careful not all of those pigs are berkshire

:yeah: but it does look like the (2)boars they show for sale "look true to breed". I agree a couple hamps in there at least.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Bigshooter on December 24, 2014, 12:44:06 AM: Black Hog I sent you a pm.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: nwwanderer on December 26, 2014, 05:10:16 PM: In the PNW small grains, wheat, barley, triticale, are the norm. If they are good quality, high bushel weights, they are of higher feed value than corn since they usually have more protein. The protein is expensive. Common protein supplements here are peas and canola meal. Peas are about 24% protein, canola 38% and about 80% the value of soybean meal. The local canola meal is expeller meal, it has about 10% fat left in the meal so the energy is much higher than Canadian solvent extracted meal. A vitamin mineral mix supplies all of the little things the pig needs. Water first, feed second and a insulated draftless dry sleeping area third.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 26, 2014, 07:32:08 PM: Any of you guys ever feed brewery mash to your pigs? :dunno:

I did to my beef one year, and it created lots of marbling of the meat.
Title: Re: Heritage Hog Breeds
Post by: nwwanderer on December 27, 2014, 07:53:44 AM: Brewers mash is high in fiber since most of the starch is in the brew, the yeast uses starch to produce alcohol. Protein is higher in the mash but of poor quality for pigs. Great for steers.