Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 02:53:14 PM

Title: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 02:53:14 PM: So lucky gunner has bulk packs of 1000 .357mag 158gr JSP for 600 bucks, which seems like a good price.

http://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-158-gr-jsp-pmc-1000-rounds (http://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-158-gr-jsp-pmc-1000-rounds)

I always have a box of premium HP’s for each of my guns in my ammo stash, but is there any reason you WOULDN’T trust your life to this round? On paper, the 750lbs at the muzzle looks vicious.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 03:00:20 PM: What gun are you shooting them out of? Do your own research, but mine pointed me to Cor Bon DPX. A lot of the shorter barreled revolvers don't get to affect enough rifling on the round before it leaves the gun to coax proper expansion within the (warm bodied) target. CorBon is supposed to shine here. Its expensive ($1.50 a round or so),but i'd go that route if its a short barreled weapon and just bulk up on cheap FMJs. :twocents:
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 08, 2015, 03:03:22 PM: I think they are fine for SD. Anything out of a .357 mag should be good for 2 legged critters.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 03:18:42 PM: Quote from: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 03:00:20 PM
What gun are you shooting them out of?

This would be for a SW 686+ with a 4” barrel. I know the 6” will get the most out of the round, but if I’m not mistaken, most .357 ammo is spec’d on a 4”
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: MtnMuley on January 08, 2015, 03:21:43 PM: With as many people as you've spun up, I'd stick with the HP's :chuckle:
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 08, 2015, 03:22:20 PM: Most of the time i carry fmj in my 45 acp.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 03:41:24 PM: Quote from: MtnMuley on January 08, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
With as many people as you've spun up, I'd stick with the HP's :chuckle:

All my bodyguards use HP's :chuckle:
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 08, 2015, 04:15:29 PM: Quote from: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: MtnMuley on January 08, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
With as many people as you've spun up, I'd stick with the HP's :chuckle:

All my bodyguards use HP's :chuckle:

I'd have thought the non-sequitur was your weapon of choice. JSPs rated at 1400 fps would do fine, but I'd worry about over penetration.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: CP on January 08, 2015, 04:31:10 PM: No, JSP are hunting rounds, there is much better ammo to be had for SD.

Crappy .357 Magnum loads you should not carry for self-defense.

Never carry soft-points, semi-wadcutters, or any of the 158 grain or 180 grain JHP loads; these are for hunting, practice or target use. Stick to jacketed hollowpoints under 150 grains in weight. The heavier bullets kick hard. Lead (un-jacketed) bullets are okay for practice, but you will have to spend twice as long cleaning your gun

source:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm)
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: fly-by on January 08, 2015, 05:14:44 PM: How many SD loads are you realistically going to shoot? If you have $600 to spend on ammo, buy 1 box of 3-4 different premium 125 gr SD rounds, find out which one shoots best, buy another box or two of those. That whole exercise should cost about $150.00. With the remaining $450 you can buy 1000 rounds of practice ammo at .35-.40 a round and have some change left over.

Or you could buy just buy Remington Golden Sabre 125gr for 43 cents.
http://usarmorment.com/ammunition-c-1/357-magnum-c-1_430/remington-golden-saber-357-magnum-125-gr-hpj-500-round-case-p-2515.html (http://usarmorment.com/ammunition-c-1/357-magnum-c-1_430/remington-golden-saber-357-magnum-125-gr-hpj-500-round-case-p-2515.html)

I'm pretty sure the claimed velocity is out of the carbine from the video. That would be a piping hot pistol load. Other places quote that same round at 1200 fps.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: coachcw on January 08, 2015, 05:29:12 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on January 08, 2015, 03:22:20 PM
Most of the time i carry fmj in my 45 acp.
fine for target shooting but a good hollow point all day for self defense. I shoot the hornady critical defence rounds in my 45acp 165 grain hp around 950 fps .
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: hillbilli on January 08, 2015, 06:09:45 PM: the 158 JSP loads for .357, might expand out of a carbine, out of a revolver the lead tip may expand as much as bore diameter- and it will act like a full wadcutter and penetrate like no tomorrow- which is why some people like this load for deer. I much prefer the 158 gold dot for deer, as it consistently expands to about .55, and penetrates too much for personnel use, unless you are in the middle of nowhere and don't care that it will exit. (for deer exits are a good thing) almost any hp .357 under 150gr is just fine for anti personnel use.. (an exception is the 158 hydrashok, that while heavy, is pretty frangible) when you are bored put ".357 gel test" into youtube.. and remember that anything with over 18" penetration in gel will typically get an exit on people, even at odd angles, large bones involved, etc.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 08, 2015, 06:17:43 PM: Quote from: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 03:00:20 PM
What gun are you shooting them out of?

This would be for a SW 686+ with a 4” barrel. I know the 6” will get the most out of the round, but if I’m not mistaken, most .357 ammo is spec’d on a 4”

Excellent gun. I've owned two. I wouldn't really worry about ammo if your shooting a perp at 5 feet. Crooks don't care what they use. www.gunbot.net (http://www.gunbot.net) is a better place for checking ammo prices.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 08:14:43 PM: Quote from: magnanimous_j on January 08, 2015, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 03:00:20 PM
What gun are you shooting them out of?

This would be for a SW 686+ with a 4” barrel. I know the 6” will get the most out of the round, but if I’m not mistaken, most .357 ammo is spec’d on a 4”

At 4" you've got a lot more options. I like revolvers in snub nose as they make great backup guns. Dangling nicely in a coat or front pant pocket they can ride without a holster (with a factor 12 pound trigger pull) and even shoot through the clothing it needed, unlike a bottom feeder. With a 2" barrel on the snubbie the performance won't be anywhere near a 686 though.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: ghosthunter on January 08, 2015, 08:35:11 PM: Does it really matter ?

The average bad guy gets in your house and you have no choice but to shoot.
.22 , 9mm, 40, 357. .? The bad guy is going to run or die.

More important you can hit with what you shoot. How much you practice is more important than bullet selection on SD.

If you are not a cop, why worry about it.

I was talking to a deputy the other day about firearm practice. I shoot at a range twice as much as the sheriff dept. Shoots :yike:
Pick and carry the gun you shoot and like best. Pick the cartridge that guns likes and you can hit with.
Than practice, and hope you never have to shoot. :tup: :twocents:
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 08:49:47 PM: Cops tend to only hit their target 20% of the time. You can either call it bad marksmanship or a reflection of carrying lots and lots of ammo... Or both :yike:
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: ghosthunter on January 08, 2015, 08:59:28 PM: Both I would think.

Same Deputy told me.....

The FBI did a study of under stress officer shootings.
80% of officers involved in high stress SD shootings said they never saw the gun sites during the event.

He suggested I train for that event.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Bean Counter on January 08, 2015, 09:03:05 PM: If he's referencing "Violent Encounters" it is a good read. It's where I got the 20% mentioned above.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: 2labs on January 08, 2015, 10:51:24 PM: Here you go little buddy. Self defense. Hydra-shok. Hope you never have too use them.
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: Bofire on January 09, 2015, 08:59:24 AM: :)In an OLD study, 25 years or so, the 125 grain HP in a 357 was the highest percentage of "one shot stops" of all the shootings studied. "one shot stop" meant the bad guy stopped trying to hurt someone, not death. I think Sanow and Ayoob were the authors.
Carl
Title: Re: Jacketed Soft Points for Self Defense
Post by: fish vacuum on January 10, 2015, 02:07:24 AM: The fact that cops, and people in general, miss their target so much in stressful situations is why I don't buy the argument of overpenetration. It's highly likely that shots will end up beyond their target anyway.
With that said, I still carry HPs for self defense.