Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 06:29:06 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2015, 06:44:11 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 12, 2015, 06:50:41 AM
Post by: rtspring on January 12, 2015, 06:56:59 AM
I truly believe most rifles will out shoot the shooter! You have to know your equipment and bullets.
But if your building another gun I wanna shoot it :chuckle:
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 08:01:00 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 12, 2015, 08:12:19 AM
The only thing wrong is my trigger is 4-5 lb... how did i ever make that shot with that trigger? :chuckle:
I agree with all you said tho. I shoot my lr rig weekly as from april through november and am proficient with it. And it is capable. 300 rum with 215 bergers at 2950
Post by: jasnt on January 12, 2015, 08:18:10 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 08:32:29 AM
Post by: jasnt on January 12, 2015, 08:51:04 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 12, 2015, 08:55:10 AM
I don't shoot long rang at big/wild game like you guys do, I've never had to as I a take most within pistol range. (I'm damn lucky! :chuckle:) But anyone running to Cabela's for that schnazzy new SS 'whatever' rifle chambered in 'whatever' magnum cartridge needs to realize that just because it says magnum on the barrel, just because there's a BDC retical matched to that one particular factory bullet that you can't find on the shelf, with that 5 pound trigger is likely not qualified nor did their $1,200 purchase a combination of rifle and optic worthy of taking the long shot. There are a lot of scopes with finger adjustable turrets that won't dial in 25moa. So even with a spot on range finder, a flat ridge to ridge shot at say 425yds is well beyond a reasonable ethical shot on most big game. What's spin drift...?
And how many people that buy that pretty new rifle with bore sighted scope installed by 'the technician' have actually ever shot, let alone practiced shooting from the prone position? :dunno: :chuckle: :dunno:
I say 400yds is a long shot for most, and I mean most people.
-Steve
Post by: jasnt on January 12, 2015, 09:13:13 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 12, 2015, 09:15:26 AM
Compute the actual kill zone size of the animal you are hunting, and start shooting paper at longer and longer distances. When you can’t put 9 of 10 shots into the target, shooting under real life conditions (wind, angles, obstacles, etc.) shooting from field positions like prone, then you’ve found your maximum range. Few will admit it, but for the vast majority of hunters it is this side of 400.
Post by: jasnt on January 12, 2015, 09:20:09 AM
Since everyone around here seems to hate the word “ethical”, grab a thesaurus and find another one - but set a standard for yourself. My standard is that at least 9 times out of 10, my first shot should be fatal.
Compute the actual kill zone size of the animal you are hunting, and start shooting paper at longer and longer distances. When you can’t put 9 of 10 shots into the target, shooting under real life conditions (wind, angles, obstacles, etc.) shooting from field positions like prone, then you’ve found your maximum range. Few will admit it, but for the vast majority of hunters it is this side of 400.
I prefer personal limit. Also I agree. If you can't hit it 9/10 or better it's past your personal limit
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
Post by: mountainman on January 12, 2015, 10:16:09 AM
That being said, I am still a bowhunter at heart. I enjoy the challenge of getting close and personal..long range hunting is just shooting. It has its place...
Post by: hub on January 12, 2015, 11:24:06 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 12, 2015, 11:40:53 AM
Long range: The point where you can no longer use the reticle in your scope and are forced to dial.
ELR: the point where you start the second revolution on your dial.
now for Hunting, Long range would be whatever the range is when you drop below 1500 foot pounds and are still above 1000 foot pounds of energy.
so basicly, you need to know your weapon.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 12, 2015, 11:48:25 AM
Pictured is the result from a real crappy practice day. Range is 500 yards, wind was 20 to 30 MPH fron 1:00 and 2:00. Made 11 of 15 on the plate this is shooting from a rock, not prone.
no way in hell I would take this shot on an animal.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 12, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
I'm sorry to get off on a tangent, but this is a subject that gets me fired up. Your OP was about 'Accuracy and Long range hunting', and I think we're (I maybe?) diverging to poor choices by people that think they are long range hunters when in fact, they likely don't have the proper equipment and/or skill to be have earned the title. Most hunters don't practice beyond 100yds, let alone 200.
I'm off my soap box now. What specifics are we all willing to discuss/learn about Accuracy and Long range hunting?
-Steve
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 02:33:23 PM
I know you where kidding..... my post was to really make guys think about the whole long range hunting aspects and whether or not they really have both the skill set and equipment to pull those shots of consistently . just like bow hunters that shoot 100 yards not much difference just the scale changes . I know guys that id bet money on them at 100 vrs others at forty.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 12, 2015, 02:44:06 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 03:03:54 PM
Come on now, RT can hit his block target darn near every time at 40yards :chuckle:
Post by: kentrek on January 12, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
it's seems like you'd really have to hunt for that good shot in the long range game an I don't think alot of people realize that
I can find beer cans at 1000 no problem tho :tup:
Post by: Bill W on January 12, 2015, 04:14:57 PM
1903 springfield outta do it ! vrs 32 win
Don't know if the 1903 Springfield is a 1K hunting rifle but it's a very accurate military rifle. I shoot a few of the '03s and 03-A3's.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 12, 2015, 04:28:01 PM
Post by: rtspring on January 12, 2015, 04:37:32 PM
Come on now, RT can hit his block target darn near every time at 40yards :chuckle:
Oh sure pick on my archery skills!!! You just wish you were a lefty :chuckle:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 12, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
I'm tellin ya, it just aint right :chuckle:Come on now, RT can hit his block target darn near every time at 40yards :chuckle:
Oh sure pick on my archery skills!!! You just wish you were a lefty :chuckle:
Post by: yorketransport on January 12, 2015, 08:33:35 PM
I just like to shoot at long range, but I hunt up close. The effort involved once you've made a hit at 1000 yards (at least everywhere I hunt) is 10 times the work of shooting an animal at under 100 yards. It has a lot to do with the terrain on the west side though. a 1000 yard shot usually means shooting across a valley of some kind. I'm just too lazy to climb down one side, up the other, then back with a bunch of extra weight!
Andrew
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 08:36:51 PM
I'm so lazy that I barely hunt, add long range hunting to that and I'm out. Long range hunting to me most of the time is anything more than 40 yards from my truck. :chuckle:
I just like to shoot at long range, but I hunt up close. The effort involved once you've made a hit at 1000 yards (at least everywhere I hunt) is 10 times the work of shooting an animal at under 100 yards. It has a lot to do with the terrain on the west side though. a 1000 yard shot usually means shooting across a valley of some kind. I'm just too lazy to climb down one side, up the other, then back with a bunch of extra weight!
Just sendblrman over
Andrew
Post by: actionshooter on January 12, 2015, 08:48:20 PM
I'm so lazy that I barely hunt, add long range hunting to that and I'm out. Long range hunting to me most of the time is anything more than 40 yards from my truck. :chuckle:Well said..... :chuckle:
I just like to shoot at long range, but I hunt up close. The effort involved once you've made a hit at 1000 yards (at least everywhere I hunt) is 10 times the work of shooting an animal at under 100 yards. It has a lot to do with the terrain on the west side though. a 1000 yard shot usually means shooting across a valley of some kind. I'm just too lazy to climb down one side, up the other, then back with a bunch of extra weight!
Andrew
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2015, 08:52:08 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 12, 2015, 08:54:42 PM
It's not hunting if you're shooting your game 1/2 mile away. :stirthepot:
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 08:56:10 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Is that like fishing with a down rigger ?
Ha! Exactly or walking instead of driving.
Post by: deadlift on January 14, 2015, 09:38:28 AM
Most of all have fun and if you want to start field shooting ask the match director to squad you w a few experienced shooter and you will learn more in 2 days than 3 years plinking.
Have fun!! Nothing better than pulling down on a target and whacking it hard at 1000 yds. :IBCOOL:
Chris
Benhcmark
Post by: follow maggie on January 14, 2015, 11:59:44 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 15, 2015, 06:12:47 AM
I'm getting into long range shooting this year. I'm setting up my 300 with a Timney trigger and muzzle brake. Going to start reloading so I can afford the ammo. For hunting, though, my limit is 200. Never shot anything past 100, thoughI hope you have a blast . remember never to give up accuracy to gain fps. if you need a load for a Winnie I have a good one to start with .
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 15, 2015, 01:21:32 PM
Most of all have fun and if you want to start field shooting ask the match director to squad you w a few experienced shooter and you will learn more in 2 days than 3 years plinking.:yeah:
Chris
Benhcmark
I'll second that! While I don't compete at long range shooting, I do 'when time allows' compete at one handed Bullseye/Standard pistol Rimfire (2pound trigger), CenterFire/45acp (3 1/2pound trigger), at 50yds for slow fire and 25yds for timed/rapid fire. For most people, this is long range shooting with a 'pistol'. When I started some 14 years ago, I learned more in two matches and then the state championships, from the veteran competitors than I ever would have on my own. Most of them will talk your ear off and you'll be challenged to take all of it in and make sense of it. Take notes! Now I share information.
I will say, other than the dope, other than your optic, other than your cartridge characteristics, Learning trigger control is the first step to good shooting.
-Steve
Post by: Rich_S on January 15, 2015, 02:42:58 PM
(The rest of the story)
One of the members of our hunting party made a gut shot and the deer took off running. All tolled, thirteen of us (men, wimmen and kids) searched the sagebrush all morning. We were all gathered on a hill, deciding what to do next, when the deer broke out of the brush on the flat below us, running for a posted "No Hunting or Trespassing" fence line.
My buddy sat down and missed two shots with his 7mm mag. He went empty. I stood next to him with three rounds in my Model 88 Win .284 Win. w/open sights. I fired a round which hit ten feet behind it. The next round was five feet back (I could clearly see the puffs in the dust). The third round scored and the deer went face first sliding. Stopped about a hundred feet short of the fence. Had no choice but to try it. Got lots of witnesses to my pure dumb luck combined with a generous portion of clean living! :chuckle:
Post by: coachcw on January 15, 2015, 07:41:05 PM
How about a heart shot at 375 yards on a Muley at a dead run from a standing position?eyes oped or closed , that's luck not precision. It could be your just that good though , there's not many of us. :chuckle:
(The rest of the story)
One of the members of our hunting party made a gut shot and the deer took off running. All tolled, thirteen of us (men, wimmen and kids) searched the sagebrush all morning. We were all gathered on a hill, deciding what to do next, when the deer broke out of the brush on the flat below us, running for a posted "No Hunting or Trespassing" fence line.
My buddy sat down and missed two shots with his 7mm mag. He went empty. I stood next to him with three rounds in my Model 88 Win .284 Win. w/open sights. I fired a round which hit ten feet behind it. The next round was five feet back (I could clearly see the puffs in the dust). The third round scored and the deer went face first sliding. Stopped about a hundred feet short of the fence. Had no choice but to try it. Got lots of witnesses to my pure dumb luck combined with a generous portion of clean living! :chuckle:
Post by: kbrowne14 on January 15, 2015, 09:26:54 PM
However, I really don't like the term "Long Range Hunter." I prefer the term Precision Hunter. I am going to approach each shot regardless of distance in the same precise manor, and I am going to feel just as confident at 1000 yards as I do at 100 yards. If I don't feel that confidence I won't take the shot, I have shot a deer at 700 yards, and an hour previous I passed on a deer at 250 because I didn't feel comfortable with the shot.
I think people get too hung up on the distance. Most people are not set up properly to take an animal passed 500 yards. It really does take more than a BDC reticle, a range finder, and a "tack driver" that shoots a sub moa 3 shot group 1 time with a box of core-lokts. I have a 30-06 that is very accurate, more accurate than I can shoot it, and my longest shot I will take with it is 400 yards because it isn't set up to shoot further. If you have trained to shoot at distances and you have the knowledge, ability, and equipment to take a precision shot at longer distances, you are just as ethical as anybody out there.
Post by: savagehunter on January 15, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 16, 2015, 06:14:32 AM
This last season I ran into a couple of precision hunters. They shot a nice buck at 800 yards over the top of me and my son. Spoke with them at length 45000 dollars worth of equipment they said second but in 3 days . Missed a five point at a thousand they said. Swarovski spotters geovid range finding binoculars angle compensation included. Custom rifles in awsome wildcat configurations. Awhile later. After they had left and me and my son and this old timer camped there were cleaning up all the trash they had left in the high country. Who carries red Bull five miles in? The old man tells me and my son that these two yahoo's who shoot thousands of rounds at a thousand yards. That took a thousand yard shot at a 5x5 mule deer. Thought they had scored a hit the old man sat with the spotter while the other guy went up canyon. He called back on the radio that he found blood. He even spent a whole hour looking for that buck. Now I may not have the fancy crap or the custom crap or the most expensive crap. But plenty of old timers took thos we shots with iron I saw my old man one shot one kill a deer at 600 yards with the 8 mm Mauser his grandpa took off a dead German in the black forest. I also spent 12 hours in the creek bottom in the pucker brush tracking a wounded deer he shot at less then a hundred. I'll be the judge of my ethics and just keep picking up trash of the guys who can spend 45000 dollars to kill deer thank you very much.Wow that a huge generalization pal. first of all it's not the 45 k worth of gear that makes the slob. it's the prick carrying it so please don't generalize, my bet is theres plenty more guys carrying box guns hucking beer cans out the window than guys with nice gear leaving trash, second the ethical distance to shoot is way more than the distance of the shot , good equipment , conditions , practice , condition of the hunter , and the movement of the game play a huge roll . there is times when even with the best equiptment that fourty yards could be too far. in my book 5-600 yards can be ethical with good equiptment and practice but is never ethical with a guy that shoots three shots before hunting season or shots a weapon that he doesn't know inside and out the ballistics of . no disrespect for you grandpa intended but shooting six hundred yards with a 8mm mauser and box ammo with what was most likely a old 4x weaver scope seem way more about greed vrs ethics . and i'm not kicking the old 8mm I still have my first one wich I killed my first deer with (at 75 yards). I'm sorry but I respect and love all hunting from archery to muzzy and long range rifle when the proper preparation is put into it. I love archery but have a lot of respect for the pression required to shoot long distance .
Post by: grundy53 on January 16, 2015, 06:22:12 AM
Post by: savagehunter on January 16, 2015, 07:24:51 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 16, 2015, 09:40:00 AM
My post was not about littering . It was not my grandfather shooting it was my dad. It was his grandfather's rifle. He was shooting with the German iron sights. Did you even read my post? Ethics meaning not having my son and me in their line of fire. I actually didn't mind them taking long shots. The point is the got a hit at 1000 yards and one guy spent one hour looking for that deer. The point is if you take that shot be prepared to do the right thing don't go back to glassing. Get your butt into the brush both of them should not have come off that mountain til they had made an ethical attempt to track that buck. We all have our opinions that's mine and I stand by it . The equipment doesn't make it ethical the man does.. You included the littering jab in your post. Both in the middle and at the end, so it was indeed part of your post. It also read as though guys with good gear are slob, unethical hunters. Not sure if that was how it was supposed to read or not but that is how it sounded to me. Just FYI
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 16, 2015, 10:04:30 AM
How about a heart shot at 375 yards on a Muley at a dead run from a standing position?
(The rest of the story)
One of the members of our hunting party made a gut shot and the deer took off running. All tolled, thirteen of us (men, wimmen and kids) searched the sagebrush all morning. We were all gathered on a hill, deciding what to do next, when the deer broke out of the brush on the flat below us, running for a posted "No Hunting or Trespassing" fence line.
My buddy sat down and missed two shots with his 7mm mag. He went empty. I stood next to him with three rounds in my Model 88 Win .284 Win. w/open sights. I fired a round which hit ten feet behind it. The next round was five feet back (I could clearly see the puffs in the dust). The third round scored and the deer went face first sliding. Stopped about a hundred feet short of the fence. Had no choice but to try it. Got lots of witnesses to my pure dumb luck combined with a generous portion of clean living! :chuckle:
As posted before.
"Even a blind nut finds a squirrel every now and then".
Post by: b23 on January 16, 2015, 10:10:01 AM
Post by: Rich_S on January 16, 2015, 11:09:47 AM
"Even a blind nut finds a squirrel every now and then".
Ya, dats vat I said. But also that I had no choice but to try it.
Post by: coachcw on January 16, 2015, 05:51:03 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on January 16, 2015, 11:52:45 PM
The fact that you generalized all hunters with nice equipment to be unethical and slobby shows a great deal of ignorance. I'd be willing to bet that you and I have see 10 times as many unethical and stupid things happen during hunting season where the hunters had regular old "cheap equipment." Taking a 600 yard shot at a deer with a 8mm mauser from WWII is flat out dumb and unethical, regardless of the outcome. But that is your opinion and you will "stand by it." Just know, that your opinion and your posts in this thread, are completely contradictory, and make you sound uneducated and ignorant.
Post by: savagehunter on January 17, 2015, 09:39:12 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 17, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
Post by: kentrek on January 17, 2015, 01:24:43 PM
This is putting shooting conditions aside..zero wind, middle Temps/other inputs
I'm fine with 800 foot pounds of energy but am not a fan of the long flight times so that limites me to that 750-800 mark before I get uncomfortable
Alot can happen in 1.5 seconds !
Post by: jasnt on January 17, 2015, 02:18:02 PM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on January 17, 2015, 02:51:50 PM
I'm not that good yet but my personal goals are to reach out till I go subsonic or just before. Currently I'm working at 730 yards with my fav 243. I'm shooting 64gr Berger BR column in this weather they are going 3775 at the muzzle(re17 is very temp sensitive!) these bullets are designed for 500 and less yard match. I'm thinking this is a little far for these tiny flat base bullets. I'm wondering if they are getting unstable cause in no wind it's still difficult keeping them on 10" plate, yet at 500 the 6" plate is simple. I think that it's not one thing that should make or break your personal limits, you really need to take all of those things mentioned( conditions aside) in to consideration.
I'm surprised you even do so well at 500. At 200 I would have .5 MOA or less with light for caliber bullets in a number of ripples but much past 300 they start to open up significantly. There is a reason "long range" bullets are typically heavy for caliber. I will give up velocity any day for consistency and accuracy. My go-to bullets in all my guns are heavy for caliber, never seen the need to get a ricer to 150 when I can get a semi to 130.
I shoot a 220 Swift a lot and see no reason to shoot 40s through it and gain a bit of speed and a flatter trajectory inside 200yds. The 40s shoot good but so do 55s and the 55s stay accurate much farther out there and inside 200 the difference is minuscule. I wish I had a faster twist to stabilize the 62s or slightly heavier bullets.
Longest shots to date were a coyote at 465yds with the 220 Swift and a 62gr Berger Varmint and a whitetail across a field this year at 533yds with a .30-378 Wby and a 210 Berger Hunting VLD. Not way out there but far enough for me on an animal.
Post by: yorketransport on January 17, 2015, 03:05:41 PM
Hitting an 8" target at 600 yards just isn't that hard. We take people out all the time and get them to make hits at long range after about 10 shots. That certainly doesn't make them candidates for the next big long range hunting video craze. But it does go to show that just hitting a deer sized target at long-ish range isn't that tough. Heck, I've seen an awful lot of deer that took 4 shots to the guts at less than 75 yards. I think I could make a pretty convincing argument that if poor hits on animals make for poor hunting ethics, there are a higher percentage of unethical short range hunters than long range hunters.
As far as special and expensive equipment for long range shooting, it's not necessary. I just dump some powder into a 7mm RUM case, cram a bullet on top until I hear the powder start to crunch, sight it in 11.6" high at 100 yards (that's a 675 yard zero by the way. ;)) and go yank the trigger. Sometimes I get lucky and hit stuff. We've done this with $300 rifles and $200 scopes and we've done this with $3000 rifles and $2000 scopes. We even got a Vortex scope to make a hit at 1000 yards. Once. :stirthepot:
Now excuse me, I need to go meticulously hand weigh powder charges into weight sorted cases, and seat my bullets which have been segregated by weight to the the 1/10 grain, sorted by bearing surface, and pointed, and then check them for bullet run out. If I'm lucky 5% will make the cut to be used the next time I shoot at 200 yards. :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: jasnt on January 17, 2015, 03:17:23 PM
I'm not that good yet but my personal goals are to reach out till I go subsonic or just before. Currently I'm working at 730 yards with my fav 243. I'm shooting 64gr Berger BR column in this weather they are going 3775 at the muzzle(re17 is very temp sensitive!) these bullets are designed for 500 and less yard match. I'm thinking this is a little far for these tiny flat base bullets. I'm wondering if they are getting unstable cause in no wind it's still difficult keeping them on 10" plate, yet at 500 the 6" plate is simple. I think that it's not one thing that should make or break your personal limits, you really need to take all of those things mentioned( conditions aside) in to consideration.
I'm surprised you even do so well at 500. At 200 I would have .5 MOA or less with light for caliber bullets in a number of ripples but much past 300 they start to open up significantly. There is a reason "long range" bullets are typically heavy for caliber. I will give up velocity any day for consistency and accuracy. My go-to bullets in all my guns are heavy for caliber, never seen the need to get a ricer to 150 when I can get a semi to 130.
I shoot a 220 Swift a lot and see no reason to shoot 40s through it and gain a bit of speed and a flatter trajectory inside 200yds. The 40s shoot good but so do 55s and the 55s stay accurate much farther out there and inside 200 the difference is minuscule. I wish I had a faster twist to stabilize the 62s or slightly heavier bullets.
Longest shots to date were a coyote at 465yds with the 220 Swift and a 62gr Berger Varmint and a whitetail across a field this year at 533yds with a .30-378 Wby and a 210 Berger Hunting VLD. Not way out there but far enough for me on an animal.
I don't shoot them for the speed tho it is nice at times. They where available in a 1000 ct. And cheap. I need a faster twist to shoot the heavies in the winter time. During warmer weather I can shoot 105's great! But they won't stabilize below 35-40. This is a new rifle with only 643 rounds down the tube so I'm still playing with it. Had it about 9 months now. Next barrel will be 8twist
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
... my post was to really make guys think about the whole long range hunting aspects and whether or not they really have both the skill set and equipment to pull those shots of consistently . just like bow hunters that shoot 100 yards not much difference just the scale changes . I know guys that id bet money on them at 100 vrs others at forty.
From what I have seen most 1MOA shooters tend to be 3 MOA shooters when the target has hair on it! Gets even worse if there are horns to go along with that hair :chuckle: So regardless of gun I tend to think of long range hunting as anything over 300 yards. I am not one to hold much weight in energy numbers when it comes to long range shooting. Energy only applies if the bullet you shoot has the ability to dump upon impact. You could have 5,000# of energy at 800 yards with a Barnes and it wouldn't make much difference if the velocity wasn't above 2,200.
I know there are some on here that can rely upon regular long distance kills. These guys fascinate me and pull at my jealousy strings. However, it makes me nervous talking long range hunting on a public forum. Most have no reason and lack enough experience and terminal ballistics knowledge to shoot more than 500 yards at an animal. Sure is fun to pound rock and steel at long range though.
Post by: b23 on January 17, 2015, 03:40:43 PM
I wish I had a faster twist to stabilize the 62s or slightly heavier bullets.
I don't know how fast a twist you need for a 62 but if you've got at least a 1-12tw maybe take a look at Hornady's 53 Vmax. It has a G1 BC of .290 and they shoot lights out in my 223 Ack Imp but you'll need at least a 1-12tw to stabilize them.
Post by: coachcw on January 17, 2015, 04:27:11 PM
Coach..although it doesn't appear that your really pushing those extreme ranges (1300 and beyond) I'm curious as to how you and other guys determine your max distance ? Do you live an die by remaining energy ? Time of flight ? Remaining velocity ?I have one issue with a vlds and 800 lbs of energy so distance isn't really the deciding factor for me. Rather what condition doing feel comfortable putting the shot inside of a coffer cup. That may be 100 or 800.in my mind conditions and math need to be spot on to send one 800 at a heartbeat. I guess I'm pretty lucky I only see game as a target and don't get buck fever (in less it's a bear at 20 feet ) one thing that really helps me is knowing that the equmpteenth I'm shooting is the most accurate I can afford . Knowing the system you have is 1/4 moa . Gives me the confidence that if I'm settled in the shot ,that the outcome will be favoritible. My shot on my sheep this year was 300 yards steep downhill Ina huge 45 MPh wind .under the circumstances it was long range . I shot my deer at 250 off a camera tripod standing up with my long range system at 20 power it was a chip shot . I literally was counting the hairs . I wouldn't ever judge someone by the sheer distance of a shot because every time it holds different degrees of complexity. I'm sure there is guys on here that make1000yard shoto look easy. So that's why I use the coffee cup method. I want that berger into the boiler room every time. Guys that shot that bullet through a shoulder either don't have the set up for there style of hunting or made a bad shot. Know your equipment and its intended use practice with it and have confidence in it .
This is putting shooting conditions aside..zero wind, middle Temps/other inputs
I'm fine with 800 foot pounds of energy but am not a fan of the long flight times so that limites me to that 750-800 mark before I get uncomfortable
Alot can happen in 1.5 seconds !
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 17, 2015, 04:53:30 PM
if you can speed up the bullet enough, you might be able to overcome the twist.I wish I had a faster twist to stabilize the 62s or slightly heavier bullets.
I don't know how fast a twist you need for a 62 but if you've got at least a 1-12tw maybe take a look at Hornady's 53 Vmax. It has a G1 BC of .290 and they shoot lights out in my 223 Ack Imp but you'll need at least a 1-12tw to stabilize them.
Post by: actionshooter on January 17, 2015, 07:52:07 PM
Coach..although it doesn't appear that your really pushing those extreme ranges (1300 and beyond) I'm curious as to how you and other guys determine your max distance ? Do you live an die by remaining energy ? Time of flight ? Remaining velocity ?I have one issue with a vlds and 800 lbs of energy so distance isn't really the deciding factor for me. Rather what condition doing feel comfortable putting the shot inside of a coffer cup. That may be 100 or 800.in my mind conditions and math need to be spot on to send one 800 at a heartbeat. I guess I'm pretty lucky I only see game as a target and don't get buck fever (in less it's a bear at 20 feet ) one thing that really helps me is knowing that the equmpteenth I'm shooting is the most accurate I can afford . Knowing the system you have is 1/4 moa . Gives me the confidence that if I'm settled in the shot ,that the outcome will be favoritible. My shot on my sheep this year was 300 yards steep downhill Ina huge 45 MPh wind .under the circumstances it was long range . I shot my deer at 250 off a camera tripod standing up with my long range system at 20 power it was a chip shot . I literally was counting the hairs . I wouldn't ever judge someone by the sheer distance of a shot because every time it holds different degrees of complexity. I'm sure there is guys on here that make1000yard shoto look easy. So that's why I use the coffee cup method. I want that berger into the boiler room every time. Guys that shot that bullet through a shoulder either don't have the set up for there style of hunting or made a bad shot. Know your equipment and its intended use practice with it and have confidence in it .
This is putting shooting conditions aside..zero wind, middle Temps/other inputs
I'm fine with 800 foot pounds of energy but am not a fan of the long flight times so that limites me to that 750-800 mark before I get uncomfortable
Alot can happen in 1.5 seconds !
Well said coach
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 19, 2015, 08:53:58 AM
I'm not that good yet but my personal goals are to reach out till I go subsonic or just before. Currently I'm working at 730 yards with my fav 243. I'm shooting 64gr Berger BR column in this weather they are going 3775 at the muzzle(re17 is very temp sensitive!) these bullets are designed for 500 and less yard match. I'm thinking this is a little far for these tiny flat base bullets. I'm wondering if they are getting unstable cause in no wind it's still difficult keeping them on 10" plate, yet at 500 the 6" plate is simple. I think that it's not one thing that should make or break your personal limits, you really need to take all of those things mentioned( conditions aside) in to consideration.
Have you tried some 105's??? I have been working up a load for my 243WSSM. At the moment, it is at 2990FPS, 200 yard zero,4 mills elevation at 700 yards and 7.8 mils elevation at 1000 yards yesterday,
Post by: jasnt on January 19, 2015, 09:56:35 AM
Post by: mountainman on January 19, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 19, 2015, 10:55:52 PM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on January 20, 2015, 12:06:29 AM
if you can speed up the bullet enough, you might be able to overcome the twist.I wish I had a faster twist to stabilize the 62s or slightly heavier bullets.
I don't know how fast a twist you need for a 62 but if you've got at least a 1-12tw maybe take a look at Hornady's 53 Vmax. It has a G1 BC of .290 and they shoot lights out in my 223 Ack Imp but you'll need at least a 1-12tw to stabilize them.
I'd have to gain a bit more speed than safe, I had a few loads tightening up but had too many pressure signs to consider them safe. My rifle is just twisted too slow for bullest above 55gr. My best load does a consistent .5moa out to 400 but this has been a picky rifle. It is getting close to needing set back but I am considering a new, faster twist barrel instead. In 220 AI😄
Post by: jasnt on January 31, 2015, 06:51:37 PM
What wind meters are you guys using
Post by: yorketransport on January 31, 2015, 07:57:41 PM
What wind meters are you guys using
The grass in front of the target usually. Then the guy I shoot with pulls out some fancy looking Kestrel thingy....... :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: jasnt on January 31, 2015, 08:11:25 PM
Post by: yorketransport on January 31, 2015, 08:22:07 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 31, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
The one I'm looking at is the kestrel 2500. Is it worth going to the 3500?i have the kestrel 2500 and think its great. I use it more for pressure and temp than wind. But also for wind.
Post by: jasnt on January 31, 2015, 10:45:52 PM
does it give absolute pressure or do you have to convert it?The one I'm looking at is the kestrel 2500. Is it worth going to the 3500?i have the kestrel 2500 and think its great. I use it more for pressure and temp than wind. But also for wind.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on January 31, 2015, 11:10:41 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 01, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
absolute pressure. set me calculator elevation to 0 and enter the pressure on my kestrel and good to godoes it give absolute pressure or do you have to convert it?The one I'm looking at is the kestrel 2500. Is it worth going to the 3500?i have the kestrel 2500 and think its great. I use it more for pressure and temp than wind. But also for wind.
Post by: jasnt on February 01, 2015, 09:19:38 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 01, 2015, 10:03:42 AM
I ment to say station pressure but I think we're on the same page:yeah: where i usually shoot at mica the elevation is roughly 2500 and the kestrel usually reads near 27.4
Post by: jasnt on February 01, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
Post by: deadlift on February 02, 2015, 11:42:56 AM
Chris
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