Post by: higunner on January 31, 2015, 09:12:03 AM
Post by: gotcha on January 31, 2015, 04:53:27 PM
Post by: Big6bull on January 31, 2015, 08:41:35 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on January 31, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on February 01, 2015, 12:25:53 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 01, 2015, 07:20:20 AM
Haven't heard about a split but do know Margaret will be a general hunt this year for all weapons.
That's a shame. Not that I wouldn't like to hunt it again. Probably not under those conditions.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 01, 2015, 08:00:31 AM
Haven't heard about a split but do know Margaret will be a general hunt this year for all weapons.
That's a shame. Not that I wouldn't like to hunt it again. Probably not under those conditions.
I agree, expect a zoo, but it will give some of those displaced by fee access a place to go though... will be a good first couple seasons with the bull/cow ratio it has, but in a couple years will be just like any other unit. :'(
Post by: SI Eagle on February 01, 2015, 08:33:04 AM
Post by: gotcha on February 01, 2015, 11:53:37 AM
Post by: grundy53 on February 01, 2015, 11:58:31 AM
Post by: kentrek on February 02, 2015, 03:36:20 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 07, 2015, 03:30:33 PM
Backcountry will never be general. They would never do that to the monument. The westside. That is another story.:dunno:The proposal says otherwise......sad :bdid:
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2015, 04:04:24 PM
Post by: Firedogg on February 07, 2015, 07:15:14 PM
Post by: 280ackley on February 07, 2015, 07:56:18 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on February 07, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
Opening the western part to general season would play nicely into the hands of the private landowners east of Weyco, for sure.
Oh you mean that giant chunk that a certain rich individual bought about 3 years ago?
*yawn* Big surprise... WDFW for bid.
Post by: moocher97 on February 09, 2015, 09:35:39 PM
Post by: higunner on February 09, 2015, 09:36:54 PM
Post by: 2MANY on February 10, 2015, 07:51:49 AM
Now all those applicants will be putting in for other units.
The point creep continues.
Post by: skidynastar33 on February 10, 2015, 10:51:25 AM
Post by: jackmaster on February 10, 2015, 11:01:38 AM
Post by: gotcha on February 10, 2015, 01:15:51 PM
Post by: grundy53 on February 10, 2015, 03:10:37 PM
Post by: jackmaster on February 10, 2015, 03:56:22 PM
Hopefully it will take some pressure off of other units.oh it will do that alright, it might be worth just to go sit around up there and watch the carnage...lol.. probably mostly hunters blastin the sheet outta each other :chuckle:
Post by: Bullkllr on February 10, 2015, 05:44:05 PM
They did change the boundary of the Margaret unit....
:yeah:
And they created a new elk area in the east end.
Elk Area No. 5066 Norway Pass (Lewis and Skamania counties):
That part
of GMU 522 beginning at the US Forest Service
(USFS)
Trail 211 (Lakes
Trail) and USFS Trail 230 (Coldwater Trail) junction; N to Minnie
Peak; W to the USFS property boundary in the SE 1/4 of Section 20,
T10N, R5E; N along the USFS property boundary to the Green River; E up
the Green River to the USFS Rd 2612; E on the USFS Rd 2612 to USFS Rd
26; S on USFS Rd 26 to USFS Trail 1 (Boundary Trail); W on USFS Trail
1 to USFS Trail 214 (Whittier Trail); N on USFS Trail 214 to USFS
Trail 211 (Lakes Trail); W on USFS Trail 211 to the USFS Trail 211,
Trail 230 junction and point of beginning.
Only proposed permits are in the new elk area. All other parts of 524 are listed as general season areas.
So, yeah- it's a real deal.
Post by: Bullkllr on February 10, 2015, 05:58:52 PM
Sooo, what other unit has a boundary change to include the land east of the USFS line?
Loowit
Post by: skidynastar33 on February 10, 2015, 06:37:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 07:18:30 PM
Post by: Bob33 on February 10, 2015, 07:22:45 PM
So how much is Weyerhaeuser going to charge? $400,500,800?:yike:
That's quite a jump. I don't think they'll sell very many at four hundred million a pop. ;)
Post by: kentrek on February 10, 2015, 07:26:27 PM
Well, last year the St Helens access permit was $150, and they were offering 15,000 but only sold 4,000. So I would think that the price would stay the same or possibly go down. It will be very interesting to see how many more they sell this year, due to Margaret being open for early archery, early muzzleloader, and modern firearm seasons. Not only that, but Coweeman and Winston will be open for early muzzleloader, and they never have been before. So that will be another reason people will be buying the Weyerhaeuser access pass.
pretty convenient for Weyerhaeuser
Post by: HntnFsh on February 10, 2015, 07:34:32 PM
So how much is Weyerhaeuser going to charge? $400,500,800?:yike:
That's quite a jump. I don't think they'll sell very many at four hundred million a pop. ;)
The four hundred million probably isn't a deal breaker. But that dang $500,800 is just over the top. A mans gotta draw the line somewhere! :chuckle:
Post by: Bullkllr on February 10, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
Well, last year the St Helens access permit was $150, and they were offering 15,000 but only sold 4,000. So I would think that the price would stay the same or possibly go down. It will be very interesting to see how many more they sell this year, due to Margaret being open for early archery, early muzzleloader, and modern firearm seasons. Not only that, but Coweeman and Winston will be open for early muzzleloader, and they never have been before. So that will be another reason people will be buying the Weyerhaeuser access pass.
pretty convenient for Weyerhaeuser
A little too convenient if you ask me.
While I see some good things from having the unit go general, I can't say the timing of this doesn't bother me. Sounds like a great way for Weyerhaueser to sell more permits. Why were Coweeman and Winston not open for general early muzzle-loader when the populations were high? My guess is they would have sold plenty of permits last year if the elk numbers were near 10 year ago levels.
Sounds like a great way for landowners near the monument to charge more for their access. Many people saw this coming when the sales were made. Just took awhile to convince the WDFW?...I'd love to know how that went down.
This seriously puts a crimp on options for western tag holders to put in for.
I don't like it. At all.
Post by: elk247 on February 10, 2015, 07:52:07 PM
So how much is Weyerhaeuser going to charge? $400,500,800??! Or is mr Agnew that owns the other land? Or at helens noble tree farm? Wonder who got money put there pockets to get this through. How is this going to help the average hunter?Kentrek and they guys that hunt this unit; does this fall in line with the lodge that was being built to cater towards out of state elk hunters, or is that in the quality part? Now they can buy OTC tags? It helps the average elk hunter by being able to buy an otc tag if you have a way or means to access the unit. If you dont then it wont help you much, but then why would you choose this unit anyway? This might have to do with the hoof rot or political influence. Time will tell. Private tree farm access permits are here to stay. Its just a sad reality. Its also a sad reality that this amazing elk unit is getting sicker every year.
Post by: Bullkllr on February 10, 2015, 08:01:28 PM
So how much is Weyerhaeuser going to charge? $400,500,800??! Or is mr Agnew that owns the other land? Or at helens noble tree farm? Wonder who got money put there pockets to get this through. How is this going to help the average hunter?Kentrek and they guys that hunt this unit; does this fall in line with the lodge that was being built to cater towards out of state elk hunters, or is that in the quality part? Now they can buy OTC tags? It helps the average elk hunter by being able to buy an otc tag if you have a way or means to access the unit. If you dont then it wont help you much, but then why would you choose this unit anyway? This might have to do with the hoof rot or political influence. Time will tell. Private tree farm access permits are here to stay. Its just a sad reality. Its also a sad reality that this amazing elk unit is getting sicker every year.
Everything west of the monument is proposed as OTC. Yes, that includes the private land you mentioned above (aka "where the healthy elk in the unit live").
Post by: skidynastar33 on February 10, 2015, 08:05:14 PM
I bet margeret gets its own area from weyerhouser. The whole thing smells fishy
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 08:07:13 PM
$500,$800,$1000 haha
I bet margeret gets its own area from weyerhouser. The whole thing smells fishy
It could. They might make it a lease area instead of a permit. (or multiple lease areas)
Post by: Big6bull on February 10, 2015, 09:25:25 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on February 11, 2015, 05:53:15 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on February 11, 2015, 06:35:30 AM
Oh, that's right...there's all that state land so no Weyco permit is absolutely required and no deep pockets private landowners wanting to sell high-priced access on the best part.
Post by: skidynastar33 on February 11, 2015, 07:31:13 AM
Why not do the same with Toutle?
Oh, that's right...there's all that state land so no Weyco permit is absolutely required and no deep pockets private landowners wanting to sell high-priced access on the best part.
Yep but they could split the unit if they got enough motivation $$$$$$$$$
Post by: SI Eagle on February 11, 2015, 08:05:24 AM
Post by: fireweed on February 11, 2015, 08:42:59 AM
$500,$800,$1000 hahaEXACTLY--Margaret gets divided off for I bet $400 to $500, but Weyco has already sold the best parts of that unit (Agnew/Noble farms and Erickson).
I bet margeret gets its own area from weyerhouser. The whole thing smells fishy
The USFS is still trying to purchase the part in Skamania county (High Lakes) but has not been able to get rated highly enough on the grant process. They are not giving up yet, but the process is long and needs support.
Post by: fireweed on February 11, 2015, 08:52:16 AM
Why not do the same with Toutle?
Oh, that's right...there's all that state land so no Weyco permit is absolutely required and no deep pockets private landowners wanting to sell high-priced access on the best part.
Yep but they could split the unit if they got enough motivation $$$$$$$$$
The public has absolutely no legal access to that DNR land by vehicle. There is nothing stopping Weyco from charging hunters to go through their land to that landlocked DNR land. As they continue to ratchet up the restrictions, the permits become more "accepted", and the WDFW, state legislature doesn't fight back, paying just to get to public land will be next. Weyco will say that they can't afford to have unknown vehicles on their haul road, that it is a safely issue, liability issue, garbage dumping, metal thieves, people stealing ferns and moss, rock collectors, you name the justification...and we will all be paying Weyco to go to state land.
MARK MY WORDS! If the state doesn't get serious about securing access its the next logical step for Weyerhaeuser to make a buck.
Post by: Torrent50 on February 11, 2015, 12:35:12 PM
Why not do the same with Toutle?
Oh, that's right...there's all that state land so no Weyco permit is absolutely required and no deep pockets private landowners wanting to sell high-priced access on the best part.
Yep but they could split the unit if they got enough motivation $$$$$$$$$
The public has absolutely no legal access to that DNR land by vehicle. There is nothing stopping Weyco from charging hunters to go through their land to that landlocked DNR land. As they continue to ratchet up the restrictions, the permits become more "accepted", and the WDFW, state legislature doesn't fight back, paying just to get to public land will be next. Weyco will say that they can't afford to have unknown vehicles on their haul road, that it is a safely issue, liability issue, garbage dumping, metal thieves, people stealing ferns and moss, rock collectors, you name the justification...and we will all be paying Weyco to go to state land.
MARK MY WORDS! If the state doesn't get serious about securing access its the next logical step for Weyerhaeuser to make a buck.
There are currently other areas of State land that would have access blocked by Weyco permit areas, but they put their gates to their permit areas further up the road and left access to the State land completely open. I realize that the general consensus is that Weyco is an evil empire, but just thought I would mention they didn't block access to public land when they could have in some areas at least.
Post by: fireweed on February 11, 2015, 07:15:07 PM
The WDFW proposal actually takes land from the Margaret and adds land to the Loowit Unit which is CLOSED TO HUNTING (except for ths elk tag). And they call this a "new elk opportunity"?
What they are proposing closes deer, bear, cougar, coyote, grouse etc. on Public land that has been open to hunting for years.
Better to change nothing with the elk tags if they are closing hunting on vast areas of USFS land.
Post by: BABackcountryBwhntr on February 12, 2015, 03:50:58 PM
After hunting the Margeret last year with the bow and hearing reports from this year I don't think ill ever apply for it again. the hoof rot is getting TOO bad. they should have made it general a few years ago to get rid of the hoof rot elk spreading it around. The numbers of elk from this year and even comparing it to 5 years ago are crazy!!! the area has potential which its shown but it needs to start over.
weird, my buddy had the tag, killed a 250 class bull and saw 19 other bulls in a week? sounds like it was still pretty good to me?
Post by: trophyhunt on February 12, 2015, 03:59:24 PM
Are you talking about the 4,000 acres with elk lake?$500,$800,$1000 hahaEXACTLY--Margaret gets divided off for I bet $400 to $500, but Weyco has already sold the best parts of that unit (Agnew/Noble farms and Erickson).
I bet margeret gets its own area from weyerhouser. The whole thing smells fishy
The USFS is still trying to purchase the part in Skamania county (High Lakes) but has not been able to get rated highly enough on the grant process. They are not giving up yet, but the process is long and needs support.
Post by: Bullkllr on February 12, 2015, 04:01:28 PM
After hunting the Margeret last year with the bow and hearing reports from this year I don't think ill ever apply for it again. the hoof rot is getting TOO bad. they should have made it general a few years ago to get rid of the hoof rot elk spreading it around. The numbers of elk from this year and even comparing it to 5 years ago are crazy!!! the area has potential which its shown but it needs to start over.
weird, my buddy had the tag, killed a 250 class bull and saw 19 other bulls in a week? sounds like it was still pretty good to me?
Glad your buddy got a good bull. Results the last few years have been pretty mixed. Lots of tags unfilled, others doing quite well.
Not too long ago, seeing 19 bulls in a week in the Margaret would have been dismal.
Saw 19 bulls per herd maybe...or 19 bulls answered your call at the same time...or almost ran over 19 bulls with the truck...or saw 19 bulls poke their heads in the tent door, or 19 bulls actually tried to mate with a Montana decoy maybe...that's more like the way it was.
Post by: HntnFsh on February 12, 2015, 06:02:07 PM
After hunting the Margeret last year with the bow and hearing reports from this year I don't think ill ever apply for it again. the hoof rot is getting TOO bad. they should have made it general a few years ago to get rid of the hoof rot elk spreading it around. The numbers of elk from this year and even comparing it to 5 years ago are crazy!!! the area has potential which its shown but it needs to start over.
weird, my buddy had the tag, killed a 250 class bull and saw 19 other bulls in a week? sounds like it was still pretty good to me?
Glad your buddy got a good bull. Results the last few years have been pretty mixed. Lots of tags unfilled, others doing quite well.
Not too long ago, seeing 19 bulls in a week in the Margaret would have been dismal.
Saw 19 bulls per herd maybe...or 19 bulls answered your call at the same time...or almost ran over 19 bulls with the truck...or saw 19 bulls poke their heads in the tent door, or 19 bulls actually tried to mate with a Montana decoy maybe...that's more like the way it was.
Thats a heck of a funny way of putting it. :chuckle: But man it was insane about 7 or 8 years ago when my son and I had our muzzy tags. Seeing 30 branch bulls a day was pretty common. If half a dozen decent bulls went into a hell hole you just shrugged your shoulder and went and found some others! No big deal!
Post by: Bullkllr on February 12, 2015, 06:09:29 PM
Post by: fireweed on February 12, 2015, 06:19:01 PM
Are you talking about the 4,000 acres with elk lake?$500,$800,$1000 hahaEXACTLY--Margaret gets divided off for I bet $400 to $500, but Weyco has already sold the best parts of that unit (Agnew/Noble farms and Erickson).
I bet margeret gets its own area from weyerhouser. The whole thing smells fishy
The USFS is still trying to purchase the part in Skamania county (High Lakes) but has not been able to get rated highly enough on the grant process. They are not giving up yet, but the process is long and needs support.
Yes, but I think what the USFS is going for isn't quite that large. Elk Forest Hanaford (Fawn is just on the Cowlitz Co. Side so it isn't included) The Gifford Pinchot boundary is the Cowlitz/Skamania line so technically these properties are "inholdings" withing the nat. Forest that is how the USFS can justify acquisition, and old trails to the Mt. Margaret used to go there.
Post by: Alan K on February 12, 2015, 06:49:39 PM
The thought when they moved Margaret to the Bull category was to drum up application dollars since there aren't very many good options there, so however much he's paying them off with must cover years of lost applications fees. :dunno:
I don't buy that Weyerhaeuser would be doing much behind the scenes on this, even if they were to bump sales of their Longview permit by 1k to a total of roughly
Who knows though. Big money has a lot of power behind the scenes. . .
EDIT: Just reading back I saw someone mentioned that 4k permits had sold. Last I had checked it was 2500 but I didn't really check once late summer came around.
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2015, 07:15:39 PM
The total number must have been somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand.
Here's a newspaper article I just found:
http://tdn.com/lifestyles/modern-rifle-deer-season-seeing-fewer-hunters-in-weyerhaeuser-s/article_fc9afc86-5018-11e4-b08e-bf91c524f8d8.html (http://tdn.com/lifestyles/modern-rifle-deer-season-seeing-fewer-hunters-in-weyerhaeuser-s/article_fc9afc86-5018-11e4-b08e-bf91c524f8d8.html)
Post by: BABackcountryBwhntr on February 14, 2015, 08:49:32 AM
Post by: higunner on February 28, 2015, 06:54:09 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on February 28, 2015, 07:55:28 AM
What GMU will all of the private property around the lakes be considered?
It's in the general season 524 part. Finally got what they wanted.