Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: joe_dumy on February 07, 2015, 01:53:21 PM
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I am looking at taking my dog to Penny Jo and looking for outside references. She gave me several references and of coarse everyone had good things to say about her. I am just doing my homework as I don't want to send my dog out to just anyone. And I to be honest I know nothing about trainers and bird dogs. I have been hunting for years without one and finally found enough time to be able to have a hunting dog. I put a lot of effort into finding the perfect dog for me and my family and I think I owe to my dog to put just as much effort in finding the right trainer. I have a Red Setter form the Berg Bros kennel. And Ben berg did a great job starting her. I had a great first season with her and want someone to work on finishing her. I have been researching and asking around for a couple of months and to be honest there is not a lot of info about any of the trainers. I want her to be broke to shot and fall, hunt dead and force retrieve. Currently she is at broke to shot and doesn't retrieve or hunt dead. Pam is a great family dog and well behaved in the house, she is a little timid with commands so I think a hard nosed trainer might break her spirit. Ben Berg was gentle and patient with her and I was happy with his work, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another dog from him. She hunts hard and has plenty of drive. I think she pushes the birds to much but that I think is lack of birds, I have been told she will figure it out with more birds. But that proper training will help that along.
Anyways hoping to hear some personal experiences with her training methods and how your dogs came out. Also let me know if there were any unexpected charges that caught you of guard.
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I should have added that I asked for her permission. And she was fine with my asking about her training online. I told her there may be some negative post. She got worried for a second. But then said "if I got unhappy clients, then I should know about it". She scored another point in my book for that. Anyways if you have had any experience with her training please let me know about it. If you are uncomfortable about posting it, PM me.
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Never heard of her. Does she participate in performance events as a professional?
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She does the occasional NAVHDA dog, She is in the Spokane area. I have met with her a few times and trained with her once over on her property working Springers together. A very nice woman, her and her ex developed the first remote bird releaser it was the one that used a rubber band with a heating element that would burn it in two. Wildweeds would remember the name. With all the trainers mentioned on this site I am surprised the OP would go to Spokane when he is in Olympia.
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I can't remember the name of the releaser but I do remember seeing one, it was a Wag somthing or other I believe.
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As far as traveling to Spokane that is a price I am willing to pay. After to going to the Berg Bros in Minnesota, Spokane is not that far away for the right trainer. I have checked out several trainers local. And maybe I haven't checked them all out. So if you want to give a shout out for your favorite trainer please do. After all I just want to find the best trainer. One thing I have found is a growing trend for bird fees and other unknown cost. Having a dog train to shot and fall seems to require a lot of birds. Something that a few trainers have tried to guide me away from. But I have two little ones in with me most of the time and having a dog that wont move appeals to me. So broke to shot and fall is what I want. I also want a trainer that supports that. Penny Jo supports that and believes in it. I am asking some very pointed questions. Like hidden cost, shot to fall and how much actual time is spent actually training my dog. I get all kinds of results and Penny Jo seems to have all the right answers. I also have a red setter and a very loyal and sensitive one at that. She can be shut down by loud voices, excessive whistling and shocking. I dont want to screw this dog up. I have waited so long for the time in life where I can afford the time to spend enough time to at least working her once a week. I have hunted since I was 18 and now 42 without a dog. Always wanted one but could never look a good bird dog in the face as I went to work every weekend to support my family. So I finally got a dog that is good not great and want to invest in a trainer that will help her reach her full potential. I have waited so long to get a good dog and want to make the most of it. I was warned to be careful and patient on picking a reputable breeder and I spent a year and a half finding the right breeder and dog for me and my family. While she has great lines from Bearcat Setters she did not posses the qualities Berg bros was looking for. So they decided not to breed and instead to train her as a started dog. I called and called and Pam waited 6 months before I officially claimed her. Ben finished her training for me and I had a great first season. But now I am looking for the perfect trainer to help finish her. It is not a light decision that I have narrowed might sights on Penny Jo's training. She is obviously not well know. But been around for many years and performs gundog training mostly out of passion. I have talked to many of trainers and got everything from the used car salesman approach to the well she not one of my dogs so only so much can be expected approach. Penny Jo seemed to be the one of the only ones that had no interest other than making a honest living doing what she loved. Maybe that is the best sales approach and I wouldn't be asking for unsolicited advise or experience If I had more gundog experience. So I am begging for the good and the bad experiences of Penny's training. I know there are lurkers sitting on their experience with her and I cant wait to hear what they have to say. Again I am only doing my homework to ensure that I find the right trainer for Pam, our beloved red setter that only wants to please and loves finding birds.
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Trusting your trainer is the first step. Second, set goals and milestones for the dog with the trainer which are mutually agreeable. If goals and milestones are not being reached you pick up the dog and find a new trainer. Don't make exceptions and keep spending money. Check in on the progress and if you don't get updates, pick up the dog and don't pay. You should have the expectation of progress as much as the trainer expects cash money. Progress is also communication from the trainer. If they won't answer the phone, don't pay them money. You don't pay lots of $$ to leave messages. Twice a week is a reasonable amount of expected communication when your paying nearly $250 a week.
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I would also ask as I have learned this is very very important is can you spend time training with her and the dog to learn yourself. It does not do much good if the trainer spends 2-4 months training your dog, BUT you have no idea how to handle YOUR dog...
Very important.....
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I would also ask as I have learned this is very very important is can you spend time training with her and the dog to learn yourself. It does not do much good if the trainer spends 2-4 months training your dog, BUT you have no idea how to handle YOUR dog...
Very important.....
this is very true. One every other week at minimum which also lets you gauge progress and adjust goals as needed. You should be able to get some generalizations. For force fetch, If I was a professional trainer, I would require a minimum two months of training and I would expect FF to take me about 4-6weeks as a general goal. It could take longer however, some serious discussions about the dog(or the trainer :chuckle:) need to be had at that point.
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Training me will be part of the deal. I plan one day training me to handle correctly and one watching me handling and critiquing me. Also for support if I run into issues or just have questions.
I hope someone speaks up about their experience with Penny Jo. I really look forward to hearing about someone else's esperience with her. My gut says one thing and my mind another. So any help would be appreciated.
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Joe
All I will say is that she is a friend, but she is also a competitor to me so I will not say anything good nor bad.
My advice to you would be go and watch as many trainers as you can, ask as many questions as you can. Stay away from any trainer that does not want you to come out and watch them train. Pay attention to the dogs, are they working out of fear or are they working for the love of the hunt? Will these dogs work without a collar? Only you can decide what is best for you and your dog. You talked about what a good job the Berg Bros. did send your dog back to them...
Good luck on your quest...
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Sending her back to Ben would be my first choice if money were nor an issue. But the travel alone makes that an object I can't get through. Her being a friend of yours first says allot. I understand she is a competator. So I understand why you don't promote her.
I am open to suggestions and self promotion. Just PM me. I am looking for the best trainer I can afford. The dog training world is pretty hard to get good info on. Mostly not people persons and not allot of info online.
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If you haven't really seen dogs get trained, the first time you see someone getting a dog to do something it's pretty amazing. If you've only trained with one person, that one persons' dogs are probably the best you've ever seen and you'll think that one trainer is the best trainer ever. Visiting more than one trainer as Richard(Bluemoon) mentioned is the best thing you can do for you and your dog. I've also said many times, go visit multiple trainers, see who has the dogs on training grounds, who might keep your dog in a residential neighborhood on a truck or, in their garage in a makeshift kennels versus someone who is invested in their craft, has clean, safe kennels with proper waste systems in place and a daily routine for your pup. Who also has a business which is open to drop in and visit once and a while unexpectedly. It's unlikely anyone who doesn't own some amount of training ground is going to train your dog as regularly as someone who puts dogs on the ground right where they live.
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Well I wanted to tell my experience after choosing to go with Penny Jo for my dogs training. I wanted to share my experience with her so someone else considering her as a trainer could find some info about her. Not much on the web about any trainers. I pretty much went with my gut after getting lots of advice on how to select a trainer.
First of all she is really passionate about bird dogs. Loves to talk about them and share her knowledge about them and what she knows. Believe it or not this is extremely rare as most trainers just say bring me the dog and we will take a look at it and that is the end of the conversation. Penny Jo asked all kinds of questions and was happy to answer any of my newbee questions I had since this is my first bird dog.
When I called her references they took up 90 minutes of my time saying such great things about Penny Jo. That was only three phone calls she gave me ten references. So i decided Penny jo was going to be the one for my soft red setter.
My challenge to Penny Jo was to get her steady to wing, shot and fall. Force Fetch and hunt dead. My dog Pam took the steady to shot and fall, hunt dead lessons very well but she was supper stubborn on the force fetch which is one of Penny Jo specialties. Penny has earned a reputation for dealing with problem dogs and is firm with her training without using to much pressure. My dog is soft and Penny Jo found the right amount of pressure to get her to listen without shutting her down.
I came away from 3 months of training with a very steady dog and fetch sometimes dog. Pam knows what she is supposed to do and will do it when forced when she doesnt want to. So I just have to keep at the force fetching a little longer and I think Pam will bring me a tire if I ask with in a month. But most important I feel as if I came away from the experience happy, educated and with a new friend Penny Jo. I think most people have a similar experience with Penny Jo.
Penny Jo hospitably she shares with her guest is very special and makes you feel very comfortable. I felt as if I could ask her anything about dogs and not be made to feel stupid.
Penny Jo also walked me through Pam training via phone calls and texts with pictures.
Penny Jo kennel is clean, professional and organized. Her training equipment is up to date and taken care of.
I would highly recommend Penny Jo to anyone and happy to answer questions you might have about her training.
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You can do what you want, but training the dog yourself is definitely the best route. You can take the dog and have it trained but if you don't continually work it the dog will lose a lot of what it learned. Just what I have observed anyways.
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I know Penny jo personally. She's an awesome dog trainer and super person to work with! I think you'll be happy with P.J.
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Happy to hear of your experience. Wishing you and Pam a fun filled season.
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I can't remember the name of the releaser but I do remember seeing one, it was a Wag somthing or other I believe.
I just saw this. Are we talking about Penny Jo Wagner here? I met her many years ago at a NSTRA trial some where. Was a very nice lady but I did miss seeing her dog's run. The launcher your talking about was called Wag Ag. I had a set many years ago but had trouble with mine. Releasing them required burning a rubber band stretched across a wire. The wire on mine always got contorted and quit burning the rubber band; great when they were new. I'd met her not long before she left her husband, he owned Wagner Ag at that time. And they were out of Spokane back then. Does she have a web site?
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Don
I don't think she has a trainIng wesite. She does have one for a sports bra she designed and sells. I am pretty sure she does not sell the wag ag anymore but still uses hers for training.
Rc3
I simply don't have time to train a dog. Working 60 to 80 hours a week and two little kids doesn't leave much time for dog training. I would have screwed her up anyhow being such a soft dog. I love learning in though and if I get a other one I might try. But this being my first birddog I know I went the right route for Pam and i. Penny Jo is happy to answer any of my stupid questions. And I got a lot of them.
Forks
So far it's been a fun season. Got three pointed grouse and one quail in the bag. Missed twice that many so I got some work to do on my shooting as well. Finding Pam on point has to be some of the most exciting moments of my hunting life. Just love it. Can't wait to get out every chance I get.
