Post by: Elknut1 on February 15, 2015, 08:42:21 AM
The reason for this Thread is to share some features of our New App! It's not just elk sounds, it's a selective sound one at a time then an explanation of what the elk are conveying to you as a caller or to other elk they are communicating with, this is important as in many cases we hear elk in the distant but cannot see them. Having the ability to understand an Elk's language will give you the upper hand in breaking that language barrier! (grin) You will find that specific bugles send a specific message to the elk! Bulls will convey their thoughts or messages to other elk by their changes of intensity & cadence just as people do. Once you establish these changes in your memory banks it's easily brought up in your mind as the sounds are heard in the elkwoods. Identifying these specific messages in the field will now prepare you as to what to do next! In the past you may have fumbled around searching for the right sound or just any sound in hopes that it will work. This App will help take the guess work out of it for the most part putting the odds in your favor towards a close encounter!
This example of these bugling bulls is a great one to start with. Most of us have heard these bugles countless times but did you know what they meant? These are very commonly used in late Aug - Sept - Oct. by bulls as cows become their main interest. This sound is one bulls will use when they've heard cows nearby. They are giving these cows a direction to head as the bulls try their best to call them their way! Many have heard this bugle if they've cow called & received a response from a bull during their hunts. It's also a fairly easy bugle to imitate!
ElkNut1
Post by: Fullabull on February 15, 2015, 02:16:03 PM
I think that App will be very good Paul.
Fullabull
Post by: trophyhunt on February 15, 2015, 02:24:31 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on February 15, 2015, 05:51:27 PM
Post by: Elknut1 on February 16, 2015, 07:29:55 AM
Note the intensity of those bulls bugles, you can tell these bulls are peaking hard, their bugles show lots of intensity/urgency as their excitement flows freely for the cow they know is nearby. These same bulls can show interest in cows in early Sept with bugles no where near the intensity shown in the clip. Their intensity level would be half or less what's heard here yet they are still calling to a cow! Once in the elkwoods enough these times & sounds are easily identified. The same goes with the other various bugles bulls use to convey a message!
ElkNut1
Post by: Todd_ID on February 16, 2015, 08:05:29 AM
Post by: Elknut1 on February 16, 2015, 09:00:41 AM
ElkNut1
Post by: Okanagan on February 16, 2015, 09:53:49 AM
As a lifetime hobby I've called more than 30 kinds of critters to me, and learned a few patterns that carry over across several species. A major factor, that you are learning and exploiting, is what different vocals made by the same species are saying. Too often folks assume that by using a vocal they can call an animal from that species, but almost all species make a number of sounds that mean different things. Use the wrong vocal and the critter may run away instead of coming to you. That's not because you made the sound wrong but because of what it is saying!
Another factor that has interested me with elk is the wide variety of "voices" of different elk making the same sound, like tenors and basses among humans. Bulls bugling that I have heard, some of them at the same time, have ranged from the high clean picolo, to steer bellows, deep donkey braying and to one ancient bull I killed that made a wheezing sound like a 90 year old man with emphasyma. When hunting an area for sveral days, you can identify specific bulls by their individual voice. My grandson and I have heard the same bull for the past two years, distinguished by his bugle that sounds more like a roar than a classic bugle. My grandson named him Katy Perry two years ago after her song, ROAR. Last Fall I was sitting on a dawn ridge listening with him when a bull roared from deep in the canyon below us and he said, "That's Katy Perry!"
Hope my nattering does not distract from your thread.
Post by: trophyhunt on February 16, 2015, 09:59:23 AM
Fascinating stuff you are on to. Good work! I don't hunt elk much anymore but want to see your stuff just to learn.Interesting not nattering, but I am a Katy Perry fan!!
As a lifetime hobby I've called more than 30 kinds of critters to me, and learned a few patterns that carry over across several species. A major factor, that you are learning and exploiting, is what different vocals made by the same species are saying. Too often folks assume that by using a vocal they can call an animal from that species, but almost all species make a number of sounds that mean different things. Use the wrong vocal and the critter may run away instead of coming to you. That's not because you made the sound wrong but because of what it is saying!
Another factor that has interested me with elk is the wide variety of "voices" of different elk making the same sound, like tenors and basses among humans. Bulls bugling that I have heard, some of them at the same time, have ranged from the high clean picolo, to steer bellows, deep donkey braying and to one ancient bull I killed that made a wheezing sound like a 90 year old man with emphasyma. When hunting an area for sveral days, you can identify specific bulls by their individual voice. My grandson and I have heard the same bull for the past two years, distinguished by his bugle that sounds more like a roar than a classic bugle. My grandson named him Katy Perry two years ago after her song, ROAR. Last Fall I was sitting on a dawn ridge listening with him when a bull roared from deep in the canyon below us and he said, "That's Katy Perry!"
Hope my nattering does not distract from your thread.
Post by: Elknut1 on February 16, 2015, 07:12:40 PM
ElkNut1
Post by: AKBowman on February 16, 2015, 10:06:14 PM
When I do hear a bull its typically a quick squeal or soft grunt and that's it.
Not much to interpret
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on February 17, 2015, 08:10:31 AM
Post by: Elknut1 on February 17, 2015, 06:06:39 PM
During the times of pre-rut the bulls are fairly quiet for the most part of course there are those exceptions where I've seen all out rut fests Sept 1st! They are few & far between! Generally though bulls are tough to come by as a rule & are pretty quiet outside the occasional 1 bugle at daylight! (grin) Of course knowing in many cases that's all you may get we try to do everything possible to take advantage of that single bull bugle & actually have a pretty fair success rate at calling him in! Get to 150 yards or so & go with a light breeding sequence or all bull sounds & raking with an Advertising sequence & you'd be surprised how effective it can be! Most bulls show up silently without a peep. Picking the right sequence depends on the sound we've heard.
In the photos below the two smaller bulls bugled once in an hour & a half span & the bigger bull bugled twice in a two hour span but we were fortunate enough to still put them in the freezer with a selective sequence! We've taken some-where's around another 30 bulls when they were quiet even one I recall only gave a single grunt, he was asking who or what we were, 5 minutes later he was ours! Understanding the various sounds at times can be very beneficial to our hunts, we don't need non stop bugling to take bulls but it's a lot of fun when it does happen! (grin) So many times during ones 7 day hunts the elk are just flat quiet, how do you still hunt them at that time & fill a tag every year? This is one of the toughest challenges of elk hunting for runner & gunner type hunters. Just as there are tactics for vocal bulls there are equally as many tactics for quiet bulls.
We are going to share in detail podcasts on this App of every hunt we can think of from quiet bulls pulled in to bugling herd bulls & the strategies it took to bring them into bowrange! The details is where it's at not just I called & in he came! Nope, hunters need to know everything from locating the bull & how it was done & everything in-between to putting him on the ground. We will also share the sounds used right when the calling took place. These should be entertaining & fun to listen to while driving to work or working out. Heck we'll even share our mistakes so you won't fail in some of the areas we did! (grin) We'll have some of the podcasts available next week, I'll grab one & put it on the site & you can see what to expect on future ones. Heck, it's the off season we can all use a kick start to get us thinking elk, maybe something like this may help, heck I don't know! :dunno:Should be fun though!
ElkNut1
Post by: AKBowman on February 18, 2015, 09:45:51 PM
Some of the areas we would hike way back in around 9 miles only to find that someone is now hunting it off horseback!
This year we are pretty much bailing on the timber company area and hunting some deep nasty state land.
Pressure most definitely is a factor. Last year I had a 6 point bull with a small heard of about 3 cows and 2 calves in a bowl below me. I was maybe 150 yards away with the wind in my favor and gave two or three cow calls and a calf chirp while watching the bull in my binds to see his reaction. The lead cow looked around and when she didn't see the elk that was calling at her she freaked out and led the herd plum out of there country!
This situation told me a couple of things.
1. Just because we had ridden our man bikes back a good ways does not mean that these elk weren't pressured. They were pressured hard.
2. I needed to be extremely selective on the type and frequency of calling.
3. I was not skilled enough to call elk in this area into bow range with any consistency. I can make good elk sounds but my elk language needs drastic improvement.
Thanks again for the help. Time and effort will make it sweet when it happens.
Post by: SNIPER10 on February 19, 2015, 08:29:22 PM
Joel Turner
2x RMEF WORLD ELK CALLING CHAMPION/ PRO DIVISION
IRONMIND ARCHERY SYSTEMS
Post by: AKBowman on February 20, 2015, 03:24:29 PM
I'm sure it's dependent upon available cover.
Post by: SNIPER10 on February 20, 2015, 04:22:59 PM
Post by: Elknut1 on February 20, 2015, 07:03:44 PM
AKBowman, to your question, it's situational. If there is a hot cow & the bull is where he wants to be such as his bedding area he can defend to no end! This is where closer is better but 150yds is not out of the question if the hunter cannot get closer because of lack of cover. At that distance you have to put the pedal to the metal & convince him you have one of his cows! If you can get close to the group as Joel mentions that is money at this magical time!
We've run at the cows before to run them off, once right where the cows were we use that Bugle tone trying to call them back, this can have the herd bull explode in a rage of fury & come in on a string! Of course turning to that course of action means the herd bull cannot see or smell you! Yes, there are variables & hurdles to over come at times but with quick thinking & action you can get it done!
p.s. when calling to elk in the open as you mentioned above it's pretty much a losing battle! Try to shrink back from calling to elk that you can visually see. You see them & they can see where the source of sounds are coming from & not see elk! They will bugger! Wait till these elk slip into cover then get closer & then call if need be to redirect them with specific sounds!
ElkNut1
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 27, 2015, 06:21:26 PM