Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Turkey Hunting => Topic started by: Limhangerslayer on February 26, 2015, 06:26:52 PM

Title: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: Limhangerslayer on February 26, 2015, 06:26:52 PM: I know we had a thread on this last year but statistics show it's true. While all units seemed to drop at least a little. The Ne and Se have plummeted in the last two years. Just what the game department wanted,not to have to worry about farmer conflict. Pretty sad we used to have a heck of a state to hunt turkeys in. It shows what the fall general season is doing to them. The southeast went from 866 to 533 in two years.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: Tom Tamer on February 26, 2015, 06:33:48 PM: Yet the Farmers still have issues. WDFW manages them like they do the wolf and everything else for that matter. Very poorly.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: kevinlisa06 on February 26, 2015, 09:29:05 PM: I personally have only hunted the fall season 2 years and didn't much care for it. I agree with the majority that the liberal seasons have definitely hurt the turkey population in this state.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: MerriamMagician on February 26, 2015, 09:54:07 PM: Personally I can't stand the fall season and would be all for abolishing it completely. Too many hens killed. Lots of others may disagree, but thats what I think of it. :twocents:
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: idahohuntr on February 26, 2015, 10:06:46 PM: I don't see any shortage of turkeys...we hunt hens in the fall...usually hunt one particular farm and stack them up like cord wood. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: MerriamMagician on February 26, 2015, 10:20:05 PM: Agreed theres no shortage, but the numbers could certainly be a lot better. Like the numbers we had from 2000-2008. Huge populations of birds everywhere back then. I think one of the problems with this issue is you have guys like me who want tons of birds for a optimum spring hunting experience, and then you have the guys who hunt the fall and are less concerned with gobblers but will shoot lots of hens. You have to remember, turkeys are polygamous: Shooting a gobbler or jake out of the flock really only reduces the flock by one bird and another male bird will step in and breed all the hens. No big deal there with big populations. But when you shoot a hen, not only are you killing her, but you are basically eliminating her from producing anywhere from an average of 4-12 chicks in the spring. So killing a hen is almost like killing a dozen birds, theoretically speaking. Thats why are flocks are slowly dwindling, too many hens getting killed. Members take note, if you're one of the people who are concerned with this issue, stop killing hens and encourage everyone else to do the same.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: sneakyjake on February 26, 2015, 10:22:06 PM: How do states like PA have a fall season and no considerable Imact on the birds? They also only have a harvest of one bird in the spring. I still haven't seen a return of numbers since the two great snows. I don't believe many people are feeding them like they used too. All these factors must be weighed when determining seasons. Considering the drive for the majority of us, I would reduce fall harvest to maintain a two bird limit. That's just me though. They do like selling tags though. How about everyone just buy one spring tag at a time.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: PA BEN on February 27, 2015, 05:45:24 AM: Hunting isn't the problem with population, its predators and poaching. Also, how many birds is enough? From someone who lives with these birds I don’t want to see the large flocks that we had back in the day, 2 to 3 hundred birds in a flock. My Dad was a wheat farmer and the turkeys will take every head of wheat off 20 to 40 ft in along the edges of his fields. We have a very good hunt able population of birds now. BTW, your #’s are estimated. Your 533 # for 2013 is above average for the last 16 years. Also, I’m not seeing the large numbers of hunters out there these days either, those low amount of hunters will lower the Harvest #’s, with the price of gas and tags a lot of guys just don’t hunt turkeys anymore.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: PA BEN on February 27, 2015, 05:47:01 AM: Fall seasons may change, so it is important to check with WDFW
after the April meeting of the Fish and Wildlife Commission each
year to see what the fall turkey season regulations will be during any
particular year. Fall season information will also be made available in
the Big Game Hunting Seasons and Regulations Pamphlet.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: jasnt on February 27, 2015, 06:15:20 AM: Quote from: MerriamMagician on February 26, 2015, 10:20:05 PM
Agreed theres no shortage, but the numbers could certainly be a lot better. Like the numbers we had from 2000-2008. Huge populations of birds everywhere back then. I think one of the problems with this issue is you have guys like me who want tons of birds for a optimum spring hunting experience, and then you have the guys who hunt the fall and are less concerned with gobblers but will shoot lots of hens. You have to remember, turkeys are polygamous: Shooting a gobbler or jake out of the flock really only reduces the flock by one bird and another male bird will step in and breed all the hens. No big deal there with big populations. But when you shoot a hen, not only are you killing her, but you are basically eliminating her from producing anywhere from an average of 4-12 chicks in the spring. So killing a hen is almost like killing a dozen birds, theoretically speaking. Thats why are flocks are slowly dwindling, too many hens getting killed. Members take note, if you're one of the people who are concerned with this issue, stop killing hens and encourage everyone else to do the same.
completely agree.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: baldopepper on February 27, 2015, 06:40:07 AM: One of my problems with the fall hunt is it seems to be set automatically before there is any assessment on the winter effect on the birds. When we had 2-3 bad winters in a row we continued to have the fall hunt when it was obvious the bird numbers were down. I'm not sure what would have happened if the bad winters had continued. I agree with PaBen that the huge wintering flocks we had some years ago were not a good thing. Some farmers in our area were overwhelmed with birds eating feed and literally leaving piles of crap all over their feed lots and barns. The population seems in good shape this year, but we've had an extremely easy winter. I think turkey management is an afterthought now with wdfw ,pretty low on their priority list. Personally I don't like the fall hen hunt, more of a harvest than a hunt in the latter part when the birds are flocked up and road hunters blast them out of their cars. (At least that's what I see in our area) Birds have now spread pretty much across the state with huntable populations in areas where there were no birds 10-12 years ago, so maybe management has not been completely bad. I think any serious hunter who puts in the time and effort will have no problem getting a bird and I'm not sure what more you can ask for.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: Gobble Doc on February 27, 2015, 01:08:32 PM: Sometimes whole flocks must get eliminated. I used to hunt a farm that had a perfect habitat. Open hillside with trees with a creek running through the middle. Lots of birds. The birds were getting into the farmer's oat hay so he told me he called WDFW (at least this is what I was told) and they had someone take something like +30 birds. I used to be able to see the old nests and every year a youth hunter plus others were able to harvest a bird from this place. Now it is just barren. I haven't seen any birds now for several years on this piece of property.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: Limhangerslayer on February 27, 2015, 03:34:14 PM: That's why i wish they would trap and transfer flocks like that. But i doubt they will ever spend money on that anymore.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: PA BEN on February 28, 2015, 04:38:51 AM: Quote from: Gobble Doc on February 27, 2015, 01:08:32 PM
Sometimes whole flocks must get eliminated. I used to hunt a farm that had a perfect habitat. Open hillside with trees with a creek running through the middle. Lots of birds. The birds were getting into the farmer's oat hay so he told me he called WDFW (at least this is what I was told) and they had someone take something like +30 birds. I used to be able to see the old nests and every year a youth hunter plus others were able to harvest a bird from this place. Now it is just barren. I haven't seen any birds now for several years on this piece of property.
When hunting pressure is high in one spot the birds will move on.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: turkeydancer on March 04, 2015, 08:32:52 AM: Quote from: Limhangerslayer on February 27, 2015, 03:34:14 PM
That's why i wish they would trap and transfer flocks like that. But i doubt they will ever spend money on that anymore.

WDFW didn't fund trap and transfer ... it was the State NWTF Chapter and it took years to pay off that debt .... sorry WDFW, no credit for you.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: quadrafire on March 04, 2015, 08:40:37 AM: Well many of them may have moved to town :) Our urban population has grown leaps and bounds here in Spokane
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: Wacenturion on March 04, 2015, 08:57:30 PM: Quote from: turkeydancer on March 04, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Limhangerslayer on February 27, 2015, 03:34:14 PM
That's why i wish they would trap and transfer flocks like that. But i doubt they will ever spend money on that anymore.

WDFW didn't fund trap and transfer ... it was the State NWTF Chapter and it took years to pay off that debt .... sorry WDFW, no credit for you.

Sorry Dancer, but that's inaccurate. NWTF volunteers assisted WDFW's Upland Wildlife Restoration staff at some of the trap sites, primarily in the NE. NWTF did not however fund trap and transfer, with the exception of some of the later birds...i.e. Merriam's, Rio's and the most expensive part, Easterns. However we were getting birds pretty much for free or for an occasional wildlife trade before NWTF saw dollar sign and injected themselves as a middle man. That moronic move eventually lead to the demise of bringing birds in, paticularily Easterns.

To be fair NWTF did fund some trap and transfer equipement, such as nets, but relatively minor. They, the parent orginization did provide transport boxes....or should I say Weyerhauser provide them for free and NWTF put their logos and name on them and passed them on nationwide. WDFW's program was equipped to the hilt with nets, rockets, and transport trailers well before NWTF involvement, both volunteer and financially. Even well before the chapter system that eventually evolved. Volunteers were indeed present at alot of releases statewide as it was a priority to involve everyone...landowners, the public, etc.

The debt you refer to was the middle man charges NWTF imposed on all of us in the name of their smoke and mirror conservation. Sorry Dancer....but NWTF didn't fund trap and transfer in state, and only for the later years with out of state bird purchases. Trust me , I know.
Title: Re: Turkey management/lack of
Post by: turkeydancer on March 05, 2015, 10:18:38 AM: Thanks for the correction WACENT ... Yes, I indeed appreciate your efforts and the reasons you know what you know ... I was thinking of the later bird purchases imposed by the national (tied our hands for years, but was still probably worth the cost anyway).

WDFW management's current direction and NWTF national not wanting to rock that boat is a main reason that has led to the decline to only 3 NWTF chapters state wide now (vice 26 when I was involved). Don't see that turning around until the traps and transfers is revived. Also the liberal harvests (so they don't get any landowner complaints) isn't helping the situation either ....
:yike: