Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: hrd2fnd on March 15, 2015, 04:56:01 PM

Title: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: hrd2fnd on March 15, 2015, 04:56:01 PM: Having to sell my rifle and shotgun last year. I've been giving the thought of just getting a combination shotgun with rifled barrel to replace them.

I don't see me ever needing to reach out to touch deer any further than 100 yards anymore due to physical limitations and hunting alone. I'm hoping having the ability of both I will be able to hunt areas closer to home giving my spousal unit warm fuzzies now that I loss my friend and hunting partner.

Anyone doing the same and what should I be on the lookout for?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: ndcasla on March 15, 2015, 05:57:33 PM: I haven't gone this route, but it makes since if you hunt on the wet side, or have limitations as you state.
Remington, Mossburg & Browning make rifled barrels for their shotguns and there some after market models too.
The interweb is a good source of information about equipment and tactics.
If your looking for an over-under combo gun Remington, Savage & Blaser make them in several combinations of
calibers & gages. They are usually on the pricy side though.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: bobcat on March 15, 2015, 06:10:03 PM: What do you intend to hunt other than deer? For deer hunting with a shotgun I would go with a 20 gauge. But if you want to hunt waterfowl or turkeys you'll want a 12 gauge.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: Bmcox86 on March 15, 2015, 06:20:37 PM: I've shot tons of deer on the east coast growing up with shotguns due to a county restriction. A 28inch barrel pump with a smooth bore and brenanke rifled slugs is all you need. Most of my shots were well under 100 yards but my fartherst was 125. I've never had a deer with a slug run more than 25 yards and never out of sight. Hit it in the right spot or it will tear up some meat. On does I always did head shots.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: hrd2fnd on March 15, 2015, 06:36:38 PM: Mostly deer, the unexpected grouse and 2 legged vermin. Having only used a shotgun for grouse before this will be something new. Guess you could say I just want the opportunity to get out in the woods and hopefully put meat in the freezer for me.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: zike on March 15, 2015, 06:49:19 PM: I saw a combination gun at the show yesterday. It was a 12 ga over an a 6.5 x55 under, it was $650 and I thought about it. It would have made a good coyote gun too. My buddy in NY used an 870 with a rifled choke, he claimed it was accurate. I know I killed deer with it when I went back there to hunt. It'll save the cost of another barrel.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: wadu1 on March 15, 2015, 06:50:57 PM: You might want to look at a Rossi model S20-243RBS 20Ga / 243Win, the price is right. :twocents:
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: lokidog on March 15, 2015, 07:05:04 PM: Quote from: bobcat on March 15, 2015, 06:10:03 PM
What do you intend to hunt other than deer? For deer hunting with a shotgun I would go with a 20 gauge. But if you want to hunt waterfowl or turkeys you'll want a 12 gauge.

Elk minimum gauge is 12.

We have a mossberg that came with a smooth and rifled barrel, it is a nice combo. If you go a route like this, get a rifled barrel with a cantilevered scope mount rather than iron sights. Toss a 4x scope on it and it will be golden.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 15, 2015, 07:46:53 PM: I shot a 30-30 / 20 gauge Savag a lot, everytime I could afford it as a kid. There are still a lot of those old guns out there and they shoot well. Wouldn't recommend a scope on it though, that is superfluous and detrimental for this type of rifle. IMO scopes are way too over used today, no one has the skill to use iron sights and it is a pity. It takes more skill to be competent with open sights and if someone can use open sights competently then they will be able to use a scope win equal proficiency. I have always considered the ability to use iron sights is comparable to using a manual transmission; automatic trans are common, easy to use, and give people a false sense of compenatncy, but if you can use a manual competently then you are much more expert and ahead of people that can't.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: lokidog on March 15, 2015, 07:58:18 PM: Of course it takes more work to use open sights, however, many of us are getting older and our eyes don't work as well any more. :sry: I suggested a scope.... Not really though, I'd rather have a 4x scope with a crosshair than a dovetail iron sight with a bead that covers half or more of a deer at a hundred yards!

He also wants something to bird hunt with that might include ducks, I would personally never duck hunt with a single shot, again maybe just me. :twocents:
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 15, 2015, 08:28:05 PM: I feel for the guys that have lost sight to the point to where they can no longer shoot irons ( I know it is not really lost sight but depth perception and focus before I am corrected). But I disagree with you, Loki, the sight should not cover the target, the top of the bead should be your aiming point not the center of the bead. I have heard people say the sight covers the target for years and never understood how they would use the center of the bead as the aiming point, it makes no sense. That is where some scopes get me, I am shooting a 1" aiming point at 200yds but my scope crosshairs cover the point of aim. With opens, granted I still have good sight, I can still pick a smaller aiming point than I can with most scopes at distance.

Wouldn't shoot duck with a single shot but grouse, quail, chuckar, or pheasant I would not like to try shooting while looking around a useless scope.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: bobcat on March 15, 2015, 08:31:12 PM: He said all he wants to shoot is deer, grouse, and people.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: coachcw on March 15, 2015, 08:40:04 PM: Moss burg 500 truly rigs . I have slayed many of deer with one
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: lokidog on March 15, 2015, 08:50:28 PM: Quote from: j_h_nimrod on March 15, 2015, 08:28:05 PM
I feel for the guys that have lost sight to the point to where they can no longer shoot irons ( I know it is not really lost sight but depth perception and focus before I am corrected). But I disagree with you, Loki, the sight should not cover the target, the top of the bead should be your aiming point not the center of the bead. I have heard people say the sight covers the target for years and never understood how they would use the center of the bead as the aiming point, it makes no sense. That is where some scopes get me, I am shooting a 1" aiming point at 200yds but my scope crosshairs cover the point of aim. With opens, granted I still have good sight, I can still pick a smaller aiming point than I can with most scopes at distance.

Wouldn't shoot duck with a single shot but grouse, quail, chuckar, or pheasant I would not like to try shooting while looking around a useless scope.

Combo shotguns come with two barrels, one smooth and one rifled, no shooting around a scope. :dunno:

Quote from: bobcat on March 15, 2015, 08:31:12 PM
He said all he wants to shoot is deer, grouse, and people.

OK, I'd still suggest something like the Mossberg smooth/rifled combo, if deer only, forever, then I would go with a 20g, if there is potential for elk, then need to go 12g. Especially for people, I would not want a single shot....

A smoothbore 20 does shoot rifled slugs decently and put an action mounted scope on it for that will easily give you a hundred yard gun for a cheaper alternative to the combo..
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 15, 2015, 09:05:00 PM: Yes, some do but I was thinking more of a combo gun. A rifled barrel over a shotgun barrel is what I was pointing toward. Or! One of the nice drillings I have handled and not been able to afford.

If you are talking about a switch barrel then by all means throw a nice little Leupold FX-1 4x on it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: salmonchaser on March 15, 2015, 09:06:43 PM: Hmmm, when I think of combination guns I think of drilling. A double 12 over a 243 or 7x57.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: hrd2fnd on March 15, 2015, 09:48:20 PM: Having owned a Mossberg 835 for a couple of years and wishing I had bought the rifled barrel at the same time is what got me thinking of 1 gun instead of 2.

I bought the 835 in October 2012 after my partner I talked about doing our first turkey hunt the next year which didn't happen. Not knowing what it would take, having never used a shotgun for anything but grouse and it was a single shot 410.

When asked what I wanted to hunt I wasn't aware until it was mentioned a 12 gauge can be used for elk. Elk hunting would be a bonus for me after reading some of the stories here, listening to fishseekers elk camp stories and having never experienced elk hunting. I would think elk hunting by myself would be harder than deer from what I've read.

I like the idea of the scope for deer hunting, grouse not so much so. Bonus in home defense that the spousal unit already knows how to use.

Wadu mentioned the Rossi in 243. As I expected to budget up to 650 including scope from what I've been reading. :dunno: now.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: AWS on March 15, 2015, 10:23:14 PM: I use combination guns a lot, but to get a decent one they can be spendy. Savage 24 work alright if you can get away with open sights, put a scope on them and they get very awkward. It really sounds like a pump shotgun with a spare rifled barrel would be what you are looking for. A Rem 870 with a spare slug barrel and cantilever mount would work great as you can leave the scope or red dot on the barrel and put the shotgun barrel on for grouse and ducks.

Drilling 16ga x 16ga x 6.5x58R Sauer that I use for coyote hunting. I bought it as a non functioning wreck and spent a year repairing it and finding ammo.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2Fcoyote%2520with%2520driling_zpsay4xpbfm.jpg&hash=0a9a18a06db31e1e506cce4b2d809afd4d4f6d9b) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/coyote%20with%20driling_zpsay4xpbfm.jpg.html)

O/U Combination in 12ga x 5.6x50R Mag

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FAzandNM2013014_zpsf8eab297.jpg&hash=4d071436ffa05c5382f847f05e40796d329f5858) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/AzandNM2013014_zpsf8eab297.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: lokidog on March 16, 2015, 09:27:32 AM: Mossberg 500 12g combo w/ cantilevered barrel $416 +sh+ffl

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/mossberg-combo-shotgun-54243-gauge-rifled-ported-chmbr-dual-comb-wood-accu-choke-scope-p-84706.html (http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/mossberg-combo-shotgun-54243-gauge-rifled-ported-chmbr-dual-comb-wood-accu-choke-scope-p-84706.html)

Mossberg 835 12g combo camo synthetic $480

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/79849/Mossberg+835C+12+3.5%22+24UF24ISB+MOI (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/79849/Mossberg+835C+12+3.5%22+24UF24ISB+MOI)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: Bofire on March 16, 2015, 04:26:30 PM: :) the only combo guns I have fired much are the Savages. overunder with rifle and shot gun, misc. cartridges. To this date I have never fired one that the rifle, when sighted in, was in the center area of the shotgun pattern. :dunno:
I am sure some of the 5-20,000.00$ guns do well!! :chuckle:
I agree with the two barrel shotgun idea.
Carl
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 17, 2015, 12:26:07 AM: Quote from: AWS on March 15, 2015, 10:23:14 PM
I use combination guns a lot, but to get a decent one they can be spendy. Savage 24 work alright if you can get away with open sights, put a scope on them and they get very awkward. It really sounds like a pump shotgun with a spare rifled barrel would be what you are looking for. A Rem 870 with a spare slug barrel and cantilever mount would work great as you can leave the scope or red dot on the barrel and put the shotgun barrel on for grouse and ducks.

Drilling 16ga x 16ga x 6.5x58R Sauer that I use for coyote hunting. I bought it as a non functioning wreck and spent a year repairing it and finding ammo.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2Fcoyote%2520with%2520driling_zpsay4xpbfm.jpg&hash=0a9a18a06db31e1e506cce4b2d809afd4d4f6d9b) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/coyote%20with%20driling_zpsay4xpbfm.jpg.html)

O/U Combination in 12ga x 5.6x50R Mag

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FAzandNM2013014_zpsf8eab297.jpg&hash=4d071436ffa05c5382f847f05e40796d329f5858) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/AzandNM2013014_zpsf8eab297.jpg.html)

AWS, that is great to see those rifles used in this manner! Love seeing a classic gun in use today.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: AWS on March 17, 2015, 12:52:31 AM: Carl, all of the combos and drillings I use for coyote hunting cost less than a 1/4 of the lowest price you quoted and are regulated very nicely. Most Euro combo guns are very good as nobody would tolerated shoddy craftsmanship in the firearms industry, I'm talking guns made for local consumption not for export. Tikkas, Bernardellis , BRNOs, Valmets, Marrochis can be found under a thousand and sometime closer to half that if your willing to deal with odd calibers. Note my two are in 5.6x50R Mag and 6.5x58R Sauer and will shoot sub MOA groups at 200 yards with the 1x4 scopes mounted on them if I wait for the barrels to cool between shots. I just sold a Marrochi in 222 Rem that would hold under an inch at 100 yards without having to wait for it to cool, it had separate barrels that were adjustable for impact
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: Ripper on March 17, 2015, 03:06:39 PM: For hunting the brush on the West side I think the 12 or 20 ga. is the way to go. I have shot more deer with my 12g than anything else. I was going to use it for bear hunting but a lot of the clearcuts pose too long of a shot for a shotgun. A 12 gauge will kill any animal that walks in North America. I shoot 385 g Nosler Partitions out of my Thompson Pro Hunter with a 28" rifled barrel. I would take a shot out to 150-200 yards with it. I've read stories about people shooting deer out to 240 yards but that's pushing it for me. So far my longest shot was 116 yards. If you want to keep your smooth bore barrel then I would second what was said earlier about Brenneke slugs. I killed a couple of deer in Indiana with them when I was a kid. Good luck.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: hrd2fnd on March 18, 2015, 06:57:55 PM: I know this topic has been :beatdeadhorse: but I'm now trying to decide between the Mossberg 500 combo and Remington 870 combo. Why such a $$$ difference between the two? They both have their followers with good and bad feelings on one or the other. Decisions decisions
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: lokidog on March 18, 2015, 09:37:54 PM: I've got an 870 and have always loved it, however it is a 1963 Wingmaster and I think was made better than today, though I have not shot any of the newer ones. As mentioned previously, we have a Mossberg 500 and have had no complaints about it. The thumb safety can be handy.

My biggest tip is to make sure the rifled barrel has the cantilevered scope mount on it.

Good luck on your search.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Combination guns
Post by: Bofire on March 19, 2015, 07:53:39 AM: :) I would go 870, about 12 million of them out there with all sorts of stuff for them. There is a big difference between the Express and Wingmaster. I have seen several Moss. 500's that the thumb safety on the tang is gone but many do like them.
Carl