Post by: KFhunter on March 17, 2015, 10:58:32 PM
but I don't plan to trial or compete her, work schedule won't allow that. Suppose I could let someone else do it. If she was less enthusiastic I'd spay her no question.
Post by: KFhunter on March 17, 2015, 10:59:22 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on March 18, 2015, 07:17:43 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 18, 2015, 07:47:55 AM
If I'm going to cut a male dog I do it YOUNG.... I don't want them knowing they're a male. I absolutely hate spending the first ten minutes of a hunt watching a dog pee on every bush and tire around :o
It seems to work for me. I'm curious what others have found.
Post by: Cougar Gold on March 18, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 19, 2015, 08:06:31 AM
One primary function is the hormones produced help allow/influence completion of brain, muscle and skeletal development. Another is the full development of the female parts which can be slightly changed after the first cycle. Slight inverted vulvas are typically corrected after a heat cycle which reduces future chances of UTI infections. It is also said cancer development is statistically lower the longer you wait to spay. especially if done after a couple years but, before they get too old.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 19, 2015, 08:13:12 AM
By spaying before the first heat, you can almost guarantee no cancer in the mammary glands. Chance of cancer increases significantly if you don't.
I have never read that it is reduced cancer if done "Before" the first heat cycle. I have read that long term intact females do have a higher rate of mammary cancer and a few studies have suggested that early spaying helps reduce the risk, no eliminate it. I have also read a few studies which suggest that spaying early in their "later" years reduces chances the most. i.e.- 6-8 years old. This is also the time cancer is most likely to first show an appearance in most larger/working breeds.
Post by: AspenBud on March 19, 2015, 11:37:45 AM
By spaying before the first heat, you can almost guarantee no cancer in the mammary glands. Chance of cancer increases significantly if you don't.
I have never read that it is reduced cancer if done "Before" the first heat cycle. I have read that long term intact females do have a higher rate of mammary cancer and a few studies have suggested that early spaying helps reduce the risk, no eliminate it. I have also read a few studies which suggest that spaying early in their "later" years reduces chances the most. i.e.- 6-8 years old. This is also the time cancer is most likely to first show an appearance in most larger/working breeds.
I can tell you straight up that this is preached in every veterinary school these days. I can also say I think it's mainly pushed as a way to get people to spay their dogs so as to keep the dog population under control.
Frankly I'm not convinced either side it right. Spaying and neutering a dog is really a matter of what works best for a given owner, dog, and situation.
But in support of the argument for not spaying or neutering, it's my understanding that Europeans rarely have the procedures done, yet they don't have as big of a dog over population problem. I doubt they sweat mammary cancer much too.
Post by: KFhunter on March 21, 2015, 04:33:58 PM
The vets preach to bring the dog in before a cycle and if you don't they charge more money. I don't know why they'd charge almost double if spayed after a cycle? My main concern was cancer, last dog cost me a small fortune with cancer like problems.
I can certainly buy into the maturing thing
Post by: ghosthunter on March 21, 2015, 04:47:37 PM
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.
On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.
Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do. This is just what I experienced. :twocents:
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 21, 2015, 09:27:47 PM
When I first saw the thread I figured it was a poll about Bobcat!! :chuckle:
Post by: jetjockey on March 22, 2015, 02:41:38 PM
I have had only two female labs. Both I had spayed at around 6 months or so. I just asked the vet what he thought and went with it. When I was looking for my first pup I talked to several guys who had been urged to let the dog have one litter.
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.
On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.
Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do. This is just what I experienced. :twocents:
This was a real concern for me when we bred our brittany since we trial her. The trainer made it very clear that after the litter was whelped, the pups would get weened at 3 weeks, and my female would be put right back to work. He said that he's seen too many good females have a litter of pups, and decide they like being moms more than field trial dogs. That's why he weens so quickly after the litter is born. After my females litter, she had the best fall trial season of her career, so she didn't slow down any. But I was very concerned about it.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 23, 2015, 08:23:11 AM
There are all sorts of wives tales out there and most are just that. Some stuff you hear from trainers is the worst too. :chuckle: Few good trainers have time to deal with puppies. They are on the road, traveling to trials or moving about training grounds all year.
Post by: AspenBud on March 23, 2015, 09:49:55 AM
I have had only two female labs. Both I had spayed at around 6 months or so. I just asked the vet what he thought and went with it. When I was looking for my first pup I talked to several guys who had been urged to let the dog have one litter.
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.
On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.
Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do. This is just what I experienced. :twocents:
This was a real concern for me when we bred our brittany since we trial her. The trainer made it very clear that after the litter was whelped, the pups would get weened at 3 weeks, and my female would be put right back to work. He said that he's seen too many good females have a litter of pups, and decide they like being moms more than field trial dogs. That's why he weens so quickly after the litter is born. After my females litter, she had the best fall trial season of her career, so she didn't slow down any. But I was very concerned about it.
Apparently these dogs didn't get that message...
http://www.hifivekennels.com/dams.htm (http://www.hifivekennels.com/dams.htm)
https://harddrivingbev.wordpress.com/ (https://harddrivingbev.wordpress.com/)
I don't know about when the pups were weened but these dogs, and there are many many others out there, didn't slow down a bit.
Post by: jetjockey on March 23, 2015, 11:50:21 AM
Post by: WRL on March 23, 2015, 04:18:10 PM
If a bitch is spayed after the first heat cycle or two, her chances of mammary cancer are not increased by much more than a percentage of 1%.
I would recommend spaying at about the 15 month age. MOST females will not have come into season by then.
WRL
Post by: KFhunter on May 18, 2015, 08:38:40 PM
was acting stupid for almost a week so I knew it was coming, 3 days into it so far not too bad. I kennel her so no blood all over the house and no chance of a male getting to her.
Britt's pretty typical for heat cycles? 21 days or so of heat and 6-8 months of heat free freedom?
Post by: buglebuster on May 18, 2015, 10:06:18 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 18, 2015, 10:11:40 PM
Post by: jetjockey on May 19, 2015, 10:51:20 AM
uggg - she's in heat
was acting stupid for almost a week so I knew it was coming, 3 days into it so far not too bad. I kennel her so no blood all over the house and no chance of a male getting to her.
Britt's pretty typical for heat cycles? 21 days or so of heat and 6-8 months of heat free freedom?
They are all different, but what you said is pretty typical. My brit hasn't come in since her litter, which was last July. That's why I had to bring her into heat to breed her. If we breed her again, I'm sure I'll have to bring her into heat again. BTW. Doggy diapers work well when they are in season. The dogs look stupid, but they work when the dog is in the house.
Post by: AspenBud on May 19, 2015, 01:58:31 PM
My 1 1/2 year old black lab female is in heat as well, her 2nd heat. I also keep her in a kennel, but had her loose in the yard on sunday. I went in the house for a bit and come back outside. About 45 min later I noticed she wasn't around, she got out somehow. Walked down the driveway and found her hanging out with a black male mutt! Praying for the best but preparing for the worst... :bash:
I believe a vet might be able to supply you with something to abort that.
Post by: Holg3107 on May 19, 2015, 02:10:11 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 20, 2015, 05:09:37 PM
My 1 1/2 year old black lab female is in heat as well, her 2nd heat. I also keep her in a kennel, but had her loose in the yard on sunday. I went in the house for a bit and come back outside. About 45 min later I noticed she wasn't around, she got out somehow. Walked down the driveway and found her hanging out with a black male mutt! Praying for the best but preparing for the worst... :bash:
I believe a vet might be able to supply you with something to abort that.
I'll keep that in mind as well if something happens
Post by: KFhunter on May 20, 2015, 05:26:47 PM
If your not going to breed what would you not spay your dog? Also sounds like you aren't going to be running in any competitions so this is just a house / hunting dog. Having a dog that is not spayed is a pain in the butt and not worth the worry/hastle as far as I'm concerned. :twocents:
I've always spayed before 1st cycle, but there's a lot of pro's and cons on doing that. I wanted to see if she matured and developed better, I had a lot of problems with my last dog which started not long after spaying. Probably not related though, but who knows :dunno: Had a high fever then started developing lesions all over, more fevers, more lesions rinse repeat another large vet bill.... and eventually death at 5 years old.
I think the early spay is PETA/HSUS propaganda, lot of pseudo science, warnings of cancer, cheaper to spay etc etc.. before 1st cycle - all junk science.
The dog should develop better if it has a proper puberty.
In the livestock world there's pretty big differences in steers/barrows and other neutered animals - it's got to hold true for dogs even females.
Post by: AspenBud on May 21, 2015, 08:39:45 AM
If your not going to breed what would you not spay your dog? Also sounds like you aren't going to be running in any competitions so this is just a house / hunting dog. Having a dog that is not spayed is a pain in the butt and not worth the worry/hastle as far as I'm concerned. :twocents:
I've always spayed before 1st cycle, but there's a lot of pro's and cons on doing that. I wanted to see if she matured and developed better, I had a lot of problems with my last dog which started not long after spaying. Probably not related though, but who knows :dunno: Had a high fever then started developing lesions all over, more fevers, more lesions rinse repeat another large vet bill.... and eventually death at 5 years old.
I think the early spay is PETA/HSUS propaganda, lot of pseudo science, warnings of cancer, cheaper to spay etc etc.. before 1st cycle - all junk science.
The dog should develop better if it has a proper puberty.
In the livestock world there's pretty big differences in steers/barrows and other neutered animals - it's got to hold true for dogs even females.
Some of the obvious musculoskeletal differences... less muscle mass, longer legs, etc. I've had all of my dogs fixed if they didn't already come that way to me.
The next dog I won't, at least not for a couple of years. I don't hunt my dogs as hard and often as some but there are times I demand everything they have and I feel a dog that has been allowed to fill out as it should is better able to handle those physical demands.
Most dogs in Europe are not fixed. People somehow manage to live with them.
Post by: KFhunter on May 21, 2015, 10:05:02 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 21, 2015, 10:38:43 AM
My 1 1/2 year old black lab female is in heat as well, her 2nd heat. I also keep her in a kennel, but had her loose in the yard on sunday. I went in the house for a bit and come back outside. About 45 min later I noticed she wasn't around, she got out somehow. Walked down the driveway and found her hanging out with a black male mutt! Praying for the best but preparing for the worst... :bash:
I believe a vet might be able to supply you with something to abort that.
Take her to the vet asap and they can give her something to abort, but I'm almost positive they told me there is a time limit when I had it done several years ago when one of my females accidentally got bred. At least call and ask.