Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on January 01, 2009, 06:38:52 PM
Post by: canyoncrosser on January 01, 2009, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: bowhuntin on January 01, 2009, 09:05:24 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,16717.0.html
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on January 01, 2009, 09:12:08 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 01, 2009, 10:11:07 PM
Post by: muleyguy on January 04, 2009, 08:56:55 PM
So, in effect, you have to attack it from a PR standpoint (which is probably not going to be that effective) and/or trying to use existing laws to throw up roadblocks to the them (gates, etc). The first order of business is to FORCE the WDFW to admit in their population surveys, and rule making, the effects of tribal hunting. This should be achievable because they are a state agency, legally mandated to explain their rule making. This will probably not achieve much, but, it will at least get some light on the issue. A coordinated PR campaign with pictures, along with WDFW, MIGHT slow them down, although I doubt it. The WDFW essentially "covers up" what is going on at this point with tribal hunting. They do this because they do not want to anger the tribe. In their eyes, the only way to deal with the tribe is to try and work with them. In the long run, this strategy will not work because the tribe is interested in expressing their rights to the fullest, not in limiting their members ability to hunt where they want, or in good game management.
The reason the yakama tribal members hunt off of the reservation is that they have essentially ruined big game hunting on the reservation through excess harvesting. The tribes record with big game management speaks for itself. The individual tribal members hunting are interested in the same thing as all hunters; shooting the largest horned animal they can; to accomplish this goal, they need to go off of the reservation.
Tribal leadership is not interested in proper game management, especially off the reservation, it is only interested in expressing their rights as a tribe to the fullest, to hunt and fish in usual and accustomed places. In their mind, the tribe should get as many elk as they want first, and then, the non-natives should take what is left. They believe they come first, and we get the leftovers.
The second way to attack this is through something like gating ,etc. These are good ideas, and, I believe there are other potential solutions like this that could work. At the end of the day, these guys are just native slob hunters, no different than non-native slob hunters; interested in taking the largest antlered animal they can with the least amount of work. A small amount of "roadblocks" will go a long ways towards stopping some of this.
To achieve this goal though, the WDFW has to be the leader. They can get the gating done with all the different agencies; task forces can be put together to look at other potential ideas, like gating, that could slow this down.
Unfortunately, though, at the end of the day, I see little from the WDFW that would suggest that they are willing to look at any of this in a serious way though. Maybe, with enough pressure from legislators, you could force the WDFW to do something. But, stop wasting time with WDFW and start sending your letters to the state legistlators in these hunting areas.
At the end of the day, Washington state has the largest population base and is the smallest of any western state; it also has a relatively large amount of indian tribes. You put all of this together, and, going forward, to keep deer and elk herds healthy in this state is going to require increasingly restrictive regulations, that is just the truth of it.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 05, 2009, 08:29:49 PM
Post by: muleyguy on January 05, 2009, 09:20:35 PM
this is especially true of the yakama tribe; they have some of the best deer and elk habitat in the state; they have some of the most productive farm lands in the state; they have some of the most productive forests in the state. Most of the problems with slob tribal hunting comes from the yakama's. This is not surprising because if you live in the area, you realize it is one of the most corrupt, poorly managed tribes in the West. Many tribes were given reservations in areas with poor resources (land, water, timber,agriculture) and thus are truly in a tough position to make their reservations financially stable.
not the case with the Yakama's; they have been handed a silver platter, and they still manage to screw it up. The Yakama tribe should be one of the wealthiest tribes in the United States. They only thing that seems to actually give them some drive is to stick it to the white man, and, that is a sad thing, because at the end of the day they are missing the bigger picture and only hurting themselves.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 10, 2009, 09:22:35 PM
Post by: woodswalker on January 15, 2009, 12:13:29 PM
I don't have ALL the answers, but i have SEEN Yakimas take only racks from trophy bulls shot in the Manastash unit, leaving the rest of the carcass to rot but for the backstraps and tenderloins. In fact that is why I bought a digital camera that i carry with me all the time I'm IN the woods. I shoot photos and file...and do NOT see anything happen.
Post by: boneaddict on January 15, 2009, 12:50:45 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 15, 2009, 12:57:25 PM
COlville has done well. I still don't like some of their practices and think it should be the same for all, but they are pretty good managers of their game. The Yakimas are PITIFUL. Pheasants are abouthte only thing they have done well by.
Except for the TWO elk reintroductions -they killed all the animals in the first, so the WDFW in their gentle kindness gave them another chance. :bash:
Post by: yelp on January 15, 2009, 01:47:01 PM
Post by: Gobble Gobble on January 15, 2009, 02:17:00 PM
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The Yakama tribe should be one of the wealthiest tribes in the United States.
I probably will not hunt the Yakima Res any more as I'm tire paying the $31 a year for the Res permit to hunt upland game and get the Res map for all the "Feel Free to Hunt" land only to go to the fields and find there posted "NO Hunting." There getting the money from the state to make their land FFtH only to turn around pocket the handout and then post No Hunting.
Where is all the money going from the Casino? Isn't it supposed to go back to the Tribe members? You get out of town (Granger, Toppenish, White Swan) and all you see is run down single wides with blankets in the windows.
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2009, 03:57:17 PM
Its going to come down to someone confronting one of them over a dead animal and I fear someone getting killed. I think at that point something may be done but intil then its just not that big a deal. :twocents:
Post by: firefighter4607 on January 19, 2009, 11:51:14 AM
Where is all the money going from the Casino? Isn't it supposed to go back to the Tribe members? You get out of town (Granger, Toppenish, White Swan) and all you see is run down single wides with blankets in the windows.
[/quote]
First off why are you paying the indians to hunt? I would think that since their big game has been shot to nothing, so would there birds.
Second the tribes do get money they just spend it on beer,drugs and new cars! They wait for the government to buy them homes and then they treat them like *censored* and don't do the upkeep to them. If you drive through Toppenish to get to I-84 once you get to an old run down rail yard with a gain elevator you will see a ton of homes on the east side of the road that look run down and like junk, those homes where build by our government in the early 1990's like 92-93, they are for the Yakama tribe to live in. That is also true to other homes though out the res.
Post by: alanger on January 19, 2009, 11:54:20 AM
well this is what they do and what they will continue to do. i did not make this to say something racist or offensive. its jsut the way it is until it stops. It's up to all of us who care to make a difference or it will never happen.
think about what u can do. brainstorm it.
Post by: Gobble Gobble on January 19, 2009, 03:13:40 PM
Quote
First off why are you paying the indians to hunt? I would think that since their big game has been shot to nothing, so would there birds.
2008 was my first year big game hunting before that all I had done was Turkey and upland game. There are lots of birds to be had on the Rez. Now that I am a member of this site and I know more about what is going on I will no longer give them my money and will look for other places to do my upland hunting. Until now I had only had a negative thought towards the Natives when it came to fishing and the use of nets. Now I know more thanks to this site I dislike the long leash or lack there of the government has on them when it comes to rules and treaty rights.
If you ask me and it will probably open up another can of pissed off worms but the natives could be one in the same as the illegals from south of the boarder getting all the good treatment from the government handouts to where there is no need to work or better themselves.
Post by: colockumelk on January 19, 2009, 03:20:21 PM
This is what I propose. I'm sure many of you have written letters that have drawn little if any response from the game department. As individuals we can not hope to get anything done. But as a group that works as a team towards a common goal we can do anything. As an individual we are limited by our many flaws, but as a team there isn't anything we can't accomplish. If we get enough people to participate they'll have to do something. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation was started by a few hunters twenty some years ago and look how much they've accomplished.
This is what we need to do. We need to begin an activist group much like RMEF or Green Peace to begin to work towards making Indian hunters abide by the same rules and regulations that we do. I was born in America so how am I any less of a Native American than an Indian is? Currently we as Non-Indian hunters are second class citizens. Non of the other Western states allow their Indian tribes to hunt all year round killing as many animals as they want to outside of their reservations so why should Washington be different?
We need to band together and start having meetings and raise money and find lawyers and collect our own evidence about how unfair and stupid this practise is so we can bring it to our state legislature. We need to start a petition around here and maybe even state wide to show how serious we really are and that it's time to stop. Right now they blame it on poachers or even us (we kill too many spikes) but if they are faced with overwhelming evidence that only you as outdoorsmen who are out there all the time, then they'll have to listen. Imagine if they tried to say we're a bunch of ignorant people and then we show them a bunch of pics using game cameras of truck loads of dead elk driven by Indians coming out of the Colockum. We also need to see if groups like RMEF and Mule Deer Forever etc will help out as well since they've done this sort of thing before.
I know I spoke mostly about the Colockum but Yakima hunters need to band with us together as well since they Yakama's do the same thing to your herds. This message is sort of a feeler message to find out if any of you are interested in starting a group with a President, Vice President, Treasurer, and Secretary etc. The whole nine yards. We can't go half way, we're either all in or not at all.
I've started an email address for this purpose. Its' colockumelk@yahoo.com
If you have any comments or ideas or if you would like to start a group with me that would be great. If you know community organizers or key leaders this would also be great. I'd like to begin having meetings no later than March. Obviously the sooner the better. Also if you have any pics of Indians with big bulls or elk etc, or what would be great is if we could get people to start putting their game cameras higher up in some trees just off of the roads so we can get some good pics of truck loads of dead elk and deer in the back of their vehicles. The game department might be unwilling but we're not. Enough is enough. If you want to help out please email me back lets set up a group meeting to finally put an end to the insanity that it unlimited tribal hunting.
Hunters
Against
Unlimited hunting by
Native
Tribes
Post by: alanger on January 19, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Post by: firefighter4607 on January 19, 2009, 04:08:59 PM
2008 was my first year big game hunting before that all I had done was Turkey and upland game. There are lots of birds to be had on the Rez.
That's interesting to know, I had no idea that they had alot of birds.
Clockumelk this is a great idea. I would like to be part of it.
Post by: colockumelk on February 17, 2009, 03:01:12 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on February 17, 2009, 11:01:58 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 18, 2009, 02:01:50 PM
Post by: ponyboy156 on February 22, 2009, 08:08:09 AM
Quote
it seems strange that alot of the natives in wa have emptied there reservations of big game. i dont know many details , but i do know the natives in arizona have managed the elk herds there extremley well.(white pines, san carlos)
Ive often wondered this myself. I believe the nates down there manage their herds to a T. Often manipulating habitat through prescribed burns to maximize forage and carrying capacity of the land. They also restrict native take through a draw similar to our special permits. This also allows them to sell a small number of permits to non-natives for huge amounts, both providing money for the tribes economy as well as conservation efforts.
Ive got a feelin i just spewed a bunch of info everybody already knows..... I just wish some of the tribes up here had a similar view on wildlife management as some of the south west tribes. There.. :twocents:...done venting.
Post by: couesbitten on February 22, 2009, 10:59:55 AM
Post by: littlebuf on February 22, 2009, 01:40:43 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 22, 2009, 11:15:16 PM
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 23, 2009, 08:40:32 AM