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Equipment & Gear => Power Equipment & RV => Topic started by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 09:32:13 AM


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Title: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 09:32:13 AM
Howdy,

Looking at getting a diesel pick-up, have never owned one before, so am very green as far as what to look for, avoid, etc.

Be searching for awhile now, and have decided to go look at a 2004 F-250 Super Duty. Powerstroke, 2WD, super cab, short box.

I have owned a 1999 Super Duty, but it was gas.  I really liked it, and in hindsight, wish I still had it...I know...I know!!

The biggest draws were the cab confort levels and spaciousness, and it hauled anything I threw at it.

The one we are headed out to check out tonight has just over 100,000 miles, is the Powerstroke, automatic, and just a very nice, clean looking rig.

Not wanting a new truck, just cannot justify the prices, so looking in early to mid 2000's model years.

Is there anything about the Powerstrokes in those year trucks, trannies etc., to be cautious of or look for?

Thanks for any insights.




Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: huntnphool on April 30, 2015, 09:36:38 AM
04's had a 6.0L, my advice would be to drop a year and look for a early '03 7.3L.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: 2labs on April 30, 2015, 09:41:43 AM
Do some research. That engine is a boat anchor!!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 30, 2015, 09:46:47 AM
I have done tons of research as I have considered making the jump to a diesel as well. If you want a Ford find a 7.3 even if it has more miles you'll be better off. Otherwise (and it pains me to say this) look at a Chevy or GMC.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 30, 2015, 09:49:33 AM
Instead of dropping a year, drop a tenth of a liter and go with a 5.9 Cummins.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 09:52:21 AM
Thanks everyone, appreciate the info!!

What is the specific issue(s) with the 6.0l vs 7.3?

Is it just a power level difference or mechanical/reliability issues?
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Doc Sauce on April 30, 2015, 09:54:41 AM
I have an 06 f35o... with a 6.0L.  Bought it for next to nothing because of the "boat anchor" engine.  Spent a little bit of money to upgrade weak parts of the engine (insert jokes here) and came out spending less than I could have on any of the others, unless I went with a much MUCH older truck.  I didn't want to do that because I cannot verify how it was maintained or treated previously. 

Bought it with 60,000 miles, did the work, have 154,000 miles on it now... have towed heavy loads across the country (mountains, desert, city traffic) and have had zero problems. 

I am extremely happy with my 6 liter.  Very happy with it.  Plenty of power, good fuel milage.

Just my opinion... 
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 30, 2015, 09:56:09 AM
6.0 fords can be made into a reliable beast but require some spendy upgrades to accomplish this.
The 7.3 is a solid motor, known somewhat for injector issues but in most cases that can be tracked back to lack of oil maintenance.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 30, 2015, 09:57:07 AM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,171554.0.html
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 30, 2015, 09:58:26 AM
Thanks everyone, appreciate the info!!

What is the specific issue(s) with the 6.0l vs 7.3?

Is it just a power level difference or mechanical/reliability issues?
6.0 are well known for their horrible reliability. At the opposite end the 7.3 was as close to a bullet proof engine as Ford made.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 30, 2015, 09:58:42 AM
6.0 fords can be made into a reliable beast but require some spendy upgrades to accomplish this.


 :yeah:

Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 30, 2015, 10:04:02 AM
Are you looking at auto trans or man?
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: jstone on April 30, 2015, 10:10:46 AM
Doc Sauce what did yu do to your 6.0 I am thinking on having the head bolts done? How much and what did you do? My truck needs to last me 3 more years. I have 144000 on it. 2003
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Skillet on April 30, 2015, 10:11:37 AM
I have an 06 f35o... with a 6.0L.  Bought it for next to nothing because of the "boat anchor" engine.  Spent a little bit of money to upgrade weak parts of the engine (insert jokes here) and came out spending less than I could have on any of the others, unless I went with a much MUCH older truck.  I didn't want to do that because I cannot verify how it was maintained or treated previously. 

Bought it with 60,000 miles, did the work, have 154,000 miles on it now... have towed heavy loads across the country (mountains, desert, city traffic) and have had zero problems. 

I am extremely happy with my 6 liter.  Very happy with it.  Plenty of power, good fuel milage.

Just my opinion...
Exactly this.  I have an '06 F250 6.0 as well.  I bought it new and have 115k on it now.  Just recently did a lot of the suggested preventative maintenance on the internals and feel I'm good to go for another 200k now.  Wasn't really that much money in the grand scheme of things.  Would have preferred not to have to do it, but it is what it is. A weekend of wrenching and it was done.
As Doc says, you can get good ones on the cheap because of their rep.  If you go this route though, I would never buy one without pulling an Oasis report on it to see what was fixed under warranty, and hooking up a Scanguage to it on the test drive to check your engine oil/engine coolant temp deltas. That way you know what you're looking at before you buy.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
Are you looking at auto trans or man?

It is an automatic.

I am also erring on the safe side and figuring that the truck has had no modifications done to it, and is completely stock.

Plans for use are hauling a two-horse trailer and a car trailer with a vehicle or hay, etc., not looking at big loads of heavy freight. 

Not really needing or wanting it to be a 4wd, but there is a 1999 with a 7.3 with a little more miles, 150,000ish, super cab, long box, automatic at bacically the same price point.

Assuming both are stock, and considering the "normal" risks involved with buying unknown, used, it sounds like the better gamble is to just pass on 6.0 and go with the 7.3, just in general history/experiences?

Any vehicle, used is a rick, but it is sounding like the 6.0 does or will need some serious work, basically just "because?"

Maybe we should just look for a gas V-8....  :o








Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 30, 2015, 10:40:02 AM
Are you looking at auto trans or man?

It is an automatic.

I am also erring on the safe side and figuring that the truck has had no modifications done to it, and is completely stock.

Plans for use are hauling a two-horse trailer and a car trailer with a vehicle or hay, etc., not looking at big loads of heavy freight. 

Not really needing or wanting it to be a 4wd, but there is a 1999 with a 7.3 with a little more miles, 150,000ish, super cab, long box, automatic at bacically the same price point.

Assuming both are stock, and considering the "normal" risks involved with buying unknown, used, it sounds like the better gamble is to just pass on 6.0 and go with the 7.3, just in general history/experiences?

Any vehicle, used is a rick, but it is sounding like the 6.0 does or will need some serious work, basically just "because?"

Maybe we should just look for a gas V-8....  :o
Unless you are really going to use a diesel for what they are built for, they are not worth the extra coin it costs to keep them on the road with no breakdowns.  :twocents:
All that said, if you are gonna buy a diesel with an auto trans, Duramax/Allison is the easy choice.  :twocents:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 30, 2015, 10:44:22 AM
The 99 you mentioned is a better choice, opposed to the 6.0 truck. IMO
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 30, 2015, 10:49:52 AM
Unfortunately if you don't tow/haul heavy often you may be best to get a gasser.

Out of all the diesel pickups available the 6.0 will be the least reliable in stock form. If you have very little knowledge of diesels and not much time nor desire to learn about them you should steer clear of the 6.0. The labor costs to upgrade one can be just as much if not more than the parts, depending on the deal you get it may pencil out but often times having a shop do the work on one can put you right up there in cost with a more reliable diesel right of the lot.
 
 
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on April 30, 2015, 10:50:11 AM
Instead of dropping a year, drop a tenth of a liter and go with a 5.9 Cummins.



 :yeah:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 10:53:08 AM
Thanks all, been very helpful, much appreciated!!!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Dhoey07 on April 30, 2015, 11:06:19 AM
Buy a duramax with the 6 speed allison and be done  :twocents:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Taco280AI on April 30, 2015, 11:14:27 AM
Like others have said, avoid the 6.0 - is tons on it online, so GTS  :chuckle:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Doc Sauce on April 30, 2015, 11:24:56 AM
I did ARP headstuds, upgraded the EGR, and moved the Oil Cooler from the top of the engine to the front. 

I agree with the Allison transmission comment... and the comment about the cost of keeping a truck on the road. 

I think I paid a little less than 8 grand for all the work. 

The reason I didn't go with a 7.3 was because I couldn't find one with lower miles in my price range.  The ones I could afford were pushing 250,000 miles or more, or were lower miles with pretty beat up bodies. 

For a little less than 18,000 I got a pretty solid truck with low miles. 

I'm not trying to defend the 6L or even sell anybody on doing what I did... I'm just answering the question that was asked to me and posting my opinion of my truck and experience. 
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on April 30, 2015, 11:46:50 AM
Thank you, going to go ahead and look at as I have an appointment scheduled and I am also going to look at a few others as well, including some 7.3's and least one 5.4L gas...

I really am ignorant when it comes to diesel rigs, so every one who has taken time to share experiences and insight, THANK YOU!!!

Nothing can compare to real world experiences from folks who have no dog in the fight.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 30, 2015, 12:04:12 PM
EGR equipped Duramax's have issues as well.

Yes the Allison trans is good but if you look at the torque input ratings on the Ford 5r110 and 6r140 it smashes the Allison and Dodge auto's. Ford's 5r110 and 6r140 auto is rated at double the torque input as the Allison.

http://www.dieselhub.com/compare/torqshift-vs-allison-vs-68RE.html

http://www.dieselhub.com/compare/torqshift-vs-allison-vs-48RE.html
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KenPCPilot on April 30, 2015, 12:16:15 PM
Are you looking at auto trans or man?

It is an automatic.
I have owned 2 F-250 superduty trucks.  Mechanically no problems.  As from quote above buy a diesel only if you plan on pulling heavier trailers or camper boat combo, horse trailers.  I have always had large travel trailers and a diesel the is way to go.  climbed a 20 mile long grade in Canadien rockies and never fell below 55 mph.  don't buy it with fuel mileage in mind as it is sort of stupid considering it is a truck.  But with that said my brother in law has a V-10 in is F-250 and empties his tank in about 2 hours pulling his trailer which is amost identical to mine. 

I am also erring on the safe side and figuring that the truck has had no modifications done to it, and is completely stock.

Plans for use are hauling a two-horse trailer and a car trailer with a vehicle or hay, etc., not looking at big loads of heavy freight. 

Not really needing or wanting it to be a 4wd, but there is a 1999 with a 7.3 with a little more miles, 150,000ish, super cab, long box, automatic at bacically the same price point.

Assuming both are stock, and considering the "normal" risks involved with buying unknown, used, it sounds like the better gamble is to just pass on 6.0 and go with the 7.3, just in general history/experiences?

Any vehicle, used is a rick, but it is sounding like the 6.0 does or will need some serious work, basically just "because?"

Maybe we should just look for a gas V-8....  :o
Unless you are really going to use a diesel for what they are built for, they are not worth the extra coin it costs to keep them on the road with no breakdowns.  :twocents:
All that said, if you are gonna buy a diesel with an auto trans, Duramax/Allison is the easy choice.  :twocents:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: cohoho on April 30, 2015, 05:35:22 PM
04's had a 6.0L, my advice would be to drop a year and look for a early '03 7.3L.

Yep - exactly!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: JODakota on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
Wow lots of ford and Chevy lovers on here. I am seriously surprised. Here's the industry standard for hauling though and that is simply put, Cummins. I have yet to see anything else used out here (oil industry) that isn't a dodge 2500 on up. And in this world, it is BIGGER and HEAVIER than anything you can imagine.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: WA hunter14 on April 30, 2015, 05:59:21 PM
why 2wd?
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: GoPlayOutside on April 30, 2015, 06:40:03 PM
Don't get the 6.0!!!!!!!
Ford should have been forced to RECALL this motor. 
I'm in the construction industry, and have seen more than 15 of these 6.0's go tits up. (over and over and over).

Find a 7.3.

Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: JODakota on April 30, 2015, 06:58:40 PM
Dude 6.7l in cummins, problem solved
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Mudman on April 30, 2015, 07:12:38 PM
Manuals=1st.  Cummins, pre 08 5.9 1st.  7.3 2nd.  Duramax pre emissions.  Dodge autos great after rebuilt right.  Chev best stock.  Fords ok.  7.3 autos will need rebuilt.  5.4 ford gas = garbage fuel spiller.  My 01 Ford 7.3 was favotite but trans kept going.  05 Cummins now and its great and much more reliable and cheaper maint.  Look at 98-02 Dodge and Ford?  Care of truck more important than miles I think. :twocents:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on April 30, 2015, 07:15:43 PM
http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/4944251262.html

bullet proofed 6.0 F450
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: HntnFsh on April 30, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
Manuals=1st.  Cummins, pre 08 5.9 1st.  7.3 2nd.  Duramax pre emissions.  Dodge autos great after rebuilt right.  Chev best stock.  Fords ok.  7.3 autos will need rebuilt.  5.4 ford gas = garbage fuel spiller.  My 01 Ford 7.3 was favotite but trans kept going.  05 Cummins now and its great and much more reliable and cheaper maint.  Look at 98-02 Dodge and Ford?  Care of truck more important than miles I think. :twocents:

Ever hear of the Cummins 53 series, Cracked block issues? Fits those years!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Dhoey07 on April 30, 2015, 07:32:08 PM
Wow lots of ford and Chevy lovers on here. I am seriously surprised. Here's the industry standard for hauling though and that is simply put, Cummins. I have yet to see anything else used out here (oil industry) that isn't a dodge 2500 on up. And in this world, it is BIGGER and HEAVIER than anything you can imagine.

From what I've read, he doesn't live in your world.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 30, 2015, 08:21:06 PM
Manuals=1st.  Cummins, pre 08 5.9 1st.  7.3 2nd.  Duramax pre emissions.  Dodge autos great after rebuilt right.  Chev best stock.  Fords ok.  7.3 autos will need rebuilt.  5.4 ford gas = garbage fuel spiller.  My 01 Ford 7.3 was favotite but trans kept going.  05 Cummins now and its great and much more reliable and cheaper maint.  Look at 98-02 Dodge and Ford?  Care of truck more important than miles I think. :twocents:

Ever hear of the Cummins 53 series, Cracked block issues? Fits those years!

Don't forget about all the vp44 issues. They all puke at some point. Granted they are easier to work on then a 6.0 but still not cheap by any means. Some say the vp44 is only a 60k mile pump even when well fed with good clean fuel.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: xXLojackXx on April 30, 2015, 08:43:11 PM
SCHOOLED.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: JODakota on April 30, 2015, 08:47:38 PM
Wow lots of ford and Chevy lovers on here. I am seriously surprised. Here's the industry standard for hauling though and that is simply put, Cummins. I have yet to see anything else used out here (oil industry) that isn't a dodge 2500 on up. And in this world, it is BIGGER and HEAVIER than anything you can imagine.

From what I've read, he doesn't live in your world.

Well, he should!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Hunter mike on April 30, 2015, 08:47:45 PM
Cummins - you will not regret it!

I have an '03 and I would recommend the '03-'06 models if you can find a decent one.  Avoids a few of the minor pitfalls on earlier models.  I'd worry more about overall condition and maintenance records than the odometer reading - the power train is pretty bulletproof and a lot of maintenance will typically have to be done between 100-150k or so.  Probably nothing major, just typical wear parts.  If I could do it again, I'd get a manual but that said I've had no problems whatsoever with my automatic.  Don't hot rod the truck without a built transmission (and don't buy one that's been hot rodded unless you are sure everything has been done right).

Pre-'07 Duramax trucks are also nice - I think the cab configuration is nicer and more refined in the GM's.

Run away from Fords of this era.  The deals are so tempting due to the bad rep, but it's just not worth the potential headaches IMO.   
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on April 30, 2015, 09:26:10 PM
almost hard to find trucks that haven't been hooked up to a tuner box,  avoid those like the plague.

learn how to spot a truck that's had a tuner on it then re-coded back to factory spec for sale.

first thing I look at is the exhaust manifold for an EGT plug, is the air intake stock?  Is there a plug where a boost guage used to be?  Does the air intake appear to have been removed/re-installed?  fuse box been messed with?  Is there a non factory box plugged into the computer?

If so, don't buy it IMO
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 30, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Buy a duramax with the 6 speed allison and be done  :twocents:
:yeah:06 or 07, love mine. If it's lifted you lose mpg but the motor and tranny are bullet proof. Mine is a gmc
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: JODakota on April 30, 2015, 09:54:23 PM
almost hard to find trucks that haven't been hooked up to a tuner box,  avoid those like the plague.

learn how to spot a truck that's had a tuner on it then re-coded back to factory spec for sale.

first thing I look at is the exhaust manifold for an EGT plug, is the air intake stock?  Is there a plug where a boost guage used to be?  Does the air intake appear to have been removed/re-installed?  fuse box been messed with?  Is there a non factory box plugged into the computer?

If so, don't buy it IMO

^ this
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: docsven on April 30, 2015, 10:30:06 PM
I was in the same boat about 3 years ago, totaled my 5.7 Dodge 2500 and couldn't find anything comparable for sale, so I bought a 7.3 L F250. It's more than I need since I was no longer pulling 3 horses in a trailer. I used it to pull my camp trailer and firewood. I knew the tranny had been rebuilt and after 6 months had to rebuild it again. I'm happy with it, but not really using it for what it's worth. Would recommend just holding out for gas if I had it to do again.
But mine's not for sale. Lol
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: jackelope on May 01, 2015, 06:30:24 AM
A diesel truck is a pretty complex machine. I've worked in Dodge and Ford service departments. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Dodges are better and require less repair. But they all need repair at some point and it's typically not cheap. If you can buy a 6.0 right and plan to put $5k into it to bulletproof it, you might be golden.
If the engine is tuned for more boost, you should do head studs. Otherwise don't bother unless the heads have to come off.
Front ends suck on both of them, Dodge is worse on ball joints and front axle u joints.
Maintenance isn't bad on them, you just have to make sure you do it.
Don't buy a 2008-2009 ram.
The 6.4L fords can be just as bad as the 6.0's
I'd like to buy a 06-07 Duramax next I think.
If you don't need a diesel, I'm not sure if I would buy one. There are a lot of benefits to owning one, but there are downsides too. I'd probably just stick with a half ton. I do like the ability to do pretty much whatever you want if you decide to buy a trailer or boat or something. You won't be limited by your truck.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 01, 2015, 07:29:29 AM
Since i have owned 5 of them  I would say that a 2wd Dodge  stick is the way to go. IMO i would purchase an 03-06. The front ends are tough on the 2wd the 4wd need constant repair. I also think that if a 2wd is ok for your use that a decent deal can be had on them since everyone is looking for a 4wd.

I am in the middle of a Ford 6L rebuild and i can tell you that a 150k mile engine has a high likely hood of not pumping oil through the oil filter... Really bad design and likely causing excessive wear.... All over a couple of $1 plastic parts...
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Stump on May 01, 2015, 08:24:31 AM
I bought a new1997  F350 crew cab, 4 X 4, 7.3 and with the 410 rear end. 198,000 miles later still a great truck. My sweet spot hauling about anything is 2000 rpm. That's why I have he 410. Only thing is the glow plug light for that year goes out 8 seconds before it should.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Again, thanks for all the info.  We went on up because I had said I was going to, but I told them I was not interested in looking at the 6.0 but did look at a couple others. 

Test drove a 2004 gas Dodge, 5.7 Hemi 4wd, and a little sudo SUV, station wagon thing...I have no idea what it was, but my bride liked it!!

Still in the hunt, and thinking that a 3/4 or one-ton 2wd gas-burner will be more than adequate.  Of course, there are stacks of half-ton 4wd trucks, but the heavier ones seem to be few and far between, at least in my searches so far. 

Currently our tow and my daily driver is a 2002, 2wd Tahoe. Small V-8 and just over 201,000 miles. Pulls her hourse trailer with one horse decent, and can handle both horses, but is at the top end of capacity.

Again, thanks for all the info. 



Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: huntingaddiction on May 02, 2015, 03:54:11 AM
Horrible reliability right around 110.  Go with a 7.3 if you want a ford.  However get a 2001 or older.  In 2002 they started powder coating the rods verses forged metal.  Also if you can i would avoid an automatic especially if you are going to be towing.  Also if you get the fwo wheel drive you may regret it.  I would go with 4x4 just in case.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: salmonchaser on May 02, 2015, 07:21:42 AM
It's been well stated, run away from the 6 liter Ford. I've only owned 7 vehicles since 1974, all have been Ford trucks, the 2003 f350 the only diesel.  All of those trucks except the 6 liter went well over 250,000 miles. That Damn diesel nearly cost Ford a loyal customer.
I am a little disappointed with the newer F150 as far as towing is concerned. The trucks are built so light you really feel even a relatively light trailer, 2,000 pounds, and mileage falls off dramatically. I'll be stepping back up to a 3/4 ton next year as we're going to be towing much more. The jury is still out as to species and feed. I'll be following this thread to see what I can learn.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on May 02, 2015, 07:38:14 AM
Still looking, not going to completely rule a diesel out, other than the Ford 6.0, as I just don't want to gamble that big.

Part of me wants a a 4wd and part says less moving parts...less to break.

Half-tons are apparently breeding like rabbits, as you can't toss a Honda without hitting one it seems, and automatics...have they forgotten how to make manual transmissions for anything bigger than beer can sized cars??

The 3/4 & one-tons are hard to come by, which, to my mind says a lot!

Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Skillet on May 02, 2015, 07:55:49 AM
If you're willing to look at Suburbans, you can get a heck of a deal compared to similarly equipped trucks.   6.0, 4l80e in a 3/4 ton :twocents:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: MR5x5 on May 02, 2015, 08:00:34 AM
If you want to research Fords go to this site.  It's all there...

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on May 02, 2015, 09:36:55 AM
If you're willing to look at Suburbans, you can get a heck of a deal compared to similarly equipped trucks.   6.0, 4l80e in a 3/4 ton :twocents:

No SUV type vehicles, we have currently a Tahoe and want the open bed capability of a pick-up.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: brush hunter on May 02, 2015, 10:24:24 AM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: jackelope on May 02, 2015, 10:56:53 AM

If you're willing to look at Suburbans, you can get a heck of a deal compared to similarly equipped trucks.   6.0, 4l80e in a 3/4 ton :twocents:

Been out of the Chevy loop for a while, but is there such a thing as a 6.0 in a burb? Used to be in the new(now old)body style all you could get with a 3/4 ton was the 8.1L
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: syoungs on May 02, 2015, 11:22:46 AM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

pretty sure 200k miles rebuilds are not a common ford thing.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on May 02, 2015, 02:09:51 PM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

pretty sure 200k miles rebuilds are not a common ford thing.

They arent, even the 6.0's when properly upgraded will last a very long time. I'm working on a 1999 7.3 right know (needs injectors) that has 330k on it. It's a service truck and I know it's history the only repair it's ever had done previously was a torque converter replacement. I checked the compression In all 8 holes and they're still all at the high Ford spec, cut the oil filter open not a single piece of metal in it. Injectors, glow plugs and proper service intervalls it'll be good for another 100k plus, easilly.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: huntnphool on May 02, 2015, 07:27:11 PM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

 Like any vehicle, it's all in how you take care of it. I have a daily driver 7.3 with 400k+ on it. ;)
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: huntnphool on May 02, 2015, 07:30:52 PM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

pretty sure 200k miles rebuilds are not a common ford thing.

They arent, even the 6.0's when properly upgraded will last a very long time. I'm working on a 1999 7.3 right know (needs injectors) that has 330k on it. It's a service truck and I know it's history the only repair it's ever had done previously was a torque converter replacement. I checked the compression In all 8 holes and they're still all at the high Ford spec, cut the oil filter open not a single piece of metal in it. Injectors, glow plugs and proper service intervalls it'll be good for another 100k plus, easilly.

 Time for me to do injectors as well, 400k+ out of the stock isn't too bad I'd say!
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 02, 2015, 08:05:28 PM
One of the things ive done to my Dodges that really helps longevity i think is a 2 tier fuel filter system. I use the stock filter then a 2 micron spin on filter. There is a LOT of bad fuel out h
there where the places are not changing the pump filters often enough & they are running half empty tanks or less which causes bother condensation and rust on the inside of the tank. I had my first one installed at Dynamite diesel for something like $300 mostly because it was in the shop there anyway, but its a good investment for your injectors
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: 2labs on May 02, 2015, 08:12:26 PM
My 7.3 has 240 k on it with regular maintenance and some upgrades. Oil changes( 5w 40 delo synthetic ) and lubribor fuel additive for lubricity. Ultra low sulphur diesel is hard on injectors and pumps I believe.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: syoungs on May 02, 2015, 08:23:26 PM
Ive got a 17deg hpop and a set of rebuilt ad's sitting on a shelf waiting to go into my truck right now
.im close to 300k, 150k with a tuner and pretty crappy maint.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 02, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

pretty sure 200k miles rebuilds are not a common ford thing.

They arent, even the 6.0's when properly upgraded will last a very long time. I'm working on a 1999 7.3 right know (needs injectors) that has 330k on it. It's a service truck and I know it's history the only repair it's ever had done previously was a torque converter replacement. I checked the compression In all 8 holes and they're still all at the high Ford spec, cut the oil filter open not a single piece of metal in it. Injectors, glow plugs and proper service intervalls it'll be good for another 100k plus, easilly.

 Time for me to do injectors as well, 400k+ out of the stock isn't too bad I'd say!




Completely agree with Phools statement. Don't matter what brand. So here comes the ribbing on the ford diesal. :chuckle:    Do you carry a couple boxes or so of those glow plug thingies under the seat for weekly replacement? :chuckle:




Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on May 02, 2015, 10:40:46 PM
One of the things ive done to my Dodges that really helps longevity i think is a 2 tier fuel filter system. I use the stock filter then a 2 micron spin on filter. There is a LOT of bad fuel out h
there where the places are not changing the pump filters often enough & they are running half empty tanks or less which causes bother condensation and rust on the inside of the tank. I had my first one installed at Dynamite diesel for something like $300 mostly because it was in the shop there anyway, but its a good investment for your injectors

 :yeah:


especially on the newer phase fire injectors.  My old 95 could probably spit a hotwheels through the injector but not the newer rigs.

I dunno if phasefire is the wright word, but they fire multiple times on a piston stroke.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 02, 2015, 10:57:35 PM
All the newer common rail, or electrical controlled injectors are finiki compared to the old mechanical ones that were fairly noisy.

One other tip is to make sure you drain off some fuel. water from your fuel water separator on a regular basis. Some rigs like my dodges have it built into the fuel filter housing. Some others dont. I try and bleed a little off once every week or 2 after it has been sitting over night.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on May 02, 2015, 11:10:07 PM
I'm running DDP injectors
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: lamrith on May 03, 2015, 03:52:49 PM
Toying with getting a Diesel pickup myself now.  We need something for dump and landscaping runs and I want something to take and thrash in woods/desert for hunting and shooting.

Based on our budget we are looking older rigs than th OP, but figured keep the Diesel discussion in one place?

I saw a few Ford and Chevy in my price range and was curious how the drivetrains compare.  Anything to watch out for with these?
1988-92 Ford 7.3L
1992 Chevy Cheyenne (no engine displacement listed, just diesel)
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on May 03, 2015, 04:07:12 PM
Quote
Toying with getting a Diesel pickup myself now.  We need something for dump and landscaping runs and I want something to take and thrash in woods/desert for hunting and shooting.

unless you just like the idea of a diesel and have the pocket change to get what you want rather than what you need I'd suggest a gasser for the things you've listed,  especially for the woods/desert thrashing part.

Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: lamrith on May 03, 2015, 05:09:42 PM
Quote
Toying with getting a Diesel pickup myself now.  We need something for dump and landscaping runs and I want something to take and thrash in woods/desert for hunting and shooting.

unless you just like the idea of a diesel and have the pocket change to get what you want rather than what you need I'd suggest a gasser for the things you've listed,  especially for the woods/desert thrashing part.

It is partially the idea I do want a diesel, I have for years, more power and better economy in a larger rig.  Diesel fuel also can be stored longer and I can do the biodiesel thing too.  This is not a rig that will get driven daily by any means which is why I like the idea of diesel as well as it does not gum up as quickly as gas.

When I say thrash around I do not mean 4x4 playing just a solid strong rig to take hunting and shooting, big tough dependable for chugging up fire roads or desert blm/forest service roads.  Throw all my gear in the back add a canopy and I could even sleep in the back if need be.  Plenty of room to haul elk if I get one down.  Wife even mentioned getting a camper for the bed.

I could get a beater toyo/nissan or old F150 for <$1000, and thought about that a good bit.  But rather get a $3000 older diesel truck as long as they are reliable (if properly maintained).  Then I have the power if I need to tow/haul things which pops up sometimes.  I just do not know much about the diesel power plants. 

Plus the older rigs have plenty of aftermarket from years of people modding them.  Lots of parts in JY too for repairs.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on May 03, 2015, 06:14:06 PM
diesel gets sludge if it sits too long, lot of folks call it "diesel algae" but it's not really an algae like in a pond.  It is slimy junk though that'll plug your fuel system; there's treatment for it, but there's treatment for gas too.   Older diesels are less vulnerable to this sludge though so that's a bonus for wanting an older diesel.

bio diesel sounds fun, but the start up costs is big and like you say the truck will be mostly sitting?  Doesn't make since to invest 1000's of dollars into a nasty system that could burn down your garage.  (friend burned down their barn making bio diesel) It really should have it's own building away from anything else.  Sourcing oil and grease is a problem too.

If you get a camper the diesel will be nice, eating up freeway miles with a diesel pushing all that wind is where the diesel shines.

for anything else a 3/4 gasser would more than suffice and 1/2 would do for 99% of it.  There's even lighter popup campers that do well on a 1/2 ton and you'll get further back in the woods than with a solid top heavy camper hitting trees everywhere.   A micro camper would be very nice too for just 2 people wanting to camp way back.  Tow it back there and drop it then you got a good wheeler too. 

full size diesels suck in the woods I'm telling ya,  I've been putting up with a 3/4 diesel for way too long it's obnoxious driving around on rough roads with it.  I hate it, the thing wants to jackhammer it's self to death.    I park mine any time I can and hop in a friends Toyota or an F-150 and go "ahhh" that's so much better.   

 
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: lamrith on May 03, 2015, 07:12:41 PM
KF I really appreciate the feedback and full run-down.  It helps quite a bit and you may have changed my mind.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 03, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Older mechanical injected diesel trucks can be run on 80/20 used motor oil and gasoline filtered. Low start up cost and if you run a centrifuge like the http://www.simplecentrifuge.com/ it has less particulate than most Diesel from the pump. there are some issues but there are not as bad as bio diesel. Ive been on the hunt for a mechanical D 4x4 for quite some time but they all seem just outside of my reach... For a play toy...
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: huntnphool on May 03, 2015, 09:00:27 PM
Just remember 97% of the ford trucks sold are still on the road....The other 3% made it home!
Cummins is the way to go. Yes Dodge bodys don't last as long as the Ferd, but 400,000 miles on a Cummins is not uncommon. You'll do a couple of rebuild to do that with a powerjoke. The Duramax, well it's a duramax.

pretty sure 200k miles rebuilds are not a common ford thing.

They arent, even the 6.0's when properly upgraded will last a very long time. I'm working on a 1999 7.3 right know (needs injectors) that has 330k on it. It's a service truck and I know it's history the only repair it's ever had done previously was a torque converter replacement. I checked the compression In all 8 holes and they're still all at the high Ford spec, cut the oil filter open not a single piece of metal in it. Injectors, glow plugs and proper service intervalls it'll be good for another 100k plus, easilly.

 Time for me to do injectors as well, 400k+ out of the stock isn't too bad I'd say!




Completely agree with Phools statement. Don't matter what brand. So here comes the ribbing on the ford diesal. :chuckle:    Do you carry a couple boxes or so of those glow plug thingies under the seat for weekly replacement? :chuckle:

 Changed my original factory plugs this past hunting season, they also had 400k+ on them. :dunno:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on May 03, 2015, 11:01:06 PM
Toying with getting a Diesel pickup myself now.  We need something for dump and landscaping runs and I want something to take and thrash in woods/desert for hunting and shooting.

Based on our budget we are looking older rigs than th OP, but figured keep the Diesel discussion in one place?

I saw a few Ford and Chevy in my price range and was curious how the drivetrains compare.  Anything to watch out for with these?
1988-92 Ford 7.3L
1992 Chevy Cheyenne (no engine displacement listed, just diesel)

Older naturally aspirated diesels have no power. I think if you drove one you could talk yourself out of it real fast. You really need a turbo'd version if you want to enjoy the kind of power current diesel owners are accustomed to. I could see one being a great bio fuel machine but when it comes to hauling heavy up a steep grade, turbo'd is the only way to go.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: WAPatriot on May 04, 2015, 09:23:13 AM
Dodge 1996-1998 2500 and 3500 with the 12 valve engine and machanical fuel pump best non commercial engine ever made imho
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: baker5150 on May 04, 2015, 10:04:23 AM
Dodge 1996-1998 2500 and 3500 with the 12 valve engine and machanical fuel pump best non commercial engine ever made imho

They should have come with a free pair of ear plugs   :chuckle:
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 04, 2015, 11:15:08 AM
The 24 valve unfortuantly has just enough eletronics  to goof up a perfect system. I owned 2 and got rid of them due to the 5th gear strippin goff the tranny from pulling heavy loads. 12 valve with a 6 speed stick... that would be awesome... More likely i will find a mechanical 7.3 extra cab or crew cab with a stick. with the upgraded clutch those are pretty sweet too. I think they are also easier to find that the Cummins 12 valve 4x4 trucks.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on May 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
Dodge 1996-1998 2500 and 3500 with the 12 valve engine and machanical fuel pump best non commercial engine ever made imho

They should have come with a free pair of ear plugs   :chuckle:

12 valves are still quieter than the vp44 24's and the older VE's are's quieter than the P pump 12 valve trucks. No diesel pickup exhaust sounds better than a big ol straight sewer pipe on a 89-2002 Cummins though  :chuckle: 
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: KFhunter on May 04, 2015, 11:46:37 AM
I ought to yank out my auto trans and convert to a 6 speed.

I've got so many upgrades done to the truck it's ridiculous. 

1995 47RH 3/4 4x4 xcab  -  be slick to stick in a 6sp G56
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: baker5150 on May 05, 2015, 07:11:46 AM
I ought to yank out my auto trans and convert to a 6 speed.

I've got so many upgrades done to the truck it's ridiculous. 

1995 47RH 3/4 4x4 xcab  -  be slick to stick in a 6sp G56

You can bullet proof an auto to handle whatever you need it to. www.firepunk.com  make some bombproof trannys that can pull sleds all day long with more power than we could ever imagine.
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: Special T on May 05, 2015, 12:33:14 PM
You can smoke a LOT of clutches for the price of an auto rebuild...
Title: Re: School me on diesel trucks.
Post by: DRobnsn on May 05, 2015, 01:26:27 PM
You can smoke a LOT of clutches for the price of an auto rebuild...

Yep.

I never cared for the gear spacing with the Cummins 4speed auto. Mine was either screaming in 3rd to keep egt's down or lugging in 4th with egts going through the roof.
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