Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: Elkpiss on January 05, 2009, 09:02:06 AM
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I was hunting with my buddy and his kid on a special cow tag in the Boisfort Valley, and i about puked when i seen the first heard! We seen a heard of 40 head and every one of those critters were limping and had Hoof Rot!! It was nasty, they were dragging the legs leaving a blood trail from it! Every heard we seen dam near was limping with it. We talked to a game warden and he said they cant really do anything for it, they said a penicilin shot helps but they dont have the funding. It could wipe them out!! I heard its south west already to the willipa hills!! It could be the plague for these critters!!! i
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Is hoof rot really caused from the chemicals that tree farms spray on their trees. I don't really know much about it, but I didn't notice any of these signs when hunting the margeret this year.
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Here is a quote from the WDFW website:
Hoof Rot: District Biologist Miller, Biologist Prince, Officer Martin, Officer Holden, WDFW veterinarian, and WDFW veterinary assistant toured the Boistfort Valley in preparation for the upcoming elk hoof rot study. Over multiple years, landowners in the area and Officer Martin have observed many limping elk in the valley. An agency study of the causes and type of hoof rot affecting these elk will begin in January of 2009. This study will involve the collection of infected elk as well as a control group of uninfected animals. During the tour, staff identified potential collection sites and talked to local landowners about what they have observed in the local elk herds. The wildlife program would like to thank Officer Martin for all of his assistance and knowledge with this project
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/regions/reg5/reg5wild.htm
Some more discussion here: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,14946.0.html
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There was a herd in downtown Pe Ell a few days ago. Eighteen out of 20 had hoof rot. A bull came down off the hill into our fields during the snow and he too had it. They all have it. This may sound outrageous, but the way things look around here there won't be an elk left in the Willapa Hills in 5 years time. Maybe less.
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From what i saw i wouldnt eat it, they looked mutated! If you eat it you might be walking with a limp next year! lol, I will tell you this though if your a searious elk hunter in the area you should be worried cause it for real and it is a searious and scary thing that these critters are going through and you just frown when you see it first hand!!! If the Game Depatment dont have the funding to help stop it, it would be cool to see the Elk Federation get involved!!!
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Is hoof rot really caused from the chemicals that tree farms spray on their trees. I don't really know much about it, but I didn't notice any of these signs when hunting the margeret this year.
it seems to be a lower elevation thing. lot :'(s of them on the westside of i-5. but not so many on the eastside. we find several dead ones each spring here near castlerock.i shot a 4pt. bull this yr. just starting to get it. he was only 3 yr old at the most... :'(
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Just my oberservations from working out in that area alot. It seems to be worse with the elk that spend alot of time down in the fields. The elk up out of the valley do not seem to have it as much although fish and game says they will probably all get it eventually. Especially in times like now when deep snow has the higher elevation elk pushed down lower in the valley. Overall it is very bad situation and sad to see the ones that can hardly go.
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Kinda weird it's so bad in the Boistfort Valley and surrounding areas. I wonder if the flooding last year has anything to do with it? :dunno: Does anybody know how long this has been a serious problem? First time I ever heard of hoof rot was a couple months ago.
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WDFW had an article on their website from 2006 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/regions/reg5/2006/feb2106.htm)about it in SW WA.
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Its already all over the willapa hills. most of the elk on the south side of hwy 6 are limping everywere. odd though all the bulls i seen killed on the north side didnt have it this year. i dont think its spread all the way to the coast .most of the elk close to Raymond seem to be ok but more east of Frances.
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Looks like it is time to seriously consider hunting out of state next year. :bash:
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They don't have the funding? Their going to have less funds if they don't do something about it. :rolleyes:
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Yeah the herd that BrushChimp mentions was in my yard for a couple of weeks. 18 out of 21 have hoof rot (even some of the calfs). Blood trail the whole way through my yard. I don't know what we are going to do as far as hunting. ALOT of the elk up in the hills have it as well, which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with the fields.
I say get rid of them and plant Rocky Mountain elk. Just kidding, I wish there was a solution though.
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Maybe some of the farmers could let hunters willing to help, hunt there farms.
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Its getting bad...it seemed like most of the elk shot in the area this year were more of mercy kills then anything. a couple had the whole hoof gone. Its gonna be slow going the next few years.
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They don't have the funding? Their going to have less funds if they don't do something about it. :rolleyes:
:yeah: For sure. Less people hunting=less revenue
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The GW said the only thing that really helps in a shot of penicilin, and he said they dont have the funding to dart every elk with penicilin! Sounded like they dont even know whats really going on with it, The GW said they are just letting it going to run its course!! It is such a nitemere and not being to do anything about it!! Im mean *censored* if they can put a man on the moon they should be able to figure it out you would think!!
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cousin got one dec 07. ive seen and heard of a lot more. i dont understand how they dont know whats causing it. it really sucks
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They know its a Bacteria, and their is 40 different types of it, sounds like that's all they know! The Biologist are studying it and trying to figure it out! Its Highly, Highly contagious!
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WDFW had an article on their website from 2006 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/regions/reg5/2006/feb2106.htm)about it in SW WA.
I have been researching this problem. I found a buried archive mention dating back to 2001.
For those who aren't into farming and livestock. a quick explanation of hoof rot.
Hoof rot is usually caused by bacteria found in the soil. Particularly in wet, muddy areas with heaving stock loads. In sheep and cattle certain breeds are genetically more or less inclined to get hoof rot. It is almost ALWAYS a management issue on farms, meaning too high of stocking rates, poor waste management, not enough attention to hoof care, and lack of quick isolation of infected individuals.
WDFW should have done their study in 2006 when confirmed hoof rot was found, waiting until now to even study it means more herds will be affected and it is spreading, rapidly. I've written several people about this issue and have never received a response. >:( Treating this will be a nightmare, I'd love to know how they plan to do it..... and on a side note if I farmed in that area I'd be pissed, really pissed, that they have done nothing.
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What is interesting is that farmer's animals don't seemed to be affected by this "invasion" of hoof rot, nor do any deer. Seems to very elk specific.
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Seen 5 cows up in the north river today, one was just dragging her front leg, was within 100 ft. of em it looked really swelled up with a toe that was really long.
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So how hard woul dit be to put together something where we support it?
I have a guy i work with that belongs to the wenatchee valley sportsman club and he was talking like they support wildlife porjects. Why do we not have something like that in SW WA???
Can we get the RMEF involved? I will volunteer time.
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Has anybody contacted the RMEF? What about asking the news to do a piece on it. I think the only way to get anything done is to get it out there so more people know about it.
O does anybody have any pics of these herds limping around? I hear about it way to often just haven't seen that many pics :dunno:
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Kinda weird it's so bad in the Boistfort Valley and surrounding areas. I wonder if the flooding last year has anything to do with it? :dunno: Does anybody know how long this has been a serious problem? First time I ever heard of hoof rot was a couple months ago.
we been seeing it for ten yrs. at least. and if it dies in you're yard the fish and games says its your'e elk and you're problem.
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I wonder if this is one of the issues that WDFW has been withholding information from the Legislature? Seemed to be the case with other issues regarding the lack of feed in Margaret, Loowit, and Toutle over the last few years. They admitted to falsified counts of winterkill to certain member of the legislature and ultimately started feeding the animals during the winter after intense public & media pressure. I think RMEF and getting some of the local media to chime in on the subject would be the best way to get the public at large wound up about the issue. I believe that hoof rot probably has advanced to a detrimental level and needs some public exposure to get anything to happen.
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What is interesting is that farmer's animals don't seemed to be affected by this "invasion" of hoof rot, nor do any deer. Seems to very elk specific.
Thats good to know. I did read that there is a population of I believe whitetails on the oregon side of the river that have hoofrot, and when I have some free time I am going to dig into that a little bit more.
So if it isn't affecting the domestic stock I'd start to theorize that it is a more species specific cause, could be genetic as well.... at the rate the state is looking into it I might be able to get my degree and study it my damn self LOL :chuckle: :chuckle: whats another 10 years :P
I think contacting RMEF might be a good avenue and I might see if I can find someone there to send my letter off to.
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Everyones going to bitch to this response but it sounds like it is a natural thing that should probably run its course. Maybe the east side of the Willapa Hills is overstocked with all the high amounts of feed in the newer logging, if the hoof rot doesn't thin the population, the 'dark years' of the reprod will. Just like the starving elk in the Margaret area. The Carrying Capacity of an area tends to manage animal populations far more efficiently than a bunch of hunters, farmers and dumb *censored* game managers.
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It's not just the east side of the Willapa Hills. It's the entire Willapa Hills and some east of I-5. Hoof rot does not need to "thin the population." The population is thin enough. 10 years ago you could take a drive along Highway 6 and see hundreds of elk in just 15 miles in the winter. Now you're lucky to see 50. The 'dark years' of reprod? Those 'dark years' of reprod are started by Weyerhaeuser spraying all their clear cuts to kill off the vegetation. If anything, I think they should slow that forest management prescription down.
We've probably only seen hoof rot out here for 5 years tops and not in herd decimating quantities except for the last couple.
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The dark years of reprod that I meant is when a plantation hits about 15 years old and most of the feed is shaded out. Spraying has nothing to do with it. Yes, many newly logged units are site prepped to kill competing vegetation in the first growing season but in a couple years it all comes back and there is a lot of feed for animals for another 12 years. Once that reprod gets dark, the feed diminishes in the area, and is that way for another 15-25 years depending on its being fir or hemlock, pre commercially thinned, commercially thinned etc. There is no way that you can blame this on the timber industry, let alone one company. If anything, the timber companies of western washington are the only major reason we have the high elk numbers that we do. Elk need open areas with large amounts of high quality browse and they get that primarily from young plantations. Take a good look at the peninsula...all the old timers talk about the heyday of hunting elk when the Forest Circus was balls to the wall with their logging. Then the spotted owl came in, the logging stopped, the reprod grew up and shaded the feed and the elk hunting is terrible in comparison. Without young, open stands you simply don't have the feed to support these high numbers of elk. Ten years ago you could drive highway six and see more elk than you do now, that was because there were more young, open plantations right along the highway, now they are in the dark years of reprod. Now that most of the harvest has moved further 'up' in the watersheds you see more elk further from the highway, and the populations in those areas are starting to expand, it will be that way until the reprod begins to shade the feed, and the population moves out, and/or declines. I bet the 50 or so elk you see now are the ones who spend most of their lives in a small home range that is basically agricultural land along the valley, no wonder they are getting hoof rot.
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Well stated Goodwrench, there are alot of misconceptions out there regarding vegetation management practiced by timber companies and it's effect on elk. Those harvested areas that are sprayed during the first year or two after tree seedlings are planted quickly revegetate and often heavy to grasses and forbs which elk prefer until canopy closure around year 15 or so. If all westside timberlands were managed or should I say not managed like our federal forests, elk hunting opportunities would be poor at best.
I guess I am a little off the hoof rot topic, although I did see 6 legal bulls yesterday (all in 1 or 2 year old clearcuts) in the Ryderwood area two of which were limping noticeably.
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The signs of sickness to elk and deer in our state all point to Disease, one the WDFW does not talk about called Necrotic Stomatitis, also called Fusobacterium necrophorum, it produces, hoof rot, calf diphtheria, oral cavity infections and can affect almost any body organ or joint. It is caused from animals being in poor health. Most of Washington elk are in poor health due to poor winter and summer habitat combined with over population. The disease stays with the animals all year, they never get well. The cure is Penacilen/Triamenic, or by increasing dietary protein levels to increase body condition. It was first discovered in Washington State, in Roosevelt elk, in the Olympic Peninsula in 1945. At that time they concluded that losses to this disease resulted both directly and indirectly from overpopulation and poor habitat. I urge you all to google Necrotic Stomatitis and learn for your self the symptoms and relate it to the elk dying in your area. We need to urge the WDFW spend some money to conduct a detailed study on elk an deer, before they are gone.
