Post by: hogslayer on May 15, 2015, 05:08:48 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 15, 2015, 05:11:09 PM
Post by: grundy53 on May 15, 2015, 05:12:40 PM
Post by: rasbo on May 15, 2015, 05:13:12 PM
Post by: seth30 on May 15, 2015, 05:40:59 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on May 15, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
But I always have one. Most think of self defense but there other reasons to carry a handgun.
Many years ago I was deer hunting steep terrains . I spotted some deer belw and moved across a rock face covered in snow.
I had rain pants on. Well I slipped and down the face towards the 10ft drop of.
My rifle went flying.
I hit the snow chute and ripped down it at Mach speed. Slamming into a tree across the chute.
My hands were cut up from the sharpe talus and I was pined under the tree.
A rock I had knocked loose in the fall was bouncing down the chute towards me.
I managed to wiggle to the side and let it go by.
The only thing I had was my handgun strapped in the holster on my hip.
I fired three shots and my partner was able to locate me and help me off the mountain.
Carry a handgun. It's worth the weight.
Post by: MLBowhunting on May 15, 2015, 05:51:44 PM
Post by: TommyH on May 15, 2015, 06:16:39 PM
Post by: JJB11B on May 15, 2015, 06:45:56 PM
Post by: longwalker on May 15, 2015, 06:48:08 PM
Post by: BABackcountryBwhntr on May 15, 2015, 06:54:25 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 15, 2015, 06:59:01 PM
Many people bow hunted for many years without handguns. With that said I always have mine now that it is legal.
We hunted for decades with no pistol and avoided any trouble. Never felt as though I was ever in any self protection danger while bowhunting.
But - I believe things have changed. We now have wolves again, we don't have room or money to keep people in jail that should be in jail, Facebook has brought animal rights whackadoodles together and some post bounties on hunters head, it seems as though we have more hot head pho-military morons, and our fast food/entitlement society has brought a whole new level of greed combined with a whole new disregard for self control.
Today I still feel safer in the woods without a gun than I do going to the grocery store. And statically I believe we are. But, why not carry if you got it? My luck is 80% bad and 15% indifferent so I'm bound to find trouble at some point in life :chuckle: When that happens Id rather go down with a fight!
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 15, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Post by: mfswallace on May 15, 2015, 07:25:47 PM
I have never used my handgun for defense,but when calling bears out of season for practice and a rush, I have pulled it while yelling at a bear to back off,that being said the ol better to have it rule I always standby
No indictment on this "practice" but if you had to use it and killed a bear I wonder if it is considered poaching :dunno:
Any leo's care to shed some light to this kind of a scenario?
Post by: rasbo on May 15, 2015, 07:31:11 PM
I cant do it anymore but Im sure I would be in trouble if I did shoot one toying with them,I have found that growling at them is bad juju lol I might add if I did get in trouble in that situation I would expect a ticket......I have never used my handgun for defense,but when calling bears out of season for practice and a rush, I have pulled it while yelling at a bear to back off,that being said the ol better to have it rule I always standby
No indictment on this "practice" but if you had to use it and killed a bear I wonder if it is considered poaching :dunno:
Any leo's care to shed some light to this kind of a scenario?
Post by: PlateauNDN on May 15, 2015, 07:37:21 PM
Post by: rtspring on May 15, 2015, 07:44:28 PM
Post by: hrd2fnd on May 15, 2015, 07:45:51 PM
Quote
Today I still feel safer in the woods without a gun than I do going to the grocery store. And statically I believe we are. But, why not carry if you got it? My luck is 80% bad and 15% indifferent so I'm bound to find trouble at some point in life :chuckle: When that happens Id rather go down with a fight!:yeah:
Post by: mfswallace on May 15, 2015, 07:46:08 PM
I cant do it anymore but Im sure I would be in trouble if I did shoot one toying with them,I have found that growling at them is bad juju lol I might add if I did get in trouble in that situation I would expect a ticket......I have never used my handgun for defense,but when calling bears out of season for practice and a rush, I have pulled it while yelling at a bear to back off,that being said the ol better to have it rule I always standby
No indictment on this "practice" but if you had to use it and killed a bear I wonder if it is considered poaching :dunno:
Any leo's care to shed some light to this kind of a scenario?
I'm curious because I've gotten to close to a big sow and her cubs a while taking pictures and at 20rds :yike: I pulled my side arm while slowly backing away and telling her I was just leaving. Not exactly the same thing but I know it was my fault and wondered if I would get in trouble if I had to pull the trigger. :o
Post by: dscubame on May 15, 2015, 07:53:51 PM
Post by: Mudman on May 15, 2015, 08:03:18 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 15, 2015, 08:07:50 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 15, 2015, 08:20:48 PM
If I have to pull a gun I'm not doing it to scare off an attacker man or animal. If I pull it I intend to use it. At that point I don't see where worrying about wounding is part of the discussion. At that point it's life or death, both his and mine!
Post by: Bob33 on May 15, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
Post by: seth30 on May 15, 2015, 08:38:03 PM
Sets what happened?I was bear hunting out in GMU 437 when a guy got in my bubble, and kept asking me over and over if I worked for the timber company. I told him no repeatably and that I was bear hunting. After he closed the gap from 12 inches to where I could feel his breath on my face I put my hand on the 357. He backed off and walked back the way he came from. I was shaking from the incident and still don't know what the deal was to this day. I assume a eco terroist or pot grower :dunno:
Post by: Mudman on May 15, 2015, 08:38:59 PM
I don't know Mudman. When a neighbor worked at Olympic NP he had to use bear spray on a goat. The goat killed a guy a couple weeks later.Ya I can see that being an issue. Goats most stubborn animal. I remember that on the news, if its the same one? Rad was that bear or pepper spray? Any Leo will tell ya tweakers often dont seem bothered and keep tweaking! Crazy. Im not against it by no means. I do think if you are carrying it should be 357 or larger. Ive seen what a 45 does to a bear with 2 poor shots at 40ft and I wasnt impressed. Didnt even brake bone? Ammo? I was helping him recover wounded bear. The last bullet which also was a poor shot, 4th hit, resulted in a 30ft charge.
Post by: Jarhead Chase on May 15, 2015, 08:48:49 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 15, 2015, 09:33:43 PM
My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
Outside the NE I'm not much concerned with four legged threats. And even up there I'm probably safer without a gun in the woods than I am driving there in my car.
I do not see 40' as a threat situation with animals. Unless a person has a gun I don't really see 40' as a threat with human encounters either. At that point they are a potential threat worthy of being prepared, but not yet a self defense engagement range. In Canada we get bluff charged by black bear on a semi regular basis. More fun than terrifying. Each time has been getting between a boar and a cub he was planning on eating. He didn't want to attack us anymore than I wanted to shoot him.
My self defense history is all wounded bear related:
3 yards = double tap under chin with .45 - Oregon
Point blank = One shot to the head with .444 Marlin - Oregon
4-5 yards = One shot to the head with .45 - Washington
At under five yards I think I'll take my chances with a gun and leave the pepper spray for someone else.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 15, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
I remember reading this a while back. If I remember correctly (what are the chances of that :chuckle:), the survey picked every firearm bear encounter and every spray encounter. I think a bear spray usage encounter is straightforward enough--bear charges human, human sprays with actual bear spray (not human level pepper spray). For the firearms, it was stuff like a guy wounded a bear. Then went to the bushes to find said bear. Then the bear jumped out and got him before he could get a second shot. Or things like using a .223 or a 9 mm and having a bear encounter. Quite a few guys I knew in Alaska used .243 for their deer rifles and didn't carry a sidearm--Ketchikan area, I'm not sure I could've done that. Guess I'd like to see the .300 Win Mag and up comparison to bear spray.My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
Post by: Torrent50 on May 15, 2015, 10:37:35 PM
Post by: follow maggie on May 15, 2015, 10:45:53 PM
Post by: stevemiller on May 15, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
Post by: hogslayer on May 15, 2015, 11:12:50 PM
Post by: LeviD1 on May 15, 2015, 11:18:16 PM
My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
Sounds to me like those guys should have carried a bigger gun.. :chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on May 15, 2015, 11:51:17 PM
After hearing Radsav talk about those close encounters with bears, it makes me think in a situation like that i would really wish i had a gun. I still think that you would have a way higher chance needing to use it for people than animals.
In Canada we put ourselves in those situations. Exciting and maybe saves a cub or two. Great chance to kill a bear if any of them had been boars I wanted to waste a tag on.
The three close bear encounters where I shot the bear two of those were when guiding and forcing the issue in hopes of recovering a clients bear after they made poor shots. Third was my own bear that I shot poorly and I forced the issue because I was afraid I'd lose him in the oncoming rain.
So really I have never found myself in a self defense situation that I had not put myself into intentionally. Every one of those could have been avoided if I chose to play it safe. Even the wife's situation could have been avoided if she had been willing to ignore a bad family situation. Sure things happen and a person should be prepared for those, but I rarely ever worry about those much when in the wild.
On the other hand I trust very few two legged encounters. Ask D-Rock if he'd rather be in the woods without a gun or on a Max train in Portland :chuckle:
Post by: Bean Counter on May 16, 2015, 02:00:24 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 06:25:53 AM
Couple years ago I was walking up a mountain in southern Arizona for the summer archery deer hunt. I had it in case I ran into drug smugglers. Boy was I surprised when the face I saw on that steep climb was a mountain lion at about 10 yards :yike:That'll make ya mess your shorts won't it.
Post by: Stump on May 16, 2015, 07:45:10 AM
Post by: SGTDuffman on May 16, 2015, 09:46:25 AM
Post by: Smoke on May 16, 2015, 10:07:53 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 10:43:03 AM
always carry one... never needed it for defense/survival, but ya never know... that being said, when gun hunting and ya walk up on yer game and find it's not quite dead yet, a kill shot with the handgun is a lot easier then using yer rifle... btw... when hunting in snake country, first two rounds in the revolver are snake shot (have used those back east in the swamps)... if I need the regular bullets, just click the cylinder twice and ready to goIsn't that illegal? :dunno:
Post by: rasbo on May 16, 2015, 10:55:51 AM
if its a legal caliber and modern I would think its ok,bowhunting negative,not sure about muzzy,perhaps a blkpowder pistolalways carry one... never needed it for defense/survival, but ya never know... that being said, when gun hunting and ya walk up on yer game and find it's not quite dead yet, a kill shot with the handgun is a lot easier then using yer rifle... btw... when hunting in snake country, first two rounds in the revolver are snake shot (have used those back east in the swamps)... if I need the regular bullets, just click the cylinder twice and ready to goIsn't that illegal? :dunno:
Post by: Bean Counter on May 16, 2015, 11:23:46 AM
Couple years ago I was walking up a mountain in southern Arizona for the summer archery deer hunt. I had it in case I ran into drug smugglers. Boy was I surprised when the face I saw on that steep climb was a mountain lion at about 10 yards :yike:That'll make ya mess your shorts won't it.
Honestly I just sort of stood there frozen. The surprise kind of kept me in limbo--trigger happy as I normally fancy myself. I didn't see a mountain lion--I saw a face looking right at me. Its like when you walk up to someone and you're studying the pattern between their eyes and mouth to see if your recognize them. He was out of sight before I realized I shoulda been poppin' caps. Its one of those steep, nasty mountains that I had to go to my 'happy place' to climb up, which certainly didn't help my state of awareness.
He ran up to the top of the hill. I looked down and realized I was standing near his lunch--a buried deer that he either killed there or drug up hill and buried with grass. I do (and say) some brash things, but decided to head down the mountain after a few minutes of glassing.
Yeah I know... puss :chuckle:
Post by: Nice Racks on May 16, 2015, 11:41:59 AM
Post by: HunterStrait on May 16, 2015, 12:26:28 PM
Post by: christopheri on May 16, 2015, 01:31:02 PM
Post by: boneaddict on May 16, 2015, 01:44:45 PM
Post by: PolarBear on May 16, 2015, 01:59:50 PM
Post by: T Pearce on May 16, 2015, 02:06:55 PM
Modern firearm season, no. I feel the rifle is enough.
Post by: dreamunelk on May 16, 2015, 02:40:39 PM
I've never carried one while bowhunting (30 years). I figure that if a situation comes up and I can't launch an arrow fast enough then it was just my time to go. I just don't want the added gear to worry about or to mess with. Keep it simple and minimal.
In a close situation an arrow with a razor sharp broad can do a lot of damage real fast!
Post by: PolarBear on May 16, 2015, 02:44:47 PM
Post by: jeffro on May 16, 2015, 02:56:58 PM
why wouldn't I have it while hunting.
Hi cap 45 for suburbia,
4" .44 mag for wilderness.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 16, 2015, 03:24:53 PM
Post by: JJD on May 16, 2015, 04:47:29 PM
I have read that a human attacker, in even reasonable shape, can cover 20 feet faster than most can draw and effectively fire.
The number one thing in a fight is the will to survive. While you may not walk away unscathed, a handgun may scew the odds of surviving in your favor.
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 05:39:29 PM
You held out longer than I likely would have. :chuckle:Couple years ago I was walking up a mountain in southern Arizona for the summer archery deer hunt. I had it in case I ran into drug smugglers. Boy was I surprised when the face I saw on that steep climb was a mountain lion at about 10 yards :yike:That'll make ya mess your shorts won't it.
Honestly I just sort of stood there frozen. The surprise kind of kept me in limbo--trigger happy as I normally fancy myself. I didn't see a mountain lion--I saw a face looking right at me. Its like when you walk up to someone and you're studying the pattern between their eyes and mouth to see if your recognize them. He was out of sight before I realized I shoulda been poppin' caps. Its one of those steep, nasty mountains that I had to go to my 'happy place' to climb up, which certainly didn't help my state of awareness.
He ran up to the top of the hill. I looked down and realized I was standing near his lunch--a buried deer that he either killed there or drug up hill and buried with grass. I do (and say) some brash things, but decided to head down the mountain after a few minutes of glassing.
Yeah I know... puss :chuckle:
Post by: stevemiller on May 16, 2015, 05:58:23 PM
Most big critters can cover 10 yds faster than most guys can draw and effectively shoot. Probably double that if they see you first and have a head start.This is very true,Scenario time,Your pounced on by a big cat,your rolling around fighting it off best you can,You reach to your side and pull out your side arm you Put one in it, fights over,Now are you glad you had your side arm?Very hard to defend yourself in this case with a rifle at zero range. :tup:
I have read that a human attacker, in even reasonable shape, can cover 20 feet faster than most can draw and effectively fire.
The number one thing in a fight is the will to survive. While you may not walk away unscathed, a handgun may scew the odds of surviving in your favor.
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 06:06:14 PM
:tup: And that is exactly why I carry even during the modern season.Most big critters can cover 10 yds faster than most guys can draw and effectively shoot. Probably double that if they see you first and have a head start.This is very true,Scenario time,Your pounced on by a big cat,your rolling around fighting it off best you can,You reach to your side and pull out your side arm you Put one in it, fights over,Now are you glad you had your side arm?Very hard to defend yourself in this case with a rifle at zero range. :tup:
I have read that a human attacker, in even reasonable shape, can cover 20 feet faster than most can draw and effectively fire.
The number one thing in a fight is the will to survive. While you may not walk away unscathed, a handgun may scew the odds of surviving in your favor.
Post by: stevemiller on May 16, 2015, 06:08:10 PM
This is the main reason I carry as well,Whether Im hunting or just walking around with the kids.This and BIGFOOT that is.Ive heard that he fears handguns more than rifles. :tup::tup: And that is exactly why I carry even during the modern season.Most big critters can cover 10 yds faster than most guys can draw and effectively shoot. Probably double that if they see you first and have a head start.This is very true,Scenario time,Your pounced on by a big cat,your rolling around fighting it off best you can,You reach to your side and pull out your side arm you Put one in it, fights over,Now are you glad you had your side arm?Very hard to defend yourself in this case with a rifle at zero range. :tup:
I have read that a human attacker, in even reasonable shape, can cover 20 feet faster than most can draw and effectively fire.
The number one thing in a fight is the will to survive. While you may not walk away unscathed, a handgun may scew the odds of surviving in your favor.
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
Now that is information you just can't get anywhere. :tup: :chuckle:This is the main reason I carry as well,Whether Im hunting or just walking around with the kids.This and BIGFOOT that is.Ive heard that he fears handguns more than rifles. :tup::tup: And that is exactly why I carry even during the modern season.Most big critters can cover 10 yds faster than most guys can draw and effectively shoot. Probably double that if they see you first and have a head start.This is very true,Scenario time,Your pounced on by a big cat,your rolling around fighting it off best you can,You reach to your side and pull out your side arm you Put one in it, fights over,Now are you glad you had your side arm?Very hard to defend yourself in this case with a rifle at zero range. :tup:
I have read that a human attacker, in even reasonable shape, can cover 20 feet faster than most can draw and effectively fire.
The number one thing in a fight is the will to survive. While you may not walk away unscathed, a handgun may scew the odds of surviving in your favor.
Post by: stevemiller on May 16, 2015, 06:19:52 PM
BRIAN WILLIAMS: NBC LIVE
Post by: Smossy on May 16, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 16, 2015, 08:07:02 PM
Post by: Torrent50 on May 16, 2015, 09:09:54 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 17, 2015, 05:03:55 PM
Bear spray. Read quite a few articles about how effective bear mace is over firearms. Theres pros and cons to either side but when bear spray can blind you and nearly shut down your respitory system long enough to get away from the situation without the resulting consiquences of the law or me spending the next 5-10 years in prison. Ill take the lesser slightly more risky rought.
Just in case you're wondering, this wouldn't be considered an excused absence!
Post by: TheHunt on May 17, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
Post by: jeffro on May 17, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Bear spray. Read quite a few articles about how effective bear mace is over firearms. Theres pros and cons to either side but when bear spray can blind you and nearly shut down your respitory system long enough to get away from the situation without the resulting consiquences of the law or me spending the next 5-10 years in prison. Ill take the lesser slightly more risky rought.are you being serious, or an elitist bow hunter?
Post by: stevemiller on May 17, 2015, 05:50:07 PM
Bear spray. Read quite a few articles about how effective bear mace is over firearms. Theres pros and cons to either side but when bear spray can blind you and nearly shut down your respitory system long enough to get away from the situation without the resulting consiquences of the law or me spending the next 5-10 years in prison. Ill take the lesser slightly more risky rought.are you being serious, or an elitist bow hunter?
[/quote)
He is being serious,He is a great guy,a helpful guy and a great addition to this forum.He has his reasons for this post. :tup:
Post by: RadSav on May 17, 2015, 06:46:53 PM
We love Smoochy around here. Good kid :tup:
Post by: SGTDuffman on May 17, 2015, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: WRKG4GD on May 17, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Especially zombies.
Post by: Wea300mag on May 17, 2015, 07:39:57 PM
Post by: Goldeneye on May 17, 2015, 07:43:58 PM
Smossy...The Elitist Bowhunter! Now that's funny :chuckle: :chuckle:
We love Smoochy around here. Good kid :tup:
Wait a minute. Smoochy? Every nickname has a root of truth. How did he earn Smoochy?
Post by: ghosthunter on May 17, 2015, 07:59:27 PM
Smossy...The Elitist Bowhunter! Now that's funny :chuckle: :chuckle:
We love Smoochy around here. Good kid :tup:
Wait a minute. Smoochy? Every nickname has a root of truth. How did he earn Smoochy?
A better question is how did RADSAV know that. Kinky bow hunters?
Post by: jasnt on May 17, 2015, 08:02:57 PM
Post by: cryder on May 19, 2015, 09:41:54 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on May 19, 2015, 09:49:08 PM
Came back to my rig a few years back and someone was trying to break into it. Always nice to be prepared for the unexpected situation. One carry's one as they hope nothing will ever happen. Only takes one bad situation.
Post by: buglebrush on May 20, 2015, 10:01:51 AM
Post by: Mxracer532 on May 20, 2015, 11:06:28 AM
I remember reading this a while back. If I remember correctly (what are the chances of that :chuckle:), the survey picked every firearm bear encounter and every spray encounter. I think a bear spray usage encounter is straightforward enough--bear charges human, human sprays with actual bear spray (not human level pepper spray). For the firearms, it was stuff like a guy wounded a bear. Then went to the bushes to find said bear. Then the bear jumped out and got him before he could get a second shot. Or things like using a .223 or a 9 mm and having a bear encounter. Quite a few guys I knew in Alaska used .243 for their deer rifles and didn't carry a sidearm--Ketchikan area, I'm not sure I could've done that. Guess I'd like to see the .300 Win Mag and up comparison to bear spray.My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
I used a .243 on my Wenaha Spring bear last year. 95gn Berger put it down no problem.
Post by: Jonathan_S on May 20, 2015, 11:35:38 AM
I don't know Mudman. When a neighbor worked at Olympic NP he had to use bear spray on a goat. The goat killed a guy a couple weeks later.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Hiker-killed-by-mountain-goat-in-Olympic-Nat-l-887209.php
Post by: Mongo Hunter on May 20, 2015, 11:56:57 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on May 20, 2015, 12:37:20 PM
If I'm bowhunting I don't. I don't get nightmares of a bear/cougar/wolf attacking me. To me it's like being worried about being stuck by lightning. I've hunted black bear in alaska with only my bow (much to my brother freaking out) but I did pack and have a backup shooter when chasing browns with my bow.
Keep a cool head fellas! THAT is your best weapon.....and I'm fortunate to only really spend time in tweeker free areas. :chuckle:
Post by: Kittman on May 20, 2015, 12:52:50 PM
Post by: headshot5 on May 20, 2015, 01:29:11 PM
Is being a victim necessary? No.
Personally I pack a pistol if I'm not already packing a rifle. I carry because I've seen some crazy stuff in the woods.
Post by: CP on May 20, 2015, 01:32:47 PM
Post by: jasnt on May 20, 2015, 06:52:55 PM
killed my bear last year with my 243I remember reading this a while back. If I remember correctly (what are the chances of that :chuckle:), the survey picked every firearm bear encounter and every spray encounter. I think a bear spray usage encounter is straightforward enough--bear charges human, human sprays with actual bear spray (not human level pepper spray). For the firearms, it was stuff like a guy wounded a bear. Then went to the bushes to find said bear. Then the bear jumped out and got him before he could get a second shot. Or things like using a .223 or a 9 mm and having a bear encounter. Quite a few guys I knew in Alaska used .243 for their deer rifles and didn't carry a sidearm--Ketchikan area, I'm not sure I could've done that. Guess I'd like to see the .300 Win Mag and up comparison to bear spray.My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
I used a .243 on my Wenaha Spring bear last year. 95gn Berger put it down no problem.
Post by: Mudman on May 20, 2015, 06:58:02 PM
Ya, thats it, thanks. Man Moose and Goats are to be respected. A sidearm is always an option for sure but I feel the need is greater when dealing with people compared to our local animals. Sprays work for me yet things can change. I can say a black bear confrontation ends with an arrow just like a bullet. Alaska would be both gun and sprays! A Grizz and Cougar are what makes my hair stand up-If it was still on top of my head! :chuckle:I don't know Mudman. When a neighbor worked at Olympic NP he had to use bear spray on a goat. The goat killed a guy a couple weeks later.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Hiker-killed-by-mountain-goat-in-Olympic-Nat-l-887209.php
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 20, 2015, 07:03:03 PM
For black bears sure. I use .25 cal-100 gr for black bear. In brown bear territory if I didn't have a big rifle/shotgun, I'd at least have a big pistol.killed my bear last year with my 243I remember reading this a while back. If I remember correctly (what are the chances of that :chuckle:), the survey picked every firearm bear encounter and every spray encounter. I think a bear spray usage encounter is straightforward enough--bear charges human, human sprays with actual bear spray (not human level pepper spray). For the firearms, it was stuff like a guy wounded a bear. Then went to the bushes to find said bear. Then the bear jumped out and got him before he could get a second shot. Or things like using a .223 or a 9 mm and having a bear encounter. Quite a few guys I knew in Alaska used .243 for their deer rifles and didn't carry a sidearm--Ketchikan area, I'm not sure I could've done that. Guess I'd like to see the .300 Win Mag and up comparison to bear spray.My wife got to find out that bear spray has a reverse effect on whacked out drug addicts. Just seemed to make him more mad and determined. Sounds like the "...failure-miss-wound and angry more severe attacks are possible" narrative can be used for gun or bear spray. Although if you really have to save your life what the heck is wrong with death. Better his than yours!There are multiple instances of (usually drug crazed) humans being shot more than 20 times and surviving.
On bears, spray is statistically more likely to stop a charge than a firearm.
I used a .243 on my Wenaha Spring bear last year. 95gn Berger put it down no problem.
Post by: jasnt on May 20, 2015, 08:03:17 PM
Post by: JJB11B on May 21, 2015, 08:34:34 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 21, 2015, 09:02:33 PM
I have to laugh at a friend of mine. He told me as I was heading out after a bear one day, "A 7mm short mag will not kill a bear" I just scratched my head and left. sad thing is he tagged out on deer and bear and I ate tag soup. :'(
No gun can kill a bear if you never see one to shoot at. So I guess he was right! :chuckle:
Reminds me of the months leading up to killing my first bear. The local hunting store owner had my mother demanding I not hunt alone. He had convinced her I could not kill a bear with a bow and I'd surely end up dead if I tried. After killing my first bear, alone with a bow and no backup gun of any kind, he told her I was just lucky and found a small passive bear. He said the same thing on bear #2, #3, and #4. On bear #5 he told my mother that maybe I was just unique. To which, as my mother recalls, she responded with, "Oh he's unique alright!" To this day I'm not sure if she was standing up for me or telling him I'm not right in the head. :chuckle:
Post by: salmonchaser on May 21, 2015, 10:01:05 PM
Working my third career as a guide in Alaska and there I always carry. Best day we counted 22 grizzlys. I've pepper sprayed two, never shot one. Spray works instantaneously.
Post by: RadSav on May 21, 2015, 10:05:12 PM
Post by: GT on May 22, 2015, 08:22:46 AM
My Motto: You never know what evil lurks around the bend.
My Opinion: Carrying a sidearm is necessary when hunting.
Conventional Wisdom: Better to be safe than sorry.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on May 22, 2015, 09:50:22 AM
I have had one wildlife encounter where I was glad to be packing. I was working, not hunting, and a rutted up 2-3 year old bull moose got way to interested in me, alternating between threatening and courting. I was in a hardwood second growth stand, the biggest tree for 200 yards was probably 4" diameter - not too great for climbing, and impossible to run through. I had my back to the thicket on a log landing in the cut, .357 cocked and in hand aiming at his forehead. I was absolutely confident I could kill him, but feared the consequences on my wildlife career aspirations. I was going to kill him at six feet if need be, I wanted powder on his face! He stood at 10' for what felt like forever, grumbling, blowing snot and hooking his paddles toward me, then turned and ran off.
I do carry UDAP 10% capsaicin bear spray in grizzly country. If I could only carry one, I'd take the bear spray every time, just my personal opinion. For 2 and 4 legged attackers.
Post by: jeffro on May 22, 2015, 12:29:30 PM
Bear spray. Read quite a few articles about how effective bear mace is over firearms. Theres pros and cons to either side but when bear spray can blind you and nearly shut down your respitory system long enough to get away from the situation without the resulting consiquences of the law or me spending the next 5-10 years in prison. Ill take the lesser slightly more risky rought.are you being serious, or an elitist bow hunter?
Repost for edit:
I want to apologize if I hurt an ones feelings
As this was meant as a joke.
I understand the situation with Mr. Smossy, and truly apologize to him if he was offended.
Post by: h20hunter on May 22, 2015, 01:09:02 PM
Granted......Mr. Smossy is a complete bow snob.....DON'T EVEN begin to ask him about cameras! He has been known to tote around quite a bit of hardware on places like party boats while sneaking a sip of some agave juice from the missus canteen.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: swashington2128 on May 22, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Post by: sidehil on May 24, 2015, 07:34:05 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2015, 07:58:14 AM
I carried before it was legal after a cat that was eating a dead calf hissed at me from 30 feet and I was going to use my bow as a baseball bat. I had just enough time to nock one and it split. I carry a S&W Governor with home loaded 45 lc for archery and 410 while modern for deer. Its a hoot to use on grouse, the little red dot gets them every time:) Seen six cats now but never enough time to get a shot until it was in my face. My bro missed one last year at 30 yards walking right at him growling, its hard to fling a arrow when your the prey!yikes. I have also always carried, this year during my spring bear hunt I had a female bear stand up and start woofing at me. She was only about 60 or so yards away and didn't seem very happy that I had killed her mate. Sure I had my .300 win mag, but if she did charge, finding her in my scope with about 3 to 4 seconds to spare wasn't going to be a choice. If she did charge, I had already planned on dropping the rifle and pulling my .45. I just feel better having it on my side when out and about.
Post by: PA BEN on May 24, 2015, 08:21:11 AM
Post by: Smossy on May 24, 2015, 11:29:40 PM
Jeffro....good on you for your last post.Lmao. Its sad you know me so well.
Granted......Mr. Smossy is a complete bow snob.....DON'T EVEN begin to ask him about cameras! He has been known to tote around quite a bit of hardware on places like party boats while sneaking a sip of some agave juice from the missus canteen.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
No offense taken at all. Trust me, If I could carry a sidearm it would probably never leave my side; bowhunting or not.Bear spray. Read quite a few articles about how effective bear mace is over firearms. Theres pros and cons to either side but when bear spray can blind you and nearly shut down your respitory system long enough to get away from the situation without the resulting consiquences of the law or me spending the next 5-10 years in prison. Ill take the lesser slightly more risky rought.are you being serious, or an elitist bow hunter?
Repost for edit:
I want to apologize if I hurt an ones feelings
As this was meant as a joke.
I understand the situation with Mr. Smossy, and truly apologize to him if he was offended.
But as it stands now, Bear mace and a sharp knife are my best two friends. Plus my girl is with me when I'm hunting 98% of the time and she usually has a rifle, at the least a .Sig P220 with two mags. I'm not too concerned about her missing either.
Post by: AudiDat on June 09, 2015, 01:41:07 PM
It snuck up RIGHT behind them, his partner heard something creeping, and assumed it was an elk. he slowly drew & turned only to find a big cat coiled up just a couple of yards behind them. He let his arrow fly, was "fairly certain he hit it", the cat screamed at them, and stood fast. He screamed for my BIL to "Shoot that SOB!!!!". My brother drew his Glock and put a few rounds into it before it spun and ran one direction while the 2 hunters ran the other. All of this happened in a couple seconds and neither hunter had been so scared. They went back early the next morning to find a huge blood trail, but no cat. :dunno:
ETA: I've seen them at range, and I've seen tracks that were clearly following me before, but I've never seen one up close. I always almost always carried before, and I damn sure do now.
Post by: jasnt on June 09, 2015, 04:58:25 PM
Durning this hunt I was very glad to have it!
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,136550.msg1820561.html#msg1820561
Post by: AKBowman on June 11, 2015, 11:32:42 PM
I clapped really loud twice and he stood up on his back legs. I yelled at him and he lowered his head like he was trying to flatten to the ground then he took off straight down the hill over almost a sheer cliff. He took off so fast you could hear the short alpine brush whip. Those tales you hear about bears not being able to run down hill...they aren't true this bear basically sprinted straight down a cliff I wouldn't even come up let alone try to go down!
We saw the same sow with 3 older Cubs a number of times on the trip and they made me nervous as hell. We weren't packing side arms on that trip because of the weight. unless I'm just scouting and with someone i always pack.
Post by: huntnphool on June 12, 2015, 12:29:00 AM
Many people bow hunted for many years without handguns.
And many kids for many years used to have to stay out of the house during the day, without parent supervision, until the street lights came on.
And many people for many years used to leave their cars unlocked at night.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc. ;)