Post by: HntnFsh on May 17, 2015, 07:28:40 AM
She will probably be looking at about 2010 or newer. I'm not a fan of AWD. but haven't ruled them out either. Anything on these I should be aware of when looking for her? Would appreciate any input. Both good and bad. Any years, motors, combos etc. that really shine. Or that should be steered clear of? I know Subaru had some head gasket issues. Were these cars affected?
Thanks,
HntnFsh
Post by: bearpaw on May 17, 2015, 07:32:56 AM
Post by: jackelope on May 17, 2015, 08:02:00 AM
Post by: Miles on May 17, 2015, 08:22:08 AM
Post by: SniperDanWA on May 17, 2015, 09:20:44 AM
Post by: dewandgin on May 17, 2015, 11:14:08 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 17, 2015, 12:01:09 PM
We had to replace the head gaskets, and by the time I sold it I think they were on their way out.. AGAIN :bash:
Now I would avoid Subaru on principle. The horizontally transposed engine is reason for the leaking head gaskets. Its simply a matter of physics. picture an engine head on its side and all that oil, antifreeze, etc. flowing through the engine and wearing it out. The newer ones might have a better design specification, multilayered gaskets, and different torque specifications, but the physics of the proposition just bothers the heck out of me. :twocents:
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 17, 2015, 12:51:46 PM
Post by: coachcw on May 17, 2015, 01:20:01 PM
Post by: Bmcox86 on May 17, 2015, 01:40:03 PM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 17, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 17, 2015, 02:42:49 PM
Post by: Johnb317 on May 17, 2015, 03:06:37 PM
As for tree hugger car yeah, but was it wrong for me to throw the elk quarters and head into the back of my wife's Lexus RX?
Post by: PlateauNDN on May 17, 2015, 03:16:41 PM
Post by: rasbo on May 17, 2015, 03:18:41 PM
Some people appreciate Japanese quality and not having to replace a vehicle prior to 100,000 miles. I drive a Toyota with nearly 300,000 :IBCOOL:ok bean,my 2000 Silverado 6.o has 250,000 on it ,,,knock on wood :chuckle:
Post by: jeffro on May 17, 2015, 03:24:14 PM
Ain't no tree huggin happening round here.
Car is bad fast, good in the snow and starts every time.
Post by: jeffro on May 17, 2015, 03:40:19 PM
I've always had Subs for the wife,
They are just plain reliable.
The Turbo Legacy was for me cause I wanna go fast.
Maintainence is the key, oil changes and timing belts.......
Post by: CAMPMEAT on May 17, 2015, 04:25:17 PM
Post by: JJD on May 17, 2015, 04:42:41 PM
Changed a few clutches as she liked std trans. Last one was 1996 I believe, they quit importing the right hand drive models, emission issues as they were made for Australia, less stupid about emissions than guess. Her last two mail vehicles were Jeep, you talk about trash, each one should have come with a trailer to haul all the parts that fall off as you go down the road.
We have a 2011 Outback now, great milage and the AWD works great on icy roads over here. Heard about the gasket issues, but so far, so good.
Have not owned a Forrester, but have had great luck with Subaru regardless of which social group prefers them.
Post by: HntnFsh on May 17, 2015, 08:58:02 PM
Post by: Special T on May 17, 2015, 09:10:45 PM
Read away! best subaru forum there is
Post by: Bean Counter on May 17, 2015, 09:33:13 PM
I remember it going about a quart now that I think about it. Perhaps Jackelope or one of the other car pros can jump in but my limited understanding is that all vehicles will let some oil though the rings in order to allow them to completely lubricate Andover smoothly so some oil consumption will always be necessary.
Post by: Grit dog on May 18, 2015, 12:43:55 AM
Some people appreciate Japanese quality and not having to replace a vehicle prior to 100,000 miles. I drive a Toyota with nearly 300,000 :IBCOOL:
Head gaskets on a maint schedule is not what I'd call quality......
And I couldn't be seen in a leaflicker mobile! Lol
Sorry nothing pertinent to add to the ops question.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 18, 2015, 06:53:20 AM
Some people appreciate Japanese quality and not having to replace a vehicle prior to 100,000 miles. I drive a Toyota with nearly 300,000 :IBCOOL:
I have a 92 Chevy Blazer pushing 300,000 also. What is your point. ALL cars now days live a lot longer than they used to.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 07:17:49 AM
There is another issue for which the service department recommends a flush/refill of the transaxle and/or viscous coupling (can't recall which). It is for a sticking/surge/hard shift issue (happens most often accelerating out of a turn after having decelerated into it). They add some Subaru lube and it goes away for about 30-50K miles (we've had it done twice in 170K, and it is due again).
On the used market, I'd be leery of one that the prior owner has cheaped out on tire replacement, such as one where only one tire has been replaced due to a road hazard. All four should be within 1/2" circumference, which, as a rule of thumb, can be checked that the four are within 3/32" of tread depth of each other.
All in all, we are very satisfied. It is sure-footed in the snow and ice, and it is a decent compromise between cargo carrying capacity, economy, and ground clearance. We would probably get another, except that with more than one child, it starts feeling smallish.
Post by: dog on May 18, 2015, 07:22:20 AM
Post by: jackelope on May 18, 2015, 07:26:11 AM
I appreciate the feedback everybody. One thing my research is showing about the Forester. Is a lot of complaints about oil consumption. Like 1 to 2 quarts between changes. Saw somebody mention it on a 6 cyl. Any of you run into that with the 4 cyl?
A quart of oil used between oil changes shouldn't even raise an eyebrow. 2 quarts on a small engine like that might, but only slightly.
:twocents:
Post by: Red leaf 67 on May 18, 2015, 08:36:26 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on May 18, 2015, 10:16:54 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 10:18:52 AM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
Don't injure yourself falling off your high horse.
Post by: bearpaw on May 18, 2015, 10:56:21 AM
Post by: h20hunter on May 18, 2015, 11:01:41 AM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
Wow.....that is quite the statment.
Proud to say my driveway is topped off with quality made vehicles....one is an FJ, the other is a Lexus. Guess I'm part of the problem!
Post by: Red leaf 67 on May 18, 2015, 11:28:40 AM
Post by: stevemiller on May 18, 2015, 11:39:40 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 11:44:34 AM
Basically cars / trucks are for transportation & hauling things around, they get us from point A to point B. No matter what it is, they all frustrate us at one time or another. If I'm not mistaken, some imports are assembled in US factories.Yeah, the notion of Made in USA is kind of blurry these days with the globalization of manufacturing.
Also, aside from the fact that I primarily by on the used market, I am OK patronizing a country who has been a solid ally since WWII; we buy their cars; they buy our planes and computer chips. And if it sticks it to Government Motors or lib-cause-donating autoworkers unions, so much the better.
Post by: baker5150 on May 18, 2015, 12:03:19 PM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
[/quote
Subaru has a plant in Indian
and I think there is one in the south somewhere too La. or Ga. maybe :dunno:
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 12:23:40 PM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
Wow.....that is quite the statment.
Proud to say my driveway is topped off with quality made vehicles....one is an FJ, the other is a Lexus. Guess I'm part of the problem!
Acting in your self interest and making wise choices IS American and NOT the source of our problem. Screw the Big Three anyway. They decided in the 1970s that it was cheaper to target Japanese imports with tarrifs than plow retained earnings into R&D and their quality suffered for decades as a result. Then there was stupid S like cash for clunkers, drinking and smoking weed on lunch break, and deciding that it's cheaper to pay the lawsuits for exploding gas tanks than recall and repair them all. Screw you Detroit! You made the bed you're sleeping in.
:mor:
Our Subaru was built in Indiana and I believe the Toyota in Texas. Oddly enough my last Domestic had a sticker inside the engine compartment that read. "Made in South Korea." As another pointed out: the global supply chain is incredibly complex. Free trade works and markets are efficient. Do what works for you and let the crap makers go out of bitness. Doing the opposite is what's un American. :twocents:
Post by: Miles on May 18, 2015, 12:28:25 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 18, 2015, 12:31:06 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 12:37:42 PM
As another pointed out: the global supply chain is incredibly complex. Free trade works and markets are efficient. Do what works for you and let the crap makers go out of bitness. Doing the opposite is what's un American. :twocents:
For my recent repair of my "American" iron big block Ford, the cast aluminum part was labeled "Hecho in Mexico." I don't recall buying USA made parts being an option.
Post by: coachcw on May 18, 2015, 12:39:59 PM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.And you own a Westinghouse tv right ?
Post by: stevemiller on May 18, 2015, 12:46:19 PM
:yeah: Now that was funny.Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.And you own a Westinghouse tv right ?
Post by: WAPatriot on May 18, 2015, 01:18:45 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 01:20:21 PM
Maybe I am alone in this category but I love to romp on the gas of an American made truck. It's about getting Off the pavement punching your foot to floor hearing the engine roor. You can keep your Subaru s.
My 1990 Ford F-350, 460 CI, as American as they come, right? Made in Canada. That was the point.
ETA: Semi-related, that gubmint outfit that monitors vehicle recalls, deaths etc. announced today that the death toll for defective GM ignition switches has reached 104.
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 01:24:50 PM
Post by: WAPatriot on May 18, 2015, 01:25:04 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 18, 2015, 01:25:14 PM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
You are just going to comment about getting offroad without addressing this statement?
What questions has this answered? Would you care to share some assumptions you appear to have regarding "other members".
Please, explain your above statement. I'd love to hear it.
Post by: WAPatriot on May 18, 2015, 01:27:20 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 18, 2015, 01:28:43 PM
My wife drives an FJ cruiser. I drive a Lexus.
What assumptions do you wish to make? I'll tell you if you are right or wrong.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 01:30:48 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 01:31:04 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 02:51:13 PM
Might get some funny answers from you yahoos.
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 02:52:31 PM
Post by: stevemiller on May 18, 2015, 02:59:04 PM
Post by: Miles on May 18, 2015, 03:43:37 PM
Wapatriot just bought a couple. :chuckle:
Post by: HntnFsh on May 18, 2015, 05:04:59 PM
I'm pretty torn on whether I should try to steer the Mother in law away from a Subaru. They have at least 2 class action suits against them for excessive oil consumption. Then the head gasket issues from the earlier years. I know Subaru has done a lot of ring replacements and new short blocks for this issue. I know that people usually go to forums because they have problems with their vehicles. So it skews the way the vehicles are represented a bit.
I have a concern about her having to add oil to a motor on a regular basis. Ive been through a lot of vehicles over the years and I don't remember ever having 1 that used that much oil. Heck my 98 Silverado with the 5.7 might use a quart between changes if I drove it hard. But that was only once or twice in 70,000 miles.My 01 Avalon wouldn't go through any oil between changes and it had 228,000 miles on it. From what Ive been reading a quart every 1200 miles isn't uncommon. Then I wonder what its doing to the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors. Ive also read that about 5% of the cars with the 2.5 has these issues. Seems like pretty good odds that she wont have a problem. But also seems like 1 in 20 cars with a major issue is way to high a rate for this to happen.
Gonna have to do some more research, and thinking on this.
Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2015, 05:08:02 PM
Lot of good info and a lot of good banter on here! I enjoy it all and appreciate the relevant info.
I'm pretty torn on whether I should try to steer the Mother in law away from a Subaru. They have at least 2 class action suits against them for excessive oil consumption. Then the head gasket issues from the earlier years. I know Subaru has done a lot of ring replacements and new short blocks for this issue. I know that people usually go to forums because they have problems with their vehicles. So it skews the way the vehicles are represented a bit.
I have a concern about her having to add oil to a motor on a regular basis. Ive been through a lot of vehicles over the years and I don't remember ever having 1 that used that much oil. Heck my 98 Silverado with the 5.7 might use a quart between changes if I drove it hard. But that was only once or twice in 70,000 miles.My 01 Avalon wouldn't go through any oil between changes and it had 228,000 miles on it. From what Ive been reading a quart every 1200 miles isn't uncommon. Then I wonder what its doing to the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors. Ive also read that about 5% of the cars with the 2.5 has these issues. Seems like pretty good odds that she wont have a problem. But also seems like 1 in 20 cars with a major issue is way to high a rate for this to happen.
Gonna have to do some more research, and thinking on this.
Please post some info about the lawsuit. I am among those suckers who got fleeced for a head gasket >:(
Post by: Miles on May 18, 2015, 05:34:02 PM
Post by: 2labs on May 18, 2015, 05:47:09 PM
As taxpayers we've all bought a good old "made in the USA" automobile. It's the only invisible car that I own... GOVERNMENT BAILOUTS ANYONE?
Wapatriot just bought a couple. :chuckle:
Easy now! Ford didn't take a bailout!
Post by: HntnFsh on May 18, 2015, 05:55:54 PM
Lot of good info and a lot of good banter on here! I enjoy it all and appreciate the relevant info.
I'm pretty torn on whether I should try to steer the Mother in law away from a Subaru. They have at least 2 class action suits against them for excessive oil consumption. Then the head gasket issues from the earlier years. I know Subaru has done a lot of ring replacements and new short blocks for this issue. I know that people usually go to forums because they have problems with their vehicles. So it skews the way the vehicles are represented a bit.
I have a concern about her having to add oil to a motor on a regular basis. Ive been through a lot of vehicles over the years and I don't remember ever having 1 that used that much oil. Heck my 98 Silverado with the 5.7 might use a quart between changes if I drove it hard. But that was only once or twice in 70,000 miles.My 01 Avalon wouldn't go through any oil between changes and it had 228,000 miles on it. From what Ive been reading a quart every 1200 miles isn't uncommon. Then I wonder what its doing to the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors. Ive also read that about 5% of the cars with the 2.5 has these issues. Seems like pretty good odds that she wont have a problem. But also seems like 1 in 20 cars with a major issue is way to high a rate for this to happen.
Gonna have to do some more research, and thinking on this.
Please post some info about the lawsuit. I am among those suckers who got fleeced for a head gasket >:(
Sorry. Reread my post and it wasn't real clear. The lawsuits are for the oil consumption. Not the head gaskets. My brother in law got hit with the headgaskets too!
Post by: SGTDuffman on May 18, 2015, 08:06:38 PM
Another thing most people don't do, and I believe to be related to the "excessive oil consumption", is replace the crush washer on the drain plug when they change the oil. If you get under there and you don't have one, Jiffy Lube did your oil wrong. Just do it yourself. If you get the filter from the dealer, they'll give you the washer. Cheap insurance to keep from stripping out or overtightening the drain pain.
I change my oil every 5,000 miles and never have to add any.
Unrelated to the reliability of the car, I LOVE how Subaru's handle because of the AWD and the horizontally opposed boxer engine. Because the pistons don't run vertically, the engine sits lower in the bay, and because there are only 2 pistons in a row, and across from each other, the engines are also very short from front to rear. This, coupled with the engines height, allow the motor to sit low and far back, making it very near the cars center of gravity. That plus AWD makes them handle awesome. Depending on which transmission option you select, you also get a different power split through the differential on the AWD. I'd have to look again to confirm it, but I believe it is something like manual transmissions splits the power 50/50 front/rear, 4spd auto splits it 40/60 front rear, and 5spd auto splits it 60/40 front rear. Though I could have the 2 autos mixed up. Not sure if that's still what they do or not, but they used to do it something like that.
Post by: coachcw on May 18, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 18, 2015, 08:24:23 PM
Oil? At 170K I may lose about 1 quart between oil changes, probably mostly external.
Post by: Pnwrider on May 19, 2015, 12:41:49 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 19, 2015, 12:53:04 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 19, 2015, 07:05:53 AM
Basically cars / trucks are for transportation & hauling things around, they get us from point A to point B. No matter what it is, they all frustrate us at one time or another. If I'm not mistaken, some imports are assembled in US factories.
Here is another way to look at. It does not matter who made or what country it came from.....EVERYTHING man made will wear out sooner or later. My choice is simple. I want to keep my dollar in the United States of America. Before somebody tells me that Toyota is made in America....bottom line....the dollar does not stay here.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 19, 2015, 08:21:47 AM
:dunno:
Post by: Bean Counter on May 19, 2015, 08:29:44 AM
Post by: SGTDuffman on May 19, 2015, 04:50:25 PM
Here is another way to look at. It does not matter who made or what country it came from.....EVERYTHING man made will wear out sooner or later. My choice is simple. I want to keep my dollar in the United States of America. Before somebody tells me that Toyota is made in America....bottom line....the dollar does not stay here.
So would you rather your dollar go to American CEOs or American workers? If you prefer American workers, you're probably better served by purchasing a "Japanese" car, that is assembled in a US factory, vs an "American" car that is manufactured in Canada, Mexico, China, Europe, or Brazil. Since the bulk of the price you pay is associated with the labor of making the car, not the CEO's running the company into the ground, the best way to keep your dollars in America is to buy a car built in America. Unfortunately, that basically means purchasing a Japanese car these days. A few very specific models (like a Corvette) are the exception.
This stuff always comes up, and nobody ever bothers to research where a car is made. They just listen to the patriotic music in a Chevy commercial and buy one. Your options for "American" brands are GM or Ford. Chrysler, and their associated companies, are owned by Fiat, making them Italian. GM took a $700 billion bailout and announced the building of brand new state of the art plants in Brazil, Russia, India, and China within 6 months of cashing your check, then started shuttering factories in the US as a thank you to their loyal customers. They more recently tried to circumvent paying the victims, or the families of, the ignition recall they put off for a decade, by claiming they hold no responsibility because "old GM" had gone bankrupt, and "new GM" isn't liable for anything the old company did, like killing people, or didn't do, like a recall to prevent killing people. I'd just as soon spit in Rick Wagoner or Mary Barra's face than give either a single cent of my money.
If you're serious about keeping money in this country, please, please, please, look into where the model you're interested in is made, especially the final assembly and the large complex parts like the engine and transmission. And be careful about it. Manufacturers love to spin the truth. GM in particular loves to tout their percentage of "North American Made" parts, NOT the percentage of the vehicle made int he US, so other manufacturers followed suit, and beat them at their own game. North America is not the US. It is also Canada and Mexico. And example would be the current Camaro. It is sold as 65% North American made. Final assembly is in Canada, engines are either US or Mexico, and transmissions are US, Mexico, or Japan.
Ford 2.0L EcoBoost motors (Taurus, Escape, Edge, Fusion) are from Spain.
Chrysler 3.6L Pentastar motors are built in US or Mexico, the 5.7L Hemi is built only in Mexico.
Toyota Tundra was designed, engineered, and built in the USA, including engines and transmissions, and has a higher percentage of both "North American" and American parts than any of the previously listed items, including the Camaro.
On a list of the 30 cars with the highest percentages of "North American" parts, there isn't a single Chevy or Ford truck on the list, and only 7 vehicles total from GM and Ford combined. Which is one less than Honda has by itself.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on July 05, 2015, 07:47:16 PM
Don't get a Subaru buy an American made. This thread has all but answered some of the questions I have had about other members.
you want to crawl under my Dodge Ram and read all the bar code tags? :dunno:
Post by: shadowless_nite on July 07, 2015, 01:49:28 AM
As for the oil consumption it's the same thing across the board and don't get me wrong there are plenty of known toyota and Hondas that eat oil hence the tsb's they release concerning them and while this doesn't always bug me and usual doesn't do any major harm if proper oil level is maintained the real issue and damage comes to the unknowing consumer who never checks there oil but gets regular services every 5k or more. Imagine a car that takes 5qts of oil but consumes .75qts every 1000 miles. by the time its due for a oil change you lost more than 50% of your engine oil's cooling/lubricating capacity. How would you like to be told it's ok for these crucial engine systems to be only at 80% or 70% or less??? Your wouldn't be doing yourself a favor especially if the motor is prone to this condition already and I'm saying this in general and in no regard to a particular make/model
While at Honda/Acura I also had the opportunity to get to work on Subarus as well since they sold them. What I did notice is they require more maintenance procedures done for diffs, tranny, brake fluid etc more frequently which all are not cheap when at the stealership.... Maintenance cost seems to have been overlooked in all this discussion and should be considered anytime a new vehicle of any kind is purchased. For example cars with timing belts will require a belt service eventually and they are not cheap unless done yourself. Also you should note that most new cars are starting to use synthetic oil changes so expect oil change services to cost more than cars that use conventional oil.
And if I had to throw one piece of advise out there if the OPs relative if they decide on the subaru or any newer car that takes specific fluids/filters/procedures.... please please please do not take it to a incompetent quiklube type of place and I stress this extremely with newer cars and newer fluids that the lube newbs aren't familiar with!
Post by: Taco280AI on July 07, 2015, 02:07:10 AM
So I noticed an international truth to Subaru drivers a couple weeks ago. It isn't just NW Subaru drivers, it is even true here in Germany too. When the weather is less than ideal, the "all wheel drive, wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" drivers are the slowest people on the road ever and won't pull over to let everyone else by. Super slow, causing a backup, in conditions that aren't a big deal at all. Was a normal road, 60mph speed limit, going at 45mph just because of a little rain. Of course I passed them and had a clear road :IBCOOL:
[/endthreadjack]
Post by: huntinguy on July 07, 2015, 06:03:45 AM
I have her car serviced at a Japanese auto specialty shop. I asked them about oil consumption. It seems some Subarus use oil and some use less oil. My wife's car goes through about a half quart every 4k. The guy at the garage said one of their customers cars used that in about 2500 miles. Subaru has a pretty high oil consumption rate as accepted by the factory.
They also told me that on the north side of 200k the head gasket will fail. Their theory is that the oil passage is too close to ...(I believe he said) the coolant passage and nothing an owner can do will keep it from eventually failing. I do not believe the 6 has that problem.
I personally wouldn't worry about buying a late model Sub. I would just save some coin to replace the motor at some point. I understand that the drive train, if maintained will out last the body.
Post by: coachcw on July 07, 2015, 06:21:49 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 07, 2015, 06:59:26 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on July 07, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
They also told me that on the north side of 200k the head gasket will fail. Their theory is that the oil passage is too close to ...(I believe he said) the coolant passage and nothing an owner can do will keep it from eventually failing. I do not believe the 6 has that problem.
[/quote]
Yep, the 6 is known for headgasket issues too!