Post by: bassquatch on June 01, 2015, 10:16:59 PM
Just a general question but let's see if I can nail down a couple parameters?
1) Boat mainly used for recreational fishing (weekends).
2) You would have easy access to fresh water for flushing. Would be stored out of the water.
3) You are not mechanically inclined to repair either aside from general upkeep like plugs, flush, additives, etc...
4) Potential cost of repairs should there be an issue (i.e. is one easier/cheaper to work on than the other)
Again, this is just something I am curious about because I started looking at some boats and they are literally 50/50 outboard to inboard and it got me thinking about the potential differences. I have always run outboards but only in fresh water. Two of the boats where I work have inboards and also only see fresh water, however one of them has seemed a bit finicky.
Thanks for playing along :tup:
Post by: lokidog on June 01, 2015, 10:39:18 PM
From my observations out here, inboards can be a PITA to work on depending on the design (one neighbor had to lift the engine to change the oil filter :yike: ), inboards seem to be a lot heavier than outboards needing more power to move them, outdrives fail more than lower units, basic maintenance on an outboard is easy, access to the engine is easier also, inboards take up deck space. If you have a buddy that knows how to work on car engines, it might be cheaper than an outboard mechanic, those access issues are still tough though. It is easier to replace an outboard than an inboard, if needed, though maybe more expensive upfront.
More people with boats to 24 feet seem to have outboards around the island.
:twocents:
Post by: WoolyRunner on June 02, 2015, 02:12:19 AM
Post by: PolarBear on June 02, 2015, 02:18:13 AM
I would personally never own an inboard unless it was an air cooled deisel in a larger boat.:yeah:
From my observations out here, inboards can be a PITA to work on depending on the design (one neighbor had to lift the engine to change the oil filter :yike: ), inboards seem to be a lot heavier than outboards needing more power to move them, outdrives fail more than lower units, basic maintenance on an outboard is easy, access to the engine is easier also, inboards take up deck space. If you have a buddy that knows how to work on car engines, it might be cheaper than an outboard mechanic, those access issues are still tough though. It is easier to replace an outboard than an inboard, if needed, though maybe more expensive upfront.
More people with boats to 24 feet seem to have outboards around the island.
:twocents:
Same here! I have owned every type of motor configuration that you could think of in a boat and I will NEVER have another gas powered inboard, period! The best thing I ever did to a boat was dump my gas 351 Clevelands and switch to twin 416 Yanmar diesels. I went from burning 36 gallons per hour to 4-8! A big, heavy boat should have diesels and everything else, an outboard is far and above the best option! I have run outboards in saltwater for 40 years and as long as you give them a good flushing and scrub down, they will last for years. Heck, I am still running a 1978 Johnson 70hp on my work boat that has been under the salt several times and still is more reliable than any gas i/o that I have ever owned.
Post by: RadSav on June 02, 2015, 02:34:09 AM
Now if you are talking diesel in a boat large enough to have a level deck, prop shaft and rudders then that is a different story. Though I would never even remotely be interested in an air cooled diesel.
Post by: RadSav on June 02, 2015, 02:55:37 AM
My Yanmars were raw water cooled and were awesome!
:tup: IMO raw water is the only way to go with diesel.
I've run Volvo, Cat and Jimmy all raw intake. Never run a Yanmar. I've heard they are great when running twins! Guys I know that have run them say the harmonic wave is almost nonexistent. On a long day running for tuna that would sure be nice!!
Post by: PolarBear on June 02, 2015, 03:35:17 AM
Post by: RadSav on June 02, 2015, 04:25:41 AM
Yeah, I could get those thing to sing in tune together so easily. It was really nice on long trips. I was on a boat in Alaska with twin Detroits and after a couple of hours your head was pounding from the constant whaaah, whaaah, whaaah....
Spent most of my time on a 42' pop can running twin 3208 cats. Synchro went out the first couple of weeks (probably from working too dang hard) :o. Ran it for three years tuning by hand and ear. One heck of a boat, but I never did get used to that whaaah, whaah. The Volvo twins weren't too bad...and fast too!
I designed a 26' sport can about 20 some odd years ago. When I get rich I plan on building her. When I do she will have twin outboards and triple fuel tanks. I've been eyeballing the Yamaha, but who knows what the market will have by the time I can afford to build it.
Post by: MADMAX on June 02, 2015, 06:04:35 AM
just watch using ethanol gas
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 02, 2015, 06:28:08 AM
Post by: Gobble Doc on June 02, 2015, 12:25:49 PM
just watch using ethanol gas:yeah:
I make sure to use fresh non-ethanol gas.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on June 02, 2015, 12:39:58 PM
Post by: jeffro on June 02, 2015, 12:52:49 PM
My friend runs a '92 ish 2454? Alaska bulkhead with an inboard 5.7l.
Not only can I blow his door off out of the hole, top speed and deck space,
I get way better economy, easy decision on this sized boat.
Even if I went to the 28' version I'd still run outboards, but it would be twins.
Post by: bassquatch on June 02, 2015, 01:08:55 PM
I'm more familiar with outboards and that's the way I would go but it's just been bugging me why so many of the ones I look at have inboards? You would think if they were that much of a pain sales would suffer and manufacturers would make adjustments?
Thanks for the replies, pretty much solidified my thought process. For the record this was in regards to the Trophy models. I started out shopping for a new or used larger bass boat as that's what I spend 80% of my fishing time doing throughout the year. I'm just not sure how much we would use the Trophy? Especially with fisheries that can just close any time of year and our schedules only jive on Sunday's most the time?! Hmmm....more research, more pondering in order.
At least if we do pull the trigger on the Trophy I know which way to go on the motor :tup:
Post by: lokidog on June 02, 2015, 01:14:46 PM
just watch using ethanol gas:yeah:
I make sure to use fresh non-ethanol gas.
I've never had issues with the ethanol in either my older 2 strokes (other than eating a fuel hose or two) or the newer four strokes, but then gas only lasts a short time when you cover 3500 miles a year.... :chuckle:
Lots of inboards because they are cheaper than used outboards since fewer people want them. :rolleyes:
If you are going to use your boat for mostly small water fishing, I would not go with a trophy. On mine, the slow speed maneuverability sucks and unless you get the walk-around cuddy, access to the bow is a pain. My 20 footer also weighs about 3500# whereas an aluminum boat is a lot lighter and needs a lot less power to push around or tow behind the truck. Just some more food for thought.
Post by: Rick on June 02, 2015, 01:20:50 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on June 02, 2015, 01:32:26 PM
Post by: Stein on June 02, 2015, 02:01:17 PM
Outboard - potentially lighter and more deck space, if beach launching these are the way to go - more complex and expensive to repair, more sensitive to fuel
Both are about the same for saltwater, flush well after use - about the same level of effort.
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
Outboard sounds like your ticket because of the size and use you plan.
That said my Uncle had a 26 nordic tug that was a straight shaft with a 4 cyl Luger motor that burned a half gal deisel an our at 6 knots... What does that mean? on our all day crabbing trip from Skyline to lopez/decature we only burned $20 in fuel
Post by: Hunterman on June 02, 2015, 04:49:54 PM
In fact I'm having a new ( to me) 115 put on my 19 foot. I should get it out this week end
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Skillet on June 02, 2015, 05:02:40 PM
Given your parameters I would take an outboard. Every single time.
Post by: RadSav on June 02, 2015, 06:29:29 PM
That said my Uncle had a 26 nordic tug that was a straight shaft with a 4 cyl Luger motor that burned a half gal deisel an our at 6 knots... What does that mean? on our all day crabbing trip from Skyline to lopez/decature we only burned $20 in fuel
That would be nice. My Cats burned 16 gallons an hour at 16 knots. I could push it with 200 gallons or less to around 20-22 knots, but it made a horrible sucking sound that tore the wallet out of my pants :yike: When diesel jumped to $0.73 we figured fishing as a career was over :chuckle: :chuckle:
My john deere tractor has a yanmar 36 hp . I wouldnt want to relax fishing behind that stinky diesel. How are those big outboards smell and smokewise?
Ahhh, the sweet crisp smell of 3:30 A.M. choked to death by twin Volvos warming up. What's not to like about that :puke:
Post by: MarkyMark on June 02, 2015, 06:47:08 PM
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Post by: 2labs on June 02, 2015, 06:50:02 PM
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 08:11:41 PM
That said my Uncle had a 26 nordic tug that was a straight shaft with a 4 cyl Luger motor that burned a half gal deisel an our at 6 knots... What does that mean? on our all day crabbing trip from Skyline to lopez/decature we only burned $20 in fuel
That would be nice. My Cats burned 16 gallons an hour at 16 knots. I could push it with 200 gallons or less to around 20-22 knots, but it made a horrible sucking sound that tore the wallet out of my pants :yike: When diesel jumped to $0.73 we figured fishing as a career was over :chuckle: :chuckle:My john deere tractor has a yanmar 36 hp . I wouldnt want to relax fishing behind that stinky diesel. How are those big outboards smell and smokewise?
Ahhh, the sweet crisp smell of 3:30 A.M. choked to death by twin Volvos warming up. What's not to like about that :puke:
Thing ran like a sewing machine at 1200 rpm granted 6 knots isnt fast but he took me out any time I asked. Never would let me buy the fuel. All I had to do is deal with the stinky bait. I miss going out on that Boat and hanging with my Uncle. RIP Richard Knudson!
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 08:18:25 PM
Post by: lokidog on June 02, 2015, 10:00:48 PM
Post by: steeleywhopper on June 02, 2015, 10:28:34 PM
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 10:31:43 PM
The only times I have been on boats with some sort of motor failure are inboards. I would never own one and never even consider buying one.I/O s have 2x as many parts most direct drive rigs are longer than 26 ft
Post by: MADMAX on June 03, 2015, 06:08:21 AM
just watch using ethanol gas:yeah:
I make sure to use fresh non-ethanol gas.
I do now after 1800 bucks worth of motor repairs related to ethanol and I had used "stabil" marine formula also
didnt work
now seafoam and cenex gas
Post by: Skillet on June 03, 2015, 12:09:56 PM
The only times I have been on boats with some sort of motor failure are inboards. I would never own one and never even consider buying one.I/O s have 2x as many parts most direct drive rigs are longer than 26 ft
I think most folks mistakenly call I/O's "inboards".
A good diesel inboard installation in an appropriate vessel trumps all other power options, IMHO. In the case of the OP's scenario, though, an inboard wouldn't make good sense. A good I/O (think Volvo, Mercruiser Bravo) would end up being a maintenance and repair hassle at best - a poor I/O (think any OMC) would be a nightmare.
Probably a lot of boats with OMC drives on the bottom of Puget Sound with their drain plugs missing... and the owners feeling like they got out cheap. :chuckle:
Post by: Buzz2401 on June 03, 2015, 01:05:24 PM
Post by: magnanimous_j on June 03, 2015, 01:11:37 PM
The only times I have been on boats with some sort of motor failure are inboards. I would never own one and never even consider buying one.
Something tells me you never had an early 90's bayliner. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: lokidog on June 03, 2015, 09:58:12 PM
The only times I have been on boats with some sort of motor failure are inboards. I would never own one and never even consider buying one.
Something tells me you never had an early 90's bayliner. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yeah, but that was just thanks to those wonderful Force outboards.... :o
Post by: MarkyMark on June 03, 2015, 10:37:49 PM
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Post by: sled on June 03, 2015, 10:50:12 PM
My '95 Force 120 is as tough as they come. Always gets me home.had an 85 horse force. What a freaking nightmare! Glad yours has held up :tup:
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Post by: jeepster on June 03, 2015, 11:55:56 PM
My '95 Force 120 is as tough as they come. Always gets me home.had an 85 horse force. What a freaking nightmare! Glad yours has held up :tup:
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A reliable force :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike:
Either you got the one-in-10-million motor they made right, or you have a messed up sense of humor..... I wouldn't even use a force on a lake boat....
Anyway, outboard vs stern drive..... To each their own....
I find stern drives more stable, the bulk of the motor is centered more, and closer to water line..... The engines however, can be piles of sheet
Mercruiser in general are decent motors. What you get in performance, you lack in reliability. A well maintained Honda outboard will last and out perform a mercruiser inboard. Honda outboards in the 200+ range are Honda civis engines turned on end.
Personally, I'd take a Japanese outboard over a *censored*ized v6 or v8 variant.....
Honda or Yamaha, accept nothing less. Those are the most superior boat motors ever made, aside from diesels, but that's a whole nuther can of worms
Post by: lokidog on June 04, 2015, 08:44:48 AM
My '95 Force 120 is as tough as they come. Always gets me home.
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Mine did too, until it didn't.... :yike: When mine blew the third or fourth three or four hundred dollar power pack, I decided it was time to upgrade. I'm guessing that by now, the more lame ones (most) have been weeded out. At least there are lots of decent lower units available if needed. :chuckle: I have a friend that still uses his 120 out here on the sound, pretty much gets him from point A to point B quickly but he just about has to start it in gear to keep the rpms up and don't even think about trolling with it.
Post by: kisfish on June 04, 2015, 09:17:57 AM
Post by: PolarBear on June 04, 2015, 11:12:50 AM
Post by: Encore 280 on June 04, 2015, 11:45:50 AM
Post by: RadSav on June 04, 2015, 01:38:13 PM
If you're not worried about the price, E TEC all the way for me. I'd get rid of my wife before I would my E TEC and I really really love my wife. :-)
I take it your wife doe not visit this site :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on June 04, 2015, 02:17:09 PM
Encore 280 should write to Evinrude and see if they can run with a slogan like that and then get some royalties for the advertising idea. :twocents:
Post by: PolarBear on June 04, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
Post by: MarkyMark on June 04, 2015, 02:42:10 PM
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Post by: Encore 280 on June 04, 2015, 04:06:08 PM
If you're not worried about the price, E TEC all the way for me. I'd get rid of my wife before I would my E TEC and I really really love my wife. :-)
I take it your wife doe not visit this site :chuckle: :chuckle:
She feels the same way!!! She'd get rid of me before the E TEC!! She loves that motor!! I'm on my second one, sold the first one a 75hp with my other boat then bought a 90hp for my 17' Arima Sea Pacer.
Post by: jamesfromseattle on June 05, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
I had an I/o and loved the feel of the boat and I'm sure it was a would have been as reliable as any engine if maintained properly. However, it was too darn confusing for me to stay current on the maintenance so I let a lot of stuff get run down. For that reason, I'm sticking with outboards in the future.
Post by: Encore 280 on June 05, 2015, 01:35:26 PM
Post by: Alchase on June 05, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
and seeing nothing but a line of two stroke smoke the first 20 feet off the water, LOL
Post by: 2labs on June 05, 2015, 08:14:48 PM
Post by: MarkyMark on June 08, 2015, 05:09:53 PM
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Post by: magnanimous_j on June 08, 2015, 05:19:40 PM
The only times I have been on boats with some sort of motor failure are inboards. I would never own one and never even consider buying one.
Something tells me you never had an early 90's bayliner. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yeah, but that was just thanks to those wonderful Force outboards.... :o
When I was a kid, my dad bought a brand new Bayliner bowrider with the Force 120 (I think). We were living in central Oregon then and took it out to some big lake out there. This motor probably had less than 10 hours on it and he took it right to the dead center of this lake and it died. You have to understand, my dad is very much a "all bark, no bite" kind of guy, so watching him red-faced scream at this boat for an hour until someone got close enough to flag down (this was the early 90's, no cell phones) is something my mom and I still give him crap about.