Hunting Washington Forum

Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 12:58:04 PM

Title: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 12:58:04 PM: Does an FFL get me dealer pricing on guns, parts, and ammo, necessarily? I was thinking that if I got the FFL, I could do transfers for friends and save money on gun stuff. What are the benefits and drawbacks of getting the license?
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: bearpaw on June 02, 2015, 01:01:28 PM: The biggest drawback I've heard is the paperwork and dealing with the feds.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 02, 2015, 01:02:15 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 12:58:04 PM
Does an FFL get me dealer pricing on guns, parts, and ammo, necessarily? I was thinking that if I got the FFL, I could do transfers for friends and save money on gun stuff. What are the benefits and drawbacks of getting the license?

Drawbacks: Record keeping, ATF up in your biz.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 01:05:07 PM: You really dont want one. they have 24 hr 365 acess for un announced inspections. What ever $ you think you would make goes WAY to far in allowing Gov intrusion into your life. If you just shop many of the sales you can find nearly as good a deal and save your privacy.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Encore 280 on June 02, 2015, 01:06:25 PM: I had one back in the 80's so I could work on guns and buy and sell. At the time the license was $50 I think and then you have to keep records of guns acquired, worked on and bought and sold. It was nice being able to buy from Brownell's at a discount and buying firearms wholesale too. I wasn't in the best location to run a business so it was just out of my garage. Finally gave it up when the price of the license went up and I changed locations. Not sure if you'd have to have a business license also. Maybe someone else on here can give you some better info.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on June 02, 2015, 01:10:30 PM: I think ATF wants it to be a business venture to issue FFLs. They can come do surprise inspections for your books/forms/inventory if I remember correctly. A buddy was looking into getting one for buying/selling on gunbroker and cutting costs for friends, but they wanted him to set up as a business with license or somewhat. Turned out to be more hassle than he wanted to deal with. Mostly interested in the taxes associated/generated from it.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 01:14:38 PM: I didn't know about the 24/365 inspections. It does sound like a lot of run around just to save a few bucks. Any positives anyone?
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 01:15:17 PM: I would also add that YOU are responcible for allthe info and if/ when you stop your ATF compliance then the records go to the feds. I know a couple of people with them who are small time. Not only have they recieved ATF BS but they are on the County radar as well and have been hastled about selling out of thier homes. One of which I asked if he was going to start selling Cans. He said that if he were to do it over again he would try and find a way to do his business without getting a FFL, which may or may not have been possible. He decided not to get into selling cans because of the extra hastle he knew he would recive for the marginal increase in $. Since you are business minded I think you should look into what things products you CAN purchase/resell without an FFL and stongly consider just that.

A customer of mine recently sold off his Firearms and acessory business. (perfectly timed, he sold right at the peak) Now is not the time to get into the business since there are so many great deals out there from the manufacturers trying to stay afloat. If you had space and $ to park for an extended period it may not be a bad investment... For example I recently purchased 250 rounds of estate buckshot from midway It was $90delivered to my door. or about $9 bucks a box of 25, best i had seen ANYWHERE was about $14 one box at a time on sale, normal about $20
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Bill W on June 02, 2015, 01:17:43 PM: Here's how the rules once read back when I had an FFL.

If you list your hours as "by appointment" the ATF can call for an inspection at any time. If you list hours, say Tuesday 2:00-4:00PM and nothing else then ATF can only inspect during those hours. I used to live in Kirkland and gave it up once the local police started getting too nosy.

Other than that I had it for about 20-25 years and never had an inspection.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Special T on June 02, 2015, 01:53:18 PM: you can buy and sell ammo with no Lic https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/license-required-engage-business-selling-small-arms-ammunition
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 02, 2015, 01:55:24 PM: Quote from: Special T on June 02, 2015, 01:53:18 PM
you can buy and sell ammo with no Lic

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/license-required-engage-business-selling-small-arms-ammunition

I assumed the purpose was primarily savings and to ease I594 burdens. But that is a lot of trouble for a little savings and favors for your friends. If I did it, it would be for a business purpose.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Firedogg on June 02, 2015, 01:57:54 PM: It was a pain when I had mine following the feds regs, state business laws and paying out more in taxes on the small amounts I was making.

Although I did not run the business out of my house, instead specifically noted the shop behind the house as the place of doing buisness. Got it it's own POB and for Ups/FedEx deliveres it was listed as the address with a "B" to show on everything it was the shop, not the house. Never had any issues with it. I let it go, the things I was doing with it were not meeting the goals I had set out to do.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Jingles on June 02, 2015, 02:18:28 PM: Other than buying firearms directly from a manufacturer what advantage do you expect to get that you don't have already? you want to purchase a gun purchase one. Have recently purchased 2 myself one rifle and one pistol and sure as hell didn't worry about 594 or even buying in state. F Washington or even the fed registration
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on June 02, 2015, 02:48:06 PM: i just recently took a serious look at doing this as well. i decided it wasn't worth it once you consider what you will be saving vs expenses, business licenses, insurance ect. also if you can get a local permit due to zoning issues with having a at home ffl
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 03:11:13 PM: Quote from: Jingles on June 02, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
Other than buying firearms directly from a manufacturer what advantage do you expect to get that you don't have already? you want to purchase a gun purchase one. Have recently purchased 2 myself one rifle and one pistol and sure as hell didn't worry about 594 or even buying in state. F Washington or even the fed registration

I was thinking that doing transfers for friends and fellow HuntWA members would be useful, too. :dunno:
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 03:12:03 PM: Quote from: HighCountryHunter88 on June 02, 2015, 02:48:06 PM
i just recently took a serious look at doing this as well. i decided it wasn't worth it once you consider what you will be saving vs expenses, business licenses, insurance ect. also if you can get a local permit due to zoning issues with having a at home ffl

Good things to consider. Thanks for doing my work for me! :tup:
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Jingles on June 02, 2015, 05:02:10 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 03:11:13 PM
Quote from: Jingles on June 02, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
Other than buying firearms directly from a manufacturer what advantage do you expect to get that you don't have already? you want to purchase a gun purchase one. Have recently purchased 2 myself one rifle and one pistol and sure as hell didn't worry about 594 or even buying in state. F Washington or even the fed registration

I was thinking that doing transfers for friends and fellow HuntWA members would be useful, too. :dunno:

You mean there are actually people that worry about using an FFL to buy and sell between private parties. Bet they voted democrat too
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 09, 2015, 03:14:23 PM: My FFL guys hates the government B.S. He's been doing it for many years too. He dreads the paperwork for naught. He now charges me $50 instead of the $20. Honestly, I'll buy my guns from www.davidsonsgalleryofguns.com Everything is done for you and the FFL Davidson's has on their website. You make your deposit online and pay the FFL guy you picked, the difference. Fill out the paperwork, done.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 09, 2015, 03:49:52 PM: Yeah, I've decided against this. For saving what would amount to a hundred dollars or so a year, this is definitely not worth it. Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: Bean Counter on July 09, 2015, 04:28:08 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 01:14:38 PM
I didn't know about the 24/365 inspections. It does sound like a lot of run around just to save a few bucks. Any positives anyone?

I once had a job at larger company and the hajj with an FFL earned his $35 fee several times a month ordering guns for every Tom, Dick, and Harry who likes guns, which was a lot of us. 8)
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: csaaphill on July 13, 2015, 01:13:14 AM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 12:58:04 PM
Does an FFL get me dealer pricing on guns, parts, and ammo, necessarily? I was thinking that if I got the FFL, I could do transfers for friends and save money on gun stuff. What are the benefits and drawbacks of getting the license?
Actually don't know about now, but befor Clinton I had a personal FFL. Was trying to get into Gun repair so I had to have one. I got tons of gun books for free tons of Brownells Catalogues etcetera. Back then it was only $75.00, and only dealt the the ATF once when I let it expire.
Of cource that was before Clinton Mucked everything up so I'd imagine ATF could tell you what you had for breakfast now. Their nose would be so brown! :chuckle:
Today I think it's $275 bucks but you do get a lot of access to cheap wholesale guns and parts which I think might be worth it.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2015, 06:13:34 AM: Quote from: csaaphill on July 13, 2015, 01:13:14 AM
Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 02, 2015, 12:58:04 PM
Does an FFL get me dealer pricing on guns, parts, and ammo, necessarily? I was thinking that if I got the FFL, I could do transfers for friends and save money on gun stuff. What are the benefits and drawbacks of getting the license?
Actually don't know about now, but befor Clinton I had a personal FFL. Was trying to get into Gun repair so I had to have one. I got tons of gun books for free tons of Brownells Catalogues etcetera. Back then it was only $75.00, and only dealt the the ATF once when I let it expire.
Of cource that was before Clinton Mucked everything up so I'd imagine ATF could tell you what you had for breakfast now. Their nose would be so brown! :chuckle:
Today I think it's $275 bucks but you do get a lot of access to cheap wholesale guns and parts which I think might be worth it.

It sounds good, but not worth having the BATFE's chief proctologist examining me on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Should I get an FFL?
Post by: splitshot on July 13, 2015, 07:05:56 AM: i know 2 people who were going to do the same as you, red sox , but were denied the ffl. later they were glad they were denied for most of the reasons explained above. good thread. some things sound great at first then upon learning some details they sour and turn south. mike w