Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: WapitiTalk1 on June 15, 2015, 11:45:06 PM
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I see that a bunch of lucky folks have drawn a special permit tag this year. A big congrats to you guys and gals. Now, I'm guessing more than a few of you have never stepped foot into the area you're gonna hunt this fall. I thought a thread about successfull scouting of a new area is timely so hopefully, each of you can post your hero shot after your "successful" hunt! Scouting is not only putting boots on the ground in the summer of the area you'll be hunting. In most instances, the elk will not be where they are now come a given hunting season this fall.
Please, share a tip for successful scouting of a new area for our viewing audience, and, certainly for those who were lucky enough to draw a permit area they are not that familiar with.
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Good thread idea! I'm successful in areas or states I've never been due to my map work. I know every contour of the area I'll be in before I ever get there. Mytopo.com gives me free topo maps of excellent quality to find the contours I'd like to hunt which will harbor elk. Google Earth tells me where the openings are. OnXMaps tells me who owns which land parcels. County Assessors' sites tell me how to get in touch with the right person.
The success part comes from years of doing this and knowing elk well. Every mistake I've made in the past that resulted in an unfilled tag better not be repeated.
Google Earth is the single best resource an elk hunter can have.
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I had a science teacher who openly declared on Monday that he had hidden the answers to a test we were going to have on Friday. He then laid out the topic, gave the lesson plan including chapters in a book to be covered and told us that Tuesday through Thursday would be self study. At the beginning of each day he gave us a clue as to where the answers were located/hidden. I remember one being, "Today it's 72 and tomorrow might be 78, but you may want to study if you are desperate." By Friday the class room had been completely torn apart, every thermometer in the school had been removed from it's mounting and all but three students failed the test. When asked where he hid the answers he said, "All the answers to the questions on this test were hidden in the lesson plan between page 72 and page 78 in the text book" :chuckle:
I bring up this story because too often we rush out looking for the answers to our success without doing our homework first. We get a tag, jump in our truck, drive to a strange place in hopes of stumbling across the hidden answers. When what we really should do first is form a lesson plan and read up on the subject. Even asking a teacher or expert for help once in a while.
For me scouting starts with knowing the animal. I want to know what they eat while I plan to be hunting them. I want to know when they are going to be in rut. I want to know why they hide, where they hide, common sleeping routines, solitary or family unit preferences. I want to know how they challenge for dominance, what their vocal nature is, how much they drink, what struggles they have, what they fear, how good their eyesight is and how they react to what they see. I want to know everything about their behavior, their habits, their biology, physiology and anatomy.
If I draw a new area for blacktail in September or Elk in late November I'm not going to be looking for breeding grounds. Because I know enough about those two animals to know deer don't go into rut in September and elk are done breeding by late November. Likewise, if I'm going to be hunting elk in September and blacktails in November I'll want to make sure I have my calls ready and be looking for stands of timber with level ground conducive to breeding. And if I'm hunting bear in the spring I don't want to waste my time looking for berry fields above timberline.
Seldom are animals going to be in the same areas in July as they are during hunting season. Even fewer are going to be eating the same thing, thinking the same thing, working the mountain the same way and being driven by the same love desires. So my advise is to always learn the animal first, learn the area second, and find where the animals are third. You will make better use of your time if you do. Then, if you can shoot straight, you should be able to pass the test!
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Tagging. Didn't draw a tag, but the area i grew up hunting is permit only and i haven't taken the time to learn a new area yet. I'm starting to form my plan for this year though.
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A-sk on Hunting-Washington.com
B-e respectful.
C-post...
There you have the ABC's of scouting new areas. LOL! :tup:
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Google earth and elk biologists are the two best resources for locating an area to scout. Look for rubs and wallows when you are scouting for a Sept hunt.
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My summer scouting consists mainly of hiking and learning trails. I feel it really helps knowing their daily routes and escape routes. I use hunting gps maps and also google earth. But it seams to me nothing beats having feet on the ground. I use my gps's tracks option to map out trails and anything else of importance. Then load it all on garmin base camp and over lap topo then print it out and study it every chance I get. I can label/name trails and give hunting parters maps as well which really helps when hunting with friends or family in the same areas but not together. That way you can give much better directions to your bull for packing helpers or tell others what you've seen and where it's headed.
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One thing I've learned is to not be afraid to talk to the locals. By that, I don't mean necessarily knocking on doors. Virtually every small town has a bar or café where lots of the locals congregate and it can be very worthwhile to haunt them occasionally and talk to them. This informal meeting can often times lead to great tips. I also talk to the people in the local gas station or grocery store. Surprising how many wives, daughters or other relatives enjoy bragging about where their husband or dad or relative shoots a "big one" every year and often times gives pretty explicit directions-if you handle the conversation correctly. If you"re friendly and not city uppity these local connections can prove very worthwhile (and a great chance to meet some very nice people to boot). Scouting a new area can be very frustrating, especially when that prime area you find is the same prime area 50 other groups have decided to be at when the hunt actually starts. It's a little different for the special permits because the crowds are obviously limited, but, even then, nothing beats local knowledge.
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Yeah. Go talk to the timber cruisers and loggers.
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Yeah. Go talk to the timber cruisers and loggers.
:tup: Timber security, Forest Service patrol, DNR surveyors, game wardens and loggers have been the ones most useful and open to give quality information for me. It is amazing how much helpful information FS and WDFW law enforcement will openly give if you ask respectfully.
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Some very good tidbits here folks. Yep, don't sleep on local knowledge.. it can be invaluable. FS Ranger station folks who spend many hours on those high access roads usually have some knowledge about the game movement in the area; as JH mentioned, if there is logging activity in the area, those cats are traveling the roads during peak elk movement times (zero dark thirty and coming out right before dark) and may have a bit of info to share on what they're seeing. An icy cold coke or a frosty beer offering when you hear them shut the equipment down in the late afternoon can reap dividends. Summer scouting on foot can be a great help, just as doing your remote scouting (GE, Acme Mapper, Caltopo, etc.) is vital. Scouting the area on foot and identifying, rubs, wallows, mineral licks, bedding areas, travel routes, feeding areas, benches, etc., are all parts of the puzzle. Remember that most visible rubs are oftentimes velvet rubs and really provide no assistance in determining where the bulls will be come September and beyond. By whatever means necessary (local knowledge/actual BOG scouting), locate the summering cow herds and keep track of them as much as humanly possible; the bulls will move to them from their bachelor groups come early September. Wallows get the highest useage during mid August through early September (although yes, some wallows are used as late as October, but not the norm) so I really don't pay a ton of attention to them. Determine what the terrain and ground cover is like for the tentative new area which may provide assistance on how to scout/hunt. If relatively or semi-open, find and mark your high glassing points; for a relatively dry area, water points and possible tree standing/ground blinds may be a consideration; if alder/huckleberry/vine maple choked with minimal high glassing points, travel routes become key to locate. If possible, trail cams should be deployed soon and checked every week or so until your hunt starts.... ;)
Edit: Guess I was typing when RadSav was. Several folks have mentioned USFS folks (timber cruisers) and loggers as a source of info. Must be something to it ;)
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I have never done this in Washington, but in eastern Oregon our main pre-season scout technique was to get lightning strike data from folks manning the towers. Most lighning strikes around Baker City were hitting high concentration of minerals. It would create a natural mineral lick when the lightning opened up the soil. We'd bring chips and salsa, soda, beer, Crown, candy...just about any home comforts were happily traded with these tower workers. One guy on Lookout Mountain east of Baker City put us up for the night and allowed us to watch as he recorded close to 80 lightning strikes in one evening. That was rather fascinating! I killed a nice muledeer and both my hunting partner and I tagged bulls on those lightning strikes a few weeks later. All because of a little friendship and some bartering!
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I have never done this in Washington, but in eastern Oregon our main pre-season scout technique was to get lightning strike data from folks manning the towers. Most lighning strikes around Baker City were hitting high concentration of minerals. It would create a natural mineral lick when the lightning opened up the soil. We'd bring chips and salsa, soda, beer, Crown, candy...just about any home comforts were happily traded with these tower workers. One guy on Lookout Mountain east of Baker City put us up for the night and allowed us to watch as he recorded close to 80 lightning strikes in one evening. That was rather fascinating! I killed a nice muledeer and both my hunting partner and I tagged bulls on those lightning strikes a few weeks later. All because of a little friendship and some bartering!
Reminds me of when we were young and went into the back country of Utah. Lots of isolated sheep camps and my father would take a bottle of cheap red wine and a couple of recent newspapers to the herders, talk about a great source of where to find animals. Those herders were out riding the hills everyday and would even supply a horse if you needed to get an animal out. The think the old saying "you catch a lot more flys with honey than you do vinegar" is very apt when out scouting and talking to any local.
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Well sonofagun RadSav, that's a new one on me; it makes perfect sense though. Safety disclaimer: for those reading this, do not go running through the woods chasing lightning touch down points :chuckle:
Lightning, that reminds me. Elk have no problem entering recent burn areas... in some cases, almost immediately after the burn is out (I've heard of them actually rolling in the ash to keep the bugs off). They "love" burn areas the following few years as the phenomenon can promote some very lush grasses/low shrub growth (elk salad). Thanks for the lightning strike/mineral lick exposure tip.. added something to my elk tool kit today.
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I usually start with back country navigator pro to quickly see all the state land and start looking at the topo and areal maps of all of those public areas. Then I usually swtich to the hunt by onX maps to see the bigger land owners in the area and figure out who's granting what type of access and if it all requires a permit. Then I will usually troll here searching old posts on the unit name and sometimes shoot a pm to anybody who seemed to know about the area. About this time I post any other questions I am having on here and might call a local business or 2 that I could possibly patrinage and use their service to learn something about the area. For my Wynoochee tag I called a local river guide to see about booking a steelhead trip and floating the river for example. They were very helpful and now I cant wait to go fishing again. Then I usually call the Bio for that area. Finally I take all my notes and my printed off maps and I go drive to several of the points I want to try and access. See how close I can get by vehicle and start trying to figure out the best hike in/bike in spots. That usually narrows down my search to just a few specific areas and I try to get back to those as much as i can as the season gets closer for knowing animal movement, and also just to get to know the trails, ridges, creek bottoms etc. As many have said, sign in summer doesnt mean the animals will be there in fall. Usually the bios are helpful with some of this knowledge, as well as setting you up with landowners who have complaints. I have also found hitting garage sales in the areas nearby to be productive and have gotten some good tips that way.
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Drive all the roads, and mark which roads are gated, open, brushed in, walkable, etc... Topo maps show roads that don't even exist anymore, and don't show new roads and timber sales. After I am done with my computer homework I start driving. I mark waypoints at gates, trail heads, Elk trails, etc... Gives you a great feel for where the pressured areas are if you know every conceivable access point, and can pay huge dividends in getting an animal out. Last year we were hunting a new area, and my buddy stuck a nice bull. We loaded our 2200's with meat and headed towards where the Map showed a road. Well, that road was so brushed in it was impossible to walk. We thrashed through the brush in the dark for hours, and when we came back for the second load in the morning here there was a different road not even on the map that ran within a mile of the bull :yike: Would've saved us about 6 extremely painful hours the previous night. Plus it is a sad deal when you kill yourself hiking into an area only to discover there are people there because there is better access from the next drainage. :twocents:
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This will be the first year me and my buddy venture out of state to ID. I have found the same tools as other mentioned to be very useful in figuring out a good starting point (Google Earth, Caltopo etc). Also the information gained from talking/emailing the local/regional biologists proved to narrow down the search in a fairly large unit that I have never laid eyes on. I did not gain any "go here and you will get into elk" advice but it definitely helped. Not being able to get out of town for an extended scouting trip prior to the season makes me nervous to put all my eggs in one basket though. I feel with the research that has been done, compare and contrast data mining (harvest stats, access etc), information given from Biologists and talking with a work buddy who has hunted muleys there we have as good of shot as any to hopefully be successful.
Now if anyone has any info on Unit 29 and wants to say "go here and you will get into elk" feel free. :chuckle:
....or if this is the worst unit to choose to hunt elk in, that would be nice too, although I am pot committed and sticking to my guns.
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One thing I've found helpful in trying to learn a new area is to connect with the warden or biologists who manage the area you are going to be hunting in. They for the most part are big in to the outdoors themselves and are spending the majority of their days in the region or woods. This gives them a unique perspective and knowledge as to what animals reside in the area and where. For the most part they are typically very open to pointing you in the right direction and offering tips if you ask.
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A-sk on Hunting-Washington.com
B-e respectful.
C-post...
There you have the ABC's of scouting new areas. LOL! :tup:
when A and B fail C will always get it done!
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A-sk on Hunting-Washington.com
B-e respectful.
C-post...
There you have the ABC's of scouting new areas. LOL! :tup:
This should really end this thread. No more to know than this. :chuckle:
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Some have been mentioned already....if you don't have a computer, it might be time to get one. Google Earth, Google Maps in terrain mode, MyTopo.com are great ways to do work from home or the office. Once you get to make a road trip track down some local biologist, or some of the locals out and about. And remember, always be friendly and be willing to lift a hand if someone looks like the might need some help! A smile, handshake, and quick chat go a long ways!! Good luck to everyone out in the field and be safe!!
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I can buy a lot of fuel for what it wouild take to update this old computer. :dunno: :o
