Post by: bugs n bones on June 21, 2015, 07:26:01 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 21, 2015, 07:30:35 PM
Post by: X-Force on June 21, 2015, 07:33:50 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on June 21, 2015, 07:39:44 PM
I think the particulars of your question are usually better answered on a bird watching forum cuz those dudes often own one of each of the big name glass. Someone who owns several different brands is usually a better source of info than a fanboy of one brand :twocents:
Post by: UBA on June 21, 2015, 08:10:03 PM
Post by: theleo on June 21, 2015, 08:26:33 PM
Post by: Bob33 on June 21, 2015, 08:37:47 PM
Post by: dobby on June 21, 2015, 08:39:36 PM
:tup:
Post by: dreamunelk on June 21, 2015, 08:59:42 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on June 21, 2015, 09:17:47 PM
Only look through the Leopold. You will be happy with it.
Very true. If you don't know what you're missing then you won't miss it. The leupold is very nice for the price and it is what I have for a spotter. But I would much rather have Swarovski or Leica. I'm not a big fan of zeiss unless it says Carl zeiss on it.
Post by: Bigshooter on June 21, 2015, 09:20:18 PM
I own both. I have a Leupold 12-40x60 HD, and a 20-60x80 Swarovski. While the glass in the Swarovski is slightly better, I usually end up taking the Leupold. It is smaller, lighter, has better eye relief, and the 12x is nice because of the wider field of view. If weight is no consideration I would choose the Swarovski, but that Leupold is a very nice piece of glass.Bob buy the 25 power wide angle eye piece for your swarovski if you like a wider field of view. I was blown away the first time I looked through one.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 21, 2015, 10:03:01 PM
I own both. I have a Leupold 12-40x60 HD, and a 20-60x80 Swarovski. While the glass in the Swarovski is slightly better, I usually end up taking the Leupold. It is smaller, lighter, has better eye relief, and the 12x is nice because of the wider field of view. If weight is no consideration I would choose the Swarovski, but that Leupold is a very nice piece of glass.Ive used both head to head - with us older eyesights it can be tough to tell the difference. Have wide angle swaro HD but is it worth the extra weight and $$ ? Idk none of them are perfect so when you cant quite get that distant view in focus you think "I wish I had better glass". With the swaro i still wish it was better but Im not regretting my purchase each time.
Post by: xXLojackXx on June 22, 2015, 10:55:43 AM
Post by: bugs n bones on June 23, 2015, 06:51:13 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on June 23, 2015, 08:27:13 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 24, 2015, 09:52:51 AM
So your saying the ats 65 is hands down noticeably way better than the new golden ring 60 power hd?
Depends how old you are ? My son can see a significant difference between Swaro HD and Leupold. I can't but though I don't need glasses my eyesight is not as sharp as his. Swaro is only slightly better to me. Much better to him.
Post by: Bob33 on June 24, 2015, 09:58:21 AM
I would attribute it more to individual eyesight than age. I have 50+ year old eyes that are 20-15. When you're considering high end glass, it's tough to make generalizations because everyone sees a bit differently.So your saying the ats 65 is hands down noticeably way better than the new golden ring 60 power hd?
Depends how old you are ? My son can see a significant difference between Swaro HD and Leupold. I can't but though I don't need glasses my eyesight is not as sharp as his. Swaro is only slightly better to me. Much better to him.
Post by: b23 on June 25, 2015, 07:42:33 AM
If you're looking for something small yet still has exceptional glass, that little ED50 from Nikon is unbelievably good, especially when you factor in what they cost. IMO, easily, the best packing spotter on the market.
Post by: magnumb on June 28, 2015, 05:37:26 PM
If you're gonna take the leap and you've already made up your mind that you're gonna buy a great/forever/lifetime companion, 'do it all' spotter ...... make it a fully informed leap.
The landing is gonna hurt either way, but it's what you're left with that counts.
Good luck.......owning any type of 'high-end' glass is a real pleasure.
Post by: Bean Counter on June 28, 2015, 05:43:33 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Leica-50mm-f0-95-ASPH-E60/dp/B001IKEX68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435538490&sr=8-1&keywords=leica+noctilux
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 28, 2015, 05:58:06 PM
You left out one that will at the least equal, those that you have listed and that would be the Kowa. My dad had a HD 80 Swaro and replaced it with a Kowa. Having spent time behind both, IMO, the Kowa was better.
If you're looking for something small yet still has exceptional glass, that little ED50 from Nikon is unbelievably good, especially when you factor in what they cost. IMO, easily, the best packing spotter on the market.
Kowa 88mm is the top rated scope by all the birders.....
Post by: Bob33 on June 28, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
Plain old boring 50mm focal length.Not quite. It has an aperture of .95 which is possibly the world's fastest.
Post by: Bean Counter on June 28, 2015, 06:35:34 PM
Not sure why on earth someone would shoot 0.95x with manual focus. then again I've never owned a range finding camera.
Post by: Bob33 on June 28, 2015, 07:08:30 PM
Post by: lewy on June 28, 2015, 07:11:48 PM
Post by: Crunchy on June 28, 2015, 11:50:30 PM
Owned both, and USED em both. Leupy packs better, swaro views better. Both work, but people who can't afford swaro, or go cheap will tell you there lesser brand is equal, it is not.
Well put. When you are looking at a deer 1,000 yards away, in the brush, you WANT to know what kind of deer you are looking at. Less expensive glass wont give you the details you want to see. Top tier glass is top tier glass for a reason. Several different manufactures to chose from.
Post by: AKBowman on August 03, 2015, 10:23:29 PM
Leica makes an $11,000 lens for its rangefinder cameras. Plain old boring 50mm focal length.. for $11k, you don't even get image stabilization nor auto focus! :yike:
http://www.amazon.com/Leica-50mm-f0-95-ASPH-E60/dp/B001IKEX68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435538490&sr=8-1&keywords=leica+noctilux
Funny you mentioned that. It likely only costs $11K because Leica purchases their glass from Carl Zeiss. That's absolutely the truth. They do a good job with their coatings but I can't respect a company that purchases the main component of the optics from their competitor.
When you've been in business since 1846 and are still in business today you learn a few things along the way. All the products are good but I do believe Zeiss has the best optics.
Post by: huntnphool on August 03, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on August 04, 2015, 01:35:13 AM
Leica makes an $11,000 lens for its rangefinder cameras. Plain old boring 50mm focal length.. for $11k, you don't even get image stabilization nor auto focus! :yike:
http://www.amazon.com/Leica-50mm-f0-95-ASPH-E60/dp/B001IKEX68/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435538490&sr=8-1&keywords=leica+noctilux
Funny you mentioned that. It likely only costs $11K because Leica purchases their glass from Carl Zeiss. That's absolutely the truth. They do a good job with their coatings but I can't respect a company that purchases the main component of the optics from their competitor.
When you've been in business since 1846 and are still in business today you learn a few things along the way. All the products are good but I do believe Zeiss has the best optics.
I didn't know that Leica stopped manufacturing their own glass. They sure do carry on like they still do :o
http://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe#yHQO0Lst9f9egtWf.97
http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/lenses/page57.html
Well Zeiss makes the 55mm Distagon for Nikon and Canon, but it only runs $4,000 instead of $11,000 like the Leica. I'm sure there's at least a few grand added for the Leica name :chuckle:
Apparently some of the "anomalous partial dispersion" elements within the OTUS Distagon are more expensive ounce-per-ounce than gold. :yike: They wanted to make a lens with Zero. Optical. Compromise. Period. Sounds like they succeeded, but in the end had to forego autofocus and go strictly with manual, simply because of the weight of some of the internal elements. No ass-end weather sealing gasket, either. Not sure this lens would be of much use to many of us in the world of moving animals, kids, sports, etc. Only for studios, landscape, etc where stuff doesn't move and you can carefully set up your shot like a sniper.
Post by: thinkingman on August 04, 2015, 07:58:12 AM
He owns a set of Zeiss lenses that cost as much as a house.
He rents them out and makes good money.
Had a set of Cooke lenses and when he sold them he MADE over $30k.
Post by: Elknut1 on August 05, 2015, 06:36:43 AM
I took the plunge and ordered a Swaro ATS 80 HD 25X50 wide angle lens 2015 model, I figured if I was going to do it I might as well choose a nice one & one that was supposed to be close to the Razor HD 85. It came in last Thursday so I was able to use it for several hours worth of comparison in early morning, midday & right at night fall & an hour before. I wanted to see how these two paired up for myself. I put them on the same Tripods & went to viewing.
Funny thing was, just before we started to check both of these out (there were several of us) we were talking with a good friend that had the Swaro 65 HD, he was telling us that he put it side by side with the Razor HD 65 & could tell little differences if any at all, I said hmm, oh well we'll see.
After several hours of comparison with the Swaro 80 HD & the Razor HD 85 I can honestly say that guys who say the Swaro blows the Vortex away is nuts! (grin) It shows me they haven't looked through the 80 & 85 side by side. They may be comparing the Viper HD or the Razor 65 next to an 80 HD Swaro or something, that would be an unfair comparison. I feel guys are defending themselves & convincing themselves that their money was well spent. Heck I don't blame them but let's be honest here. -- I will say I like the outside look & feel of the Swaro but guys we buy for the glass not the cosmetics of our Spotters, we want results, plus the Razor is no slouch in looks either! The differences between these two is so small that it's hardly worth mentioning, no kidding.
For me I will stay with the Razor HD & save the extra 1700.00 that the Swaro was over the Razor. I now know for a fact that I'm using one heck of a nice Spotter! (grin) The Swaro was returned! Nothing wrong with Swaro it's just way over priced.
ElkNut1
Post by: b23 on August 05, 2015, 08:03:03 AM
I see a lot of threads on subjects as these so I just had to check the Swaro out myself. I've been using all Vortex Spotters from the 50 to 65 to 85 & have not been disappointed to date, they seem to do very well in all conditions. I see guys swear by this one & that one & that Swaro blows things away, geez I just had to see! (grin) Maybe I was missing something!
I took the plunge and ordered a Swaro ATS 80 HD 25X50 wide angle lens 2015 model, I figured if I was going to do it I might as well choose a nice one & one that was supposed to be close to the Razor HD 85. It came in last Thursday so I was able to use it for several hours worth of comparison in early morning, midday & right at night fall & an hour before. I wanted to see how these two paired up for myself. I put them on the same Tripods & went to viewing.
Funny thing was, just before we started to check both of these out (there were several of us) we were talking with a good friend that had the Swaro 65 HD, he was telling us that he put it side by side with the Razor HD 65 & could tell little differences if any at all, I said hmm, oh well we'll see.
After several hours of comparison with the Swaro 80 HD & the Razor HD 85 I can honestly say that guys who say the Swaro blows the Vortex away is nuts! (grin) It shows me they haven't looked through the 80 & 85 side by side. They may be comparing the Viper HD or the Razor 65 next to an 80 HD Swaro or something, that would be an unfair comparison. I feel guys are defending themselves & convincing themselves that their money was well spent. Heck I don't blame them but let's be honest here. -- I will say I like the outside look & feel of the Swaro but guys we buy for the glass not the cosmetics of our Spotters, we want results, plus the Razor is no slouch in looks either! The differences between these two is so small that it's hardly worth mentioning, no kidding.
For me I will stay with the Razor HD & save the extra 1700.00 that the Swaro was over the Razor. I now know for a fact that I'm using one heck of a nice Spotter! (grin) The Swaro was returned! Nothing wrong with Swaro it's just way over priced.
ElkNut1
Went through this with my dad few years ago. Started with non HD Swaro and went all the way to the HD w/25x50 wide angle lens. It was good but I was never really blown away by it and the cost, as everyone knows, is steep. He got that one stolen so we started all over again and after spending some time behind them, we both felt the Kowa was the best choice and that's what he replaced his HD Swaro with.
Post by: Bob33 on August 09, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/09/marines-and-army-use-compact-leupold-mk4-spotting-scope/
Post by: thinkingman on August 09, 2015, 08:16:22 PM
Marine and Army snipers think that Leupolds are good enough.They have a choice?
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/09/marines-and-army-use-compact-leupold-mk4-spotting-scope/
Post by: huntnphool on August 09, 2015, 08:50:54 PM
Marine and Army snipers think that Leupolds are good enough.They have a choice?
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/09/marines-and-army-use-compact-leupold-mk4-spotting-scope/
+1
Post by: Bob33 on August 09, 2015, 10:38:58 PM
They use some German rifle scopes so it appears they can get what they want.Marine and Army snipers think that Leupolds are good enough.They have a choice?
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/09/marines-and-army-use-compact-leupold-mk4-spotting-scope/
+1
Post by: JDHasty on September 25, 2015, 01:28:14 PM
I own both. I have a Leupold 12-40x60 HD, and a 20-60x80 Swarovski. While the glass in the Swarovski is slightly better, I usually end up taking the Leupold. It is smaller, lighter, has better eye relief, and the 12x is nice because of the wider field of view. If weight is no consideration I would choose the Swarovski, but that Leupold is a very nice piece of glass.:yeah:
I Have a 12-40X60 Leupold that is 25 years old and I have a Vortex Razor 85 that is a couple years old. I will haul that Leupold in a pack, the Vortex - not so much. The Leupold HD is a better scope than mine. It is really something you should consider if you are going to be packing it at all.
What has been said about the Swarro is true, a buddy has one and when we are set up for chuck shooting it is right beside other really nice scopes in the field. It is the gold standard. If you are not packing it that Razor 85 is something to consider as well though.
My family owns Leupold, Leica, Nikon EDG and Vortex optical instruments. I was talking to Vortex about buying another straight spotting scope after one of ours was stolen because when I set up so the kids can see through it it was killing my back. They recommended an angled scope, especially because we like to look at the stars and planets in the summer and the rep offered me loan of his angled Razor 85 for a week.
I bought one. Plus they offer two variations of the 30WA eyepiece w/reticle MOA or MRad. Having a reticle is a BIG deal if you are hunting with some folks, especially those who are new to the game. Until they learn what to look for it makes all the difference in the world to have a reticle to put on the animal. The graduations on the reticle are great for chuck shooting too.