Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2015, 10:17:09 AM
I am trying to figure out what bullet I should be using for this venture. In the past I've only ever hunted deer at <100 yards and just used powerbelts. In my longer range life, what should I use? Are the copper solids from Barnes the best bet? There are also some copper jacketed powerbelts on sale that seem like they may work. Do I want a lighter bullet with a smaller diameter (like a .45 sabot) to keep BC down for longer shots? Will that still work sufficiently for elk?
One final note... I had too much oil in my barrel the last time I used it and I had to pull my bullet. That worked out fine because I was starting my sight in process with round balls and it was easy to screw my bullet puller into the ball. If i were using copper solids... is this still possible? Has anyone ever had that problem with bullets without removable breech plugs? Should I be concerned about that moving forward?
-Stang
Some Options:
Swift A-Frame: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/321659/swift-a-frame-bullets-54-caliber-sabot-with-45-caliber-265-grain-bonded-hollow-point-pack-of-10?cm_vc=subv321659
TC Mag Express: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/121790/thompson-center-mag-express-sabot-54-caliber-with-250-grain-hornady-xtp-bullet-pack-of-30?cm_vc=subv121790
Barnes Expander: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/960871/barnes-expander-muzzleloading-bullets-54-caliber-sabot-with-50-caliber-275-grain-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-24?cm_vc=subv960871
Hornady SST and add my own sabot?: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/146381/hornady-sst-ml-muzzleloading-bullets-no-sabot-45-caliber-452-diameter-250-grain-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Powerbelt Copper Plated: http://www.cabelas.com/product/PowerBelt8482-Copper-Plated-and-Pure-Lead-Hollow-Point-Bullets/740350.uts
Post by: whacker1 on July 08, 2015, 10:30:11 AM
I am shooting an older Remington 700 ML in .54, which I think is 1 in 26 or 1 in 28 twist. I think your hawken is likely to be somethling like 1 in 48 twist. i am calling this all from memory, so Highly probable that i missed the mark by a little
Post by: oneshot12 on July 08, 2015, 12:54:02 PM
1. if you can find some - look for some Speer .452-250/300 grain bullets and regular 45-50 sabot... which by the way I have a bunch of...
2. Is look for a box of Speer .50x300 Deep Curls and get the 50-54 sabot - that would crunch the heck out of both deer and elk.. the 50 Speer might be excellent for a 54 because it is such a short bullet. - I also have some of those sabots that I could send you for experimenting purposes.
you might give them a try
Post by: jdb on July 08, 2015, 01:11:28 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on July 08, 2015, 01:25:46 PM
So I'm doing a lot of elk hunting with my Cabelas Sporterized Hawken .54 this year. I've placed a musket cap nipple on it, a Lyman hooded front sight and a lyman peep site on the tang. I'm really hoping to be proficient for MOE (minute of elk) at 150 yards come October.
I am trying to figure out what bullet I should be using for this venture. In the past I've only ever hunted deer at <100 yards and just used powerbelts. In my longer range life, what should I use? Are the copper solids from Barnes the best bet? There are also some copper jacketed powerbelts on sale that seem like they may work. Do I want a lighter bullet with a smaller diameter (like a .45 sabot) to keep BC down for longer shots? Will that still work sufficiently for elk?
One final note... I had too much oil in my barrel the last time I used it and I had to pull my bullet. That worked out fine because I was starting my sight in process with round balls and it was easy to screw my bullet puller into the ball. If i were using copper solids... is this still possible? Has anyone ever had that problem with bullets without removable breech plugs? Should I be concerned about that moving forward?
-Stang
Some Options:
Swift A-Frame: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/321659/swift-a-frame-bullets-54-caliber-sabot-with-45-caliber-265-grain-bonded-hollow-point-pack-of-10?cm_vc=subv321659
TC Mag Express: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/121790/thompson-center-mag-express-sabot-54-caliber-with-250-grain-hornady-xtp-bullet-pack-of-30?cm_vc=subv121790
Barnes Expander: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/960871/barnes-expander-muzzleloading-bullets-54-caliber-sabot-with-50-caliber-275-grain-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-24?cm_vc=subv960871
Hornady SST and add my own sabot?: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/146381/hornady-sst-ml-muzzleloading-bullets-no-sabot-45-caliber-452-diameter-250-grain-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Powerbelt Copper Plated: http://www.cabelas.com/product/PowerBelt8482-Copper-Plated-and-Pure-Lead-Hollow-Point-Bullets/740350.uts
The big thing is "what is the twist rate of your bore" in that 54. That will make a lot of difference in what you might be able to use.
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2015, 02:10:28 PM
Post by: oneshot12 on July 08, 2015, 02:23:39 PM
Post by: Curly on July 08, 2015, 02:27:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 08, 2015, 02:39:38 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2015, 02:46:55 PM
Post by: whacker1 on July 08, 2015, 02:50:41 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on July 08, 2015, 03:55:49 PM
I believe it is a 1-48" twist.
With a 1/48 twist bullet length is going to be important. The 1/48 is a compromise twist rate to allow shooting of round balls and lead conicals - normally the shorter the conical the better. If you going after elk with a Power Belt you might want to look on the heavy side of the scale. A power Belt into an elk can sometimes blow the lighter PB's into small pieces.
The Power Belts with the copper coating - it is a very thing copper plating on the bullet is is really not like the normal copper lead bullet.
Post by: Soady on July 08, 2015, 11:51:01 PM
You are on the right path by choosing your pick with the Hornady .250 grn at .452 IMO. My preference in this choice is it has the better ballistic coefficient of any of your suggestions, it is indeed a short frame bullet, .250 grains will be fine for deer and elk, bonded lead core, controlled expansion, long range performance. :dunno: those numbers tick the mark in my book, for starters. Match the bullets with a quality sabot, a reasonable powder charge that you can comfortably shoot and hit with and you will do fine.
I shoot the 300 grn. Hornady .452 XTP backed with 85 grns FFF T7 and musket cap primer in a Knight Bighorn confidently out to 100 yards but have been thinking of dropping to the 250 SST to increase range potential. Yet the dark side of me says in the wet side brush does the range potential difference out weight the knock down power of a heavier bullet in dense steep brush? Your choice depending on where you hunt will determine that. As for a bullet extraction with a standard ball screw extractor up against a copper bullet IDK never had that problem, usually just remove the breach plug or shoot a critter which ever comes first depending on circumstances. Your mileage may vary if you choose solid copper bullets though!
Too much oil or over season oiling just pop three caps on an empty barrel to blast out any remaining oil residue, dry swab, charge, load patch-sabot bullet combination, fire, ENJOY!
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 09, 2015, 07:42:28 AM
Does anyone see anything wrong with using a .45-.54 sabot and then enjoying the full range of jacketed bullets. Parker Productions makes some pretty cool bullets that go by this philosophy... same with Hornady as Soady mentioned. I'm thinking of going more that route. I'd really like to get out and touch something at 150 and I'm thinking a 250 or 300 grain .45 cal jacketed bullet with ~100 grains of powder might be the ticket.
http://parker-productions-llc.myshopify.com/pages/shooting-products
or
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-300-gr-SST-ML/
with Cheap .45-.54 sabots:
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5482
My last question for the masses, is that I've always used Pyrodex FFG equivalent, but am thinking of going to FFFG. Since I'm using a sidelock, I think it might help improve ignition. Do I have to worry about going up to 100 grains in FFFG? I'm not worried about my shoulder. I do currently have inconsistent/unreliable ignition with the FFG and thats even with musket caps.
Post by: TheHunt on July 09, 2015, 08:11:49 AM
I had really good luck with the Barnes Expander, but I think the rate of twist on your Hawken is slower than my inline, so I am not sure that your's will shoot them quite like mine.
I am shooting an older Remington 700 ML in .54, which I think is 1 in 26 or 1 in 28 twist. I think your hawken is likely to be somethling like 1 in 48 twist. i am calling this all from memory, so Highly probable that i missed the mark by a little
I have the same Remington 700 ML in .54. I have used the powerbelts that work well. I will look into these other bullets.
Post by: Soady on July 09, 2015, 08:03:52 PM
Thanks for the info.
Does anyone see anything wrong with using a .45-.54 sabot and then enjoying the full range of jacketed bullets. Parker Productions makes some pretty cool bullets that go by this philosophy... same with Hornady as Soady mentioned. I'm thinking of going more that route. I'd really like to get out and touch something at 150 and I'm thinking a 250 or 300 grain .45 cal jacketed bullet with ~100 grains of powder might be the ticket.
http://parker-productions-llc.myshopify.com/pages/shooting-products
or
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-300-gr-SST-ML/
with Cheap .45-.54 sabots:
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5482
My last question for the masses, is that I've always used Pyrodex FFG equivalent, but am thinking of going to FFFG. Since I'm using a sidelock, I think it might help improve ignition. Do I have to worry about going up to 100 grains in FFFG? I'm not worried about my shoulder. I do currently have inconsistent/unreliable ignition with the FFG and thats even with musket caps.
Up grading to a hotter nipple will work some magic in a side lock, also tipping the rifle towards the nipple after loading the powder and before inserting the bullet, strike the area right at the nipple to get the powder into the channel where the cap gas will be traveling to.
On the range after firing swab between shots and then popping a cap to clear the channel will give good results and avoid misfiring.
As you stated the FFF may provide some results though experimenting with charges and bullets will tell what your rifle likes to digest and give you the most accurate results. Picking and working with one powder, sabot, and bullet to extract the best from those components and recording the results will help you to determine how your rifle responds. After you work that for a while move on to the next round of powder charge increases, sabots, and bullets. The more you shoot and record you will soon see a pattern as to what that rifle and you as a shooter work best with.
I mentioned earlier I have had good results with 777 FFF and my son uses 777 FF along with the Hornady brand. I understand everyone has their own brand preference, the most important thing I can suggest is pick one and extract the best out of that brand, hopping from one to the next will get very expensive and lead to frustration. Good luck and good shooting! Keep us in the loop as to how your results are progressing. :tup:
Post by: OutHouse on August 20, 2015, 08:58:02 PM
Post by: MountainDevil54 on August 20, 2015, 09:32:10 PM
My first muzzy elk I dropped from 140 yards with that above load and just an 80gr pyrodex rs charge.
Lung shot of course and only a 60 yard recovery once the smoke cleared.