Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: mendozer on July 13, 2015, 12:23:40 PM

Title: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: mendozer on July 13, 2015, 12:23:40 PM: My buddy and I went scouting this past weekend in the Willapa GMU and later in the Olympic GMU for elk/deer. I chose Willapa since the harvest success rate is good for elk, about 15%. However, my OnXMap wasn't showing up properly at home so I couldn't look at land ownership. It did work on the GPS itself when we got there, and it revealed very little state land and lots of private timber.
We camped on state land and hiked north to what looked like clear cuts on Google Earth. However, all that was on timber land, so that area was a botched attempt.

I didn't see or hear a single elk. I was using my new calls and up there it was resonating very well into the surrounding valleys. I did see two does, and my calls scared them up off there hiding spots.

My question is since it's hot, where are they gonna be? Anyone have good information on elevation trends by temperature or season?

I know that I could buy access to a timber farm, but I refuse to based on principle. I shouldn't have to pay to access wild forest for hunting.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: trophyhunt on July 13, 2015, 12:34:17 PM: Its tough scouting right now with the heat, trail cameras are the best way to see what is in the area. They scout 24/7, just put some salt down and secure it to the tree so no maggots come along and steal it. I got around 517 pics on my camera after only 3 weeks of sitting. Spend the extra and get a bear box for it!
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: mendozer on July 13, 2015, 12:54:10 PM: thought about that. Didn't want to shell out the dough since many get stolen. Plus I don't have the time to be driving out there every weekend to check the cards and the wireless ones are WAAY too much to be spending on.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: trophyhunt on July 13, 2015, 01:08:06 PM: Everyone seems to like the bushnells, I've got two that don't work so I think I'm done with them. But they are popular and fairly cheap, say around 60.00. Just make sure a get a bear box, bushnells box is not made very well from the reviews I've read. If you do put one up you don't need to check it every week, 3 weeks or longer if you want. Just put some type of bait down, salt block they love right now.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: MLBowhunting on July 13, 2015, 01:29:28 PM: Using elk calls. Great way to educate the animals you want to hunt. :tup:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: LeviD1 on July 13, 2015, 01:37:01 PM: I agree. I wouldnt be call I right now at all. But thats just me. :twocents:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: mendozer on July 13, 2015, 02:48:42 PM: well shoot i don't know. I'm still in the noob phase. I figured if I did a cow call now another cow might call back. you know..."hello anyone out there?"...."yeah I'm over here"
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: vandeman17 on July 13, 2015, 03:06:50 PM: Knowing that you are a newbie hunter, I would also say that calling right now is a waste of time and possibly detrimental to your efforts. When I am scouting new areas, I am less concerned about seeing critters as I am about finding places that look good and have area to hunt. Deer and elk are in their mid summer routines right now and their habits and locations will be different coming hunting season. Like trophy said, trail cameras are good not only for seeing some of the animals in the area, but also helping you think more like a deer or an elk in that you are forced to try and find areas that the animals frequent. True education of a hunting area comes during hunting season. :tup:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: Labredog on July 13, 2015, 03:37:09 PM: Elk are where you find them. Boots on the ground, away from trails and roads will tell you a lot. You don't have to see elk to know they are using an area, fresh tracks, droppings, observe what's being browsed. Yes we all know elk like north facing shady timber, and deep cool drainages, except the herd I once found bedded down in the middle of a clear cut on a hot sunny 75 degree day during Archery season.like others have mentioned, cameras are a great tool if they aren't stolen or mauled. :twocents:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: Okanagan on July 13, 2015, 03:54:13 PM: Sounds like a very successful scouting trip to me! ;) You learned roads, routes, that there are no clearcuts where Google says there are, a place to camp, quite a bit about public and private boundaries-- in other words you know a lot more about that area than you did. Some scouting trips I consider successful have simply ruled out an area as a place I would never go back to for hunting.

You're doing well. Ditto on not calling till you are ready to shoot. Animals are dumb but most of them learn to avoid calls or be super cautious after they get fooled a few times, and some of them learn after one session.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: Little Fish on July 13, 2015, 05:30:51 PM: I would not necessarily rule out buying a permit to access timber company land. Lots of land on the West side is controlled by timber companies and they have lots of clears cuts and clear cuts = animals.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 13, 2015, 09:41:29 PM: Quote from: Okanagan on July 13, 2015, 03:54:13 PM
Sounds like a very successful scouting trip to me! ;) You learned roads, routes, that there are no clearcuts where Google says there are, a place to camp, quite a bit about public and private boundaries-- in other words you know a lot more about that area than you did. Some scouting trips I consider successful have simply ruled out an area as a place I would never go back to for hunting.

You're doing well. Ditto on not calling till you are ready to shoot. Animals are dumb but most of them learn to avoid calls or be super cautious after they get fooled a few times, and some of them learn after one session.
:yeah:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: steelnducks on July 14, 2015, 05:48:21 AM: Yeah it's nice to see elk when scouting but the best place I ever found I didn't see one elk scouting the area. I just found a bunch of rubs and saw some other promising sign. When September came the Bulls were screaming and my scouting payed off.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: fishngamereaper on July 14, 2015, 06:32:47 AM: Most animals move at night this time of year. If your hot in a t shirt think of how an elk feels with heavy hide and hair. Like others said learn roads and areas and don't focus on seeing animals.

Most trail cams are cheaper than a tank of gas. Buy a couple, set them and let them soak for a month or so. Its actually a cheaper way to scout than driving around every weekend looking for animals.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: 4fletch on July 14, 2015, 09:36:23 AM: I don't use cameras but I have read where one guy uses tree steps high enough so its hard to reach. Cows will talk back to you anytime of the year. If you find elk tracks you have found elk. Also find elk rubs they will usually come back to the same place or close too
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: MLhunter1 on July 14, 2015, 07:00:13 PM: Sounds like a successful scouting trip to me. You checked a spot off the map. I wouldn't call either now.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: mazama on July 14, 2015, 08:08:27 PM: My ex lives in that unit,most of the land is timber company,by the time I learned her property the elk moved off because of logging,when it starts raining logging will pickup in the last year they have started to actively log all over, she sees them about once a month in fields or crossing in front of her.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 16, 2015, 02:03:22 PM: Sounds like a successful scouting trip.

They don't always end in good stuff, sometimes you have to get out to find out that the area sucks and you need to find somewhere else.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: huntingbaldguy on July 17, 2015, 09:06:52 AM: It's not always about seeing elk, just elk sign. Tracks, game trails, droppings, watering holes, etc.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 17, 2015, 09:08:59 AM: For what it's worth, I would say there is no "unsuccessful scouting"

As long as you're not scouting the day prior to the opener :dunno:
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: fisheral87 on July 17, 2015, 04:58:52 PM: I did not start hunting until college, I can relate to your frustration.

Learn the ground.

Al
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 18, 2015, 11:38:07 AM: Quote from: fisheral87 on July 17, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
I did not start hunting until college, I can relate to your frustration.

Learn the ground.

Al
One of the things I got attitude about from posts in the past.
I started hunting as an uneducated HOMELESS minor that was tired of eating fish.
I learned from books, magazines, trial and error, and from older guys that would drive me out to the woods for gas money.
I spent many years being unsuccessful.
But even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while, and persistence will win out over luck.
Nobody is going to tell you where to go (other than C-post) and when you end up in "their" spot they will be upset, but if you find it on your own.. then you belong.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: wooltie on July 20, 2015, 12:18:51 PM: Scout the appropriate contours of a given area to look for trails, even faint trails.

Trails will exists if animals use the area, based upon my short experience.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2015, 12:57:44 PM: Scouting with calls in July is going to be frustrating. They are not going to be vocal for at least another month. Cow talk will work, but talk is a social activity and not a long range behavior.

This time of year scouting coastal elk is just reasonable in production. Futile as you go east. Best bets when scouting elk this time of year is circling feeding areas. Walk the fire trails of clear cuts. Be sure to cover the entire perimeter of these areas. Mark down entry trails with fresh sign. You don't need to see elk for a successful early scout trip. Once you find those trails you can look at maps and usually tell whether they are entrance or escape trails.

In this heat they won't spend but an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening out in the open. And you don't really want to be busting the timber looking for hair and getting them spooked before the season starts. So just cover ground compiling data on crossings, trails, entrances and pure volume of tracks/sign.

Also look for old rubs. Probably more than a few weeks away from new rubs for this year. I see most about the 15th of August. But if there were bulls in there last year then odds are pretty good the bulls will be there this August/September. And with those bulls...Cows!

Scouting is all about data collection. First trips should be to find "Concentrations" Then as the season gets closer and the elk begin to become more vocal and their testicles begin to drop then it will be time to look for hair and judging of antler size if you want to pick a particular trophy. If "any bull" or "any elk" is the goal then the scouting remains as a search for "elk concentrations" without much worry for visual confirmation of hair and horn.
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: wooltie on July 20, 2015, 01:04:42 PM: Quote from: RadSav on July 20, 2015, 12:57:44 PM
Scouting with calls in July is going to be frustrating. They are not going to be vocal for at least another month. Cow talk will work, but talk is a social activity and not a long range behavior.

This time of year scouting coastal elk is just reasonable in production. Futile as you go east. Best bets when scouting elk this time of year is circling feeding areas. Walk the fire trails of clear cuts. Be sure to cover the entire perimeter of these areas. Mark down entry trails with fresh sign. You don't need to see elk for a successful early scout trip. Once you find those trails you can look at maps and usually tell whether they are entrance or escape trails.

In this heat they won't spend but an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening out in the open. And you don't really want to be busting the timber looking for hair and getting them spooked before the season starts. So just cover ground compiling data on crossings, trails, entrances and pure volume of tracks/sign.

Also look for old rubs. Probably more than a few weeks away from new rubs for this year. I see most about the 15th of August. But if there were bulls in there last year then odds are pretty good the bulls will be there this August/September. And with those bulls...Cows!

Scouting is all about data collection. First trips should be to find "Concentrations" Then as the season gets closer and the elk begin to become more vocal and their testicles begin to drop then it will be time to look for hair and judging of antler size if you want to pick a particular trophy. If "any bull" or "any elk" is the goal then the scouting remains as a search for "elk concentrations" without much worry for visual confirmation of hair and horn.

sav--

would you expect to see cows in large groups this time of year? Like 10+ cows?

Or are the cows more dispersed, in smaller groups?

Perhaps a mix of both?
Title: Re: unsuccessful scouting
Post by: RadSav on July 20, 2015, 01:59:29 PM: Should be nursery groups this time of year. Staying together rather tight on the coast for a few weeks more until the calves get stronger and more able to accept variable feed types. Lactating cows will have feed limitations too during this same time frame. 10+ cows would not be uncommon. Seldom will you see the larger groups like you would in February thru April, though. Should see some spikes that are having difficulty leaving the family unit.