Post by: huntnfmly on July 31, 2015, 06:33:04 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 06:40:03 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 08:48:35 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 31, 2015, 08:49:35 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2015, 08:51:28 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 31, 2015, 08:55:50 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 31, 2015, 08:57:38 AM
Just salt? I don't see how that shows any intent to hunt bears with the use of bait, since salt doesn't attract bears.
I've got dozens of pictures of bears eating salt.
:dunno:
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 09:02:29 AM
Just salt? I don't see how that shows any intent to hunt bears with the use of bait, since salt doesn't attract bears.
I've got dozens of pictures of bears eating salt.
:dunno:
Okay, we'll maybe they do, but it's not really a bait that people use specifically for bears.
If I had an area where I wanted to hunt bears, I sure wouldn't NOT hunt it, just because someone else has a camera with some deer and elk bait.
Don't hunt directly over the bait and you should be fine.
Post by: Timberstalker on July 31, 2015, 09:20:17 AM
Just salt? I don't see how that shows any intent to hunt bears with the use of bait, since salt doesn't attract bears.
I've got dozens of pictures of bears eating salt.
:dunno:
Okay, we'll maybe they do, but it's not really a bait that people use specifically for bears.
If I had an area where I wanted to hunt bears, I sure wouldn't NOT hunt it, just because someone else has a camera with some deer and elk bait.
Don't hunt directly over the bait and you should be fine.
You have a lot of faith.
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 09:24:29 AM
Post by: rtspring on July 31, 2015, 09:39:04 AM
For sure now that you know its there. Remember you have to PROVE your innocent in the court of law. Although it may seem like no big deal, a gamie catching you near it would cite you.
Just not worth it. I dont agree with the stupidity of it, but I would move away 1 for the bait and 2 someone else is there..
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 09:54:06 AM
Post by: rtspring on July 31, 2015, 09:58:56 AM
Call me crazy but I would still hunt it but just avoid the area closest to the camera. I don't see how I could get in trouble shooting a bear close to a camera that wasn't even mine. The gamie would have to know it is there and how the heck would they be able to prove you even knew it was there?
Thats it right there! He or she dont have to prove anything for a citation. But you would have to spend your money to prove you had nothing to do with it.. Thats a fact... Yes you would win in court, but is it worth your money?
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 10:01:56 AM
Call me crazy but I would still hunt it but just avoid the area closest to the camera. I don't see how I could get in trouble shooting a bear close to a camera that wasn't even mine. The gamie would have to know it is there and how the heck would they be able to prove you even knew it was there?
Thats it right there! He or she dont have to prove anything for a citation. But you would have to spend your money to prove you had nothing to do with it.. Thats a fact... Yes you would win in court, but is it worth your money?
How could they even write you a citation was my point? First, its not your camera or bait station and second, how can they say with any remote confidence that you knew it was there unless you told them? If it was my camera for elk that would be a totally different story. I mean heck, I am sure a lot of us have hunted very close to cameras over bait we didn't know was there....
Post by: huntnfmly on July 31, 2015, 10:13:36 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
The reality is they don't have to prove anything to cite you. If you then choose to fight it and go to court, evidence would need to be provided.Call me crazy but I would still hunt it but just avoid the area closest to the camera. I don't see how I could get in trouble shooting a bear close to a camera that wasn't even mine. The gamie would have to know it is there and how the heck would they be able to prove you even knew it was there?
Thats it right there! He or she dont have to prove anything for a citation. But you would have to spend your money to prove you had nothing to do with it.. Thats a fact... Yes you would win in court, but is it worth your money?
How could they even write you a citation was my point? First, its not your camera or bait station and second, how can they say with any remote confidence that you knew it was there unless you told them? If it was my camera for elk that would be a totally different story. I mean heck, I am sure a lot of us have hunted very close to cameras over bait we didn't know was there....
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 10:40:57 AM
The reality is they don't have to prove anything to cite you. If you then choose to fight it and go to court, evidence would need to be provided.Call me crazy but I would still hunt it but just avoid the area closest to the camera. I don't see how I could get in trouble shooting a bear close to a camera that wasn't even mine. The gamie would have to know it is there and how the heck would they be able to prove you even knew it was there?
Thats it right there! He or she dont have to prove anything for a citation. But you would have to spend your money to prove you had nothing to do with it.. Thats a fact... Yes you would win in court, but is it worth your money?
How could they even write you a citation was my point? First, its not your camera or bait station and second, how can they say with any remote confidence that you knew it was there unless you told them? If it was my camera for elk that would be a totally different story. I mean heck, I am sure a lot of us have hunted very close to cameras over bait we didn't know was there....
I guess it would be worth the risk to me unless I had better spots to hunt. I have only seen one game warden in the field when I wasn't driving and that was out duck hunting so the odds of me actually killing a bear that ends up close to the bait station AND having a warden there to witness it are pretty darn low.
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 10:47:54 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 10:53:01 AM
The question of whether or not one might hunt there is different than the OP’s question of whether or not it is legal.
Understood. I guess I still believe it is 100% legal but that is strictly my opinion
Post by: notellumcreek on July 31, 2015, 11:01:02 AM
I would think if you are 100 yds from the site and shoot a bear that it would be quite the BS move for a gamey to cite you, especially if it wasn't yours.
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 11:01:19 AM
I don’t believe it is so clearly legal that the chance of being cited is zero.
If the odds of being successful were high, and the chance of being detected was low, and I truly believed that the bait was not attracting bears I might hunt there.
Post by: Stein on July 31, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Quote
“Bait” means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.
If it were me, I would call up the area's game warden and ask the question how far away I needed to be to comply.
Post by: luckyman on July 31, 2015, 11:05:21 AM
Post by: WALLEYEGUY on July 31, 2015, 11:16:34 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on July 31, 2015, 11:38:04 AM
My somewhat educated speculation is that different enforcement officers would view the situation differently. Depending on the specific circumstances, history of the area, and other factors one officer might cite, and one might not.
I don’t believe it is so clearly legal that the chance of being cited is zero.
If the odds of being successful were high, and the chance of being detected was low, and I truly believed that the bait was not attracting bears I might hunt there.
:yeah: :yeah:
Post by: ghosthunter on July 31, 2015, 11:46:23 AM
So I walk through after dark and do a little corn seeding. Than drop a dime.
Boom no more competition. :yike:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 31, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
I wouldn't after opening your mouth about it.:yeah: Have to remember one thing ..The people who get caught are either turning themselves in or someone else is ..learn to keep to yourself and things will be a lot better ..I am slowly learning too :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Machias on July 31, 2015, 12:28:19 PM
Just salt? I don't see how that shows any intent to hunt bears with the use of bait, since salt doesn't attract bears.
Ah bears LOVE salt blocks!
If the salt block influences the bears behavior, 100 yards or on top of it, you can be cited. It's just the way it is. Time and distance have no real bearing, no pun intended. If the placement of the bait or substance influences the bears travel or behavior, you can be cited. And you never know when or where someone else has already reported that salt block or bait station. If this was a defense for getting out of baiting it would be so easy to abuse it. Me and a partner decide to bait bears in WA. I establish a bait site "for deer and elk". 5 miles away my partner establishes his bait site for deer and elk. We see that the bears have taken over both bait sites and are hammering them. Bears like to leave well defined trails in and out of a bait station. I put my stand on a trail a hundred yards away from my buddies bait site and he puts his stand 100 yards away from my bait site. 2 dead bears and I never once bait that location and he never baited my location.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 31, 2015, 12:38:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 12:43:37 PM
Post by: Machias on July 31, 2015, 12:47:04 PM
There is bait all over the place. If you can't hunt bears just because someone might have bait in an area, that means you can't hunt bears anywhere. Dumb. Hunt bears wherever you want. And I do have faith in most game wardens. They're not out there looking to pinch someone for walking in the woods with a rifle and a best tag in their pocket, when they happen to be near someone else's bait.
You might want to have a conversation with one, might be a bit eye opening to you. I did just that a couple of years ago as well as the lady who prosecutes for the state, they were more of a mindset of charging and let's see where this goes. Most guys do not have the resources and plead down. It's just the reality.
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2015, 12:49:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 12:52:07 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2015, 12:53:56 PM
I'm not too worried. I've never seen a game warden out in the woods anyway. Ever seen Rugged Justice? :chuckle:
:chuckle: Gotta agree with that too. I have never seen one in the woods either. Then again I don't hunt with BH45
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 12:54:53 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 31, 2015, 12:56:33 PM
A guy can't really know what's just over the knob, is there a barrel full of doughnuts and dogfood 100 yards away? :dunno:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 31, 2015, 12:57:22 PM
I'm not too worried. I've never seen a game warden out in the woods anyway. Ever seen Rugged Justice? :chuckle:Only seen one during bear season, and I really think the guy was having an acid trip.
Post by: rtspring on July 31, 2015, 12:59:09 PM
I'm not too worried. I've never seen a game warden out in the woods anyway. Ever seen Rugged Justice? :chuckle:
:chuckle: Gotta agree with that too. I have never seen one in the woods either. Then again I don't hunt with BH45
It only takes that 1 time to really mess up your life! It can and does happen.
I'm not into taking chances..
Like always people talk tough on here! ( not directed at anyone in particular) but until you have dealt with these gamies in a bad way you just wont ever understand that it CAN HAPPEN.
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 01:00:22 PM
So for those of you worried about hunting near someone else's bait, you better not even buy a bear tag, because there's no way to know where someone might have bait. Even if you're 10 miles from it, tha could be considered hunting over bait. :rolleyes:There's a difference between hunting an area you know is baited, and hunting an area without any known bait.
Post by: MtnMuley on July 31, 2015, 01:02:18 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 01:02:34 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 01:03:40 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 01:05:17 PM
So for those of you worried about hunting near someone else's bait, you better not even buy a bear tag, because there's no way to know where someone might have bait. Even if you're 10 miles from it, tha could be considered hunting over bait. :rolleyes:There's a difference between hunting an area you know is baited, and hunting an area without any known bait.
True, but I'm not sure why you'd tell a game warden that you knew about someone else's bait in an area that you were hunting bears.
Post by: Woodchuck on July 31, 2015, 01:06:04 PM
Post by: bigtex on July 31, 2015, 01:06:48 PM
The officer and the prosecutor would have to prove that the salt was placed there for the purpose of attracting bears to an area where someone intends to hunt them. And this is always the sticking point for successful prosecution.
If someone is putting apples out for deer and it's the opening day of archery deer season and a bear walks in can you then legally shoot the bear? Well by the law you did not place the apples in the area for bear, but rather for deer. Now if you shoot the bear and around the corner walks the WDFW Officer are you going to have some explaining to do? You betcha.
In 2012 all fish and wildlife crimes became mandatory court appearances. But even before then bear baiting was already a mandatory court appearance (one of the few F&W offenses that at that time was a mandatory), it wasn't a ticket with a fine.
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 01:08:05 PM
"bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them. RCW 77.15.245
The officer and the prosecutor would have to prove that the salt was placed there for the purpose of attracting bears to an area where someone intends to hunt them. And this is always the sticking point for successful prosecution.
If someone is putting apples out for deer and it's the opening day of archery deer season and a bear walks in can you then legally shoot the bear? Well by the law you did not place the apples in the area for bear, but rather for deer. Now if you shoot the bear and around the corner walks the WDFW Officer are you going to have some explaining to do? You betcha.
In 2012 all fish and wildlife crimes became mandatory court appearances. But even before then bear baiting was already a mandatory court appearance (one of the few F&W offenses that at that time was a mandatory), it wasn't a ticket with a fine.
What about if you weren't even the one that put the bait down and you were just near it? Thanks for chiming in btw. Was hoping you would
Post by: bigtex on July 31, 2015, 01:13:24 PM
Good question. The law does not specify who placed the bait, simply that bait was placed for the purpose of hunting bear. Otherwise I could have my wife put out bread and molasses for me so I could bait bear."bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them. RCW 77.15.245What about if you weren't even the one that put the bait down and you were just near it? Thanks for chiming in btw. Was hoping you would
The officer and the prosecutor would have to prove that the salt was placed there for the purpose of attracting bears to an area where someone intends to hunt them. And this is always the sticking point for successful prosecution.
If someone is putting apples out for deer and it's the opening day of archery deer season and a bear walks in can you then legally shoot the bear? Well by the law you did not place the apples in the area for bear, but rather for deer. Now if you shoot the bear and around the corner walks the WDFW Officer are you going to have some explaining to do? You betcha.
In 2012 all fish and wildlife crimes became mandatory court appearances. But even before then bear baiting was already a mandatory court appearance (one of the few F&W offenses that at that time was a mandatory), it wasn't a ticket with a fine.
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 01:15:21 PM
Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 01:17:07 PM
Hunting over bait is wrong.Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
Post by: MtnMuley on July 31, 2015, 01:18:05 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 01:20:10 PM
Hunting over bait is wrong.Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
I wasn't talking about hunting over bait. Just hunting near someone else's bait. Could be two or three miles from the bait.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 31, 2015, 01:20:50 PM
Illegal, not necessarily wrong.Hunting over bait is wrong.Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2015, 01:21:22 PM
Post by: rtspring on July 31, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
Post by: Woodchuck on July 31, 2015, 01:24:04 PM
Oh I understand that. I am just saying that some may have a sense of integrity that drives them to answer honestly when asked. If I know I am wrong I will tell you. That's all.Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 01:26:18 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!
I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. :twocents:
Post by: rtspring on July 31, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!
I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. :twocents:
I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot. Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue. But we both know what SOME would do!!
Post by: NINEX19 on July 31, 2015, 01:43:26 PM
So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!
I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. :twocents:
I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot. Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue. But we both know what SOME would do!!
Not trying to argue at all and I am the same way in that I don't step on toes. Its just that with the amount of cameras and bait sites these days, if you left the area of every bait site you found you could really hose yourself. I also tend to hunt away from where most people go and almost all my camera encounters are well before I get to my hunting area or on my hike out. :tup:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 31, 2015, 01:45:48 PM
I thought about starting a new topic, but I think this fits in with this one.I think you're good. You didn't plant the huckleberries in the woods, but can hunt them.
So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.
Post by: MtnMuley on July 31, 2015, 01:48:41 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!
I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. :twocents:
I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot. Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue. But we both know what SOME would do!!
Not trying to argue at all and I am the same way in that I don't step on toes. Its just that with the amount of cameras and bait sites these days, if you left the area of every bait site you found you could really hose yourself. I also tend to hunt away from where most people go and almost all my camera encounters are well before I get to my hunting area or on my hike out. :tup:
Boy, that's pretty condracticting. :twocents:
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 01:59:31 PM
I thought about starting a new topic, but I think this fits in with this one.Is any of this true? It doesn't sound like it to me.
So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.
' "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.'
Post by: MtnMuley on July 31, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
I thought about starting a new topic, but I think this fits in with this one.
So there is certain orchard in E. WA where the bears year after year are destroying trees. I have been invited to hunt there by the owner.
Would that be considered baiting or hunting over bait? I at first thought not, but I am now questioning it.
I did not plant the trees and they were not put there for attracting any wildlife, but owners report bear there on a weekly basis at least.
You can hunt in the orchard all you want. Happens all the time here. If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation. He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here. :twocents:
Post by: vandeman17 on July 31, 2015, 02:06:47 PM
I wouldn't hunt it but because somebody else is and not because of the bait :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about right there. :tup:
You wouldn't hunt bears close to it since someone else might be hunting elk there later? Not me. If I was elk hunting and thought they would be too I would find a new area but not if I was hunting a different species in a different season. :twocents:
What I'm saying is that if I run across another hunters bait pile regardless of the animal he's baiting, I won't hunt around it at anytime. :hello:
Exactly! Why step on someones spot.
So putting out bait and a camera means that other guys won't hunt my spot? Sweet! I am just going to put 10 cameras out so I can have a whole basin to myself!
I am exaggerating here but I think you see my point. Would I set up and sit over another guy's bait site, heck no. Would I even set up with a few hundred yards, most likely not but am I going to leave the area entirely because some guy has a camera and some salt out? Nope. :twocents:
I get what your saying. I would just wander off to another spot. Luckily few go where I go so for me I doubt it will ever be an issue. But we both know what SOME would do!!
Not trying to argue at all and I am the same way in that I don't step on toes. Its just that with the amount of cameras and bait sites these days, if you left the area of every bait site you found you could really hose yourself. I also tend to hunt away from where most people go and almost all my camera encounters are well before I get to my hunting area or on my hike out. :tup:
Boy, that's pretty condracticting. :twocents:
How so? Pretty cut and dry :twocents:
Post by: NINEX19 on July 31, 2015, 02:10:46 PM
Quote
You can hunt in the orchard all you want. Happens all the time here. If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation. He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here.
I am from the "wet" side, so was not aware of hunting in this type of situation, as I have never gone for bear in E. WA. Its not like it is in the "woods". This does attract bears in a more populated area.
This is a genuine question. From the report of the owner, it will almost be like shooting fish in a barrel. (which has its own "ethical" issues for another thread)
Post by: h20hunter on July 31, 2015, 02:11:38 PM
Post by: h20hunter on July 31, 2015, 02:16:03 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on July 31, 2015, 02:20:36 PM
QuoteYou can hunt in the orchard all you want. Happens all the time here. If it were me, I'd call the local warden and tell him the situation. He is probably already aware, as bears in orchards have always been issues here.
I am from the "wet" side, so was not aware of hunting in this type of situation, as I have never gone for bear in E. WA. Its not like it is in the "woods". This does attract bears in a more populated area.
This is a genuine question. From the report of the owner, it will almost be like shooting fish in a barrel. (which has its own "ethical" issues for another thread)
Sometimes certain orchards will draw bears, sometimes they won't. Depends on their food sources and with this year a lot of their other food sources drying up early, I'd guess the orchards will get hit pretty hard. As far as ethical goes, to each their own. As long as it's legal, do what you want is the common theme.
Post by: tgomez on July 31, 2015, 05:13:07 PM
This is a scary deal... In reality it would not be worth the hell gamies would put you through!!!I thought it was INNOCENT until proven GUILTY? :dunno:
For sure now that you know its there. Remember you have to PROVE your innocent in the court of law. Although it may seem like no big deal, a gamie catching you near it would cite you.
Just not worth it. I dont agree with the stupidity of it, but I would move away 1 for the bait and 2 someone else is there..
Post by: RadSav on July 31, 2015, 05:20:52 PM
This is a scary deal... In reality it would not be worth the hell gamies would put you through!!!I thought it was INNOCENT until proven GUILTY? :dunno:
For sure now that you know its there. Remember you have to PROVE your innocent in the court of law. Although it may seem like no big deal, a gamie catching you near it would cite you.
Just not worth it. I dont agree with the stupidity of it, but I would move away 1 for the bait and 2 someone else is there..
You must not know anyone who has been wrongfully charged with a game violation! :chuckle:
Post by: tgomez on July 31, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 31, 2015, 07:59:14 PM
Unfortunately too often in this state walking on a paved road, just like you do every day, can be a sign of guilt if an animal has been poached there in the past 24 hours. Even with the witness of your employer, that you were at work during the poaching, you are still guilty until proven innocent. Simply by walking a road like you do every single day! Witnesses to the contrary of guilt and absolutely zero evidence ends up not being seen as innocent until proven guilty. If the officer assumes your guilt you are guilty. No more investigation, case closed, end of story, we got 'em! You must then hire an attorney, empty your bank account, get a second mortgage on your house and "Prove Your Innocence" in the court of law! Innocent until proven guilty is a wives tale told to children to make them sleep better at night ;)
Post by: Bob33 on July 31, 2015, 08:45:23 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on July 31, 2015, 09:03:58 PM
Integrity?
Huh? All you're required to do is show your hunting license. Why would you volunteer information that could be used against you, even though you did nothing wrong?
+1. Shut up and lawyer up! Especially if they're just out on a money making binge. :tup:
The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said "I like writing tickets" :o
Post by: RadSav on August 01, 2015, 06:24:07 AM
The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said "I like writing tickets" :o
We had a gamie from Duvall tell us that ALL hunters are breaking the law. And it was his responsibility to figure out just which law we were breaking. That's one heck of a way to go about your job, don't you think? An hour later he gave up searching our vehicle, checking our bows and wasting our time. As he left he told us he didn't want to see us up there again. What?!?
In that case I guess we were guilty until really guilty!
Another time up Stevens Pass back when there was only a one bear limit I took the wife bear hunting after I had tagged out. Gamie and Gamie junior stopped us on the road headed in to our spot. Both badgered the wife for over half an hour. Saying things like, "You can't really shoot that gun, can you? Just admit you are just along so your husband can kill a second bear. You know that .257 Roberts is not a lethal weapon for hunting bear, we should confiscate that right here right now!..." The wife to this day remains mad about that stop!
No doubt in my mind that if we had a bear in the truck I would have been found guilty of shooting it somehow!
To be fair - While these King County and SnoCo harassments are just a whisper of the many similar run ins we have had, our bad experiences have really only been in the Westside between Hwy 2 and I-90. Gamies around Lake Wenatchee, Colville, PeEll, Crab Creek, Klickitat, Vancouver, Winston and Cougar have been rather outstanding. The guy out in Klickitat spent a lot of time with me making sure I knew exactly where the res boundary was since my map was marked wrong. And he didn't do that to keep me out of trouble. He did that because he thought I would have better luck finding turkey there. Because of that gamie I now have a killer turkey spot in Klickitat!
But the reality of guilty until proven innocent is very real today. Of the people I know who have been wrongfully charged in this state there was zero investigation before being found guilty by the officers. Each and every one was a simple case of wrong place/wrong time. And in each of those cases there was clear evidence and credible witnesses to the fact the officers made a mistake. It was not until a check was written to a hot shot lawyer that any investigation was conducted. Not one single penny of those lawyer costs were ever reimbursed! If that's not Guilty until proven innocent, what is?
Though it sure would be nice to be a young know it all and live in a world where fairy tales were true ;)
Post by: tgomez on August 01, 2015, 09:06:27 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on August 01, 2015, 09:33:41 PM
U need evidence in a court of law, either physical or testimonial. But what do I know? I only study criminal justice 5 days a week for the last year at Spokane Community College. And by the way I've made honor roll for all 4 quarters. If your going to slam wardens, atleast know what your talking about. :chuckle:
No offense intended by what I am about to say, but while you have "studied it" in a classroom for the past year, I lived it in the real world outside the "Polly Anna" world of academics for over 20 years.
While the letter of the law says innocent until...the reality of it really is far different. Especially in the area of game violations. The common thread amongst the game department seems to be along the lines of, "If we got you this time, how many times didn't we get you?" Therefore you are very unlikely to get away with just a warning...
Take foreinstance the WDFW seizing a weapon, or any property for that matter. While there is a process to go through, why should an "Innocent" person have to anything to get their property back before they have had their day in court over the original charge?
RTSpring went through this same thing a while back, was several threads on it, and he has commented in this thread about how "innocent" you are considered during the process. Take his warnings to heart, you don't want to ever be in that situation, either by design or accident.
Not trying to slam you or your future profession, but just be mindfull, things presented in the classroom are seldom what they are outside in the real world...
Good luck, hopefully you get to where you want to be!!
Post by: tgomez on August 01, 2015, 10:32:10 PM
2.Rifle?
3.Deer carcass?
Look what I'm getting to is this, people automatically want to give wardens a bad wrap because of our fellow hunters being jealous of our success, or either being "BLOOD THIRSTY FOR THAT 10 POINTS." I've meet a few stern wardens myself in my 20 years of hunting, but I have meet a few very helpful and friendly ones as well. And you could say the same for any proffession right? Thanks for your opinion though, and belive me when I say I take no offense to it. As I always say opinions are like a bag of arse holes! They ALL stink, including mine. If you feel that way, I hope to meet you in the future, and help you some way when you may need it. Peace and Love, God Bless! :tup:
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 01, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
A game watering area. Illegal!
An orchard? Illegal!
A berry patch? Illegal!
A logging road? Illegal!
The RCW make no concession for the how or why something attracts a bear, that is baiting, according to the law.
All a bunch of cr@* in my opinion. This is a poorly written and intentioned law mandated by an ignorant and hostile populace for misguided and incorrect reasons.
Post by: tgomez on August 01, 2015, 11:14:16 PM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 01, 2015, 11:24:25 PM
I never said there wasn't a bad apple in the bunch. That's part of the reason I want to change peoples perception of peace officers and wildlife officals in general. If you didn't need evidence my friend than I could theoretically call a game warden and say I saw you shoot a deer today in your truck then drive away. But what really happend was I saw you at Safeway and I didn't like the way you took my parking spot, so I took down your licence plate and gave that as info. Now magically your booked, done deal. Sorry, but this is where you need the evidence. 1.RecoveredBullet/fragments?That's all fine and dandy, but in practice having someone call in a violation is entirely different than a gamie making a stop or doing a check and citing some perceived violation. Once you are cited you now have to prove your innocence because the citation is the perceived proof of guilt. My few experiences with game officers have been mixed, most positive but enough with guys on a power trip that are looking for anything they can make into a citation when there is no reason to think otherwise.
2.Rifle?
3.Deer carcass?
Look what I'm getting to is this, people automatically want to give wardens a bad wrap because of our fellow hunters being jealous of our success, or either being "BLOOD THIRSTY FOR THAT 10 POINTS." I've meet a few stern wardens myself in my 20 years of hunting, but I have meet a few very helpful and friendly ones as well. And you could say the same for any proffession right? Thanks for your opinion though, and belive me when I say I take no offense to it. As I always say opinions are like a bag of arse holes! They ALL stink, including mine. If you feel that way, I hope to meet you in the future, and help you some way when you may need it. Peace and Love, God Bless! :tup:
Post by: tgomez on August 02, 2015, 08:44:08 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 02, 2015, 09:01:21 AM
Post by: grundy53 on August 02, 2015, 01:34:04 PM
I bet I have met that game warden in Duvall that you speak of. Met him a few. Times. A real unpleasant guy. Had one real bad run in with him. He definitely doesn't shed a good light on his profession.The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said "I like writing tickets" :o
We had a gamie from Duvall tell us that ALL hunters are breaking the law. And it was his responsibility to figure out just which law we were breaking. That's one heck of a way to go about your job, don't you think? An hour later he gave up searching our vehicle, checking our bows and wasting our time. As he left he told us he didn't want to see us up there again. What?!?
In that case I guess we were guilty until really guilty!
Another time up Stevens Pass back when there was only a one bear limit I took the wife bear hunting after I had tagged out. Gamie and Gamie junior stopped us on the road headed in to our spot. Both badgered the wife for over half an hour. Saying things like, "You can't really shoot that gun, can you? Just admit you are just along so your husband can kill a second bear. You know that .257 Roberts is not a lethal weapon for hunting bear, we should confiscate that right here right now!..." The wife to this day remains mad about that stop!
No doubt in my mind that if we had a bear in the truck I would have been found guilty of shooting it somehow!
To be fair - While these King County and SnoCo harassments are just a whisper of the many similar run ins we have had, our bad experiences have really only been in the Westside between Hwy 2 and I-90. Gamies around Lake Wenatchee, Colville, PeEll, Crab Creek, Klickitat, Vancouver, Winston and Cougar have been rather outstanding. The guy out in Klickitat spent a lot of time with me making sure I knew exactly where the res boundary was since my map was marked wrong. And he didn't do that to keep me out of trouble. He did that because he thought I would have better luck finding turkey there. Because of that gamie I now have a killer turkey spot in Klickitat!
But the reality of guilty until proven innocent is very real today. Of the people I know who have been wrongfully charged in this state there was zero investigation before being found guilty by the officers. Each and every one was a simple case of wrong place/wrong time. And in each of those cases there was clear evidence and credible witnesses to the fact the officers made a mistake. It was not until a check was written to a hot shot lawyer that any investigation was conducted. Not one single penny of those lawyer costs were ever reimbursed! If that's not Guilty until proven innocent, what is?
Though it sure would be nice to be a young know it all and live in a world where fairy tales were true ;)