Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Coyote, Small Game, Varmints => Topic started by: demontang on January 11, 2009, 12:45:55 PM
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Well I grabbed my AR foxpro and loaded Bear (my dog) and went out coyote hunting. I got out and set up at 5:40am and started to call. Bear was great with it being dark he would alert me of a coyote. I managed to call in 10 coyote's this morning but only got one shot. During the dark hours every time I got on a coyote and was ready to shot they would take off running. The one I got a shot at was intersting, I was set up with a elk fence about 20yd's to my left and the foxpro about 50yd's out in front of me and Bear laying down to my left. I was calling for about 10min when I saw something move to my left, a coyote had came from behind us and walk up with in 5 yd's of Bear and I. The coyote was looking at my dog and I slowly set down my shooting sticks and started to turn when Bear got up and the coyote took off. I didn't have a shot tell he stopped broad side at 200yd's looking back at us when I took a shot and missed >:( I need to start carring a camera so I can get a 1/2point since I cant hit the broad side of a barn lately.
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That's interesting you said you took your dog yote hunting. I've see a couple similar stories here and there, and I think in a predator Magazine about how having a dog with you can help with some of the educated yotes out there. From what they said, the alpha male and female will see the dog and come after it for being in their territory, so fast they are oblivious to anything else around. Have you seen this. I was thinking about doing it when our pup gets old enough.
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http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=apc&product_name=2+Dog
Here is a video on hunting coyotes with a decoy dog.
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Link does'nt work :(
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If you take your dog make sure it listens really well because a coyote can tear up a dog. I have only taken mine out once so far, I had him stay next to me in the thick stuff but let him roam in the open and I saw a lot of coyotes today in only 3hr's. I have seen coyotes come in running to a dog, the coyotes today seem to be scared of Bear but he is a shepherd mix and weighs in at 100lb.
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Ive seen a few coyotes work a dog. A single dog wont have much of a chance against 2 or 3 coyotes. Youve seen how they work other stuff, the dog I saw got done the same way. One comes from the back, dog turns, another gets the dog from behind etc. I saw this when I lived in Ohio. After I saw this I can see how a kid wouldnt have good odds against a couple coyotes. If they were brave enough they could probably take a grown man with a few coyotes.
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Yeah its not good when coyotes pack up, they became a force that I wouldnt want to tango with with out a weapon.
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If you look on Varmint Al's website you'll see that he takes his black lab Bart out with him. . .he keeps him on a VERY short leash to keep him from getting in front of the gun though. . .I've been toying with the idea in the hopes that it might increase my odd's at getting a dog out here on the wet-side, but the dog that listens is gun shy and the dog that isn't gun shy has been acting like an idiot lately. . .won't listen and generally just acts dumber than a box of rocks. . .maybe she's getting senile???
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Ya I saw three of em try to gang up on my dog one night but hes a pretty good sized dog and was giving them hell basically flinging them around....Im sure they would have wore him out but I saved him ;)
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Thtas generally the game plan, get them worn down and tired.
My dogs a wuss. He's been inside his whole life with his own sleeping bag to sleep on. He likes to run outside with me, he'll kick up rabbits or birds, but I dont think he'd have much of a chance against yotes. The neighbors cats on the other hand, I think theyd make great yote hunting companions.
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This idea about a using a dog as a decoy sounds interesting. I have an Akita that by all measures is a self confident dog. Gun shots, chainsaws, u name it it doesn't phase him. Tho because he has a devil of a prey drive, he is very well behaved, and obedient, just because of those attributes. Keeping him on a tether, confined to a small area, and having myself well camoed might work.
Any thoughts pro or con?
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I say go for it. . .just make sure you know where he is when you are shooting. . .Varmint Al loves using his lab because he knows a coyote is coming in long before he can see it, hear it, anything. . .he says Bart (his lab) starts a low growl as soon as he spots one. . .
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When I was a kid, I knew this guy who had a mated pair of German Shepherds, and we lived on the desert in Idaho, and he would take them out calling, turn the female loose, wait for the coyotes to show up and then turn the male loose on them. Kind of stupid but the point is that the dogs will bring them in close in a hurry.
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The video I saw with using your dog as a decoy was pretty interesting. The guy would let his dog run out about a hundred yards or so and basically just act as the decoy. When the dog or the hunter spotted a coyote coming in the dog was trained to bring the yote in closer and the guy got the shot. Pretty risky but the dog was extremely well trained and big enough to handle a coyote.
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http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=apc&product_name=2+Dog
Here is a video on hunting coyotes with a decoy dog.
Yep, a couple good ones at allpredatorcalls.
There are also numerous posts on predatormasters about this tactic.
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An akita would be a good dog for it if you train it well. They where breed for hunting and are big enough to hold there own if they have to. I don't know if I would tie my dog up just in case a yote manage to get mixed up with my dog I wouldn't want him at a disadvantage. I have my dog stay pretty close unless its real open and I can see anything that might come in.
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check out coyotegods.com those guys use airdales for coyotes in almost a cult like following.
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This could be a whole other thread, but what breed do you think would make the best coyote dog. Airedales and Akitas are both pretty brave (I knew a guy that used Airedales to hunt bear) and I've heard that Akitas just won't stop. Maybe a Rhodesian Ridgeback?
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There's a guy on PM that uses a Mountain Cur by the name of Bubba, He post's some good stories about using his dog hunting coyotes.
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I think a mix of what ever would work, All you really need is a smart well trained dog that could hold is own against a coyote for a short time if needed. German shepherds are great all around dogs and they seem to be very loyal and easy to train. I think if you mixed a shepherd with a akita you would have a great yote dog. :twocents:
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The breed depends on whether you want a dog that is a decoy to lure coyotes close to you, or do you want a dog that will run down and kill the coyote?
Small, fast, and aggressive dogs make the best decoy dogs. Small size does not intimidate a coyote, speed to not get caught when having a coyote chase them, and aggressive to goad a coyote into chasing them. I should add the ability to follow commands immediately. Think heelers and jack russells.
Hound hunters want bigger, aggressive dogs that can run fast and far, and have a decent nose. Many use the same type of dogs that hunt bear and cougar. Two of the best I have seen was a mean Irish Setter, and a greyhound/redbone mutt.
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Theres not to many dogs that can out run a coyote for speed. I think the biggest think is having a smart dog that know when its in trouble to run back to you. :chuckle:
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So maybe a whippet in heat? :chuckle: I think a healer or cattle dog is a good candidate. I think you run a risk trying to not tear up the pelt while keeping the dog from getting hurt or shot, two dog team sounds like a safer bet. Problem is they don't tree like a cat or bear. I have seen videos that make the point that coyotes are not smart, they are just reactive. They react to instinct, and you have to play on their instincts to eat or defend their territory, or self preserve. I think if you have a dog trained to bring them to where you want them, and then have an efficient way to kill them, without losing the dog-all the better.
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Theres not to many dogs that can out run a coyote for speed. I think the biggest think is having a smart dog that know when its in trouble to run back to you. :chuckle:
That is why you don't let a decoy dog too far from you.
They react to instinct, and you have to play on their instincts to eat or defend their territory, or self preserve.
You neiled it on the head with that statement. The most effective time to use a decoy dog is during the denning season.
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One of the funniest dog attacks (if you can call it that) was a german shepherd and a jack russell. The shepherd chased the russell around trying to eat it but couldnt catch it. The russell kept changing course and running in circles until the shepherd got tired and sjust stoof there with its tongue hanging out. You could tell that the spepherd was extremely POd about not getting the russell. Of course if he could have caught it he'd have killed it most likely easily.
Hunting coyotes though how many times do you run into calling three or more coyotes in at the same time. Even two really, two is more common than three but one usually.
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As mentioned earlier it would depend on what you want to do with the dog. . .
. . .Varmint Al uses his black lab Bart as a spotter. . .Bart is on a short leash right next to Al and he uses Bart's superior sense of smell, hearing, and eyesight to let him know a yote is coming in long before he would normally know. . .
As far as a dog that could hold it's own. . .an Akita shouldn't have a problem and a Rhodesian Ridgeback DEFINITELY wouldn't. . .the RR's were bred to hunt lion's in Africa. . .my Dad is a vet and I've seen them before. . .they are pretty big, very well built, very thick (but short) fur. . .also very docile with people and are intelligent/obedient/loyal as well. . .if I was gonna pick an all around dog to use for say bear, cougar, coons, and yote's I don't think you could go wrong with a RR. . .
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Curs make great decoy dogs. They are tough and smart enough to figure out what your asking them to do.
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My son has been using his chocolate lab for several years now, mostly for a spotter like Varmint Al, but it's done some "accidental" decoy work too. It works great as a spotter. I've borrowed it, and had it heeled while calling before and when it starts growling....you better be looking where he is... because there is a coyote coming! Sometimes, I don't know how it sees them, heck I can't hardly find them with binoculars! All I know is it works very well, especially when calling by yourself. A dog will always see and hear things that we cannot. All you really need is a dog that will obey the basic commands; come, sit, stay, and heel.
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Its funny how they know things like that. It seems supernatural sometimes, or maybe they see or smell things we dont notice that are closer than we thought.
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I know my dog was putting his nose to good work and was very alert of what was around us, I know he has great hearing too.
