Post by: emac on August 26, 2015, 03:17:53 PM
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Post by: cbond3318 on August 26, 2015, 03:19:38 PM
Post by: jkthomps on August 26, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
Q. Can a felon have a muzzleloader for hunting?
A. If the felon has had his/her rights restored through the court of sentencing, yes the felon may use a muzzleloader to hunt. If the felon has NOT had his/her rights restored through the court, then the felon may NOT possess a pistol, shotgun, muzzleloader, or other firearm. The felon can hunt with archery gear but not firearms.
Post by: bobcat on August 26, 2015, 03:28:11 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 26, 2015, 03:31:12 PM
By federal law a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm, so it may be okay for a felon to possess a muzzleloader in other states. But not in Washington. By state law they ARE considered to be a firearm. That's my understanding of it anyway.:yeah:
In a few other states felons can own muzzleloaders.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 26, 2015, 03:37:42 PM
By federal law a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm, so it may be okay for a felon to possess a muzzleloader in other states. But not in Washington. By state law they ARE considered to be a firearm. That's my understanding of it anyway.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010
Post by: Myrtle Creek Inc. on August 28, 2015, 10:34:19 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 28, 2015, 11:57:08 AM
By federal law a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm, so it may be okay for a felon to possess a muzzleloader in other states. But not in Washington. By state law they ARE considered to be a firearm. That's my understanding of it anyway.This is correct. When I worked for Wyoming Game and Fish, it was not uncommon to encounter felons hunting with muzzleloaders - including nonresidents from states where they could only legally archery hunt (like Washington).
Post by: CoyoteChuck52 on August 29, 2015, 11:40:39 PM
rights have to been reinstated if he is in possession here. Unlawful possession of a firearm otherwise(he would just be making a UTurn in life)
,under Federal law no 209' shotshell or centerfire primers or any explosive for that matter
Bow is fine for now but who knows what they are gonna want next. Its your guns today then your M/L then your bow , ye pocket knife then all the rocks...I guess some folks figure killing will stop at that point huh?...NOT
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 01, 2015, 09:39:10 AM
Quote
1. Can a person prohibited by law from possessing a firearm acquire and use a black powder muzzle loading firearm?https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) prohibits felons and certain other persons from possessing or receiving firearms and ammunition (“prohibited persons”). These categories can be found at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) and (n) in http://atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf.
However, Federal law does not prohibit these persons from possessing or receiving an antique firearm. The term “antique firearm” means any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898. The definition includes any replica of an antique firearm if it is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States, and which is not readily available in ordinary channels of commercial trade. Further, any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun, or pistol which is designed to use black powder or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition, is an “antique firearm” unless it (1) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (2) is a firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon; or (3) is a muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. See 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16).
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)
By contrast, a prohibited person may not receive or possess black powder firearms that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. ATF has classified certain muzzle loading models as firearms. All of these models incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting barrels designed to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. These muzzle loading models do not meet the definition of “antique firearm” as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16), and are “firearms” as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). Furthermore, as firearms, these and similar models, regardless of the barrel installed on the firearm or provided with the firearm, are subject to all provisions of the GCA. Persons who purchase these firearms from licensed dealers are required to fill out a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473, and are subject to a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check. Felons and other prohibited persons may not lawfully receive or possess these firearms or ammunition.
The following is a list of weapons that load from the muzzle and are classified as firearms, not antiques, under the GCA, because they incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm:- 2 -
• Savage Model 10ML (early, 1st version)
• Mossberg 500 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel • Remington 870 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel • Mauser 98 rifle with muzzle loading barrel
• SKS rifle with muzzle loading barrel
• PB sM10 pistol with muzzle loading barrel
• H&R/New England Firearm Huntsman
• Thompson Center Encore/Contender
• Rossi .50 muzzle loading rifle
This list is not complete and frequently changes. There may be other muzzle loaders also classified as firearms. As noted, any muzzle loading weapon that is built on a firearm frame or receiver falls within the definition of a firearm provided in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3).
Finally, even though a prohibited person may lawfully possess an antique firearm under Federal law, State or local law may classify such weapons as “firearms” subject to regulation. Any person considering acquiring a black powder weapon should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org.
Post by: Curly on October 01, 2015, 09:44:17 AM
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
I wonder why you disagree with several others who stated the correct answer above? :dunno:
Post by: Bofire on October 01, 2015, 09:50:17 AM
Carl
Post by: Curly on October 01, 2015, 09:53:33 AM
Knocker nailed it
Carl
Yep. Just like several others had stated previously.
The last sentence in Knocker's quote is key for this state: "Finally, even though a prohibited person may lawfully possess an antique firearm under Federal law, State or local law may classify such weapons as “firearms” subject to regulation. Any person considering acquiring a black powder weapon should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions."
Post by: Bob33 on October 01, 2015, 09:53:56 AM
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.Not legally so in Washington with respect to black powder weapons.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010
(9) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 01, 2015, 09:54:47 AM
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
Washington states definition of a firearm
RCW 9.41.010
Quote
(9) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
So the prohibition against firearm possession would apply at state level, unlike the Federal exemption.
Post by: Bob33 on October 01, 2015, 09:57:38 AM
In Washington a black powder rifle is legally considered a firearm.yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
I wonder why you disagree with several others who stated the correct answer above? :dunno:
Why do you assume that a "black powder" firearm is a modern inline? A felon may possess and use a traditional muzzle loading black powder rifle using powder and projectile. Archery equipment not being governed by the GCA/68 is not even regulated. So yes a felon may lawfully purchase and use black powder weapons and archery equipment.
From the cited document:
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)
Man up and admit you're wrong.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 01, 2015, 09:58:43 AM
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
I wonder why you disagree with several others who stated the correct answer above? :dunno:
Why do you assume that a "black powder" firearm is a modern inline? A felon may possess and use a traditional muzzle loading black powder rifle using powder and projectile. Archery equipment not being governed by the GCA/68 is not even regulated. So yes a felon may lawfully purchase and use black powder weapons and archery equipment.
From the cited document:
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)
You must read the state laws also :bash: :bash: :bash:
Even a potato gun is a firearm in Washington
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 01, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Man up and admit you're wrong.
Or this will become the thread du jour
Post by: Bob33 on October 01, 2015, 10:05:31 AM
Lawyers can be wrong, as has been proven.Can a person with a felony hunt with a muzzle-loader. I have a guy at work who has a felony and said he Muzzy hunts. I told him he might want to look into that. I am under the understanding that he would only be able to hunt with a bow
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Well since my manhood is called into question... http://hunting-washington.com/smf/Smileys/default/chuckle.gif
The original question was can a felon possess an hunt with a muzzle loader. The answer is YES. What can I say ask a lawyer a question and you get a lawyer's answer. Here is one for you, can a felon, in the state of Washington, legally purchase a "modern firearm or black powder" hunting license?
Yes a felon can purchase a hunting license, and legally hunt with archery equipment.
Besides correcting the Hunt WA members, you need to get WDFW straightened out now:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/121/Can+a+felon+possess+or+use+a+muzzleloader%2C+rifle%2C+handgun%2C+or+shotgun+for+hunting%3F
Can a felon possess or use a muzzleloader, rifle, handgun, or shotgun for hunting?
No, unless the felon has had his/her right-to-bear-arms restored through a state superior court. If the felon’s rights have been restored, he/she can use muzzleloaders, rifles, handguns, and shotguns to hunt. But if the felon has not had his/her firearm rights restored, then he/she cannot possess a handgun, shotgun, muzzleloader, or rifle.
Post by: Curly on October 01, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
Post by: emac on October 01, 2015, 10:18:09 AM
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 01, 2015, 10:19:29 AM
Washington state law appllies in Washington, not in Idaho, Oregon or any other state. So the answer to the question of "can he" is "yes".
Idaho's law is similar Washington in that muzzle loaders are defined as a firearm in 18-3302 (2)(d)
It seems like Oregons laws are the same too. I will leave it up to you to parse the other 47 states and several territories to find a state exemption which will define a muzzle loader not as a firearm
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on October 01, 2015, 10:48:37 AM
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
yes a convicted felon may own black powder weapons and hunt with them or archery equipment.
I wonder why you disagree with several others who stated the correct answer above? :dunno:
Why do you assume that a "black powder" firearm is a modern inline? A felon may possess and use a traditional muzzle loading black powder rifle using powder and projectile. Archery equipment not being governed by the GCA/68 is not even regulated. So yes a felon may lawfully purchase and use black powder weapons and archery equipment. Washington state law appllies in Washington, not in Idaho, Oregon or any other state. So the answer to the question of "can he" is "yes".
From the cited document:
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)
Washington state law appllies in Washington, not in Idaho, Oregon or any other state. So the answer to the question of "can he" is "yes".
Idaho's law is similar Washington in that muzzle loaders are defined as a firearm in 18-3302 (2)(d)
It seems like Oregons laws are the same too. I will leave it up to you to parse the other 47 states and several territories to find a state exemption which will define a muzzle loader not as a firearm
WOW!! :DOH:
Make an incorrect statement, then when repeatedly proven that statement is incorrect, continue to defend it out of either ignorance or just because it is fun to play games....really??
Since this is a Washington State Hunting forum, is it really necessary that the OP have to specify that he is inquiring about Washington law???
Based on the comments, maybe yes, which is just sad!!
Just curious, why, after having been clearly shown that the answer is "No" for Washington, why you continue to argue it??
Post by: ElkTipper on October 02, 2015, 12:01:25 PM
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on October 02, 2015, 01:23:45 PM
Post by: ribka on October 02, 2015, 10:16:37 PM
No felons can possess a ml in WA
Take up archery
Post by: Smossy on October 02, 2015, 10:37:00 PM
Post by: 2labs on October 02, 2015, 10:39:38 PM
Post by: Smossy on October 02, 2015, 10:40:50 PM
Me personally, no.. I have a class A
Hello Smossy. Can you get your rights restored?
Some other felons may be able to though.
Post by: 2labs on October 02, 2015, 10:44:32 PM