Post by: bbarnes on January 14, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Please consider a donation which will purchase Alfalfa to help the survival of these animals for today and in the future around the Mt Saint Helen's area.
Donations can be made directly to:
Pioneer Feed and Supply of Ridgefield Washington 360-887-4237
More information can be found at www.mtsainthelensrescue.com
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/MtSaintHelensRescue
Post by: Screaminreelz on January 17, 2009, 08:52:14 AM
Feeding wildlife is a bad idea and has caused alot of probelms with elk dying up there.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 17, 2009, 09:11:49 AM
Are you guys a not for profit organization? Are you working in conjunction with advice from WDFW?
Inquiring minds! :)
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 10:18:06 AM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 03:53:04 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 17, 2009, 04:00:19 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:04:59 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 05:51:01 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:56:14 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 05:58:50 PM
getting around the dam isnt the problem charlie.its the mile of sediment that is backed up there and its like walking on jello.when are we going to hwy 504 for the field trip?
Why would the elk want to get below the Sediment Dam?
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:01:09 PM
getting around the dam isnt the problem charlie.its the mile of sediment that is backed up there and its like walking on jello.when are we going to hwy 504 for the field trip?
Why would the elk want to get below the Sediment Dam?
To migrate?
Feild trip to look at bulls ar shed hunting ;)
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 06:01:53 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:03:13 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:04:28 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 06:07:59 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:08:55 PM
more area for feeding.less concentration of elk
Exactly.
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:11:31 PM
more area for feeding.less concentration of elk
Do you think that the accumulation of sand above the sediment dam is whats keeping the elk from migrating lower? Wouldn't they go around it?...
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
more area for feeding.less concentration of elk
Do you think that the accumulation of sand above the sediment dam is whats keeping the elk from migrating lower? Wouldn't they go around it?...
That is a question I have also, you would think they would but maybee the weeker ones would not? Maybee they would just settle for the mud flows??
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:23:32 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 06:27:54 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:31:14 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:33:15 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:34:28 PM
Exactly curtis, but I want to see them feed em lead ;) I dont see them feeding them in the years to come so either way way more permits need issued or open up some general hunts up, maybee sell a certain number of tags for a general hunt? I dunno. There will never be a perfect answer.
I wouldn't mind seeing them turn the Margret and Toutle into Spike Only general hunts and still do the Branch Bull Draw.
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:36:55 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing them turn the Margret and Toutle into Spike Only general hunts and still do the Branch Bull Draw.
[/quote]
That may be a good alternative , with also a archery cow or spike hunt maybee to help thin a few more of the cows?
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:39:11 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 06:47:39 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:48:07 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 06:50:17 PM
give out more youth , handicap and 65+ tags. maybe reseed the valley, plus some fertiliser( seen it before).but in the meantime what do you do?
If there was a definate plan in place like you stated Curtis, I would say you Have to feed the elk .
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 06:52:47 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 06:58:40 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 07:02:07 PM
true, one channel would help. but i dont expect to see any backhoes digging anytime soon
:chuckle:, Maybee a dragline would help :chuckle:
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 07:04:47 PM
true, one channel would help. but i dont expect to see any backhoes digging anytime soon
I was thinking more along the lines of rip rap type rock. But yeah, it'll never happen.
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 07:17:51 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 07:24:53 PM
And like you say burn the scotchbloom...
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 07:39:51 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 17, 2009, 07:45:15 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 09:31:03 PM
Post by: zackmioli on January 17, 2009, 11:53:47 PM
Post by: RPM on January 19, 2009, 05:48:18 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 19, 2009, 05:51:01 PM
In my opinion, once the Margret and Upper Winston starts getting clear cut more, the feed situation will me a moot point.
Post by: bucklucky on January 19, 2009, 05:52:21 PM
I agree, theres too many elk fot the habitat also. They need thinned down just as I stated earlier.
Post by: JoeVon on January 19, 2009, 05:53:33 PM
Is there much winter kill in the green and south fork?
Quite a bit, actually.
Post by: bucklucky on January 19, 2009, 05:56:23 PM
Post by: JoeVon on January 19, 2009, 06:01:19 PM
Post by: RPM on January 19, 2009, 07:46:32 PM
The green has a bunch of winter kill? Man with all the clearcuts you'd think they would be fine.THERES STILL MORE FOOD THAN THER EVER WAS PRE EURPTION. THERES JUST WAY MORE ELK . THE FEDS EVEDENTLY DID'NT THINK THE TREES WOULD GROW BACK. ITS ALL THIER TRADITIONAL WINTER RANGE THERES JUST WAY MORE ELK. :twocents:
Post by: saudog on January 21, 2009, 01:40:47 PM
There is a lot going on in that area around Cougar as the feds are trying to turn the Monument into National Park, and the local businesses and sportsmen don't like it one bit. The elk up there on the West/South side of the mountain get forgotten about because there isn't a lot of people hunting up there and the WDFW doesn't pay it a lot of attention.
I hunt up there and saw more winter kill in one hike this last year than I've ever seen in my whole life. We know of 3 bull elk skull/skeletons found in one little area, 3 point or better, and my dad found one as well opening day. Those elk never should have been up there and were sure to be healthy going into the winter but they are hesitant to come down due to development on the south side of the mountain. Also, the crazy weather we have been seeing doesn't help. The huge early and then late season dumps that we saw last year and now this year don't give the elk much time to make up their minds.
Just my two cents on the subject. I'm going to donate a little cash to these guys as I've talked with them while up there about their cause and their ideals. Their hearts are in the right place. Mismanagement of the land and the game regs is hurting the elk, which have traditionaly always thrived up there.
Post by: RPM on January 22, 2009, 08:45:04 PM
Post by: bbarnes on January 22, 2009, 08:49:45 PM
Yes, we are a non-profit organization. No we are not working in conjunction with the WDFW, they however are aware of the feeding on the North and South side of Mt. Saint Helens.
Post by: saudog on January 23, 2009, 01:32:36 PM
Post by: elkangel on January 25, 2009, 08:24:57 PM
The Spirit Lake Tunnel changed forever the mouth of the N. Fork Toutle River. What now exists is a waterless waste land that stretches over six miles in front of the mountain.
Over the year, two sediment dams have destroyed all natural habitats as the 14 mile valley slowly fills in with sediment. This leaves no vegetation in the valley for winter or summer habitat.
The WDFW has spent 15 years and thousands of dollars to increase habitat, this effort has failed, in fact the areas habitat has decreased.
Forty eight thousand acres of timber salvage were replanted at the same time thus creating a large forested monoculture, 25 years old timber with little vegetation.
The ten years of helicopter seeding by the Federal Government to prevent erosion created a false habitat which allowed the herd to feed and grow on an artificial food source. After this ten year period, planting was abandoned and erosion continues to deplete the landscape.
Timber company forest practices have changed to a four year herbicide spraying program on new clear cuts. This is destroying a great deal of foliage providing less habitat. This is could be effecting approx. 14% of the winter habitat.
The WDFW allows over 100,000 hunter days around the mountain. This has led to over pursuit pushing animals into closed hunting units putting them over their carrying capacity. This can equal borderline harassment that has enhanced the stress to an already nutritional deprived herd.
All these manmade influences have negatively impacted the natural habitat for elk. In addition the WDFW's inability to initiate and operate their herd plan in a timely manner has lead to the over population of the herd. The mismanagement has led to an imbalance of bull to cow ratios estimated 2.4 cows to every 1 bull. This has also led to line breeding or in-breeding, producing smaller rag horn bulls.
All of this has lead to some of the highest winter mortality rates in the States history.
The WDFW has known about this for at least the past 3 years, and still has not addressed the problem. This action appears to have allowed the elk to be in poor condition year round and diseased, hoof rot, deformed antlers, scabies, calf diphtheria and many other conditions are developing in the herd. The only cure for this herd is to get them healthy, but this will be a lot harder to do than to talk about it. WE must get aggressive and make some more man made decision to help correct the problem so we can bring the herd and habitat back to a more natural state, what ever it takes. But one thing is for sure letting the elk starve is not the answer, we have to be able to do better than that.
Post by: bbarnes on January 26, 2009, 09:30:44 PM
Please consider a donation which will purchase Alfalfa to help the survival of these animals for today and in the future around the Mt Saint Helen's area.
Donations can be made directly to:
Pioneer Feed and Supply of Ridgefield Washington 360-887-4237
More information can be found at www.mtsainthelensrescue.com
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/MtSaintHelensRescue
Post by: Huntbear on January 26, 2009, 09:42:23 PM
Post by: elkangel on January 27, 2009, 04:59:37 PM
And now the rest of the story, loving wildlife to death, just when the hunting season ends people start heading into the deep winter woods looking for antlers, deer sheds of coarse, in January thru February. But, you can't help but run into elk and chase them around, scouting for the elk shed that will start in March and April. During these times the elk are easy to find herded up in the valleys close in searching for food to get through winter. So in reality they are pursued in poor condition 7 months of the year.
So, this is the reality of the pursuit, stress and harassment, unintended by people who are just trying to enjoy themselves.
If you are siting there saying this guy is full of S--t, ask yourself, how stressed do you get hunting these days?
Post by: ICEMAN on January 27, 2009, 06:53:19 PM
Post by: RPM on January 28, 2009, 01:25:02 AM
Post by: JoeVon on January 28, 2009, 06:00:59 AM
The Concern to the long hunting season as an affect to the problem extends from the season starting in September and ending in January. The WDFW has gone to the well one to many times, they hammer the same (GMU's), with the same limited access that hunters cover every day till January. Either scouting, deer hunting archery, muzzle loader, then elk archery, muzzle loader, then deer modern firearm, elk modern firearm, late archery deer and elk, late muzzle loader. this does not cover the multiple special tags and advanced hunter permits. The problem is that no one gets any type of quality hunting, it's based more on just luck. The access is so poor in the area that you can only cover it on weekends when and if open. If gates are open during the week there are so many hunter driving into the area you would do better to sell hot dogs and coffee. The rest of the season hunter walk, ride bikes and horses. Or their are a few that find State land to camp on during the week, so the stay there and drive behind the gates during the week. All this leads to a constant push from limited access general season areas to drive elk into the limited tag areas or closed areas were there is less pressure. The elk herd up and spend more time in these areas depleting the habitat at faster rates due to the travel, stress and numbers. As an example the WDFW has kept the Winston until open as a catch all for every special tag and permit in addition to the always open either sex archery season. This area is one of the highest per hunter day areas in the State.
And now the rest of the story, loving wildlife to death, just when the hunting season ends people start heading into the deep winter woods looking for antlers, deer sheds of coarse, in January thru February. But, you can't help but run into elk and chase them around, scouting for the elk shed that will start in March and April. During these times the elk are easy to find herded up in the valleys close in searching for food to get through winter. So in reality they are pursued in poor condition 7 months of the year.
So, this is the reality of the pursuit, stress and harassment, unintended by people who are just trying to enjoy themselves.
If you are siting there saying this guy is full of S--t, ask yourself, how stressed do you get hunting these days?
Good Stuff, Mark.