Post by: bearpaw on September 06, 2015, 01:06:35 PM
Fall plantings are the most successful so the plan has been to put this money to use this fall. I have been told by Dan at the Mule Deer Foundation (he goes by MuleDeer here on the forum) that there are some projects coming up this fall and we will be able to put the money raised and the bitterbrush plants that were donated, to good use soon.
Here's the topic listing those who volunteered to help this fall, I'm hoping everyone is still willing to help plant and if any additional persons would like to help please post in this topic so you can be added to the contact list and contacted when help is needed:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,169761.0.html
Post by: bearpaw on September 06, 2015, 01:12:34 PM
Mule Deer Auctions
Auction...Price.....Buyer..............Payment...Item Status...Item Description...
1...........$250.....Rainier10...............Check.......Received......Rainshadow Knife
2...........$200.....50CalJim...............Check.......Received......Elknut Outdoors Vortex bino's
3...........$175.....Jacque..................Check.......Received......Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call
4...........$150.....Southpole..............Check.......Received.....Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call #2
5...........$100.....Boss .300 winmag...Paypal.......Received......Extreme Elk Magazine
6...........$165.....jrebel....................Paypal......Received......EVO Outdoors Tenzing weapon case
7...........$125.....mtncook................Paypal......Received......Bearpaw Outfitters Hunting Books
8...........$350.....ELKBURGER...........Check.......Organized....Western Life Outfitters Trail Ride
9...........$100.....vandeman17...........Paypal......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip
10.........$170.....Gringo31................Check......Organized....Nature's Way Taxidermy Euro mount
11.........$ 70.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Received......Elknut Outdoors DVD's
12.........$210.....bearpaw.................Check.......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Ladies Man"
13.........$ 60.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Shot Glass, Cocktail Glass (missing), Beer Tankard
14.........$ 55.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Bino System, Black Logo Hat
15.........$ 70.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Travel Mug, Coffee Mug (missing)
16.........$ 25.....Pygmy...................Paypal......Sent...........Tin Mule Deer Sign
17.........$200.....Rainier10................Check......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "A Breath of Glory"
18.........$250.....GUscottie...............Paypal......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Bachelor's Pad"
19.........$100.....Southpole..............Check.......Sent...........MDF Bag, MDF Black Logo Hat
20.........$105.....Orion88.................Check.......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip #2
21.........$205.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Sent...........MDF Cap, XXL Shirt, phone app
22.........$ 65.....Romulus1297..........Check.......Received......Handmade Broom
23.........$105.....Grundy53...............Paypal......Messaged.....Choice: MDF mug, glass, or cap
Sale.......$450.....MtnMuley...............Check.......Ordered.......The Bachelor’s Pad - A Breath of Glory
Sale.......$ 40.....jackelope..............................Received......OnxMAPS Phone App
Bitterbrush Plants to be Shipped in the Fall
On behalf of Go4steelhd……250 to the Methow Planting Team
On behalf of Grundy53………250 to the Methow Planting Team
Remaining Items To Sell or Auction
4500...Bitterbrush Plants
6........OnxMAPS Phone Apps
1........Mule Deer Horn Earings
1........Mule Deer Necklace & Earings
4........Mule Deer Playing Cards
6........MDF Key Rings
5........MDF Baseball Caps
5........MDF Coffee Mug
1........MDF Frosted Shot Glass
1........MDF Frosted Beer Tankard
5........MDF Frosted Glass
24.......MDF Drinking Glass
12.......MDF Wine Glass
1........Set of 4 Stone Mule Deer Coasters
6........MDF Window Decal
1........Set of 3 MDF Golf Balls
8........MDF Tall Beer Glass
1........MDF License Plate Holder
1........MDF Black T-Shirt XXL
Post by: Brad Harshman on September 06, 2015, 01:21:10 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 06, 2015, 01:29:45 PM
Please add me to the volunteer contact list.
Done! Thanks much! :tup:
Post by: MuleDeer on October 03, 2015, 11:47:39 AM
Waiting for updates on the potential projects for this fall and spring, and will relay that info here when I get it.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 25, 2015, 09:10:29 AM
Post by: MuleDeer on November 01, 2015, 02:00:03 PM
I did hear from Todd that his bitterbrush plugs didn't succeed overall...those that made it were eaten by the deer. So the funds raised/donated specifically for that purpose can still be used, but we would get them through a local grower or seed supplier. Still will have the same effect, and we could work on matching forum funds with MDF funds to double our inventory for planting.
Post by: MuleDeer on November 06, 2015, 12:12:39 PM
This project only came up the day before, so there was no time to get the word out for volunteers. I have asked the bios there to do their best to give us more notice so I can post projects here for those that would like to get out and help.
Post by: LDennis24 on November 06, 2015, 12:44:25 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on November 06, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 06, 2015, 01:10:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on November 06, 2015, 01:52:57 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 06, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Where can we get some and what is the best time to plant?
Todd_ID has started antelope bitterbrush plants/seedlings. Not sure how or even if he sells them, but he grows them. He donated a lot of them to sell for donations to the MDF that are intended to be planted in the Methow. I'm not sure where we stand on the logistical end of that. That's a question that MuleDeer and/or Bearpaw could answer better. Plans were in the works and then the fire season here put the kibosh on that this year asI understand.
I think the biologists originally said the best time to plant would be fall. Don't hold me to that just yet.
Post by: huntnphool on November 06, 2015, 02:07:35 PM
Where can we get some and what is the best time to plant?
Todd_ID has started antelope bitterbrush plants/seedlings. Not sure how or even if he sells them, but he grows them. He donated a lot of them to sell for donations to the MDF that are intended to be planted in the Methow. I'm not sure where we stand on the logistical end of that. That's a question that MuleDeer and/or Bearpaw could answer better. Plans were in the works and then the fire season here put the kibosh on that this year asI understand.
I think the biologists originally said the best time to plant would be fall. Don't hold me to that just yet.
Thanks, just sent him a text. :tup:
Post by: LDennis24 on November 06, 2015, 03:59:01 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on November 06, 2015, 04:01:11 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on November 06, 2015, 04:13:16 PM
Here's a link with some info:
http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/science-and-innovation/science-publications-and-resources/technical-factsheets/winterfat-packed-with-protein-for-fall-and-winter-grazing/?id=1417531635096
Post by: MuleDeer on November 11, 2015, 11:15:50 AM
Bitterbrush, depending on who you talk to, is a very low-success rate plant. It is very hard to start, which is why we seed much more than needed if they were all successful. Same with plugs; many won't survive or will be eaten, so you have to put a lot out in any given area for hopes of success. It's by no means the favored food of mule deer, but during high snow events, it tends to be the only thing standing high enough above the snow that is of value to them, so it's important for us to continue with.
I had heard from Todd that his plugs either didn't make it through either because of dry weather or deer, so I don't think he has any available for us, but let me know if anyone hears different from him. Best time to plant the plugs is during the early winter (right now is great), and you can also drill seed this time of year. Broadcasting and drilling is usually done in the Spring. For an individual, and what our project did last week, ski poles were used to create a small hole, and a "pinch" of seed (5 or 6 seeds) were dropped in. Simple, and now we just hope to get the weather that we'll need as the seasons turn next year. If anyone has success in some plantings this fall or next spring, please share photos! If allowed, I'd like to include some pics in the future for an article for our national magazine about the habitat work being done in all of our burned out areas.
Post by: PastorJoel on November 11, 2015, 08:04:19 PM
Post by: mwhunter on November 14, 2015, 10:24:01 PM
Post by: MuleDeer on December 21, 2015, 09:53:04 PM
I know a lot of you will help with local landowners feeding anyway, and no one can stop you. But please do not use hay! You could cause more deaths than you would help avoid. Do some checking around with local feed suppliers and see if they have any pelletized feed available.
Post by: wolfbait on December 17, 2016, 10:18:40 AM
Whatever you do, please DO NOT provide hay for the mule deer as winter feed; it can kill them. There is a special pellet that is made up for wildlife, and in particular, mule deer, and it contains a lot that they need to stay healthy. There are feeders that were built and/or repaired last year, and if WDFW sees the conditions that are necessary, they will let us know that the process may be needed.
I know a lot of you will help with local landowners feeding anyway, and no one can stop you. But please do not use hay! You could cause more deaths than you would help avoid. Do some checking around with local feed suppliers and see if they have any pelletized feed available.
In 2008 we fed over a 100 head of deer with our horses and mules, didn't see any deer dying from the hay. The end of February a cougar came through one night and killed 7 coming yearling fawns.
Funny thing, when the bad winters hit ranchers, farmers etc. feed the deer, and on occasions WDFW are finally shamed in to setting up their little pellet feed stations along the county roads, thats where we see the dead deer. Some say WDFW wait too long to feed the deer, and the feed is to rich which causes the deer to bloat, or maybe they are so starved up by that time they the new source of food is to much.
Meanwhile back on the ranches the hay fed deer are doing just fine.
Post by: bearpaw on May 31, 2017, 04:47:10 PM
Whatever you do, please DO NOT provide hay for the mule deer as winter feed; it can kill them. There is a special pellet that is made up for wildlife, and in particular, mule deer, and it contains a lot that they need to stay healthy. There are feeders that were built and/or repaired last year, and if WDFW sees the conditions that are necessary, they will let us know that the process may be needed.
I know a lot of you will help with local landowners feeding anyway, and no one can stop you. But please do not use hay! You could cause more deaths than you would help avoid. Do some checking around with local feed suppliers and see if they have any pelletized feed available.
In 2008 we fed over a 100 head of deer with our horses and mules, didn't see any deer dying from the hay. The end of February a cougar came through one night and killed 7 coming yearling fawns.
Funny thing, when the bad winters hit ranchers, farmers etc. feed the deer, and on occasions WDFW are finally shamed in to setting up their little pellet feed stations along the county roads, thats where we see the dead deer. Some say WDFW wait too long to feed the deer, and the feed is to rich which causes the deer to bloat, or maybe they are so starved up by that time they the new source of food is to much.
Meanwhile back on the ranches the hay fed deer are doing just fine.
I would mostly agree, lots of deer eat all winter with cow feeding operations. Lots of sportsmen complain in other states about F&G waiting too long to begin feeding. I think MuleDeer was referring to taking hay out to deer that haven't had any hay previously in the winter.
Post by: Rainier10 on May 31, 2017, 04:57:22 PM
Post by: wolfbait on May 31, 2017, 05:15:36 PM
This is the kind of help that would really improve the Okanogan deer herd the most. Don't tell WDFW, it will ruin their studies.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213708.0.html
Post by: idahohuntr on May 31, 2017, 05:18:42 PM
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Post by: Ade on December 16, 2017, 09:11:45 PM
Post by: Ade on December 16, 2017, 09:19:14 PM
Post by: Ade on December 16, 2017, 09:23:01 PM
Post by: wolfbait on December 16, 2017, 09:45:02 PM
http://www.thedailyworld.com/northwest/bear-necessity-plan-would-reintroduce-grizzlies-to-cascades/
Wolves were introduced to end hunting and stop grazing public lands, the grizzly bear introduction is about locking up huge tracts of land.
I wonder will the corrupt USFWS, WDFW, and the fake environmental groups reach their goal or will the bottom fall out of their boat, sort of like the FBI ship that is now floundering on the rocks?
Post by: Ade on December 24, 2017, 06:53:17 PM
The Trump administration is halting work on North Cascades grizzly bear recovery work.
Making America great again!
Thank you all for your input to sites like this it helps get our voice out there I’ll take a win
Post by: huntnphool on December 24, 2017, 07:23:09 PM
Just read in the local paper
The Trump administration is halting work on North Cascades grizzly bear recovery work.
Making America great again!
Thank you all for your input to sites like this it helps get our voice out there I’ll take a win
If that's true.....YUGE! :tup:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 03, 2018, 05:57:34 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 02, 2019, 06:31:46 AM
http://methowvalleynews.com/2018/12/26/wdfw-deer-survey-shows-methow-population-down-a-bit/
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2019, 07:09:30 AM
Post by: bigmacc on January 02, 2019, 10:15:32 AM
From what I see its a lot worse than that, zero confidence in these guys, and yes they earned it! :bash: :bash:
Post by: jackelope on January 02, 2019, 10:23:53 AM
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 02, 2019, 10:28:34 AM
Post by: woodswalker on January 02, 2019, 10:36:41 AM
It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.\
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
Given who is making the statement, its COMPLETELY believable that he SAID that but virtually guarantees that its not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Post by: bigmacc on January 02, 2019, 10:53:59 AM
It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
Exactly. Sure the hunting pressure needs to be addressed (job 2-do away with quality tags in the Methow) but when you got gangs of predators who's populations are exploding to the point where you see more predators than you see deer in a 9 day period, well, something is haywire and way out of balance. We talked with some guys hunting one of the top areas in the Methow this last year, they have hunted it for over 40 years and have been very successful to say the least and I have seen their success many many times over the years. The last 2 years they have seen more predators than deer, everything from Yotes to cats to bear and wolves to even a Grizzly and her cub. This year they seen a total of about 14 different predators(between 4 hunters) and a total of 9 deer with one being a small spike and as I said, this is in one of the premier areas in the Methow hunted by guys who know it like the back of their hands. Going back to where I started with job 2 being to do away with quality tags in the Methow, JOB 1 is getting the predator situation in that valley under control, and IMHO they better get started on it because if its not aggressively addressed and the predators are left unchecked it will be a matter of a few years before this valley is a memory as far as good hunting goes. I know I,ve said this before but here it is again, it is truly a shame what the WDFW has let this once strong, growing and thriving Mule deer herd deteriorate into....as always, my opinion and :twocents:
Post by: BLR 243 on January 02, 2019, 11:02:29 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 02, 2019, 11:36:42 AM
It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 02, 2019, 12:07:45 PM
Post by: ipkus on January 02, 2019, 12:22:15 PM
It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
The fact that the bio does not mention at all that predators "may" bare part of the blame shows the bias this particular biologist has always demonstrated, and is example #24,875 why the customers (hunters) have zero faith in the supplier (WDFW).
And, quite frankly, the way you responded in defense of the article shows your own leaning.
Post by: bigmacc on January 02, 2019, 12:41:57 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 02, 2019, 01:28:35 PM
I'm not defending anything - I'm pointing out inarguable facts which were omitted in the above statement.It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
The fact that the bio does not mention at all that predators "may" bare part of the blame shows the bias this particular biologist has always demonstrated, and is example #24,875 why the customers (hunters) have zero faith in the supplier (WDFW).
And, quite frankly, the way you responded in defense of the article shows your own leaning.
There is plenty of bias when it comes to game management - sticking to facts will allow for more informed decisions. :twocents:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 02, 2019, 02:01:39 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
Its like another thing Ive said many times, pre WDFW(90,s and before when they were the actual "Game Department) when you talked to Dept. folks from Wardens to Bio,s to the bigshots in the office about why they pursued this line of work?, there answer 99% of the time in order was their LOVE of hunting, fishing and the outdoors, and the many that I knew and my family knew going back decades were all avid hunters and truly cared about the health of our big game herds(deer and elk), since the switch to WDFW the old "Game Dept. guard" has slowly been replaced by folks who I would venture do not answer that same question the same way. :twocents:Lots of great hunters still in WDFW, and especially among the ones you get to meet in the field. Unfortunately Washington State Government could care less about the 3% of the state who hunt.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 02, 2019, 02:34:44 PM
Do you happen to any knowledge or past history of the area and it's misinformation put out by the bio idahohuntr?Yes. But he didn't write the article and he's not the decision maker for WDFW.
Post by: bigmacc on January 02, 2019, 03:30:53 PM
Its like another thing Ive said many times, pre WDFW(90,s and before when they were the actual "Game Department) when you talked to Dept. folks from Wardens to Bio,s to the bigshots in the office about why they pursued this line of work?, there answer 99% of the time in order was their LOVE of hunting, fishing and the outdoors, and the many that I knew and my family knew going back decades were all avid hunters and truly cared about the health of our big game herds(deer and elk), since the switch to WDFW the old "Game Dept. guard" has slowly been replaced by folks who I would venture do not answer that same question the same way. :twocents:Lots of great hunters still in WDFW, and especially among the ones you get to meet in the field. Unfortunately Washington State Government could care less about the 3% of the state who hunt.
Absolutely correct, there still are some, but as far as comparing the amounts(WDFW vs Game Department)its not even close, we actually knew and hunted with many and even some of those said (that worked for both during the transition and later retired)that the tide was turning, I cannot recall one that I or my family knew personally that hunting wasn't their passion and that passion was a big reason they were led into working for the Game Department, eventually it will probably be a small percentage that get into the line of work because of their "love of hunting" and what you say about how the "Washington State Government could care less" is spot on AND a big reason why that "tide is turning", I would bet they DONT WANT the new Dept. (from boots on the ground to bigshot desk jockeys) to be to top-heavy with guys and gals who love hunting. Its my same old story, its not the Game Department any more where the health and well being of our herds is THE top priority, in fact they are way down the rungs of the ladder, the WDFW needs more and more folks to work for them that see things the same way and unfortunately that tide is slowly turning and has been since the WDFW came to be...With all due respect DOUBLELUNG, its just my observations and history of the matter :tup:
Post by: jackelope on January 02, 2019, 04:04:32 PM
It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
I'm not defending anything - I'm pointing out inarguable facts which were omitted in the above statement.It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
The fact that the bio does not mention at all that predators "may" bare part of the blame shows the bias this particular biologist has always demonstrated, and is example #24,875 why the customers (hunters) have zero faith in the supplier (WDFW).
And, quite frankly, the way you responded in defense of the article shows your own leaning.
There is plenty of bias when it comes to game management - sticking to facts will allow for more informed decisions. :twocents:
I read the article. He's blaming the decreased fawn/doe ratio on summer drought and fire damage.
The Carlton Complex Fire of 2014 damaged large tracts of mule deer winter range, burning bitterbrush and other shrubs that provide winter forage for deer in the Methow Valley. Although the range is slowly recovering, the fire’s lingering effects may contribute to a lower fawn/doe ratio, Fitkin said.
“My suspicion is productivity is down. The combined effects of summer drought and fires on the winter range is at least partially responsible for the dip in fawn/doe ratios,” Fitkin said. “When deer are nutritionally stressed, they don’t have as many fawns. It makes it harder for does. They may not have as many twins, or may even reabsorb the fetus.”
The part about the predator study is there, but it's ultra-vague. No details at all, and it's a "separate" study conducted by the UW.
To conduct the research, biologists are locating mule deer does in the Methow Valley that have been captured and fitted with GPS radio collars as part of a separate study of predator and prey interactions being conducted by the University of Washington. About 80 does currently have collars.
Don't hold me to it, but I'm pretty sure that the word "predator" was used one time in that whole article.
My conclusion....lots of talk about hunting being the cause of the decline in the population. Very little talk about habitat related issues and almost none about predator population.
@idahohuntr don't get me wrong. Usually I'm the one getting blasted for supporting the WDFW, but this is ridiculous, almost comical, that predator affects were not even mentioned as a potential cause for herd decline(they weren't...that's a fact).
Post by: jstone on January 02, 2019, 04:14:29 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 02, 2019, 04:31:20 PM
It is pretty similar to hacking the heck out of a bush in your yard. You prune that thing way back in the fall and that next spring it takes off and gets bigger and fuller than it was before you hacked it back.
I want to say the grass and brush is way thicker around my place than it was pre fire because all of the trees burned up so the grass and brush has full exposure to the sun. I am having to clear grass and brush so my new seedling trees can grow.
This year fawn and calf numbers seemed to finally be coming up. I am hoping next year is the same and I see another increase. Of course it has been over 4 years now since the fire so it does take some time.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2019, 04:42:01 PM
I respect your observations and history. In WDFW, many of the ones who do love hunting stay at the field level and don't promote up because the job gets increasingly more thankless as one promotes, even though the pay increases.Its like another thing Ive said many times, pre WDFW(90,s and before when they were the actual "Game Department) when you talked to Dept. folks from Wardens to Bio,s to the bigshots in the office about why they pursued this line of work?, there answer 99% of the time in order was their LOVE of hunting, fishing and the outdoors, and the many that I knew and my family knew going back decades were all avid hunters and truly cared about the health of our big game herds(deer and elk), since the switch to WDFW the old "Game Dept. guard" has slowly been replaced by folks who I would venture do not answer that same question the same way. :twocents:Lots of great hunters still in WDFW, and especially among the ones you get to meet in the field. Unfortunately Washington State Government could care less about the 3% of the state who hunt.
Absolutely correct, there still are some, but as far as comparing the amounts(WDFW vs Game Department)its not even close, we actually knew and hunted with many and even some of those said (that worked for both during the transition and later retired)that the tide was turning, I cannot recall one that I or my family knew personally that hunting wasn't their passion and that passion was a big reason they were led into working for the Game Department, eventually it will probably be a small percentage that get into the line of work because of their "love of hunting" and what you say about how the "Washington State Government could care less" is spot on AND a big reason why that "tide is turning", I would bet they DONT WANT the new Dept. (from boots on the ground to bigshot desk jockeys) to be to top-heavy with guys and gals who love hunting. Its my same old story, its not the Game Department any more where the health and well being of our herds is THE top priority, in fact they are way down the rungs of the ladder, the WDFW needs more and more folks to work for them that see things the same way and unfortunately that tide is slowly turning and has been since the WDFW came to be...With all due respect DOUBLELUNG, its just my observations and history of the matter :tup:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
How long after a fire does it take the buck brush and feed to grow back? Also, if it burns up will it grow back in the same areas? Altitude, moisture.? What does it take?Buckbrush (Ceanothus) comes back quickly after fire, but it is at higher elevation and requires more moisture than the crucial winter range in most areas. Post-fire winter severity can really trash a herd quickly when they are constrained to the sagebrush-bitterbrush lowest elevations by snow depth and crusting, and there is very little browse. Throw in predation suppression of depressed deer populations and recovery is slow and hard. So far this is looking like a mild winter, the few mature bucks I've been seeing are up in the buckbrush above 3,000' elevation.
I don't think we hunters can put much of a dent in the predator populations with the current tools at our disposal, but every coyote/bear/cougar killed by hunters in mule deer country takes a little pressure off.
Post by: jackelope on January 02, 2019, 04:55:42 PM
@DOUBLELUNG ....... Do you think there is a significant enough predator situation to be affecting deer numbers?
Post by: Rainier10 on January 02, 2019, 05:02:07 PM
:yeah:How long after a fire does it take the buck brush and feed to grow back? Also, if it burns up will it grow back in the same areas? Altitude, moisture.? What does it take?Buckbrush (Ceanothus) comes back quickly after fire, but it is at higher elevation and requires more moisture than the crucial winter range in most areas. Post-fire winter severity can really trash a herd quickly when they are constrained to the sagebrush-bitterbrush lowest elevations by snow depth and crusting, and there is very little browse. Throw in predation suppression of depressed deer populations and recovery is slow and hard. So far this is looking like a mild winter, the few mature bucks I've been seeing are up in the buckbrush above 3,000' elevation.
I don't think we hunters can put much of a dent in the predator populations with the current tools at our disposal, but every coyote/bear/cougar killed by hunters in mule deer country takes a little pressure off.
I should have added that the bitterbrush and sage brush on my place that was burned is just gone, it doesn't come back from the roots or if it does it is really slow because I am not seeing any of it coming back.
I have tried planting bitterbrush and sagebrush seeds with no luck.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 02, 2019, 05:32:40 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 02, 2019, 05:44:24 PM
So....I think predators are depressing herd recovery in the short term. In the long term, I think habitat loss and degradation have reduced the carrying capacity. The combination of the two results in lower peak abundance than in the past, and longer periods of recovery after crashes.
@DOUBLELUNG ....... Do you think there is a significant enough predator situation to be affecting deer numbers?
Historically, both mule deer and cougars were habitat specialists in mule deer country, with very patchy distribution and relatively low numbers. Rangewide, mule deer reached unprecedented abundance through the combination of logging off old growth timber and active persecution of predators through government campaigns and private efforts of unrestricted poisoning. Rangewide, mule deer abundance peaked in the late 1940s-early 1960s and have been declining ever since; first through clearcuts growing up into doghair stands, next with the environmental movement of the 1960s leading to curtailing poisoning, culminating with Nixon's executive order banning 1080 and most poisoning in 1972; coinciding with the crash in fur prices beginning in the 1960s due to antitrapping/animal cruelty sentiment; the near total cessation of active forest management after the 1970s; reintroduction of wolves in the 1990s in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming by the federal government; and cheatgrass invasion of crucial winter ranges leading to too frequent fire return intervals and reductions of shrubs on crucial winter ranges, and the fragmentation and destruction of crucial winter ranges have all contributed to the continued decline of mule deer. Throw into the mix the huge increase in human populations, and their consumption of primarily crucial winter range habitats throughout the foothills of the west, and migratory mule deer populations that winter in foothills are in tough shape range wide.
Specific to Okanogan and Chelan counties, unwillingness to curtail winter recreation and access onto crucial winter ranges; loss of winter ranges to residential development; and conversion of ladder-picked unfenced orchards to fenced, high density orchards and subdivisions; increased traffic and traffic speeds on highways through crucial winter ranges, have all contributed to lower habitat suitability and value. Specific to Washington, colonization by wolves, restrictions on cougar hunting/harvest, and the 1996 trapping ban have all tilted conditions in favor of increasing predator populations at the expense of mule deer.
Predator control would not bring back the mule deer abundance of the 1950s and 1960s; those were the heyday and will not likely ever return. More pressure on predator populations would increase the rate of recovery from winter losses and decrease the troughs between the much lower peaks of the mule deer population cycle.
It would also be helpful if motorized access onto winter ranges was drastically reduced, and if the department would prioritize population size over resource allocation. We really shouldn't be harvesting does when the populations are suppressed, unfortunately that is the tool of choice for increasing success for user groups to equalize success rates, to encourage recruitment of young hunters, and to provide additional opportunities for seniors and disabled hunters. There is also a thriving poaching problem in Washington and other heavily populated states, and unfortunately mule deer are one of the most easily poached species.
Post by: MtnMuley on January 02, 2019, 06:04:04 PM
Back to the main point this thread: Where is all the donated money that was supposed to be used to plant bitterbrush after the original Carlton Complex Fire?
Post by: idahohuntr on January 03, 2019, 08:39:17 AM
I don't disagree that predators should have been discussed in the context of declines - the predator/prey study clearly implies it's a concern so I have no clue why they didn't discuss it. However, habitat issues seem pretty clear (and were directly mentioned)...and folks don't like to admit it, but hunter harvest is a very significant factor in many hunted populations...the lower buck:doe ratios certainly support that observation.It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:I'm not defending anything - I'm pointing out inarguable facts which were omitted in the above statement.It's hard for me to believe that the only thing mentioned causing the drop in herd numbers is hunting.If you read the article you will see they also discuss summer drought and fire damage to winter range as well. They also mention an active predator/prey study being done by UW - so they should have more data on predation effects as well.
Well, maybe it's not hard to believe.
:dunno:
The fact that the bio does not mention at all that predators "may" bare part of the blame shows the bias this particular biologist has always demonstrated, and is example #24,875 why the customers (hunters) have zero faith in the supplier (WDFW).
And, quite frankly, the way you responded in defense of the article shows your own leaning.
There is plenty of bias when it comes to game management - sticking to facts will allow for more informed decisions. :twocents:
I read the article. He's blaming the decreased fawn/doe ratio on summer drought and fire damage.
The Carlton Complex Fire of 2014 damaged large tracts of mule deer winter range, burning bitterbrush and other shrubs that provide winter forage for deer in the Methow Valley. Although the range is slowly recovering, the fire’s lingering effects may contribute to a lower fawn/doe ratio, Fitkin said.
“My suspicion is productivity is down. The combined effects of summer drought and fires on the winter range is at least partially responsible for the dip in fawn/doe ratios,” Fitkin said. “When deer are nutritionally stressed, they don’t have as many fawns. It makes it harder for does. They may not have as many twins, or may even reabsorb the fetus.”
The part about the predator study is there, but it's ultra-vague. No details at all, and it's a "separate" study conducted by the UW.
To conduct the research, biologists are locating mule deer does in the Methow Valley that have been captured and fitted with GPS radio collars as part of a separate study of predator and prey interactions being conducted by the University of Washington. About 80 does currently have collars.
Don't hold me to it, but I'm pretty sure that the word "predator" was used one time in that whole article.
My conclusion....lots of talk about hunting being the cause of the decline in the population. Very little talk about habitat related issues and almost none about predator population.
@idahohuntr don't get me wrong. Usually I'm the one getting blasted for supporting the WDFW, but this is ridiculous, almost comical, that predator affects were not even mentioned as a potential cause for herd decline(they weren't...that's a fact).
Post by: KFhunter on January 03, 2019, 09:41:59 AM
Hunter numbers are dropping fast, predators are taking our place. The methow habitat decline is short lived and temporary, we need to lower predator numbers and continue habitat restoration efforts for sure, I'm never against improving habitat where feasible and viable.
There's hardly any young kids getting into hunting, xbox and social media has replaced the outdoors.
"hunter decline" top 5 articles on a google search:
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it
https://www.biggamelogic.com/Articles-News/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/603/A-Closer-Look-At-The-Decline-In-Hunter-Participation
http://www.trcp.org/2017/09/07/confirmed-decline-hunter-participation-call-action-sportsmen/
http://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/the-hunter-decline-and-how-we-can-fix-it/272064
Post by: grundy53 on January 03, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
You're forgetting that with Fitkins line of thinking, adding doe tags will get that buck to doe ratio closer. I truly believe we'll never see the true muley numbers even close to where they once were.Curious to know where the money went also.
Back to the main point this thread: Where is all the donated money that was supposed to be used to plant bitterbrush after the original Carlton Complex Fire?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: bearpaw on January 03, 2019, 10:19:54 AM
You're forgetting that with Fitkins line of thinking, adding doe tags will get that buck to doe ratio closer. I truly believe we'll never see the true muley numbers even close to where they once were.
Back to the main point this thread: Where is all the donated money that was supposed to be used to plant bitterbrush after the original Carlton Complex Fire?
I was told someone was asking about that money, it is in the WFW checking account (Chase Bank). If I remember correctly the bitter brush that was being raised accidentally died. It was decided to send the money to the methow chapter of the mule deer foundation, they said they would accept the funds and eartag them for habitat improvement, but that never happened because I was unclear about what amount to send? It was a busy time for me and I forgot to pursue it when I later had time. I'm quite busy right now with year end reports and then cougar hunting again soon, but if someone could total up the auctions we did and give me a number, I've got the checkbook and I could send a check if the methow chapter of MDF still wants it.
Post by: wolfbait on January 03, 2019, 11:11:17 AM
Year after year since 2009 I shared stories on here about the wolves decimating the deer,, and of course I got plenty of push back form the pro-wolf crowd, now, like parts of ID, MT, and Wyoming where wolves are thick there are very few ungulates.
The damage as been done, you might say the pro-wolf crowd won!
WA will never pull out of the over predation of it's game herds, WDFW will slow play any true measure of control. What has and is happening in the Methow, Okanogan and Ferry county etc. is happening in other parts of Wa. When you start seeing your game herds moving to town or homes, places they haven't before, you know you have a wolf problem.
The decline in ungulates is not about habitat, it is all about an over population of predators, with the wolf being the most destructive.
Hunt while you can, because WDFW has plans for no hunting in the future.
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2019, 11:24:06 AM
This is the listing of auctions that were done and a list of items I still have available for fundraising efforts.
Mule Deer Auctions
Auction...Price.....Buyer..............Payment...Item Status...Item Description...
1...........$250.....Rainier10...............Check.......Received......Rainshadow Knife
2...........$200.....50CalJim...............Check.......Received......Elknut Outdoors Vortex bino's
3...........$175.....Jacque..................Check.......Received......Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call
4...........$150.....Southpole..............Check.......Received.....Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call #2
5...........$100.....Boss .300 winmag...Paypal.......Received......Extreme Elk Magazine
6...........$165.....jrebel....................Paypal......Received......EVO Outdoors Tenzing weapon case
7...........$125.....mtncook................Paypal......Received......Bearpaw Outfitters Hunting Books
8...........$350.....ELKBURGER...........Check.......Organized....Western Life Outfitters Trail Ride
9...........$100.....vandeman17...........Paypal......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip
10.........$170.....Gringo31................Check......Organized....Nature's Way Taxidermy Euro mount
11.........$ 70.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Received......Elknut Outdoors DVD's
12.........$210.....bearpaw.................Check.......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Ladies Man"
13.........$ 60.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Shot Glass, Cocktail Glass (missing), Beer Tankard
14.........$ 55.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Bino System, Black Logo Hat
15.........$ 70.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Travel Mug, Coffee Mug (missing)
16.........$ 25.....Pygmy...................Paypal......Sent...........Tin Mule Deer Sign
17.........$200.....Rainier10................Check......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "A Breath of Glory"
18.........$250.....GUscottie...............Paypal......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Bachelor's Pad"
19.........$100.....Southpole..............Check.......Sent...........MDF Bag, MDF Black Logo Hat
20.........$105.....Orion88.................Check.......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip #2
21.........$205.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Sent...........MDF Cap, XXL Shirt, phone app
22.........$ 65.....Romulus1297..........Check.......Received......Handmade Broom
23.........$105.....Grundy53...............Paypal......Messaged.....Choice: MDF mug, glass, or cap
Sale.......$450.....MtnMuley...............Check.......Ordered.......The Bachelor’s Pad - A Breath of Glory
Sale.......$ 40.....jackelope..............................Received......OnxMAPS Phone App
Bitterbrush Plants to be Shipped in the Fall
On behalf of Go4steelhd……250 to the Methow Planting Team
On behalf of Grundy53………250 to the Methow Planting Team
Remaining Items To Sell or Auction
4500...Bitterbrush Plants
6........OnxMAPS Phone Apps
1........Mule Deer Horn Earings
1........Mule Deer Necklace & Earings
4........Mule Deer Playing Cards
6........MDF Key Rings
5........MDF Baseball Caps
5........MDF Coffee Mug
1........MDF Frosted Shot Glass
1........MDF Frosted Beer Tankard
5........MDF Frosted Glass
24.......MDF Drinking Glass
12.......MDF Wine Glass
1........Set of 4 Stone Mule Deer Coasters
6........MDF Window Decal
1........Set of 3 MDF Golf Balls
8........MDF Tall Beer Glass
1........MDF License Plate Holder
1........MDF Black T-Shirt XXL
There is $3795.00 here according to the numbers I highlighted. I've texted and emailed the Mule Deer Foundation Washington state rep. I will report back on what I'm told from here.
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2019, 01:30:36 PM
This is the listing of auctions that were done and a list of items I still have available for fundraising efforts.
Mule Deer Auctions
Auction...Price.....Buyer..............Payment...Item Status...Item Description...
1...........$250.....Rainier10...............Check.......Received......Rainshadow Knife
2...........$200.....50CalJim...............Check.......Received......Elknut Outdoors Vortex bino's
3...........$175.....Jacque..................Check.......Received......Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call
4...........$150.....Southpole..............Check.......Received.....Phelps Game Calls EZ Estrus Elk Call #2
5...........$100.....Boss .300 winmag...Paypal.......Received......Extreme Elk Magazine
6...........$165.....jrebel....................Paypal......Received......EVO Outdoors Tenzing weapon case
7...........$125.....mtncook................Paypal......Received......Bearpaw Outfitters Hunting Books
8...........$350.....ELKBURGER...........Check.......Organized....Western Life Outfitters Trail Ride
9...........$100.....vandeman17...........Paypal......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip
10.........$170.....Gringo31................Check......Organized....Nature's Way Taxidermy Euro mount
11.........$ 70.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Received......Elknut Outdoors DVD's
12.........$210.....bearpaw.................Check.......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Ladies Man"
13.........$ 60.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Shot Glass, Cocktail Glass (missing), Beer Tankard
14.........$ 55.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Bino System, Black Logo Hat
15.........$ 70.....Fastass350.............Paypal......Sent...........Travel Mug, Coffee Mug (missing)
16.........$ 25.....Pygmy...................Paypal......Sent...........Tin Mule Deer Sign
17.........$200.....Rainier10................Check......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "A Breath of Glory"
18.........$250.....GUscottie...............Paypal......Ordered.......Hayden Lambson art "The Bachelor's Pad"
19.........$100.....Southpole..............Check.......Sent...........MDF Bag, MDF Black Logo Hat
20.........$105.....Orion88.................Check.......Received......OnxMAPS GPS Chip #2
21.........$205.....go4steelhd.............Paypal.......Sent...........MDF Cap, XXL Shirt, phone app
22.........$ 65.....Romulus1297..........Check.......Received......Handmade Broom
23.........$105.....Grundy53...............Paypal......Messaged.....Choice: MDF mug, glass, or cap
Sale.......$450.....MtnMuley...............Check.......Ordered.......The Bachelor’s Pad - A Breath of Glory
Sale.......$ 40.....jackelope..............................Received......OnxMAPS Phone App
Bitterbrush Plants to be Shipped in the Fall
On behalf of Go4steelhd……250 to the Methow Planting Team
On behalf of Grundy53………250 to the Methow Planting Team
Remaining Items To Sell or Auction
4500...Bitterbrush Plants
6........OnxMAPS Phone Apps
1........Mule Deer Horn Earings
1........Mule Deer Necklace & Earings
4........Mule Deer Playing Cards
6........MDF Key Rings
5........MDF Baseball Caps
5........MDF Coffee Mug
1........MDF Frosted Shot Glass
1........MDF Frosted Beer Tankard
5........MDF Frosted Glass
24.......MDF Drinking Glass
12.......MDF Wine Glass
1........Set of 4 Stone Mule Deer Coasters
6........MDF Window Decal
1........Set of 3 MDF Golf Balls
8........MDF Tall Beer Glass
1........MDF License Plate Holder
1........MDF Black T-Shirt XXL
There is $3795.00 here according to the numbers I highlighted. I've texted and emailed the Mule Deer Foundation Washington state rep. I will report back on what I'm told from here.
Wheels are turning.
Post by: bearpaw on January 03, 2019, 02:09:46 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 04, 2019, 06:13:24 AM
Post by: bigmacc on January 04, 2019, 03:58:47 PM
I remember my dad telling me that back in the 40,s and 50,s that when you purchased your deer tag and lic. that sometimes you would get a bag of seeds to plant while you were out hunting or hiking. I also remember stopping in and visiting the Game department folks we knew and them giving us feed to drop during bad winters or seeds to plant while out and about, they always had both on hand, you just needed to ask......Key words-GAME DEPARTMENT, sorry. There are MANY REASONS that contribute to the downfall of our deer and elk in this state, but if you really sit and think about it AND think outside the box with an open mind while disregarding wallops by Mother Nature(which they also mis- handle I guess, sell more doe tags etc :bash:) most of those reasons in some way, shape or form always circle back to the WDFW and their mis- management of our herds. In a nutshell, the WDFW along with the politics of this state has done more harm to our deer and elk herds than anything.
Post by: huntnphool on January 04, 2019, 04:48:36 PM
I remember my dad telling me that back in the 40,s and 50,s that when you purchased your deer tag and lic. that sometimes you would get a bag of seeds to plant while you were out hunting or hiking. I also remember stopping in and visiting the Game department folks we knew and them giving us feed to drop during bad winters or seeds to plant while out and about, they always had both on hand, you just needed to ask......Key words-GAME DEPARTMENT, sorry.
Problem now is, those in the field hunting are intellectually inferior to those in the office with their liberal utopia degrees making decisions, and don't understand the complex relationship between ungulates and habitat. You can't simply spread seed around willy nilly, there must be studies done to maximize seed/plant efficiency vs buck/doe ratio's, managers to oversee each seed/seedling is planted in the most optimal location....what are ya, new? :chuckle:
Post by: bigmacc on January 04, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
I remember my dad telling me that back in the 40,s and 50,s that when you purchased your deer tag and lic. that sometimes you would get a bag of seeds to plant while you were out hunting or hiking. I also remember stopping in and visiting the Game department folks we knew and them giving us feed to drop during bad winters or seeds to plant while out and about, they always had both on hand, you just needed to ask......Key words-GAME DEPARTMENT, sorry.
Problem now is, those in the field hunting are intellectually inferior to those in the office with their liberal utopia degrees making decisions, and don't understand the complex relationship between ungulates and habitat. You can't simply spread seed around willy nilly, there must be studies done to maximize seed/plant efficiency vs buck/doe ratio's, managers to oversee each seed/seedling is planted in the most optimal location....what are ya, new? :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle:, guess I need to get out more :chuckle:
Post by: no.cen.wa on January 08, 2019, 08:48:28 AM
Sorry, I'm old and will be in Arizona till April :chuckle:but will see if I can make one when I get home.
So there you are, I've tried, have you?
John G
Post by: woodswalker on January 08, 2019, 09:15:41 AM
Perhaps an email to Mr. Fitkins @ Scott.Fitkin@dwf.wa.gov might be worth a try
Mr Tin Ear himself... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 08, 2019, 11:26:35 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 08, 2019, 11:31:11 AM
I am curious as to how many people emailed Mr. Fitkin and what kind of response they gotDid you and did he respond?
I didn’t I’m not familiar with the area or history of the mule deer population.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 08, 2019, 11:36:48 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 08, 2019, 01:34:09 PM
Yes I did and the reply was pretty much per what the news article in the Okanogan news paper reported. I. Said that predator control needs to be on top of the list and gave my reasoning. I said doe and special permits need to be reduced. He disagreed with me.It would be interesting to read the exchange - I assume if he disagreed with you he provided some rationale? I'm not sure I would support reducing special permits while there is an unlimited OTC tag for nearly all mule deer GMU's. :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on January 08, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
Yes I did and the reply was pretty much per what the news article in the Okanogan news paper reported. I. Said that predator control needs to be on top of the list and gave my reasoning. I said doe and special permits need to be reduced. He disagreed with me.It would be interesting to read the exchange - I assume if he disagreed with you he provided some rationale? I'm not sure I would support reducing special permits while there is an unlimited OTC tag for nearly all mule deer GMU's. :twocents:
The herd was strongest when there were far more hunters than today with OTC tags, the season was twice as long and there were no special permits.......hmmm.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 08, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 08, 2019, 02:26:02 PM
Yea...cut the special permits and double the general season so it extends into November...that will bring back the mule deer :rolleyes:Yes I did and the reply was pretty much per what the news article in the Okanogan news paper reported. I. Said that predator control needs to be on top of the list and gave my reasoning. I said doe and special permits need to be reduced. He disagreed with me.It would be interesting to read the exchange - I assume if he disagreed with you he provided some rationale? I'm not sure I would support reducing special permits while there is an unlimited OTC tag for nearly all mule deer GMU's. :twocents:
The herd was strongest when there were far more hunters than today with OTC tags, the season was twice as long and there were no special permits.......hmmm.
Post by: bigmacc on January 08, 2019, 03:18:01 PM
Cut out the doe tags, cut out the late tags and address the predator issue aggressively, by doing those 3 things I would bet you would be able to go back to a 2 week OTC rifle season ending on October 31st every year, and probably enjoy quality hunting again during the GENERAL SEASON!.... :twocents:
Post by: no.cen.wa on January 08, 2019, 09:07:32 PM
John G
Post by: MtnMuley on January 08, 2019, 10:07:57 PM
You're forgetting that with Fitkins line of thinking, adding doe tags will get that buck to doe ratio closer. I truly believe we'll never see the true muley numbers even close to where they once were.
Back to the main point this thread: Where is all the donated money that was supposed to be used to plant bitterbrush after the original Carlton Complex Fire?
I was told someone was asking about that money, it is in the WFW checking account (Chase Bank). If I remember correctly the bitter brush that was being raised accidentally died. It was decided to send the money to the methow chapter of the mule deer foundation, they said they would accept the funds and eartag them for habitat improvement, but that never happened because I was unclear about what amount to send? It was a busy time for me and I forgot to pursue it when I later had time. I'm quite busy right now with year end reports and then cougar hunting again soon, but if someone could total up the auctions we did and give me a number, I've got the checkbook and I could send a check if the methow chapter of MDF still wants it.
Thanks for your efforts and everybody elses in this deadend road idea. I really wished that following spring we could have made it happen. I believe the Methow Chapter of the MDF has basically moved to the Okanogan or similar name Chapter after the passing of a few organizers and dwindling number of members. Once this occurred, a new person took the helm. It was decided shortly after that a paid member of the Conservation Northwest organization be a committee member of the newly restructured/organized chapter. I was appalled and immediately withdrew my support for the chapter. Furthermore my point being, members of HW graciously donated money specifically for the recovery efforts of the Carlton Complex. Whether the ball was dropped (which I truly believe) or all these bitterbrush plants died (apparently there's only one place to buy these plants in North America), they never got planted. I personally do NOT want any part of doanating even a penny to this Chapter and will happily return the items I donated money for in their original unused form in the back of a closet, to where ever they need to go, and in return, will accept a check in the amount I originally donated. It's disgusting and sad it has to come down to this.
Post by: bearpaw on April 27, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
Hey Josh and Dale, just wanted you to know your money went in the ground today! We had 1,000 beautiful bitterbrush plugs and got them all hand planted on previously burned areas in the Methow WLA. We planted directly into burned bitterbrush skeletons to give some protective cover to the seedlings from deer and or cattle grazing. Rain is expected tomorrow (we had snow today planting) which is a great thing for survival. We also got some shrubs planted on the Golden Doe WLA and seed is ready to go for a fall seeding of some abandoned cropland acres. Here’s what I sent to our communication staff to put out on this:
Using plants purchased with money donated by Hunting Washington Forum, volunteers from Okanogan Trails Mule Deer Foundation Chapter& WDFW staff hand planted over 1,000 Bitterbrush Plugs into 150 acres of previously burned areas on the Methow Wildlife Area near Twisp, Wa, this weekend. Replacing Bitterbrush in burned areas is a high priority to improve wintering habitat for Mule Deer. Also, over 80 wildlife friendly shrubs were planted and fenced for protection in abandoned cropland areas on the Golden Doe Wildlife Area. In addition, grass and forb seed has now been purchased to re-seed 100 acres this fall on the Golden Doe WLA improving these areas for wildlife food and cover.
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2019, 07:04:00 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 29, 2019, 06:05:26 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 30, 2019, 12:26:05 PM
Love the photos of the bitter brush and the description of how they did it. I have tried planting seeds with no luck. After reading this I am going to buy some plugs and plant them as shown in the photos, right at the base of a burned bushed and hope for success. The place that I have bought my 5,000 pine seedlings from sells 20cubic inch bitter brush plugs for $5 each. Going to try 20 and see how they go. If they make it I will buy more.
Glad to see they got the plants in.
Post by: bearpaw on April 30, 2019, 12:37:31 PM
Awesome.
Love the photos of the bitter brush and the description of how they did it. I have tried planting seeds with no luck. After reading this I am going to buy some plugs and plant them as shown in the photos, right at the base of a burned bushed and hope for success. The place that I have bought my 5,000 pine seedlings from sells 20cubic inch bitter brush plugs for $5 each. Going to try 20 and see how they go. If they make it I will buy more.
Glad to see they got the plants in.
That is an awesome plan, I hope you are successful, every plant that goes in the ground will help wildlife. :tup: :tup:
Post by: no.cen.wa on April 30, 2019, 10:18:09 PM
Glad to see some are tiring to restore what they can, sorry I missed it.
John G
Post by: Dan-o on April 30, 2019, 10:46:50 PM
Post by: wolfbait on May 01, 2019, 05:29:20 AM
The only help the deer herds are going to get will have to come from the guns at this point, and even then I think it is too late.
Post by: headshot5 on May 01, 2019, 05:55:57 AM
Quote
What will we do with the guns sell them to make money to buy more Bitter brush?
I think he meant guns to remove predators.