Post by: COUG on September 14, 2015, 04:52:34 PM
Coug
Post by: Woodchuck on September 14, 2015, 04:57:01 PM
Post by: dimlight85 on September 14, 2015, 10:27:45 PM
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2015, 10:36:59 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 14, 2015, 10:42:32 PM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on September 15, 2015, 09:45:54 AM
You do not have a Right to enter someone else's property to retrieve an animal.. Could get a ticket for trespassing while hunting and since you shot an animal you could lose you license for 2 years.
Post by: CP on September 15, 2015, 10:01:47 AM
I've heard different things about this here but I'm new to hunting in WA and don't know which is true. It was my understanding that you had a right to retrieve an animal that was shot on your own property and fell on someone else's. It's always polite to ask the landowner to retrieve the animal but if they refuse and a game warden is involved and they refuse to allow you to retrieve the animal, they could be forced to tag it instead. I recently took the WA hunter's safety course and remember it covering a portion that discussed not shooting an animal on someone else's property and avoiding shooting animals over someone else's property like water fowl but this might just be a point of etiquette.
You need to get your "understanding" corrected ASAP. You have no right to trespass on private property and the government has no right to force anyone to tag an animal. This is not a point of etiquette, it is a point of property rights and criminal trespass.
Post by: Old Man Yager on September 15, 2015, 10:28:43 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 15, 2015, 10:34:36 AM
Headshot and he'll drop in his tracks
Assuming you don't blow his jaw off or a hit through his sinus area...
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 15, 2015, 10:41:12 AM
Seems to me, once they arevmade aware of the animal, their refusal to either let you retrieve it or them retrieve it for you becomes a violation on their part under the wastage laws...
Post by: WaHeadhunter on September 15, 2015, 11:02:16 AM
Quote
Seems to me, once they arevmade aware of the animal, their refusal to either let you retrieve it or them retrieve it for you becomes a violation on their part under the wastage laws...
Why would a poor decision on the part of the shooter who decides to risk not making a lethal attempt at killing a targeted animal be wastage on the part of a landowner? That makes no sense whatsoever, if you take the shot, be sure of your target and what it's possible escape routes are and where it might go, including adjoining private property.
That being said, if an injured animal runs to private property I'd say don't just follow it without 1st contacting the landowner about retrieving it, ask for permission not forgiveness in this case.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 15, 2015, 11:11:21 AM
Stuff just happens from time to time.
Yes, always be aware of where you are and what might happen, no arguement there.
Was just a question, seemed to me a legit one after reading the wastage law, as it appears it isn't a violation that is limited to the hunter specifically.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 15, 2015, 11:12:50 AM
Seems like if it was legitimentally shot on property you are legally allowed on, but crosses a property line you can't access without permission, then you ask permission and get denied, why is it if you have WDFW get involved, the property owner isn't or can't be charged at that point for knowingly wasting a game animal?US Constitution, elements of the 4th, 5th and 14th amendments. American private property rights for ordinary citizens are nearly unique in the protections afforded property owners against the government. Agents of the state do not have authority to violate your Constitutional rights. Agents of the state can, in most states, enter onto private property under the Open Fields doctrine if they reasonably believe hunting, fishing, trapping or other acts involving uses of publicly owned resources (e.g., rights of way, mineral rights) are occurring on that property, without the permission of the property owner, to investigate whether those uses are being conducted lawfully.
Seems to me, once they arevmade aware of the animal, their refusal to either let you retrieve it or them retrieve it for you becomes a violation on their part under the wastage laws...
Post by: Jonnyjammer on September 15, 2015, 11:14:13 AM
Post by: dimlight85 on September 15, 2015, 11:27:48 AM
Seems like if it was legitimentally shot on property you are legally allowed on, but crosses a property line you can't access without permission, then you ask permission and get denied, why is it if you have WDFW get involved, the property owner isn't or can't be charged at that point for knowingly wasting a game animal?
Seems to me, once they arevmade aware of the animal, their refusal to either let you retrieve it or them retrieve it for you becomes a violation on their part under the wastage laws...
This is a better way to put my "understanding". I fully understand trespassing and would politely request to retrieve an animal. I'm wondering if the WDFW officer could legally retrieve the animal. If he had just cause as a officer of the law, he/she could enter private property, particularly if the blood trail proved it was shot on my side.
On a side note, I didn't realize how many people are able to make such a perfect shot that an animal drops right where it's hit every single time. Maybe after I hit it, I'll ask it to please stay on my property if it's going to run.
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2015, 11:33:51 AM
The landowner of land on which an animal dies has no legal right to the animal, unless he legally killed it.Seems like if it was legitimentally shot on property you are legally allowed on, but crosses a property line you can't access without permission, then you ask permission and get denied, why is it if you have WDFW get involved, the property owner isn't or can't be charged at that point for knowingly wasting a game animal?
Seems to me, once they arevmade aware of the animal, their refusal to either let you retrieve it or them retrieve it for you becomes a violation on their part under the wastage laws...
This is a better way to put my "understanding". I fully understand trespassing and would politely request to retrieve an animal. I'm wondering if the WDFW officer could legally retrieve the animal. If he had just cause as a officer of the law, he/she could enter private property, particularly if the blood trail proved it was shot on my side.
On a side note, I didn't realize how many people are able to make such a perfect shot that an animal drops right where it's hit every single time. Maybe after I hit it, I'll ask it to please stay on my property if it's going to run.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12-287
He has no legal obligation to do anything. He is not obligated to allow anyone on his property to retrieve it. He may, at his complete discretion, allow someone on his property if asked. Most landowners would if approached politely and respectfully.
Of course no one makes perfects shots every time. The incidence of animals dying on someone else's property should be minimized by taking good shots, and not shooting at animals close to property on which it can't be retrieved.
Post by: CP on September 15, 2015, 11:46:38 AM
The bottom line is:
RCW 77.15.435-
(3) Unlawfully hunting on, retrieving hunted wildlife from, or collecting wildlife parts from the property of another is a misdemeanor.
If convicted you will lose your license and hunting privileges for 2 years and your animal must be seized by fish and wildlife officers.
Post by: h20hunter on September 15, 2015, 11:51:06 AM
I think you are clearly on the right path. If you think this may come up and know who to call that could assist with the recovery then that helps things if you are hunting a small area. Like the example CP noted there are plenty of folks that live in our state that would thumb their anti hunting nose at you out of spite and not think twice about blaming your for the wastage of the animal.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on September 15, 2015, 11:55:52 AM
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2015, 11:57:53 AM
I know a friend that did this for three years: asking the adjacent landowner if he would allow an animal that died on his property to be retrieved. In the third year, he told the hunter "I'm tired of you asking me every year - just hunt my property from now on." :tup:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 15, 2015, 12:00:32 PM
I participated in master hunter, damage control hunt a few years ago and the adjacent land owner was ferociously anti-hunter. We were instructed in no uncertain terms that if an animal was shot and crossed the fence we were to immediately contact the WDFW officer coordinating the hunt and leave the retrieval to him. He also made it clear that we would not be taking possession of any animal that crossed that property line.
The bottom line is:
RCW 77.15.435-
(3) Unlawfully hunting on, retrieving hunted wildlife from, or collecting wildlife parts from the property of another is a misdemeanor.
If convicted you will lose your license and hunting privileges for 2 years and your animal must be seized by fish and wildlife officers.
Was He, the property owner or the Officer overseeing the hunt?
Post by: dimlight85 on September 15, 2015, 12:01:08 PM
Post by: CP on September 15, 2015, 12:02:18 PM
I participated in master hunter, damage control hunt a few years ago and the adjacent land owner was ferociously anti-hunter. We were instructed in no uncertain terms that if an animal was shot and crossed the fence we were to immediately contact the WDFW officer coordinating the hunt and leave the retrieval to him. He also made it clear that we would not be taking possession of any animal that crossed that property line.
The bottom line is:
RCW 77.15.435-
(3) Unlawfully hunting on, retrieving hunted wildlife from, or collecting wildlife parts from the property of another is a misdemeanor.
If convicted you will lose your license and hunting privileges for 2 years and your animal must be seized by fish and wildlife officers.
Was He, the property owner or the Officer overseeing the hunt?
"He" was the officer - but "He" was relaying what the property owner had told him.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 15, 2015, 12:03:13 PM
Post by: CP on September 15, 2015, 12:06:37 PM
Thanks, interesting situation.
Yes, interesting, and I was amused to watch the elk digging holes in the anti-hunter’s well cared for front lawn.
Post by: ghosthunter on September 15, 2015, 12:19:59 PM
I sat all day waiting for elk to cross the fence in January. 3:30 pm over they come, I stalked to 60 yards.
Shot the lead cow heart lungs with a 30.06 .
She still made it back to the fence and jumped over died 50 yards over fence.
Guy watched me I had been warned not to cross.
Guy walked out to fence and asked if I killed the elk , yep I said sorry it went on your side. I will call the Game agent.
Guy said don't bother, come over and get your elk. He was a renter of the property, owner lived in Seattle.
Post by: tgomez on September 15, 2015, 12:40:28 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 15, 2015, 12:43:16 PM
Number two now you have contacted them first and told your side. If you don't call the WDFW and just walk away the property owner could call them and report you for wastage. It is a whole lot tougher to defend your actions at this point.
The other thing is that once the WDFW knows about it they will keep their eye on the carcass and make sure the landowner doesn't take the antlers or the meat for his own use. It won't go to waste there are a ton of scavengers that will benefit from the dead animal.
Given the option of letting you retrieve the animal or having it sit and rot, stink and attract a bunch of scavengers to the area most of the time the landowner will give in and let you retrieve.
Just my :twocents:
Post by: Bob33 on September 15, 2015, 12:58:10 PM
Instead of arguing or throwing out wild guesses why dont we call the game department and ask them? :dunno: :twocents: That would just be the smart thing to do. :tup:The question has been fully answered.
Post by: Woodchuck on September 15, 2015, 01:04:54 PM
Multiple times.
Post by: Buckmark on September 15, 2015, 01:23:15 PM
The other thing is that once the WDFW knows about it they will keep their eye on the carcass and make sure the landowner doesn't take the antlers or the meat for his own use. It won't go to waste there are a ton of scavengers that will benefit from the dead animal.Actually this is not entirely correct, as a property owner i would not be able to possess the animal or any parts of it for personal use, but i do have the right to dispose of the animal after contacting the WDFW or State patrol communications office.. So i don't have to just watch it sit and rot.
Given the option of letting you retrieve the animal or having it sit and rot, stink and attract a bunch of scavengers to the area most of the time the landowner will give in and let you retrieve.
Just my :twocents:
If you ask me and it is determined the animal made its way to my place and died (was not shot on my place) i would let you retrieve it, heck i would help you. If you just trespassed and i caught you depending on how the initial contact goes (your attitude etc) you may or may not be retrieving it, if you rolled up and shot it on my place im calling you in...
Post by: Jonnyjammer on September 15, 2015, 01:28:10 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 16, 2015, 07:18:31 AM
So after being contacted by the WDFW and telling them the hunter couldn't retrieve the animal and the WDFW officer saying okay but you know you can't keep it either it is now going to sit and rot you would then make a request to the WDFW or State Patrol communication office to exercise your right to dispose of it so it wouldn't rot on your property? It would just get disposed of somewhere else and the guy that shot it doesn't get it either? I guess that is your right as a property owner. :dunno:The other thing is that once the WDFW knows about it they will keep their eye on the carcass and make sure the landowner doesn't take the antlers or the meat for his own use. It won't go to waste there are a ton of scavengers that will benefit from the dead animal.Actually this is not entirely correct, as a property owner i would not be able to possess the animal or any parts of it for personal use, but i do have the right to dispose of the animal after contacting the WDFW or State patrol communications office.. So i don't have to just watch it sit and rot.
Given the option of letting you retrieve the animal or having it sit and rot, stink and attract a bunch of scavengers to the area most of the time the landowner will give in and let you retrieve.
Just my :twocents:
If you ask me and it is determined the animal made its way to my place and died (was not shot on my place) i would let you retrieve it, heck i would help you. If you just trespassed and i caught you depending on how the initial contact goes (your attitude etc) you may or may not be retrieving it, if you rolled up and shot it on my place im calling you in...
Post by: Jonnyjammer on September 16, 2015, 07:32:59 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on September 16, 2015, 07:51:16 AM
They will tell you call a Game agent. And it is at Game agents discretion how its handled. And that depends a lot on where you are in the state.
If you are in Winthrop and your animal enters private property. And you cannot secure permission on your own. You are out of luck. Because the Game Agent which was over there until recently would not help you.
We were told that he was so over run with Trespass complaints about hunters that it wasn't worth his time to get involved because in most cases the property owners would not allow access. And it was counter productive to his mission to force land owners to allow access.
You will get a different story in Whatcom or Skagit County you might have a chance over here.
If you are looking for a absolute positive answer on weather you will get your animal that crosses into Private Property where the land owner has refused you access that applies across this state you are going to be disappointed. There is no absolute policy.
This question is in every Hunter Ed manual in the state. What do you do if your animal enters private property? I have asked in my 28 years as instructor over 25 game agents this question. Not once, did I ever receive the same answer. :twocents:
Post by: fireweed on September 16, 2015, 01:21:20 PM
1) the land is apparently unimproved and unused
2) the land is NOT POSTED,
3)the land is not fenced
4)there are no crops other than TIMBER
5) the landowner has never told you personally to keep out
...and 6) and the landowner knows this law and you trust they won't shoot you anyway
" A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Similarly, a field fenced in any manner is not unimproved and apparently unused land. A license or privilege to enter or remain on improved and apparently used land that is open to the public at particular times, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner to exclude intruders, is not a license or privilege to enter or remain on the land at other times if notice of prohibited times of entry is posted in a conspicuous manner."