Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 06:59:28 AM

Title: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 06:59:28 AM: My brother in law is curious about buying a 357 for backpacking/hunting, and would like to try one out before buying. I can borrow a 357 but to be honest it would be easier for me to just download my S&W 629. so for you guys that have or shot both is there a 44 Special load that is about the equivalent of a 357? mostly in terms of recoil. I know it wont be exact just want to get him close. my 629 is a 6" FYI.

Thanks guys
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: CP on October 06, 2015, 07:10:23 AM: Felt recoil is influenced by the weight of the gun as well as the load fired. Downloading a 696 is unlikely to feel anything like firing a .357 in a smaller, lighter gun.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: theleo on October 06, 2015, 07:16:27 AM: It depends on what 357 he's planning on getting. If he wanted to get an air weight and run heavy loads through it hot 44 loads out of your gun might be appropriate. Shooting apples to apples (Black hawk 357 and 44 special of same barrel length barrel) a hot 158 from the 357 feels about equal to a 240 grainer going about 900 fps. Now the same hot 357 loads through my model 60 feel about equal to my 44 special with 240 doing around 1000 fps. It's all subjective though and grips make a difference. :twocents:
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: MP123 on October 06, 2015, 09:28:01 AM: A big heavy subsonic 44spl is going to recoil different than a relatively light supersonic 357. I'm not sure you could really simulate the 357 by downloading the 44, the blast and recoil are going to feel different and that's a good reason to try them both!
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 09:52:55 AM: The 357 he is looking at is a 6" Ruger GP100. The 357 I have access to is a 2" S&W 686...wouldn't even be close. I use to have access to a 6" Colt Python but that is now in the traded away history books (still pissed at that one, didn't even call me first). So I thought a 6" 629 would be similar to the 6" Ruger if I could find a load that was close to the same feeling as a 357. doesn't have to be perfect but pretty much none of the 44mag stuff I have now would be comparable, they are all the standard magnum fare of go fast hit hard stuff.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 01:18:38 PM: found some buffalo bore that's light weight and moving pretty good. still a bit heavy compared to a 357 but velocity is about the same and the 629 is a heavier gun. close maybe?

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-44-special-buffalo-bore-180gr-jhp-ammo
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Bofire on October 06, 2015, 05:42:45 PM: the gp100 is about as a heavy a 357 as there is, full house will be *censored* cats. Like 38 special in your model 60.
Carl
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Bigshooter on October 06, 2015, 05:53:36 PM: I'm guessing you reload. So pick whatever 240gr bullet you like and work up a load that will be around 900 - 1000fps. I don't care what you shoot that load through recoil is very mild.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: fly-by on October 06, 2015, 07:36:40 PM: Not an expert, but I'll weigh in anyway....

Is he looking for one gun for both hunting and backpacking? If so, he will have to make some kind of compromise.

Your 6" 629 would be great for hunting, not so great to for backpacking.

A 3" sp-101 would be great for backpacking but the barrel is not legal hunting length.

If I were limited to one gun for both purposes I would look at the 4 5/8" Bisley Blackhawk in .44 special. It will take some very stout loads, packs nicely, and is legal to hunt with.

I reload a lot of .44 special and a 180 xtp at 1000 fps has very light recoil and muzzle blast compared to most .357 loads, yet has ample penetration and expansion.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 08:36:12 PM: I don't know why he's sold on a 6" 357 but that's what he wants. I tried talking him into a 4" so you get the best of both worlds but some people get set on an idea. But like most people he wants to try before he buys. I no longer have access to a 6" 357. My 6" 629 however is easily accessible, just trying to help him out a bit. I know its not going to be spot on but overall his list of guns he's had experience with is a short one. Don't get me wrong he's shot before just not as many guns as say someone like myself. I know a 6" 357 is no biggie but he doesn't know that and explaining it is hard.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: pashok23 on October 06, 2015, 08:49:34 PM: S&W 629 all the way,love my gun.Always with me in grizz country.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: fly-by on October 06, 2015, 09:05:03 PM: Quote from: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 08:36:12 PM
I don't know why he's sold on a 6" 357 but that's what he wants. I tried talking him into a 4" so you get the best of both worlds but some people get set on an idea. But like most people he wants to try before he buys. I no longer have access to a 6" 357. My 6" 629 however is easily accessible, just trying to help him out a bit. I know its not going to be spot on but overall his list of guns he's had experience with is a short one. Don't get me wrong he's shot before just not as many guns as say someone like myself. I know a 6" 357 is no biggie but he doesn't know that and explaining it is hard.

If he wants a long .357, tell him to take a look at the 6.5" .357/9mm convertible Blackhawk. At 45oz it's not that heavy, however it is bulky. I ended up getting a shoulder rig for mine. Really fun to shoot and very flexible.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: mazama on October 07, 2015, 06:28:15 AM: I own a 357ruger,10mmglock,44special charterarms,41mag,44mag,-i carry the charter arms the most because it is light.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: thinkingman on October 07, 2015, 11:50:29 AM: Quote from: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 06:59:28 AM
My brother in law is curious about buying a 357 for backpacking/hunting, and would like to try one out before buying. I can borrow a 357 but to be honest it would be easier for me to just download my S&W 629. so for you guys that have or shot both is there a 44 Special load that is about the equivalent of a 357? mostly in terms of recoil. I know it wont be exact just want to get him close. my 629 is a 6" FYI.

Thanks guys
For backpacking/fishing/hunting sidearm I carry a SW 386 XL Hunter.
6" barrel and scandium frame.
7 rds.
30 oz.
Nice weight for carry and real .357 mag ballistics with a 6" barrel.

Let me know if you'd like to check it out.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: wreckerman5288 on October 07, 2015, 01:09:07 PM: I have a 6" Ruger Security Six, the predecessor to the GP100, and it is very controllable for any proficient handgunner shooting max loads of H110 under a variety of different bullet weights. The thing is most people who own handguns are not proficient in their use. I don't know about your buddy's experience with handguns, but even if he is a novice, with some tiime and money he should be able to attain proficiency with a .357.

As for the 6" barrel length, I think they suck to carry, they are too long and they are always in the way even with a high ride holster. The problem with the .357 is it really needs a 6" barrel to get .357 Magnum ballistics. 4" barrels are OK and anything shorter is lousy.

Honestly, for the type of predators we have in this state, I am more comfortable with an auto in .45 ACP or 10 mm. You get more rounds, no lousy DA trigger, and both rounds are capable if loaded with the right bullets. In the field I carry a Commander Size 1911 in .45, the same gun I carry at work and everywhere else. The only difference is when I'm outdoors its loaded with flat nosed 255 grain hard cast lead +P ammunition instead of 230 grain HSTs.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: fly-by on October 07, 2015, 07:01:20 PM: [/quote]
For backpacking/fishing/hunting sidearm I carry a SW 386 XL Hunter.
6" barrel and scandium frame.
7 rds.
30 oz.
Nice weight for carry and real .357 mag ballistics with a 6" barrel.

Let me know if you'd like to check it out.
[/quote]

Never heard of that model. Sounds like the perfect blend of light weight and good ballistics from the longer barrel.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: thinkingman on October 08, 2015, 07:38:03 AM: Quote from: fly-by on October 07, 2015, 07:01:20 PM

For backpacking/fishing/hunting sidearm I carry a SW 386 XL Hunter.
6" barrel and scandium frame.
7 rds.
30 oz.
Nice weight for carry and real .357 mag ballistics with a 6" barrel.

Let me know if you'd like to check it out.
[/quote]

Never heard of that model. Sounds like the perfect blend of light weight and good ballistics from the longer barrel.
[/quote]
Yep.
I used to carry a SW 686 4", which was a nice size but the weight was just excessive.
I can't imagine carrying a Ruger...Those things are built like boat anchors.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: HighRoad on October 24, 2015, 10:51:16 AM: Quote from: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 06:59:28 AM
My brother in law is curious about buying a 357 for backpacking/hunting, and would like to try one out before buying. I can borrow a 357 but to be honest it would be easier for me to just download my S&W 629. so for you guys that have or shot both is there a 44 Special load that is about the equivalent of a 357? mostly in terms of recoil. I know it wont be exact just want to get him close. my 629 is a 6" FYI.

Thanks guys

Should one want to lean toward .357 for trail gun, I recommend the SP-101 w/4" barrel. It's light on the hip for comfortable all day carry, rides close with narrow 5-shot cylinder, feels great in hand with Hogue grip, easy to shoot with utility load of 158g cast over 6.5g of Unique. This one now goes out more often than my .44 Flattop.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1135_zpscdcd3b18.jpg&hash=3f79fe69555cea18dda85bec8c8bf147807fffc8) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1135_zpscdcd3b18.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1134_zpsac86775c.jpg&hash=d477f97ce7a24df3a212efa3cf1929419621325e) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1134_zpsac86775c.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1171_zpsa5681a06.jpg&hash=ddbf991890b9ba6f0ba5eef99b171a91a880aeb1) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1171_zpsa5681a06.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Smokepole on October 24, 2015, 11:02:36 AM: I load ammo for both .357 and .44 special. Both real capable guns if you load your own. If he doesn't load his own ammo, he would be best to go with the .357. He can target practice with cheap 38's and there is a lot of magnum ammo available.

For someone who loads ammo, it's a toss up. :twocents:
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: magnanimous_j on October 24, 2015, 11:19:58 AM: Quote from: HighRoad on October 24, 2015, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Mongo Hunter on October 06, 2015, 06:59:28 AM
My brother in law is curious about buying a 357 for backpacking/hunting, and would like to try one out before buying. I can borrow a 357 but to be honest it would be easier for me to just download my S&W 629. so for you guys that have or shot both is there a 44 Special load that is about the equivalent of a 357? mostly in terms of recoil. I know it wont be exact just want to get him close. my 629 is a 6" FYI.

Thanks guys

Should one want to lean toward .357 for trail gun, I recommend the SP-101 w/4" barrel. It's light on the hip for comfortable all day carry, rides close with narrow 5-shot cylinder, feels great in hand with Hogue grip, easy to shoot with utility load of 158g cast over 6.5g of Unique. This one now goes out more often than my .44 Flattop.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1135_zpscdcd3b18.jpg&hash=3f79fe69555cea18dda85bec8c8bf147807fffc8) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1135_zpscdcd3b18.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1134_zpsac86775c.jpg&hash=d477f97ce7a24df3a212efa3cf1929419621325e) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1134_zpsac86775c.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq156%2FJeffMacey%2FIMG_1171_zpsa5681a06.jpg&hash=ddbf991890b9ba6f0ba5eef99b171a91a880aeb1) (http://s443.photobucket.com/user/JeffMacey/media/IMG_1171_zpsa5681a06.jpg.html)

those grips look really good.
Title: Re: 44 Special and 357 experts
Post by: Bofire on October 24, 2015, 04:52:50 PM: I own and love a 6 inch 357 mag. a model 19/66/686 etc area all cool. My sons Security six is cool. easy to shoot, accurate, good power. 38 special thru 180 grain hardcast, long sight radius. what is not to like?

Carl