Post by: bknilvr00 on November 02, 2015, 12:51:14 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 02, 2015, 12:52:32 PM
Post by: emac on November 02, 2015, 01:47:27 PM
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 02, 2015, 01:48:56 PM
I have a good bit of experience with this cartridge in both AR rifles and bolt guns. There are by far better choices for her. 7mm-08 or 308 would be great. Both can be loaded down to be very quiet and kill way better then a 300blk. The 300blk has it's place and we have killed a few critters with mine.
One other thing. If you don't have a suppressor already you better get on it. I have a few friends that are at 13 month wait times for the initial suppressor. I got one back in 3 months a few months back but I think that's because I already had stuff setup with my others.
Post by: bullfisher on November 02, 2015, 07:03:33 PM
Post by: yorketransport on November 02, 2015, 07:19:21 PM
Run a 125-130gr bullet at 1900-2000fps through a suppressor and you'd have a quiet and efficient mid range (<150 yard) deer killer.
Andrew
Post by: JJB11B on November 02, 2015, 07:49:50 PM
Post by: bknilvr00 on November 03, 2015, 06:23:26 AM
When you guys say close range is that under 200 yards? 100? 50? I'm fairly comfortable shooting to take a poke at 200, but she is a novice shooter. So a long range tack driver isn't necessarily needed.
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2015, 07:29:15 AM
Post by: 300rum on November 03, 2015, 07:55:55 AM
My rifle is set up with a full size BCG, an adjustable gas block, and a very good comp (hearing protection required). Buy a pair of Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs and put them in your pocket.
I have been kicking around the idea of putting a "can" on it but I see no reason to load sub-sonic so I would have to wear hearing protection anyway.
Post by: Yondering on November 03, 2015, 10:10:20 AM
I would stay away from the AR-15 type platform and go with a DPMS LR type AR10 build.
The OP asked about a cartridge that fits the AR15, not something 308-size to fit the AR10. Your suggestion means more weight, more recoil, and definitely louder.
To the OP - don't sweat the caliber decision too much. In an AR15, the difference between a 300 Blk and 5.56 is just a barrel and gas tube; you can always change it later. Bolt, mags, etc are all the same.
6.8 is certainly a valid choice too; ammo is cheap and it's a modest improvement in power over the 5.56. It will require specific mags and a 6.8 bolt though, just FYI. I'm using ACS mags, they seem OK.
Your goal of hunting suppressed without ear protection is perfectly reasonable. I usually still wear plugs for extended shooting, like in a ground squirrel colony, but often shoot my suppressed ARs without ear proteciton too. If running full power, suppressed, all of those rounds sound about the same to my ears. The 300 may be slightly quieter, but it's not a big difference, the supersonic crack is most of the noise anyway. All of them are right at the edge of my comfort level for multiple shots; for just a shot or two while hunting they are fine.
Post by: Yondering on November 03, 2015, 10:12:54 AM
Post by: lamrith on November 03, 2015, 10:22:38 AM
One other comment - contrary to a lot of claims online, a suppressed 300 Blk, even with subsonics, is not "nearly silent" or "quiet as a suppressed .22". The action noise in an AR is significant, and subsonic loads that cycle an AR action are louder than you'd expect from watching youtube videos.Yes sound at the shooter is louder than to the sides in the AR platform. Pretty good pop from the action on each shot. Stand a few feet away to side and it is much quieter..
Also realize that an AR (unless you do a specific light weight build) will be heavier than a bolt gun. May not seem important, but after a few days/miles of hiking it can add up. My AR I just hunted with was 9.75#+ammo and after 6days hiking mtns you notice the extra weight. Bolt gun would be lighter and quieter if shooting subsonics and the can... That said I prefer the AR platform so that is what I hunted with.
300blk is a viable hunting round you just need to be conscious of it's limitations, and choose appropriate ammo/shots.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 03, 2015, 10:53:32 AM
Back in the old days when it was called the 300 Whisper :chuckle: , I used to shoot one out of 10" Contender. It's not a power house but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with one at a reasonable range. In fact I shot my deer last year with a 30 Herrett at about 85 yards with a 130gr TTSX out of a 10" Contender and he was DRT. The 30 Herrett from a 10" barrel is just a touch behind the Blackout from a 16" barrel.
Run a 125-130gr bullet at 1900-2000fps through a suppressor and you'd have a quiet and efficient mid range (<150 yard) deer killer.
Andrew
I don't have skin in the game, nor do I have direct experience, but I have done a little research.
The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform, although at subsonic velocities, I wonder what benefit it would be as a general hunting platform over what some others listed here (such as the above) would provide.
There are many out there with regrets or at least dissension over the utility of the 300 BO.
Here's one such write up and a bit of a subsequent walk back.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/05/22/300-aac-blackout/
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/03/19/anti-300-blackout-soapbox-downsized/
That said, don't let me dissuade anyone from a new rifle purchase.
Post by: h20hunter on November 03, 2015, 10:57:46 AM
Post by: Yondering on November 03, 2015, 12:58:00 PM
The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform,
That's only half of it. It's real "claim to fame" is as a dual-use cartridge, that can duplicate 7.62x39 (AK) ballistics and also run quiet subsonic loads from the same platform. People who try to put it in a "subsonic only" category are missing its versatility.
Post by: bknilvr00 on November 03, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 03, 2015, 02:02:25 PM
I have put probably 1000 rounds through several guns, both semi auto and bolt guns. With subsonic, loads the action cycling in a semi auto is louder then the shot with a suppressor. In a bolt gun it is truly nearly silent. If you are running a semi auto and just look at the noise coming from the bullet going down range it's nearly silent as well. The clank of running a semi auto is not the factor you look at when it come to hearing protection and being able to run suppressed :chuckle:
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 03, 2015, 02:30:15 PM
The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform,
That's only half of it. It's real "claim to fame" is as a dual-use cartridge, that can duplicate 7.62x39 (AK) ballistics and also run quiet subsonic loads from the same platform. People who try to put it in a "subsonic only" category are missing its versatility.
True. The point was that the 7.62x39 does 7.62x39, but cheaper. It doesn't do subsonic (conventionally), and it doesn't do AR that well from many accounts. That's where the 300 BO stands out, IMO.
Post by: superdown on November 03, 2015, 03:19:36 PM
Post by: bknilvr00 on November 06, 2015, 10:27:52 AM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 06, 2015, 10:45:57 AM
Post by: h20hunter on November 06, 2015, 10:58:05 AM
Post by: lamrith on November 06, 2015, 11:32:34 AM
Yes and its a better choice then the 300blk for hunting.:yeah:
Probably one of the best AR calibers imho. You have a hunting legal caliber in most states, very mellow recoil, 6.5 bullets have phenominal BC so they fly farther and flatter than 308. Fits in Std AR15, in fact it is only bolt (not full bcg), barrel and mags to convert. You CAN get away with AR mags though some people have feeding issues, so just grab a few 6.5 mags and you are set. People have taken elk to 400yrds with the caliber, but like anything you need to do the research and understand round limitations and make proper bullet/shot choice. The 6.5 as a bullet has been taking large game for centuries, but you have to make sure it has energy on target.
This is not a subsonic oriented caliber though like 300blk is designed to do.
Could just make things easy on yourself, Just get both like I did!
Post by: Goshawk on December 20, 2015, 10:36:00 AM
What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 20, 2015, 03:14:19 PM
Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.
What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?
Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.
Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.
Post by: JDHasty on December 20, 2015, 04:38:19 PM
As for the round, it is OK in the hands of an expert tracker.
Post by: lamrith on December 21, 2015, 08:15:14 AM
Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.
What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?
Not that hard to figure out, know the velocity the rounds open at, many popular ones are 1800ish if I recall correctly (450yrds with my setup), the 129ABLR is 1300 (800yrds with my setup).. Metal projectile hitting living flesh and bone at over 1000fps.
As Biggerhammer said, put it where it belongs and go fill your freezer.
Pretty much every firearm has significantly more energy than archery gear at impact. MODERN archery equipment is only putting out KE in the 70-80ft/# range. And the old traditional gear that produces significantly less energy has been taking game for centuries. placement placement placement. Take out both lungs and you have a dead animal that will not go far if at all.
As for AR hunting, not as bad as some make it seem. They are no heavier than a bolt gun depending on set-up. My AR with HEAVY glass and mount is 9.75#. The gun itself with just iron sights though is 7.4# which is right in line with many bolt guns.
Post by: JDHasty on December 21, 2015, 10:27:59 AM
They are miserable to carry in the field compared to a bolt action, lever action or a single shot. It is due to how they are configured and sometimes the weight. "Not as bad..." kind of sums it up for me, they are tolerable IF I am getting value added and only when I am getting value added by choosing an AR. For the most part, unless I am predator calling a I just simply don't care to use an AR because they are not as easy to pack around in the field all day at the ready as is a conventional rifle or carbine. If I am hauling it in and setting up that makes an AR a good choice for me, but for my purposes that is the only situation that I can think of where I would not MUCH rather be using a good bolt gun in the field.
As for the effectiveness of the round? It is marginal at best, IF you are an expert tracker it is probably OK. It is not going to ever be a round that delivers reliable massive internal organ destruction and as a person who has seen blacktails shot through both lungs with a 12 ga slug go a hundred yards I would not recommend it for hunting in western Washington where heavy brush and heavy rain make a good HEAVY blood trail a necessity. A deer with a 30 caliber entrance wound and no exit wound that goes a few hundred yards has a pretty good chance of not being tracked and this round simply does not have much energy and therefore terminal performance of the bullet is going to be very dependent on what range you shoot the game at.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 21, 2015, 01:00:30 PM
Post by: JDHasty on December 21, 2015, 01:34:20 PM
There's 20 plus AR chamberings other than .223/5.56 plenty capable of taking game at distance?
A 30 Carbine is capable of taking game at distance. Is a reliable big game caliber? No absolutely not. Yes it is effective at close range, but is it a reliable big game cartridge? No.
There are MUCH better options for deer hunting than most every round that the AR15 is capable of being chambered for. There are MUCH better options for a big game hunting rifle or carbine than an AR10.
Post by: JDHasty on December 21, 2015, 01:43:57 PM
Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.
What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?
Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.
Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.
Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period.
Post by: JDHasty on December 21, 2015, 02:06:18 PM
Hogwash! Shoot a field trip through both lungs of a deer and it is more likely than not that it will cover a LOT of ground before it dies. Archery big game arrows are tipped by razor sharp broadheads that cut a hole close to or exceeding an inch in diameter. Archers do not rely on expansion of a projectile to cause shock and to expand a bullet, they rely on massive hemorrhaging and a bullet that does not expand may, or may not, accomplish sufficient hemorrhage to result in an animal expiring before covering a lot of ground.
Post by: fly-by on December 21, 2015, 02:25:32 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on December 21, 2015, 04:07:41 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 21, 2015, 06:17:31 PM
Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.
What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?
Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.
Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.
Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period.
Opinions may vary and ours definitely do. :tup: You drive yours and we'll drive ours.
411 yards, 16" 6.5 Grendel 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip, put it in there and they die. Alexander barrel I have since reworked the rifle for him. ;). Make over carbine second photo.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FIMG_9196_zpsnc0epcso.jpg&hash=22d1d3000b7fb693766f1ac6ce2fb7785d141c5a) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9196_zpsnc0epcso.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FIMG_9535_zps08875607.jpg&hash=16384f60eaaca0a02539c5f98303a59056904307) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9535_zps08875607.jpg.html)
Post by: JDHasty on December 21, 2015, 08:44:12 PM
Here is a site that will calculate them for you. This methodology was developed after having personal, first hand, experience shooting THOUSANDS of big game rifles.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp
There are other methodologies, but this one is one of the most widely accepted.
Thornily is another widely accepted methodology
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm?v1=120&v3=.243&v2=2500
One or two, or even a few dozen animals are not sufficient to make generalizations from.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 21, 2015, 09:25:22 PM
Taylor Knock Out Values were developed by John Taylor as a way to quantify the ability of various cartridges to ensure HUMANE ONE SHOT KILLS when an animal is hit in the vitals.
Here is a site that will calculate them for you. This methodology was developed after having personal, first hand, experience shooting THOUSANDS of big game rifles.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp
There are other methodologies, but this one is one of the most widely accepted.
Thornily is another widely accepted methodology
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm?v1=120&v3=.243&v2=2500
One or two, or even a few dozen animals are not sufficient to make generalizations from.
Keep reading....
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 21, 2015, 10:18:49 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 22, 2015, 05:04:51 AM
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: fly-by on December 22, 2015, 05:56:12 AM
If you want the flat trajectory and foot pounds energy of a supersonic load there are choices with much better ballistics than the .300 BLK that fit in an AR-15 sized platform. These rounds generally need a longer barrel to run efficiently. You will also need a rifle can and it still will not technically be hearing safe. However, the Blackout does fine out to a couple hundred yards with 110-130 grain supers even out of short barrels if you want the flexibility of subs and supers in one rifle or pistol.
The attached pistol has a 10.5" barrel and is wearing a Silencerco Specwar.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2015, 09:42:18 AM