Post by: JJB11B on November 14, 2015, 09:26:11 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 14, 2015, 09:35:49 PM
Post by: PiNkPaNtHeR on November 15, 2015, 12:01:05 AM
So with that, I'll be following this thread. I know some of you know some really cool stuff that you like to share. I'd like to learn some of that.
Post by: pope on November 15, 2015, 04:24:13 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Outdoor-Skills-Wilderness-Survival/dp/1551051222 (http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Outdoor-Skills-Wilderness-Survival/dp/1551051222)
Post by: Red leaf 67 on November 15, 2015, 04:33:05 AM
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 15, 2015, 07:57:33 AM
Post by: jasnt on November 15, 2015, 08:33:43 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 15, 2015, 08:37:31 AM
Post by: PiNkPaNtHeR on November 15, 2015, 09:13:28 AM
The Backwoodsman Magazine is a great resource if any one hasn't checked it out. They also have three best of volumes of articles from past issues.Yup - been reading it for years. I really like it. Wish I had all the volumes like I do Mother Earth News & Backwoods Home Magazine on CD ROM.
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
Hoping for some real good snow fall so we can build snow shelters and camp out in them for the winter!I have done that! 12 feet of snow, was an awesome experiance
Post by: pope on November 15, 2015, 02:06:20 PM
Hoping for some real good snow fall so we can build snow shelters and camp out in them for the winter!I have done that! 12 feet of snow, was an awesome experiance
That's how I got out of going to prom, senior year in high school. Mandatory snow cave field trip with the Mountaineers. Dates just happened to coincide. Saved a bunch of money and had twice the fun.
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 02:21:08 PM
Methods of building different types of structures
redneck engineering kinds of stuff.
If anyone has done projects like these and has pictures and instructions or tips on how to do things, post them up.
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 03:18:22 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 15, 2015, 03:31:53 PM
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 15, 2015, 04:18:38 PM
I would like to discuss things such as primitive tanning
There are several ways to skin this cat (and all cats for that matter). I have one way I've been tanning hides for years that works nice. I'd be more than happy to start this one. Are you planning on getting a separate community as stated or are we starting the post right here?
One caution while talking about survival... there are several ways to do things and all should be discussed; there is no right or wrong way to survive, only that you lived or died and all the misery or happiness in between. Some folks will have easier ways to accomplish projects and some will have "their way" to accomplish the same project. Survival is different from the east coast to the west coast and from the spring through the fall. There are adaptations to every technique even between morning and evening, spring and fall, elevation, and personal agenda. :twocents:
Really looking forward to the discussions
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 04:20:04 PM
I have read a lot about brain tanning and never seem to take the time to do it. I think I am going to change that this year.
Post by: JODakota on November 15, 2015, 05:08:29 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
I'd like to build one of these that is charcoal fired...
Post by: cbond3318 on November 15, 2015, 08:21:12 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 15, 2015, 08:34:37 PM
Post by: summertime blues on November 15, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on November 15, 2015, 09:04:31 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 15, 2015, 09:33:05 PM
:twocents: I think this would be a great thread and inevitably be loaded with useful information. It may be helpful to do maybe a weekly or monthly topic of discussion to keep information pointed and organized. Either way, I will be tagging along and hopefully contributing.Im thinking of a whole new category so we can have threads under this subject
Post by: jasnt on November 16, 2015, 05:15:57 AM
I second that. :tup::twocents: I think this would be a great thread and inevitably be loaded with useful information. It may be helpful to do maybe a weekly or monthly topic of discussion to keep information pointed and organized. Either way, I will be tagging along and hopefully contributing.Im thinking of a whole new category so we can have threads under this subject
Post by: NorseNW on November 16, 2015, 05:34:55 AM
Post by: KFhunter on November 16, 2015, 09:02:33 AM
I was pretty good with wrist rockets and sling shots as a kid, but not in this guy's league!
Post by: kellama2001 on November 16, 2015, 12:26:45 PM
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 16, 2015, 04:33:29 PM
First off you need to decide what you plan to use the leather for. Thickness of leather directly effects the stiffness once complete. Everything from Rabbit to Raccoon to Beaver or Deer, Elk or Moose. The thinner the hide, the softer you can make it, although you can make even an elk hide pretty soft. Also what part you plan to use... the belly is a lot thinner on most animals, where as the neck, back and butt is very thick, so when you dress out the animal, its good to know what your plans are.
I think the easiest skin to work with and procure is deer since most on here already hunts them and have buddies that do the same. Word of caution; if your buddy gives you his animal hides, copy down his Wild ID number and Name no different then if he was giving you meat. This way if someone questions why you have 15 deer hides this year, you can prove where they came from.
I like to clean the flesh side of the deer as soon as it comes off the animal. I built a simple fleshing beam and use a fleshing knife, although a draw knife or any type edge will work. I've even used a folding Army shovel before. Make sure the edge you are using isn't round, however not sharp either... sharp equals sewing later on. You should be able to run your hand over the edge without making a trip to the hospital. My fleshing beam is a half of a lodge pole tree. The end is rounded off and it's attached to a base with a hinge. This way I can lift up the beam and put the hide between the beam and base to hold it in place. It stands up so the front of the beam is at waist level on me, so I can scrape away from me by bending over it comfortably. If you can't flesh the hide right away or your getting them from a buddy, I just have them throw it into a garbage bag and freeze it. Works the same although it seems more difficult getting the meat and fascia (connecting tissue) off after it's been frozen.
I work from the middle of a hide to the outside. Basically you are scraping the meat, veins, fascia and anything else off the hide. You should be left with a clean (all most white) inside of the hide. Make sure you put down a drop cloth for easy cleanup! I also put a garbage bag around my waist to keep from having blood soaked clothing... your choice! :chuckle:
Now, you can throw the cleaned hide back into the freezer, salt it, or just air dry it until you are ready to continue... or just keep going. I've been able to do an entire deer hide in one day; with hair on that is.
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 16, 2015, 04:54:04 PM
I like to use a wet scrape technique to take the hair off. That means once you have the inside clean, I soak it in water to swell the hide and basically give it "dish Pan hands". As the hide soaks up the water the hair and connective tissue will begin to slip off the leather. There are a couple of key items to discuss here!
1) Make sure you do this out side because soaking a hide in water, more so in the summer will begin to stink.
2) You will need to exchange the water approximately every 12 hours to avoid the hide going rancid on you. I've heard of folks weighting the hide down in a creek to complete the same step; however I don't have a creek to use so never tried it. Weight the hide down so it's completely submerged.
3) You can add pot ash (lye) from your stove to help decrease the amount of time this takes.
You want to be able to grab a hand full of fur and be able to pull it out of the hide, that is when you know it's ready. I like to grab the fur on a spot that is thicker leather (neck, back or butt) because then I know if it's slipping there, it's slipping everywhere.
Now it's back to the fleshing beam to pull off the fur. Work against the fur by pushing to out of the hide. For this step you need to get the connective tissue the fur is being held in by. Failure to get this connective tissue off will result in stiff spots on the finished product. The hair side should look the same as the meat side...
There is a dry scrape technique you can use. This requires the hide to be placed on a rack and stretched tight. As it drys, you can use a scrapper to scrap the hair and tissue off the hide. I don't like to use this technique because....
1) It always seams that you dig to much into the leather. Thinning it in places you don't want thin!
2) Dry hides are very brittle and punching holes through them is not funny :bash:
3) This to me is harder work then the wet scrape! Also running cord through holes and constantly tightening them is very time consuming.
If you do punch a hole through a hide, dental floss works great for sewing it closed and normally will hold during the rest of the process.
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 16, 2015, 05:13:27 PM
OK - so now you should have a clean hide inside and out. Inspect it carefully and fix any area that might need more attention or sew up any holes. Its important prior to moving on to tanning the leather that you have cleaned it well or you run the risk of having hard spots on the final product.
Once again, you can stop here and freeze the hide, or dry it until you want to do more. As I'm sure a few of you are thinking, I work a few hides at a time moving through the steps.
Now it's time to tan the hide! Important that you wear gloves for this step! You can tan your own hide! :bdid:
Depending on how you left your hide from the last step, I get mine wet again to tan it.
I use brains to tan the hides I have. Now you can open the skull of your animal and scope the brains out when you make the kill and freeze them until this time, or most butcher shops will sell brains by the pound. Every animal (expect humans) have enough tannin in their brain to tan their own hide. I don't know who figured out humans don't and frankly I don't want to know!
I blend the brains until they are spaghetti sauce thick (pour easily) hopefully there are no Spaghetti lovers out there gagging at my reference, adding water to thin them out. About a 1/2 pound of brains per hide. Don't start this step until you are ready to go to work. Brains don't keep but a day, so you need to complete this step.
Now I take the wet hide and wring it out. I rap the hide around to sticks and wring it out good and then right into the brains. "WITH GLOVES ON" I work the hide as it wants to soak moisture back into itself around in the brains. Maybe 5 mins of stirring it around and then let sit for 30 mins. Then I'll pull it out and wring it again and repeat the process. Basically you want the brains to penetrate all the way through the hide and in every corner. It doesn't hurt to repeat this process a few times, however there comes a point when enough is enough. I simple wring the brains back into the container I'm using and use the brains left for other hides.
This is you last chance for a break, so if you need one, freeze the hide until you want to proceed.
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 16, 2015, 05:28:04 PM
If you left the hide to dry right now, it would dry hard like a drum. The brains will preserve the hide, however we want to make it soft. At this point, you need to continue to work until the hide is dry or freeze it until later. If you stop short of a dry hide, any moisture will cause it to stiffen up. :tup:
I like to do this step in the summer time so it doesn't take forever... or you can use a wood stove in a garage to keep it warm. You need to break the hide as it drys.
Think of leather as a million Olympic rings connected that need to be separated. Breaking the rings apart is what makes it soft and it needs to be dry to stay that way... (If you make it soft and then let it dry it will be stiff. Water helps the rings reconnect). A lot of work for nothing! :yike:
So -- you can work the hide around a cable, or here is where i like to tie it tight on a rack and work it with a axe handle and canoe paddle. You simple can't mess with the hide enough. When working an elk or moose, I used to invite all the neighborhood kids over and they would use the hide as a trampoline. You need to stretch the hide as much as possible by pushing the axe handle or canoe paddle into the leather as much as possible. Tearing the hide shouldn't happen at this point unless it's a thin hide (Rabbit is very hard to soften without ripping). Keep working the hide, pushing, twisting, running over a cable, or stretching it until you thinks its dry... then do it some more!
You don't want any moisture to ruin this process. Once soft, move on to the last step or make sure it keeps dry. Don't leave around your dog, I know a guy who lost a nice hide because he left it over a chair and the dog found it tasty.
Post by: Expedition Scout on November 16, 2015, 05:45:30 PM
Smoking the hide puts "RESIN" from the wood into the hide and prevents the "Olympic rings" from connecting again if it gets wet. (hopefully that makes sense to everyone. It also can give it a nice color, lighter or darker depending on time and wood used. The resin fills the space inside the leather that you created by breaking it.
You need to use a dry smoke! I worked with a guy that smoked a hide just like you smoke meat using wet wood chips and it came out hard as a rock! What a waste and back to the softening step you go.
I use bone dry and rotten cottonwood. I look for punky wood and bring it home and keep it in my wood shed just for this reason. Punky wood so it doesn't start on fire, just smolders.
Take the hide and sew it together to form a sock, I have a pant leg from a pair of jeans that I sew on the bottom to keep it further away from the heat... we don't want to cook the hide, only apply smoke throughout the skin. I have a round charcoal grill with a smoke stack attached to it that I use. Sitting on the ground the stack sticks up about 4 feet. I hang the hide in a tree and lower the tube until the jean is over the stack. I use charcoal to start the fire inside and apply the rotten cotton wood over the top to keep it smoking good. About 30 mins then flip inside out for consistent color. If color isn't a big deal, then one side is enough. Once you are finished, with the smoke, you should be good to go!
I will leave the hides hang in the garage and let them off gas for a few days or a week to get rid of the heavy smoke smell prior to working further with them. Now if you get them wet or wash them, you might need to soften a little bit to get back to your original condition.
Now you can turn your hard work into something!
Post by: JJB11B on November 16, 2015, 05:49:10 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 16, 2015, 05:50:05 PM
OK -- now its time to smoke the hide.Thank you for breaking it down the way you did, Tons of videos of this on youtube but most do a poor job of explaining the process, Great posts Thanks for sharing!
Smoking the hide puts "RESIN" from the wood into the hide and prevents the "Olympic rings" from connecting again if it gets wet. (hopefully that makes sense to everyone. It also can give it a nice color, lighter or darker depending on time and wood used. The resin fills the space inside the leather that you created by breaking it.
You need to use a dry smoke! I worked with a guy that smoked a hide just like you smoke meat using wet wood chips and it came out hard as a rock! What a waste and back to the softening step you go.
I use bone dry and rotten cottonwood. I look for punky wood and bring it home and keep it in my wood shed just for this reason. Punky wood so it doesn't start on fire, just smolders.
Take the hide and sew it together to form a sock, I have a pant leg from a pair of jeans that I sew on the bottom to keep it further away from the heat... we don't want to cook the hide, only apply smoke throughout the skin. I have a round charcoal grill with a smoke stack attached to it that I use. Sitting on the ground the stack sticks up about 4 feet. I hang the hide in a tree and lower the tube until the jean is over the stack. I use charcoal to start the fire inside and apply the rotten cotton wood over the top to keep it smoking good. About 30 mins then flip inside out for consistent color. If color isn't a big deal, then one side is enough. Once you are finished, with the smoke, you should be good to go!
I will leave the hides hang in the garage and let them off gas for a few days or a week to get rid of the heavy smoke smell prior to working further with them. Now if you get them wet or wash them, you might need to soften a little bit to get back to your original condition.
Now you can turn your hard work into something!
Post by: JJB11B on November 17, 2015, 04:30:03 AM
Post by: jasnt on November 17, 2015, 07:27:33 AM
I registered on bushcraftusa forum today. Spent some time poking around, Its giving me lots of Ideas for this category already. I may have to link some of the things there if that's ok with the Mods.great forum over there. Nothing like hw
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 17, 2015, 07:57:46 AM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on November 17, 2015, 09:05:25 AM
Post by: runamuk on November 17, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
Another useful sub-category, local edible plants/foods in the NW.
This is a category that I am always shocked at how many people have no idea whats edible out there. We were taught from a very young age which plants we could eat and not eat, which berries and mushrooms were safe, and how to forage. We weren't a hunting family.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 17, 2015, 12:12:12 PM
Another useful sub-category, local edible plants/foods in the NW.
I would think that would be part of Bush Craft and Survival
Post by: WoodlandShooter on November 17, 2015, 01:27:15 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 18, 2015, 09:15:19 AM
Post by: Wazukie on November 18, 2015, 09:22:01 AM
Post by: jdb on November 18, 2015, 06:30:02 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 18, 2015, 06:32:32 PM
What's everyone's bush crafting knife?
Slef-made "scandi"
Post by: KFhunter on November 18, 2015, 06:42:43 PM
Post by: jdb on November 18, 2015, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 19, 2015, 05:58:06 AM
What's everyone's bush crafting knife?
Slef-made "scandi"
Wazukie made mine, too. The smaller one I use. The larger one went to my brother for his 60th. :tup:
Post by: JJB11B on November 19, 2015, 04:32:39 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 19, 2015, 04:39:42 PM
Tomorrow I have to go shop around for some candidate material to play with stock removal knife making....need to rig up something to use as a forge. I know the owners of a large scrapping company and some of their employees, Ill see if I can get one of them to rough me out the start of an anvil out of some RR track
A weed burner and 4 fire bricks works well for a simple forge. Leaf springs can make a good knife. I use 1084 and 1095 high carbon steel for all my knives.
Post by: JJB11B on November 19, 2015, 04:56:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2015, 07:47:52 PM
Have to be careful I don't get the branding iron too hot
Post by: jasnt on November 19, 2015, 08:07:23 PM
just occurred to me I already have a forge, it's a branding iron blower and it'll flat heat a chunk of metal white hot.that would do nicely I'd bet. Something I've always wanted to learn is forging blades. I'd love to make my own knives and axes
Have to be careful I don't get the branding iron too hot
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2015, 06:16:25 PM
http://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/
Post by: jasnt on November 20, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
Quick review of forging an ax
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2015, 04:21:40 PM
The steam hammer design was phenominal
Post by: jasnt on November 21, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
I ended up watching a dozen youtube vids on power hammers, wowlol I did the same. Also a bunch of forging videos. I got plenty of leaf springs
The steam hammer design was phenominal
Post by: JJB11B on November 22, 2015, 08:52:58 AM
Post by: kellama2001 on December 04, 2015, 09:44:21 AM
http://backwoodsmercantile.com (http://backwoodsmercantile.com)
Post by: JJB11B on December 08, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
Post by: jasnt on December 08, 2015, 10:17:13 PM
Anyone got a line on a good anvil that isn't $1,800?! :yike: I looked online at new ones last night I about messed my drawers!could build one.
http://makezine.com/2015/03/13/make-anvil-old-railroad-track/
I seen a few for couple hundred
Post by: denali on December 08, 2015, 11:16:46 PM
Anyone got a line on a good anvil that isn't $1,800?! :yike: I looked online at new ones last night I about messed my drawers!
here is a manufacture out of Spokane, competitively priced I believe.
http://www.incandescent-iron.com/rhan.html
Post by: fast60eddie on December 08, 2015, 11:33:35 PM
with the weed burner and bricks how long toes it take to heat something like a rail road spoke? And cad you get it up to 1900 - 2000 degrees.Tomorrow I have to go shop around for some candidate material to play with stock removal knife making....need to rig up something to use as a forge. I know the owners of a large scrapping company and some of their employees, Ill see if I can get one of them to rough me out the start of an anvil out of some RR track
A weed burner and 4 fire bricks works well for a simple forge. Leaf springs can make a good knife. I use 1084 and 1095 high carbon steel for all my knives.
Post by: JJB11B on December 09, 2015, 02:21:31 PM
I haven't heard much good about cast anvils. Everything I have read has said to stick with the old school forged anvilsAnyone got a line on a good anvil that isn't $1,800?! :yike: I looked online at new ones last night I about messed my drawers!
here is a manufacture out of Spokane, competitively priced I believe.
http://www.incandescent-iron.com/rhan.html
Post by: ArcherTL on December 14, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
Post by: jasnt on December 14, 2015, 04:52:50 PM
You cam make a decent anvil out of a piece of railroad rail. It won't be very wide but it is a lot better than a cast one.i think that's the route I'm going to go
Post by: kellama2001 on October 27, 2016, 09:03:30 PM
http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/wilderness-survival-training.html (http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/wilderness-survival-training.html)
Post by: JJB11B on October 30, 2016, 05:06:17 PM
Post by: Stone on November 30, 2016, 05:05:31 PM
Please forgive me, but I'm wanting to revive this old, but awesome thread. This time of year, after my main hunting is done for the season, I always feel the need to stay out in the wild as long as possible...to stay connected to nature. I've been looking for a wilderness survival course to take and came upon this website. It appears to have great information and also lists courses available by state. There are several in Washington, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these courses or has any other suggestions. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!
http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/wilderness-survival-training.html (http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/wilderness-survival-training.html)
Hey Kellama,
So far I've only done one course and that was with a group of friends down in Flagstaff, AZ. The primary instructor was Tony Nester, the owner of http://www.apathways.com/index.html, and I couldn't recommend him enough.
We hit quite a bit of different things to include 24-72 hour wilderness survival, modern fire making, primitive fire making, small game trapping, shelter building, tracking, fireside cooking, foraging (taught by Mike Masek a professor at Arizona University and owner of http://www.theforagerspath.com/), land nav, etc. Obviously, the terrain there is quite different but much of what was learned can still be carried over to here.
Tony also recommended a course up in this area but I cant seem to recall which one it was.
Post by: kellama2001 on November 30, 2016, 05:44:20 PM
Post by: Stone on December 01, 2016, 04:28:40 PM
Oh awesome, thanks! I'll check out the links, AZ this time of year doesn't sound so bad actually :chuckle:
Not so sure how Id feel about flagstaffs weather atm lol... https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Flagstaff+AZ+USAZ0068:1:US
Also, managed to get ahold of Tony. Heres the guys he recommends up here.
http://bushcraftnorthwest.com/
Does look like they've moved locations though so they arent currently hosting classes.
Post by: kellama2001 on December 02, 2016, 09:51:31 AM
And crazy weather in AZ! I just assumed that it'd be 75 and sunny right now lol :chuckle:
Post by: Squidward on December 02, 2016, 09:56:53 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 02, 2016, 01:04:24 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 17, 2017, 08:29:14 AM
Post by: Squidward on February 17, 2017, 10:45:31 AM
Post by: M_ray on February 17, 2017, 11:24:44 AM
Post by: TommyH on February 17, 2017, 12:19:45 PM
Post by: Squidward on February 17, 2017, 12:49:47 PM
Post by: garrett89 on February 17, 2017, 04:00:39 PM
Post by: jasnt on March 11, 2017, 08:29:43 AM
Has anyone here ever tried Hawthorne for ax and hammer handles?
Post by: M_ray on March 11, 2017, 12:32:54 PM
Post by: Special T on March 16, 2017, 08:34:07 PM
Post by: Stickerbush on March 18, 2017, 12:15:55 PM
Post by: HawkCreek on March 19, 2017, 12:02:41 PM
So I've seen some "Bushcraft" knifes, what makes them different from regular knives? Kinda seems like the blade angle is different and maybe the metal is harder for doing more chopping or woodcarving?
Honestly it's more marketing than anything else. Some guys use nothing more than a Mora and do just fine. Often a "bushcraft" knife is thicker, as in 3/16" - 1/4" as it aids in splitting when batoning. Depends on your preference for a grind also, scandi grinds usually are on thinner stock blades, convex or it's variations is usually (but not always) on the thicker knives. Metals and metallurgy are argued about in the bushcraft circles just like they are anywhere else. Some like stainless others do not, some like super steals while others swear by more common types.
Post by: scottcrb on March 19, 2017, 12:38:14 PM